The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Here's an interesting parallel to American social media. Remember the photo supposedly of Ambassador Stevens' body being dragged through the streets of Benghazi that turned out to be completely fake and was actually from Argentina?

The Duterte administration is also engaging in such antics.

quote:

MANILA, Philippines � If you are on Facebook, chances are you've seen the above photo on your feed.

Among those who posted it is Peter Tiu Lavi�a, campaign spokesman of President Rodrigo Duterte, to question human rights critics of the President.

Supporters of the administration have also spread the photo online, with other netizens sharing it as well. It turns out, however, that the photo was not even taken in the Philippines.

In an August 27 post, Lavi�a denounced human rights, bishops, and "presstitutes" or media outfits critical of the Duterte administration for their supposed silence on the rape and murder of the 9-year-old girl pictured above

"Truly revolting � Nine-year-old raped and murdered and we haven't heard condemning this brutal act from human rightists, bishops and 'presstitutes' who are derailing the government's war against drugs and crime. Among others, they are more concerned with the human rights of criminals and worried about our country's so-called 'image' abroad," Lavi�a said.

He added: "They clearly exhibit elitist mindsets in trying to keep up with the Joneses to be good in appearances but rotten to the core. Ngek! Our righteous battles against drugs and crime are fierce and relentless because we face the Devil himself. We cannot be soft or let our guards down lest we ourselves will be devoured and be defeated!"

Former senatorial bet Rafael Alunan III, another Duterte ally, posted an article about Lavi�a's remarks and hit critics for their "selective reasoning, cognitive dissonance at work."

But on Monday, August 29, a journalist debunked the viral photo, after finding out that the killing did not happen in the Philippines. The rape and murder of the child actually occurred in the municipality of Altamira in Brazil in December 2014. The victim's name was Evelin Nicole da Silva Sousa.

A quick check online would confirm the victim's identity and the crime through legitimate news websites in Brazil.

Critics have slammed the use of the photo, saying it is misleading and Lavi�a should apologize for "misrepresentation."

Rappler tried to reach Palace Communications Secretary Martin Andanar for comment. He has yet to respond as of posting.

This is not the first time fake items and news headlines have spread online, purportedly favoring the President.

Now, keep in mind that this is not some rando admin of Extremely Pissed Off Right-Wingers 2. Peter Tiu Lavina was the President's campaign spokesman during the election period.

And he's posting stuff like this: [Direct link to the actual Facebook post]

quote:

To win the war against drugs, we need to be resolute like #PresidentDuterte. There should be no neutrals in this righteous crusade against evil. Let those fence-sitting nitpicking Humpty Dumpties realize that they are derailing our total victory against this menace. They are clearly on the side of if not protecting the drug lords.

So it's not just like if Trump had won - it'd be like if you handed over the White House staff to the likes of Rob Morrow and Jerry Falwell.

And To elaborate on this not being the first time that this has happened, another marked incident occurred back in mid-April this year, wherein this image of Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong supposedly endorsing Rodrigo Duterte made rounds on Philippine social media:

It gained enough notoriety that the Singaporean Embassy in Manila had to issue a press release confirming that the image and the statement was fake

# ? Aug 29, 2016 16:25

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 06:25

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

My favorite fake thing that Duterte supporters are spreading on Facebook would have to be this one. Obviously a satire but just look at the comments (on the Facebook shares) and it's clear some people actually think this is real. The fact that there exists anyone who doesn't realize it's a satire is a testament to how delusional some of them are.

Edit: lmao this one is even better; the comments there are Duterte supporters congratulating him (and ironically, one Duterte supporter asking the page not to spread false info): https://www.facebook.com/PresidentRudyDuterte/photos/a.796402073728786.1073741828.747714771930850/1082278831807774/?type=3&theater

Argue fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Aug 31, 2016

# ? Aug 29, 2016 16:58

Donkwich: Feb 28, 2011; Grimey Drawer

How important is social media in the Philippines political landscape now? I've read that the Philippines is the biggest social media user per capita of any country, and I imagine social media's mob mentality tendencies will only further solidify Duterte's personality cult.

