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Pretty much the title. To me anime seems as popular as ever. However, one can't deny that a fair bit of success comes from the rise of piracy giving people many more options and less risk for their entertainment. To cut to the chase, I am curious to see how much more profitable the anime industry is (assuming it is) world-wide during the modern era where piracy is so rampant. I do realize that this will be tough to gauge since video sales in general are down as more people move on to Netflix, Crunchyroll, and iTunes to watch their shows, but I assume there has to be some way to measure this.
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Aug 27, 2016 18:53
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I think it's actually very difficult to quantify the amount of piracy that's happening nowadays - both because of services like Crunchyroll, Netflix, Amazon Video, and similar which have made a business model out of making it attractive to pay a bit to get legitimate access to something rather than breaking the law and have to spend time setting up a system that can properly identify and keep track of what you've seen, but also because the bandwidth requirements have changed. Another factor is that because a lot of it has moved onto the deepweb and/or become encrypted, it's simply become much harder to track. Based purely on gut-feeling then, I'm not at all confident in saying that there's probably less piracy per-capita, if that's even a thing.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:35
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I realize piracy is still huge, I'm just wondering how many new anime fans actually watch their stuff legally and how much that money goes back to Japanese studios. My gut feeling says more than I think being how high quality the animation is for many of the newer shows.
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Aug 27, 2016 19:55
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here's some sites that might help you http://www.someanithing.com/ http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2015-08-25/report-anime-industry-up-10-percent-in-2014/.92114 theres a link there, to an organisation that puts out yearly profit reports. its in japanese tho if you look at how cunrchyroll has been expanding, its fairly obvious as well that their income has been increasing. they keep doing new stuff that requires a fair amount of money like their own dubs and blu ray releases and even getting into the production committees for anime. netflix and amazon are also increasingly starting to exploit the market with amazon buying up all the noitanime series (gently caress em) and netflix funding some of their own shows like perfect bones international piracy is hard to say, but a japanese guy told me that piracy in japan is fairly rare, they come down on it hard there
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Aug 27, 2016 20:04
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Davincie posted:here's some sites that might help you Thanks for this. Seems that the genre is growing quite rapidly.
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Aug 27, 2016 21:29
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If you pirate you are human garbage
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Aug 27, 2016 21:54
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haha yeah...
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Aug 27, 2016 22:08
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crime ftw
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Aug 27, 2016 22:11
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Namtab posted:If you pirate you are human garbage 
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Aug 27, 2016 22:24
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There are still some instances where piracy is... not "okay" but "less bad", like unlicensed movies or OAVs or whatnot. Generally speaking though you really ought to watch the drat legal thing. It amazes me that no one seems to have a remedy for something like Kissanime. Why do American shows seem to have a (relatively) easier time with beating up piratey streaming sites?
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Aug 27, 2016 22:29
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OnimaruXLR posted:There are still some instances where piracy is... not "okay" but "less bad", like unlicensed movies or OAVs or whatnot. What about the situation where it works out for the producer*? I NEVER would have started watching walking dead, BSG, or breaking bad if I hadn't been come across pirated copies of the pilots on a loaned portable HD. Now I own them all on DVD (and also am MUCH more open to the idea of buying TV shows), I don't watch anything on TV at all, my only exposure is online and DVD. *Not normal results
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Aug 27, 2016 23:26
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I mean, in the broad sense, if you don't give a poo poo and ANY means leads to you giving a poo poo and supporting something through tangible means, then that works out
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Aug 28, 2016 00:01
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Namtab posted:If you pirate you are human garbage
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Aug 28, 2016 00:12
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i pay crunchyroll. my conscience is clean
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Aug 28, 2016 00:14
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The anime and manga piracy situation is interesting to me because of how central it's been to the development and spread of anime's popularity abroad. Setting aside whether or not a lost sale counts as a lost sale in a country where the product was never (at the time) going to be available, fan translations and bootleg tapes (occasionally packaged with extensive booklets documenting and explaining various cultural references and puns) were what put anime on the map for a lot of people, including raising awareness for titles that might not have otherwise seen a release outside of Japan - not that it's always turned out that way, nor always proven profitable.
