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Fuelslt1 posted:I do if I'm treated poorly.  amazing
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Sep 1, 2016 02:00
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West SAAB Story posted:It's a fairly common ploy. A BMW dealership in Elk Grove tried to pull the same crap on me. 20 minutes later, I left with my car. I would have walked- but it was a rather rare vehicle, and I wanted it. Yeah, it's in the category of shady as gently caress but legal that most dealers operate in. The thing that might tick me off even more than the total lack of self awareness, is the fact that these lovely tactics work on enough people to make it a viable business model. If my sales team hosed a customer over in the vein of the $40k Altima, even if the customer did a lot of it to themselves, we'd be over the barrel in terms of trying to keep their business. In car "sales" it seems like the turnover is so high that a lot of dealers and salesmen don't care how bad the experience is as long as they get the lovely sale now. Even though internet reviews of any given dealership should sink them, they don't - because so much of the market is the same level of poo poo. Also, hi Viggen!
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Sep 1, 2016 04:30
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Edit
Fuelslt1 fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 1, 2016 04:52
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Out of my lasy 3 trips to a dealership, only one ended with me leaving mostly satisfied (when I flat traded my truck for the mazda. Still required an hour of haggling over $100). The other two ended with screaming matches in the parking lot. Good times, gently caress our current dealership system forever. I'd rather pay a set msrp on every vehicle from now until the end of time than deal with some lovely negotiation where the salesman can be shown to be a fuckstick with a calculator and 5 seconds of time.
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Sep 1, 2016 05:15
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Fuelslt1 posted:I had to go to work. I'll look at it tomorrow. Wait...I thought your work was "internet sales manager of the year don't cross me bro or I will gently caress you over" so you can't run a goddamn vin? As I have repeated many times gently caress YOU BITCH
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Sep 1, 2016 05:29
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Take it easy man
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Sep 1, 2016 05:35
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slidebite posted:Take it easy man Nah this is hilarious
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Sep 1, 2016 05:39
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slidebite posted:Take it easy man Re-read where he will gladly gently caress any customer over if they annoy him and then also how anything he asks for I have provided but he is a weak rear end bitch.
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Sep 1, 2016 05:42
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IOwnCalculus posted:Also, hi Viggen! 'sup? I see Ken has a bright red title now, and Travis has a nice custom title, too. Doesn't seem like a lot else has changed, other than my current lack of plat. 
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Sep 1, 2016 06:58
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There is no actual reason for the dealership model besides status quo hence the weirdo-trolling responses. Everyone knows they are dumb, it's ok they'll die eventually.
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Sep 1, 2016 06:59
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KakerMix posted:There is no actual reason for the dealership model besides status quo hence the weirdo-trolling responses. Everyone knows they are dumb, it's ok they'll die eventually. Except nobody can come up with a viable alternative. Dealerships in some vein or another are around to stay until the nature of the product changes radically. Until cars become automated travel pods or some kind of one time use pick up drop off think like a boris bike or something, you will have to deal with a salesperson, sorry
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Sep 1, 2016 07:23
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fridge corn posted:Except nobody can come up with a viable alternative. Yeah, configuring a car online, adding accessories, clicking "order" on the final price, paying a deposit with your credit card. Utopic. Then watching the order status update as the car is built and shipped. Then finally visiting an OEM service center - in Shangri-La I suppose! - for delivery. Pie in the sky!