I hate that Duterte's human rights abuses are the thing that's going to put the Philippines on the map (from the World/West's perspective). The Philippines is still mostly unknown to the world, and their first introduction will be bodies in the streets and a crazed wannabe dictator.

I'm genuinely afraid at what's in store in the Philippines' future. I have relatives over there, and I'm scared for their lives if the Philippines descends into violent unrest or civil war.

# ? Aug 31, 2016 10:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Yesterday, the Presidential Communications FB page made this post (now deleted):

Problem is, it's completely made up

The 2012 UN World Drug Report, linked here as a PDF, contains no such metric, and especially since the report only covers regional groupings, of which the Philippines is under "East and South-East Asia" which is shares along with Brunei, Cambodia, China, the DPRK, Indonesia, Japan, Laos, Malaysia, Mongolia, Myanmar, the ROK, Singapore, Thailand, Timor-Leste and Vietnam.

===

Christine Amanpour did recently conduct interviews with both Senator Alan Peter Cayetano, who was President Duterte's running mate and now a staunch administration supporter in the Senate: Facebook video link

And then also Senator Leila De Lima, former head of the Department of Justice, now chairperson of the Senate Judicial Committee that called for hearings regarding extra-judicial killings

https://twitter.com/camanpour/status/770688547699294208

===

Here's a local editorial that tackles the current vibe of Philippine social media when it comes to political discussions

quote:

Here�s a classic appeal to emotion post by eugene_dlc1973 addressed to Gamboa: �Where do you currently reside? Have you ever tried walking alone in one dark alley of a slum area? Or have you even tried walking in the Malate area with your wife and a small child in the middle of the night? If you say yes (to) those questions, do you feel safe or (do) you keep looking over your shoulder while walking? Have you ever bumped into some kids (three to be exact), 15 years old or so, with knife and steel pipe (in) their hands, trying to decide if they just need to stab you or hit you with the pipe or both? Very courageous kids because they (were) so high at the time � Maybe you don�t worry about (these) things, because you are caged (in) a well-secured posh subdivision and travel in your luxury car and only visit high-end malls and restaurants, or maybe you are not even residing in Philippines ��

Instead of directly arguing against the legal, moral and practical points raised by Gamboa, readers like eugen_dlc1973 try to appeal to fear and guilt to assert their stand.

Similarly, supporters of extrajudicial killings often post on social media their now ubiquitous question: �Where is the Commission on Human Rights (CHR) when innocent civilians are murdered, raped and robbed by drug addicts?� There is a straightforward answer to that question�that is, the CHR�s constitutional mandate is not fighting crime but fighting human rights abuses involving civil and political rights, so they have nothing to do with daily crimes and police work. It is like asking where the nurses and doctors are (not the fire department) to put out a raging fire. But the emotion-laden rhetorical question suits those who would rather not see the CHR meddle in the government�s war on drugs.

quote:

Perhaps even more alarming is that up to 42 percent of the comments can be categorized as ad hominems. A reasoning contains this logical fallacy, according to the IEP, �if you make an irrelevant attack on the arguer and suggest that this attack undermines the argument itself.� For example, Magnetic Levitation writes, �Inquirer is a tabloid with tabloidic-minded authors. Be a real writer for once.�

And when an exchange turns personal, it often quickly gets out of control, with each party resorting to insults and name-calling. Instead of exchanging viewpoints and learning something new, the discourse degenerates into a childish, mean-spirited game of one-upmanship. Do_SJC, for instance, calls another reader a �Dutertard,� which is predictably followed by an exchange of �Sabog,� �Idiot,� and �Shonga.�

The rest of the comments (24 percent) are simple statements with no arguments to add. They are unqualified statements of support, a simple LOL, or totally unrelated to the topic.

It should be noted that this particular comments section does not include actual threats of bodily harm either to the author or other readers. It is not uncommon for readers hiding behind anonymous handles to become belligerent enough to issue dire, thuggish threats.