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Aug 28, 2016 00:37
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i'd like to see sales figures of american comics vs manga sales in US. i've read distributors like diamond actively work against the dissemination of manga
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Aug 28, 2016 01:08
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Endorph posted:what about when the official product is super substandard for one reason or another As a super substandard human this is a situation I like
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Aug 28, 2016 01:29
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Bad Seafood posted:The anime and manga piracy situation is interesting to me because of how central it's been to the development and spread of anime's popularity abroad. Setting aside whether or not a lost sale counts as a lost sale in a country where the product was never (at the time) going to be available, fan translations and bootleg tapes (occasionally packaged with extensive booklets documenting and explaining various cultural references and puns) were what put anime on the map for a lot of people, including raising awareness for titles that might not have otherwise seen a release outside of Japan - not that it's always turned out that way, nor always proven profitable. Pretty much. What pushed anime to become so popular in the West, at least in America, was piracy and Toonami. Things have continued on with Netflix and...piracy. I also believe that subs wouldn't be as popular today without piracy. Relin posted:i'd like to see sales figures of american comics vs manga sales in US. i've read distributors like diamond actively work against the dissemination of manga I would like to know this too.
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Aug 28, 2016 02:01
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Davincie posted:here's some sites that might help you They release an English summary version as well, here: http://aja.gr.jp/english/japan-anime-data It seems like there has been a strong uptick in overseas sales from 2013, though it hasn't recovered back to the heights of 2005~2006 yet. The 2016 report (for 2015 data) should I guess be out next month, so we'll see how that goes. Relin posted:i'd like to see sales figures of american comics vs manga sales in US. i've read distributors like diamond actively work against the dissemination of manga It looks like American comics drastically outsell manga in the US ($400+ million to $<100 million) from these two sources, which don't seem great but were the best a cursory googling got me. http://www.statisticbrain.com/comic-book-statistics/ http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...estsellers.html Both pale in comparison to the Japanese domestic manga market, which is measured in the billions of dollars. Davincie posted:international piracy is hard to say, but a japanese guy told me that piracy in japan is fairly rare, they come down on it hard there I don't know about how hard they come down on it (the laws are pretty strict but I think enforcement is pretty lax, for nerd poo poo at least), but "Piracy" is extremely looked down on by the community at large, and I agree with that guy that it's quite rare. That said, I put piracy in quotes up there because "getting the product without paying for it" is still very widespread, it's just not "piracy." For anime, remember that it shows on regular TV here; most people just watch it as it airs (or DVR it) at no cost besides what they pay for TV already*. For manga, tachiyomi, lit. "reading while standing," is rampant. You can just walk down to a convenience store and read the weekly/monthly magazines off the rack without paying a *Sort of like the BBC, every household in Japan is required to pay into the NHK if they have any way of watching TV (I once had to pay it because my lovely flip phone had an antenna and was thus capable of watching TV, even though I didn't even own an actual TV at the time). Being able to watch/read the product for free with a little effort/inconvenience (trying to catch an anime as it airs, standing in a bookstore/convenience store to read), or paying extra for convenience and a cleaned up experience (since lots of stuff is often redone for volume releases)--plus supporting the author/industry, which is not a small factor, I think--has been a part of the industry domestically since forever. I'm sure I'm biased, for obvious reasons, but I think without that ability to get a taste of stuff for free/fan translations giving the market a look at stuff to judge popularity before the messy work of getting it licensed*, this industry would never be the relative international success that it is. Not to say it doesn't hurt the industry in ways as well, especially now that it's more established and reasonably priced subscription services are becoming the norm. *holy poo poo this can be extremely painful, it's like publishers/creators hate money sometimes (tbf most of them have probably been burned by licensees in the past) Fwiw, I spent unhealthy amounts of money on this poo poo myself, especially manga (making it available on kindle has ruined me  ).
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Aug 28, 2016 12:01
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VostokProgram posted:i pay crunchyroll. my conscience is clean
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Aug 28, 2016 12:24
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i bought the us release of lucifer and the biscuit hammer, which i think means im responsible for 50% of its earnings.
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Aug 28, 2016 12:44
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I'm going to need op to prove that piracy is a big part of what caused anime to become big in the west with non anecdotal evidence
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Aug 28, 2016 13:50
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z0glin Warchief posted:They release an English summary version as well, here: http://aja.gr.jp/english/japan-anime-data This is interesting. Is that total revenue (e.g. Blu-Ray sales, DVD sales, Netflix, Hulu, CrunchyRoll, etc.) or just home video sales?
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Aug 28, 2016 15:10
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I think part of the reason the whole "anime boom" thing is happening over here in the US is that companies in general are taking much smarter approaches to it than the last time anime became really big right around 1999-2001. After the initial successes of popular series like Dragonball Z and Gundam Wing, companies were licensing literally everything and anything expecting that it would print money in the same way. The approach in the past few years seems to be a bit more restrained, since you have companies like Crunchyroll and Funimation doing mostly low effort productions like subbing and reserving dubs only for the most anticipated shows (ok, maybe Funimation's getting a little too uppity with the broadcast dubs, but the fact that they practically own a certain set of voice actors lets them do that). On the other hand, I walk into a Barnes and Noble to find that they've got a disproportionately large manga section and I see that Kodansha is literally publishing their entire collection of currently running series, and that makes me think maybe they still haven't quite got it.