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Sep 1, 2016 07:41
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Ola posted:Yeah, configuring a car online, adding accessories, clicking "order" on the final price, paying a deposit with your credit card. Utopic. Then watching the order status update as the car is built and shipped. Then finally visiting an OEM service center - in Shangri-La I suppose! - for delivery. Pie in the sky! But where are you going to test drive this car? Sit in it? See how different colours look irl? What about competitive pricing? The new car market is too volatile to leave pricing up to some nationwide service, when locally other dealers could run rings around. People arent going to buy cars sight unseen and wherever you go to look at them there will be someone trying to sell you something You clearly haven't thought this through
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Sep 1, 2016 07:50
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Goons want to buy cars sight unseen off the internet so they can avoid any human contact, its like ordering groceries online
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Sep 1, 2016 08:01
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fridge corn posted:People arent going to buy cars sight unseen and wherever you go to look at them there will be someone trying to sell you something Hello... Uber? People are literally getting into cars with not only strangers, but murderers. Millenials don't seem to give a poo poo about cars, and would be quite happy ordering a driving appliance with minimal effort if they can't find someone to drive for them. Extra points for the car may be obtained if there is a safe space button which will deploy the airbags and cushion tightly while the speakers simulate the noise of a heartbeat, while the system intelligently counters outside noises. Bogan Krkic posted:Goons want to buy cars sight unseen off the internet so they can avoid any human contact, its like ordering groceries online WebVan had the best quality meats at comparable-to-Safeway pricing. I still miss that.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:02
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An uber costs a few dollars, not tens of thousands. You can afford to risk the car you get to take you across town being a bit poo poo because it's not much money and you'll likely get a different car to take you back.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:06
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Bogan Krkic posted:An uber costs a few dollars, not tens of thousands. You can afford to risk the car you get to take you across town being a bit poo poo because it's not much money and you'll likely get a different car to take you back. I was not actually attempting to compare a simple cabbie transaction to a purchase for the sake of the differences of cost of ownership, et al. I was doing so just to illustrate that this concept of ownership is something that much of the current target demographic doesn't seem to care as much about (and a throwaway joke inferring their weakness with unhappy real life situations).
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Sep 1, 2016 08:14
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People have been catching taxis since forever, my man. That hasn't stopped people from wanting to own cars before.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:18
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Bogan Krkic posted:People have been catching taxis since forever, my man. That hasn't stopped people from wanting to own cars before. Nooo, but the idea that people may not want to is fairly recent for becoming an accepted ideal (unless they live in a larger city).
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Sep 1, 2016 08:21
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Also millennials might not seem to care about car ownership now but when they start settling down and having families perhaps they'll change tack
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Sep 1, 2016 08:23
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Not wanting to own a car is very different again from buying a car sight unseen off the internet.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:23
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Ola posted:Yeah, configuring a car online, adding accessories, clicking "order" on the final price, paying a deposit with your credit card. Utopic. Then watching the order status update as the car is built and shipped. Then finally visiting an OEM service center - in Shangri-La I suppose! - for delivery. Pie in the sky! Yup. Or the manufacturer, or a group company, runs physical sales locations and sells the cars itself for an advertised price. I don't know about the US, but Tesla in the UK has managed to have actual shops (sometimes literally in a mall) with cars and people in them employed by Tesla who can tell you about the car. The franchise model exists primarily because of its value to the manufacturers. Any professionally prepared franchise agreement these days will be designed to offload 100% of the risk and all or a large part of the capital requirements onto a franchisee while retaining 100% of the associated goodwill. You also charge the franchisee as much as you can get away (cost of stock, franchisee fees, training and documentation costs, marketing material, regional or national franchisor marketing contributions, franchise renewal fees, audit and inspection fees, etc etc etc) in order to be able to minutely control the franchise's profitability and thus the franchisee's freedom of action, which keeps it dependent on the franchisor. So the franchisor gets the benefits of an employee or perhaps a tied agent (control) while paying a lot less and offloading a large proportion of the risk onto the franchisee. As I understand it, the car industry's franchise model gives the franchisee a little bit more freedom of action and, potentially, profit. Hence the lousy treatment of customers. Franchised dealerships aren't a necessity for the customer, they're useful for the manufacturers and, if they rape the customer hard enough, the franchisee. This also explains why no franchisee wants to give an out the door price and the byzantine 20 step process that the customer has to negotiate to avoid