===

And finally, President Duterte is set to meet with both Obama and Putin

quote:

Washington (Reuters) � U.S. President Barack Obama is expected to meet with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte on Sept. 6, and plans to touch on human rights as well as security concerns, the White House said on Monday.

"We absolutely expect that the president will raise concerns about some of the recent statements from the president of the Philippines," White House Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes told a media briefing when asked whether inflammatory remarks by Duterte about women, journalists, and others would be a topic of discussion.

quote:

MANILA, Philippines � Of all President Rodrigo Duterte�s upcoming bilateral meetings with world leaders in Laos, his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin is the one he looks forward to the most.

�That I look forward to. [I like Putin more],� said Duterte on Wednesday, August 31, on the sidelines of his event with overseas Filipino workers (OFWs) at the Ninoy Aquino International Airport Terminal 2.

Asked why he was excited to meet the Russian leader, Duterte said, �[We're the same]�

At first, he was coy about revealing why he thought Putin and he shared certain traits.

But as he pulled away from reporters, Duterte, with a mischievous grin, said, "[Maybe when it comes to girls]."

# ? Aug 31, 2016 10:10

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

A statistic today puts the total deaths at 2000+. I thought it was still in the three digits. :stare:

# ? Sep 1, 2016 06:31

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

SynthOrange posted:

A statistic today puts the total deaths at 2000+. I thought it was still in the three digits.

Where'd you see it? The numbers can vary depending on how these deaths are being classified. Indeed, that argument over what death should be counted under which statistic is a point of contention going into the Senate inquiry into extrajudicial killings.

# ? Sep 1, 2016 06:55

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

gradenko_2000 posted:

Where'd you see it? The numbers can vary depending on how these deaths are being classified. Indeed, that argument over what death should be counted under which statistic is a point of contention going into the Senate inquiry into extrajudicial killings.

That figure I think includes the killings not done directly by the police (but done by vigilantes who are encouraged by the government and sometimes directly supported by the police).

# ? Sep 1, 2016 07:01

Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

http://www.theage.com.au/world/phil...901-gr6an0.html is where I got it from

# ? Sep 1, 2016 07:10

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Philippine National Police (PNP) chief Director General Ronald dela Rosa is set to visit Colombia �within the next month� to see for himself how they �won the war on drugs.�

quote:

Dela Rosa, who has been chief of the PNP for two months now, is among the key officials in President Rodrigo Duterte�s so-called �war on drugs.�

�[I�m going to visit] Colombia. [We have plans to visit next month],� Dela Rosa told Rappler in a chance interview on Thursday, September 1

When asked why he was going to visit, Dela Rosa said: �to observe [how they won, what they did to win the war on drugs].�

Critics have cited the experience in other countries such as Colombia, Mexico and Thailand in battling drugs to hit the Duterte administration.

�[Let�s see. But why is Colombia clean now? How come Thailand is now clean?]� said Dela Rosa, when asked about how critics mention other countries� experiences in battling illegal drugs.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 06:34

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Maybe by "they" he was referring to drugs?

But anyway, there's plenty of other stuff going on!

The government is seeking to have mandatory drug testing for college admissions because obstructing the education of drug users is the best possible solution to students doing drugs.

quote:

The government seeks to make drug testing a requirement for all incoming college students, said Julito Vitriolo, the executive director of the Commission on Higher Education.
"This was born out of the president's call to make campuses drug-free, because we see the pervasive effects of drug use," he said in a television interview.
"What's important is for students not to use drugs. It will be a deterrent if they want to continue their studies," Vitriolo said, adding that those testing positive could go through rehabilitation before being admitted to college.

Senator Cayetano, creator of the infamous murders graph, says that the hearings on extrajudicial killings are making the Philippines look bad.

quote:

Cayetano explained this would not do the country any good in the face of the President's first overseas trip next week where he would be meeting with world leaders like U.S. President Barrack Obama.

He said it wouldn't look good if while Duterte was meeting with heads of state, and yet at home, he was being blamed for the killings.

Cayetano also hinted at the idea of De Lima dropping her chairmanship in the Justice committee, which was holding probes on EJK in relation to the anti-drug campaign. He said there was conflict of interest since the lady senator was also being linked to illegal drugs.

This "link", I remind everyone, is mainly a diagram Duterte presented that has about as much weight as a corkboard with yarn connecting news articles together.

Here's a real Duterte supporter sharing an obvious fake news article (it's filed under satire in the actual link, although there's nothing in there that is actually humorous) as proof that Duterte is great.

And finally, maybe I don't understand marijuana but is this really the best way to dispose of all the weed they found?

Argue fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Sep 2, 2016

# ? Sep 2, 2016 07:11

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Argue posted:

Senator Cayetano, creator of the infamous murders graph, says that the hearings on extrajudicial killings are making the Philippines look bad.

And that's not even the stupidest thing Senator Cayetano has said recently!

Cayetano doubts BBC story on hired killer of drug dealers

quote:

Senator Alan Peter Cayetano, one of the staunchest allies of President Rodrigo Duterte, expressed doubts on an international news report about a woman allegedly hired by the police to kill drug pushers and users in the Philippines.

International news agency BBC shared the story of Maria, not her real name, who carries out contract killings as part of the government-sanctioned war on drugs.

Cayetano, however, is unconvinced. With more than a million people wanting the Duterte administration to fail, it is possible that the news item is fabricated, he claimed.

�Naturally. I mean there are one thousand and one, a million people, who would like that story to be true, or would offer a fake [story] to discredit the anti-drugs war, and the drug lords will do that,� Cayetano told reporters on Wednesday, August 31.

�[If that is really drug-related, why do you have to put a cardboard on the drug lord, right?] So you know, you have to think there�s an interplay of interests,� he added.

Cayetano said the reporter should be appointed to the National Bureau of Investigation for finding a rare assassin who would choose to reveal herself.

�[The one who got the report, he should be appointed head of the National Bureau of Investigation because he was so good to find a gun for hire, out of 100 million Filipinos, who would reveal herself and would even pinpoint the PNP.]� he said.

Thinking aloud, Cayetano said it is a mystery to him how a gun for hire would want to reveal herself to anyone.

�[I'm not ignoring these reports, as there should still be an investigation. But it is a mystery to me that, first of all, gunmen for hire don't easily admit their roles. So we have to be cautious that we are not used. I'm not saying it's not true, but he is really good. If it is true, he should head the investigation team.]� he said.

And the head of the Department of Justice also has blinders on:

[Justice Secretary] Aguirre: Bank account of ex-driver received millions from [Senator] De Lima

quote:

The bank account that allegedly received millions of pesos from Senator Leila de Lima when she was still Justice Secretary belonged to her former driver, Justice Secretary Vitaliano Aguirre III disclosed on Thursday, quoting a former employee of the senator.

Aguirre confirmed that an employee of the Department of Justice (DOJ), Jonathan �Jong� Caranto, had executed an affidavit against De Lima claiming that she had instructed him to deposit millions of pesos to the bank account of Ronnie Dayan.

Caranto was one of two employees who had allegedly executed affidavits against her. The other employee was named in some media reports as a certain Edna �Bogs� Obuyes.

Dayan, on the other hand, has been tagged by President Rodrigo Duterte as De Lima�s alleged bagman who had collected drug payoffs for her.

Asked how the account would be linked to De Lima when it was not under her name, Aguirre said, �(Our investigation has not ended yet so we will still see how it is linked, whether it could be linked to her or not.)

# ? Sep 2, 2016 07:24

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

Argue posted:

And finally, maybe I don't understand marijuana but is this really the best way to dispose of all the weed they found?

Yes it is, if I had to burn a ton of marijuana I would definitely do it like that.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 07:48

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Couldn't they like, bury it or something?

Also great posts OP, really appreciate your detailed summaries. All I know about Duterte are his controversial comments. Interesting that he's for gay marriage -- how does that fly in a country where I assume people are pretty deeply religious?

# ? Sep 2, 2016 12:51

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Vegetable posted:

Also great posts OP, really appreciate your detailed summaries. All I know about Duterte are his controversial comments. Interesting that he's for gay marriage -- how does that fly in a country where I assume people are pretty deeply religious?