getting super-hosed. fridge corn posted:But where are you going to test drive this car? Sit in it? See how different colours look irl? What about competitive pricing? The new car market is too volatile to leave pricing up to some nationwide service, when locally other dealers could run rings around. People arent going to buy cars sight unseen and wherever you go to look at them there will be someone trying to sell you something "Locally other dealers" can't run rings around the person who manufacturers the car and thus has the only 2017 Ford Fuckup Ghias available. They can of course buy used 2016 Ford Fuckups and resell them. The new car market is only volatile because of the way it has been organised by manufacturers. As far as competitive pricing, if you don't like the price of the Fuckup, you can buy a nearly-new Fuckup or a new VW Unterschteer instead. If you want to see and drive the car, you can go to the manufacturer. So for example if I want a Tesla, I go here - https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:30
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Bogan Krkic posted:Not wanting to own a car is very different again from buying a car sight unseen off the internet. fridge corn posted:Also millennials might not seem to care about car ownership now but when they start settling down and having families perhaps they'll change tack See the above point, which is what I was inferring how this new market is changing. This is the group of folks that I would most likely consider to buy a driving appliance and not giving a toss about blindly ordering it in a tab which has less time spent than their facebook selfies.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:31
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See the current model isn't going anywhere because what you said, it's massively beneficial to both the manufacturers and the dealers. Customers put up with it because... it's not a big deal?? The only evidence of people being hosed over is anecdotal goon experiences which is hardly indicative of the greater population. How many new cars are sold everyday? There doesn't seem to be much of a hindrance to sales in the system
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Sep 1, 2016 08:40
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I'm certain that if a millennial was going to spend ~25k on any purchase, they'd want to at least be able to see it in person, compare other available products, and be able to test these products, rather than clicking 'buy car' blindly on their new-fangled iPhones. It might be an appliance, but people still loving do their research on appliances and go to a store to look at them in person, and whitegoods are an order of magnitude cheaper.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:41
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Bogan Krkic posted:I'm certain that if a millennial was going to spend ~25k on any purchase, they'd want to at least be able to see it in person, compare other available products, and be able to test these products, rather than clicking 'buy car' blindly on their new-fangled iPhones. I wish I shared your view, but we're talking about a generation where many may prefer a personal hugbox (formerly known as timeout- only now with toys) to handling a dissenting opinion. I believe they'd attempt to put a little time into it (and many would), but that they'd give buying a car less consideration than how their frosted tips look on social media.
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Sep 1, 2016 08:46
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West SAAB Story posted:I wish I shared your view, but we're talking about a generation where many may prefer a personal hugbox (formerly known as timeout- only now with toys) to handling a dissenting opinion. I believe they'd attempt to put a little time into it (and many would), but that they'd give buying a car less consideration than how their frosted tips look on social media. Aren't you and corn both millenials? I am, and I think most goons are. It's not "us and them," it's just "us," mostly.
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Sep 1, 2016 09:02
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Raluek posted:Aren't you and corn both millenials? I am, and I think most goons are. It's not "us and them," it's just "us," mostly. I don't think i implied i wasn't one
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Sep 1, 2016 09:49
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West SAAB Story posted:I wish I shared your view, but we're talking about a generation where many may prefer a personal hugbox (formerly known as timeout- only now with toys) to handling a dissenting opinion. I believe they'd attempt to put a little time into it (and many would), but that they'd give buying a car less consideration than how their frosted tips look on social media. Have you ever even met a millennial irl, old man These dang kids, theyre all soft idiots with their computers and pokemon and apps
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Sep 1, 2016 10:01
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As a millenial myself, albeit on the older end of the scale (born 1985), I have to admit that a lot of millenials/gen Y-ers are just kinda, I dunno... Messed up? Especially the younger ones. I think this is partially caused by being screwed over by the generations before them, and partially by their parents' tendency to overprotect and micromanage their lives. If you've never faced adversity and have always had your parents clear a path for you, of course you're going to be messed up. And of course part of it also comes from being able to communicate freely and directly with others who feel similarly wronged by adversity, without any filters. The internet can be one hell of an echo chamber. I'm not laying the blame squarely on any one cause, it's a mixture of bad influences. And of course the "vocal minority" effect, where the really hosed up "safe spaces everywhere don't disagree with me ever because that hurts my feelings" ones are the ones who shout the loudest and get all the media attention. Most of us are quite reasonable and normal people. We're just really easy to ignore compared to the shitstorms and social media bullshit that the extremely vocal minority stirs up. So we get tarred with the same brush.