The Philippines is, AFAIK, the only remaining country that still does not have divorce, so that should say something.

The campaign bullet points on Duterte's gender progressivism notwithstanding, same-sex marriages here are unlikely under a combination of the aforementioned conservatism of the Filipino culture, combined with the legislature being rather busy dealing with the President's War on Drugs, while also adopting Paul Ryan's economic plans when they get some free time to themselves.

quote:

Something I would not tax at all is inheritance of the family home. Not the 6 percent proposed, but zero. Why impose a heartless payment on a family suffering loss, and even putting at risk ownership of the house (many wouldn�t have the 6 percent and have to sell)? Home ownership is not by the husband or wife, or whoever else, but by the family. As long as the family retains the house, there should be no tax.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 13:09

Schubalts: Nov 26, 2007; People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Argue posted:

Vitriolo

OK, that name just screams Sith Lord.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 13:43

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Reset the clock, because the President just had another hot take.

Duterte: Drug war's death toll just like Clint Eastwood, Liam Neeson films

quote:

For President Rodrigo Duterte, the rising number of casualties in his administration's drug war is far from alarming.

The president made this point amid growing international criticism from the international community on the spate of killings that started when he took office on June 30.

Duterte noted that films have been justifying the killing of criminals long before he took over as president.

�It is always an eye for eye at the end of the day. Who taught us? The movie of � who is that? Clint Eastwood personified it that way and most of us saw the picture,� he said, noting how authorities could not simply let drug addicts kill innocent people.

�What is the difference between Liam Neeson killing a lot of Europeans and Americans because of what happened to his daughter? That is the same thing that is happening. That is why the scriptwriter knows what happens in the minds of human beings and they write it and they make it into movies and they showed us and gave us an example and we think the movie is good and we should follow it,� Duterte added, referring to Neeson�s blockbuster �Taken� series.

Duterte then further said those films should have been blocked from screening if they do not set good examples.

�I could be an average family man. Now how about the Clint Eastwoods in the police department? If it is bad, it should have been not shown at all because it would poison the mind of the world. But since it was good and it was only rated R for adults, everything is now shaped up by the culture in the world� so what goes in the minds of Americans,� he said.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 14:13

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

gradenko_2000 posted:

Reset the clock, because the President just had another hot take.

Duterte: Drug war's death toll just like Clint Eastwood, Liam Neeson films

Oh cool. Your president can't tell the difference between fiction & reality. That's reassuring.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 14:16

Bobbin Threadbare: Jan 2, 2009; I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

Dirty Harry actually was criticized for having fascist overtones. The sequel's plot was a response to that accusation and was about how proactive police death squads was a step too far even for Harry.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 14:21

toasterwarrior: Nov 11, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

Reset the clock, because the President just had another hot take.

Duterte: Drug war's death toll just like Clint Eastwood, Liam Neeson films

This is some real "makes u think huh" poo poo.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 14:55

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Well, consider Jack Bauer. Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles. He saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Are you going to convict Jack Bauer? Say that criminal law is against him? "You have the right to a jury trial?" Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don't think so. So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 14:59

Mozi: Apr 4, 2004; Forms change so fast
Time is moving past
Memory is smoke
Gonna get wider when I die; Nap Ghost

"Mr President, the drug addicts are revolting!"

"They certainly are!"

"What should I do?"

"Get me... Liam Neesons."

# ? Sep 2, 2016 15:03

ocrumsprug: Sep 23, 2010; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

It is weird how Duterte alternates narratives between;

1) There are infinite murderous drug pusher/users and it is total war we will annihilate them all.
2) How dare you accuse us of killing X numbers of people extra-judiciously?

Am I correct in assuming that these are inward and outward facing narratives he is building?

# ? Sep 2, 2016 16:14

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

News is only coming in just now but there was an explosion in Davao, which as you guys will recall is where Duterte was Mayor before his ascension. Nothing is known yet about whether or not this is political but I thought it might be worth mentioning just in case this develops into something. Plus you just know the pro-Duterte crowd isn't gonna shut up about this. https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines/status/771720932293390338

Argue fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Sep 2, 2016

# ? Sep 2, 2016 16:27

Dameius: Apr 3, 2006

With the talk about Taken and Dirty Harry, he makes me think that he is your Reagan with a heaping serving of Trump, which is truly horrifying to consider.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 16:54

CronoGamer: May 15, 2004; why did this happen

Argue posted:

News is only coming in just now but there was an explosion in Davao, which as you guys will recall is where Duterte was Mayor before his ascension. Nothing is known yet about whether or not this is political but I thought it might be worth mentioning just in case this develops into something. Plus you just know the pro-Duterte crowd isn't gonna shut up about this. https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines/status/771720932293390338

Not to jump to conclusions but this is probably gonna be an ASG retaliation to his crackdown in the Sulu archipelago, yeah?

# ? Sep 2, 2016 17:28

Nucleic Acids: Apr 10, 2007

gradenko_2000 posted:

The Philippines is, AFAIK, the only remaining country that still does not have divorce, so that should say something.

The campaign bullet points on Duterte's gender progressivism notwithstanding, same-sex marriages here are unlikely under a combination of the aforementioned conservatism of the Filipino culture, combined with the legislature being rather busy dealing with the President's War on Drugs, while also adopting Paul Ryan's economic plans when they get some free time to themselves.

The "Death Tax:" yet another wonderful American export.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 17:38

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

CronoGamer posted:

Not to jump to conclusions but this is probably gonna be an ASG retaliation to his crackdown in the Sulu archipelago, yeah?

Pray that that's all it is.

# ? Sep 2, 2016 18:33

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

In response to the explosion, Duterte has declared a "state of lawlessness" in Mindanao.

And then just now, the Palace revised the announcement to cover the whole country:
https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status/771903659894419456

I try not to be a panicmonger but seriously, I can't loving be the only one who thinks of this. Oh, but it's okay, say my pro-Duterte Facebook friends! It's okay because Duterte has explicitly said "no, this isn't martial law!" No, he's just saying "I may invite uniformed personnel to run the country according to my specifications," and �it�s not martial law but it would require nationwide, well-coordinated efforts of the military and the police.� So no cause for alarm, because it's not martial law

# ? Sep 3, 2016 04:28

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

What does a "state of lawlessness" entail? Is it any different from a state of emergency?

# ? Sep 3, 2016 04:31

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

I'm shocked that a state of lawlessness exists in a country whose president encouraged extra judicial killings.

# ? Sep 3, 2016 04:36

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

According to this, "what it simply means, he said, is that more soldiers and policemen will now be deployed, government will set up more checkpoints, and impose, if needed, curfews in certain areas."

quote:

�It is not the label of proclamation but the modalities of execution that characterizes the declaration,� said a judge who spoke on condition of anonymity.

But I have no clue what that means other than "uh I guess we have to wait and see."

quote:

Policemen in the mega capital were ordered to "set up checkpoints where deemed necessary and maximize security and presence in all vital installations, malls, churches, MRT and LRT stations, and all places of convergence," according to PNP Metro Manila chief Chief Superintendent Oscar Albayalde.

The last time this happened was 2003--it was also in response to bombings, but it didn't last long, and it was localized to Davao.

# ? Sep 3, 2016 04:36

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Badger of Basra posted:

What does a "state of lawlessness" entail? Is it any different from a state of emergency?

We have our version of the Vox explainer articles!

A "state of lawless violence" was previously declared by then-President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo back in 2003 when mosques in Davao were bombed. NYT article

The difference was that this only covered Davao City, whereas the declaration made by President Duterte today is nationwide.