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Sep 1, 2016 10:33
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fridge corn posted:I don't think i implied i wasn't one You didn't seem to be including yourself in the "they" you were referring to, but yeah I guess it's mostly viggen doing that.
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Sep 1, 2016 11:02
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fridge corn posted:How many new cars are sold everyday? There doesn't seem to be much of a hindrance to sales in the system This is a stupid point. Of course lots of new cars are sold at dealers everyday, almost everybody in America needs a car and the only way you can buy a new car is at a dealer. People put up with car dealers acting like assholes to customers because they don't have any other choice when buying a new car. If people could buy a new car off of Amazon, they would do it.
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Sep 1, 2016 11:03
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Raluek posted:You didn't seem to be including yourself in the "they" you were referring to, but yeah I guess it's mostly viggen doing that. Yeah I was merely using the term in the context it was provided to me
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Sep 1, 2016 11:08
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silence_kit posted:If people could buy a new car off of Amazon, they would do it. People keep saying this because it's the only argument you seem to have as alternative to the dealer system and its highly dubious because there's absolutely nothing to suggest it's true
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Sep 1, 2016 11:10
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Raluek posted:Aren't you and corn both millenials? I am, and I think most goons are. It's not "us and them," it's just "us," mostly. Nope. I'm an old. Bogan Krkic posted:Have you ever even met a millennial irl, old man Yes, and he didn't know how to tie his own shoes- but it's OK, because his parents did.
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Sep 1, 2016 11:21
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fridge corn posted:People keep saying this because it's the only argument you seem to have as alternative to the dealer system and its highly dubious because there's absolutely nothing to suggest it's true Why don't people in America overwhelmingly buy other non-car consumer goods through commissioned middleman salesmen, then? They obviously prefer not to do it for almost every other consumer good when given an alternative. I'm shocked that you are struggling with this.
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Sep 1, 2016 11:33
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silence_kit posted:Why don't people in America overwhelmingly buy other non-car consumer goods through commissioned middleman salesmen, then? They obviously prefer not to do it for almost every other consumer good when given an alternative. I'm shocked that you are struggling with this. Im getting really tired of trying to explain this but yes conceivably you could by something like a washing machine or a refrigerator online. It performs a singular purpose and variations between makes and models are not terribly significant and most importantly your daily interaction with it is fairly minimal. Would you however, purchase a sofa or a matress without first sitting/laying on it???
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Sep 1, 2016 12:09
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fridge corn posted:Im getting really tired of trying to explain this but yes conceivably you could by something like a washing machine or a refrigerator online. It performs a singular purpose and variations between makes and models are not terribly significant and most importantly your daily interaction with it is fairly minimal. Would you however, purchase a sofa or a matress without first sitting/laying on it??? No, but that is what showrooms are for. You can have "dealers" and showrooms to show off the cars and offer test drives, but you don't need the bullshit pressure tactics and salespeople on commission. Just let people look at the cars, maybe test drive one or two, and then buy at a clearly advertised retail price. You know, like with every other consumer good? Haven't you ever been to an Ikea store?
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Sep 1, 2016 12:20
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KozmoNaut posted:No, but that is what showrooms are for. I'm laffing big time at the suggestion that couch and mattress salespeople don't also work on commission and upsell / pressure customers into sales / extended warranties etc
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Sep 1, 2016 12:39
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KozmoNaut posted:No, but that is what showrooms are for. Ikea also havee upsells and subtle ways to make you buy more poo poo than you were expecting. They also do have commission sales people annd bullshit practices. They design the store so you walk out with a bunch of poo poo you never thought of and Swedish Meatballs. The store design is classic bullshit sales tactics. This thread's gone mad - Corn Fridge is making good points. Dealers aint going nowhere yet.
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Sep 1, 2016 12:41
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