What is supposedly being invoked is Article VII, Section 18 of the Philippines' 1987 Constitution, which states:

quote:

SECTION 18. The President shall be the Commander-in-Chief of all armed forces of the Philippines and whenever it becomes necessary, he may call out such armed forces to prevent or suppress lawless violence, invasion or rebellion. In case of invasion or rebellion, when the public safety requires it, he may, for a period not exceeding sixty days, suspend the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus or place the Philippines or any part thereof under martial law. Within forty-eight hours from the proclamation of martial law or the suspension of the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, the President shall submit a report in person or in writing to the Congress. The Congress, voting jointly, by a vote of at least a majority of all its Members in regular or special session, may revoke such proclamation or suspension, which revocation shall not be set aside by the President. Upon the initiative of the President, the Congress may, in the same manner, extend such proclamation or suspension for a period to be determined by the Congress, if the invasion or rebellion shall persist and public safety requires it.

I am not a lawyer, but the precedent established by President Macapagal-Arroyo is that you can declare a state of lawless violence, and therefore call upon the armed forces to prevent or suppress this violence, and that is different from a declaration of Martial Law.

That is, President Duterte specifically said he is not suspending the writ of habeas corpus, nor is he declaring Martial Law (not that he unilaterally could), nor is he making a request to Congress regarding the declaration of Martial Law. Further, that Martial Law is not and would not be appropriate in this situation since a declaration of ML requires an "invasion or rebellion", but if you only ever call it that first clause, of "lawless violence", then the need for ML does not exist.

And I'm saying all this from a "strict Constitutionalist" perspective, with maybe half my tongue in my cheek.

Talk is cheap, and like Argue I don't wish to make mountains out of molehills. The President did say that he is not declaring Martial Law, and that he is not suspending the writ of habeas corpus, which is good, but on the other hand, he has declared this state of emergency across the nation, and he has said the following:

quote:

Specifically, Duterte said he was allowing searches of motor vehicles at checkpoints.

"[You should stop at police checkpoints.] If you see a sign and there are soldiers flashing their lights, switch off your headlights, switch on the light inside your cars because I'm authorizing them to search," Duterte said.

"So if you do not have anything to hide, I am suggesting that you be liberal enough to understand us because we are trying to cope up with a crisis now," he added.

Duterte said the authorities received information warnings against an attack by the Abu Sayyaf Group, but could not frisk citizens at the risk of being branded "fascistic."

"They gave us the warning. Not only in Jolo, but in other places. We were forewarned, we were ready," Duterte said, noting that his top law enforcement and intelligence people were in Davao City for that reason.

"Unfortunately, we cannot frisk or order people to stop and search because that could be fascistic. Then that is not a democracy anymore. That is the price of being a democratic state," he added.

Duterte dispelled notions of his 'state of lawless violence' declaration repressing civil liberties.

"Any action at all taken by the security forces will be in furtherance to stop terrorism. And I am including drugs because there are so many killings unfairly attributed to the police," Duterte said.

"I have this duty to protect the country, keep intact the integrity of the nation," he added

The president also made it clear that citizen's movements would not be controlled, nor would there be random searches, as these would be "fascistic."

"Government is here with you, as much as humanly possible. We will protect everybody," assured Duterte.

He also called on citizens to be vigilant and cooperate with the security checkpoints.

# ? Sep 3, 2016 04:53

KingEup: Nov 18, 2004; I am a REAL ADDICT
(to threadshitting)

Please ask me for my google inspired wisdom on shit I know nothing about. Actually, you don't even have to ask.

I'd love to hear Duterte explain what the difference between a drug and a non-drug is because most prohibitionists are scientifically illiterate.

KingEup fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Sep 3, 2016

# ? Sep 3, 2016 05:11

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

Is the craziest poo poo I've read in ages.
People from the Philippines are spelt Filipinos and speak Tagalog but don't know their own language.
Their president thinks the guy who wrote Taken was giving him hot tips on how to run the country.
They post cautiously about not wanting to make mountains out of molehills as their blatantly insane president proudly sets up death squads. but he won't frisk people to stop a bomb and blames democracy and namedrops fascism.

Turns out the slide into fascism is actually even less subtle than in the star wars prequels.

I'd probably do the same if my prime minister went mad and started death squads, post about it and decide I can't do anything about it, so I'm not judging you all though.

# ? Sep 3, 2016 05:56

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

CNN Philippines is reporting that the "State of Lawless Violence" is in effect only in Mindanao, Sulu, Basilan and Tawi-Tawi, and that there was a miscommunication regarding it being implemented nationwide. However, the guy who said this also said that it was "declared not only because of Davao blast but also for crime, drug war".

Edit: the wording isn't clear; it could be me who's misunderstanding it. Another way to interpret it would be "we actually meant to say it was nationwide, and it was a miscommunication that it would only be in Mindanao". Source here: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines/status/771935844387131393

Argue fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Sep 3, 2016

# ? Sep 3, 2016 06:08

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

nopantsjack posted:

They post cautiously about not wanting to make mountains out of molehills as their blatantly insane president proudly sets up death squads. but he won't frisk people to stop a bomb and blames democracy and namedrops fascism.

I guess I'm sort of hedging my posting bets here because it's far too easy for me to go "see! this was all Duterte's plan! We're slipping right into being a police state!" Alex Jones-ish nuttery

And yeah, okay, maybe the literal imposition of Martial Law is actually becoming a police state in a way that Alex Jones' paranoid rants about Obama aren't, but still. There are a lot of people out there who are using this as cover to further rally behind the President, no matter what he does, and I have no wish to be tasteless or ghoulish.

https://twitter.com/moneyedCapital/status/771934588667060224

That sort of thing.

Argue posted:

CNN Philippines is reporting that the "State of Lawless Violence" is in effect only in Mindanao, Sulu, Basilan and Tawi-Tawi, and that there was a miscommunication regarding it being implemented nationwide. However, the guy who said this also said that it was "declared not only because of Davao blast but also for crime, drug war".

Edit: the wording isn't clear; it could be me who's misunderstanding it. Another way to interpret it would be "we actually meant to say it was nationwide, and it was a miscommunication that it would only be in Mindanao". Source here: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines/status/771935844387131393

See, that's confusing, because:

https://twitter.com/inquirerdotnet/status/771918246341644288

# ? Sep 3, 2016 06:29

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

gradenko_2000 posted:

And yeah, okay, maybe the literal imposition of Martial Law is actually becoming a police state in a way that Alex Jones' paranoid rants about Obama aren't, but still. There are a lot of people out there who are using this as cover to further rally behind the President, no matter what he does, and I have no wish to be tasteless or ghoulish.

https://twitter.com/moneyedCapital/status/771934588667060224

I'm seeing a lot more of this than I'm actually seeing anyone "celebrating". I'm actually kind of offended that people think the anti-Duterte crew saw this and thought "this is my chance to jab Duterte" or "hah, they deserve it" (there's a popular post on FB right now where someone paints us as such).

I know I'm preaching to the choir here but oh my god people we can be sad about a tragedy and worried about the future at the same time! It's not unreasonable to have concerns about the government response to a crisis, and drawing comparisons to similar events in history isn't a "Martial Law fantasy" (as another popular post is calling it) nor do we draw these comparisons "gleefully"! These are actual points of consideration that can't just be ignored because someone said "haha no it's not martial law"! :tizzy:

# ? Sep 3, 2016 06:41

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Argue posted:

I'm seeing a lot more of this than I'm actually seeing anyone "celebrating". I'm actually kind of offended that people think the anti-Duterte crew saw this and thought "this is my chance to jab Duterte" or "hah, they deserve it" (there's a popular post on FB right now where someone paints us as such).

That's kind of what I meant. I'm seeing more people go "LOOK AT THE LIBERALS CELEBRATING THIS!!! DUTERTE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!!!" than any actual proof of any actual celebrating.

And then there's also the people who are very transparently running ... can I call it an online false flag without coming off as a nut?

# ? Sep 3, 2016 06:49

Argue: Sep 29, 2005; I represent the Philippines

Geez, now I'm annoyed at that. The administration damns itself enough without us needing truthers. I doubt they're plants because there's nuts everywhere. But even truthers are laughed at by anti-Bush people so I don't think we need to resort to calling them false flags.

# ? Sep 3, 2016 07:05

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 06:25

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

druggies believe the craziest things.

# ? Sep 3, 2016 09:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The Philippines: Forget everything you thought you knew about human rights

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