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Aug 28, 2016 16:11
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z0glin Warchief posted:
reading comics in a bookstore as a kid is the original piracy Relin fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 16:28
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Namtab posted:I'm going to need op to prove that piracy is a big part of what caused anime to become big in the west with non anecdotal evidence Not completely related to this statement but there is something official I heard about piracy on the manga side of things. I once listened to podcast with a representative from Vertical Inc and the piracy question came up, wrt whether it affects sales or not. The guy clearly looked into it before because he had an answer with some data. He said that there was a manga series (that he did not name) where the scanlators stopped after they licensed it. The sales of the manga were okay until they passed the point where the scanlators stopped. He did not give concrete numbers but he said that once they started releasing volumes that had no English scans, there was a "significant increase" in sales. He didn't condemn piracy outright, rather he said that it's helpful for discovery but probably not helpful in the long term after the discovery phase. I suspect it's much more of a benefit for manga in the west because most series just don't have the same marketing push that anime gets.
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Aug 28, 2016 16:34
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Namtab posted:I'm going to need op to prove that piracy is a big part of what caused anime to become big in the west with non anecdotal evidence Unless you're talking about something other than fansubs I thought this was pretty well known? RightStuf have a decent synopsis of the history of anime in the U.S. I'm sure more knowledgeable people can point at other sources. I'm not sure whether it's a current "problem", though for that all I have is personal anecdotes. I mean these "show threads" where people watch and comment every week looked very different even ten years ago. Today everyone's watching on CR, or Funimation (as best I can tell) when with Eureka Seven, for example, we'd be waiting weeks for batches of wonky subs to show up on XDCC or some flaky torrent tracker. "Officially licensed" announcements were met with reluctant acceptance.
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Aug 28, 2016 16:50
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Sorry, thats anecdotal evidence
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Aug 28, 2016 17:41
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punk rebel ecks posted:This is interesting. Is that total revenue (e.g. Blu-Ray sales, DVD sales, Netflix, Hulu, CrunchyRoll, etc.) or just home video sales? I think it's everything, as this report is from a domestic industry perspective and to them it's all the same, but it doesn't specify in the summary report and I don't have access to the full thing. Though in checking, I noticed that after accounting for exchange rate fluctuations 2014 was actually almost flat relative to 2013 (which was mildly lower than 2012, and quite a bit lower than 2010 and 2011). It notes that subscription services (specifically mentioning Netflix, Amazon, Apple, and Google, but not Crunchyroll, lol) are a potentially huge source of growth, but that "2015 appears to have been the real start of the video distribution era," so I'll be interested to see what that report looks like when it comes out next month.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:02
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Namtab posted:Sorry, thats anecdotal evidence Fair point! I don't remember distributors ever being very forthright about sales figures, and I'm sure a lot of data on fansubbing has been lost. I wonder what sort of information we'd need available to start making more concrete assertions.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:19
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z0glin Warchief posted:I think it's everything, as this report is from a domestic industry perspective and to them it's all the same, but it doesn't specify in the summary report and I don't have access to the full thing. Oh wow. Was anime really more popular during the mid 2000s than today.
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Aug 28, 2016 18:23
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it was also better
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Aug 28, 2016 18:56
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punk rebel ecks posted:Oh wow. Was anime really more popular during the mid 2000s than today. 2005 was the last peak, and that would have been the heyday of stuff like Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach, the first FMA run, DBZ being endlessly looped on Toonami, Rurouni Kenshin and Inuyasha, Yugioh, the list goes on. It was a very different market at the time; instead of basically simultaneous releases of a bunch of shows each season, we got hit with a big glut of massively popular long-running franchises at once.  It's also probably worth noting that physical media (dvds and such) in general was following basically the same trend at the time:  Relin posted:it was also better the pre-moe days...
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Aug 28, 2016 19:00
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I feel like somewhere in the mid to late 00s we also hit that point where anime companies were just licensing EVERY THING no matter what. Like I feel like for every good showing coming out over here, about 3 mediocre to bad ones did.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:05
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It was just too expensive for my tastes, like a single season could end up being 100+ dollars they really didn't make it easy for people to go legit.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:10
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socialsecurity posted:It was just too expensive for my tastes, like a single season could end up being 100+ dollars they really didn't make it easy for people to go legit. Yea I remember for a long time you had to buy like 30 dollar dvds and some shows had like 7 of them. I don't know why some companies today still keep this model.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:16
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Relin posted:it was also better Not really.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:22
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socialsecurity posted:It was just too expensive for my tastes, like a single season could end up being 100+ dollars they really didn't make it easy for people to go legit. I was a legit DVD purchaser in those days and finding a new series was pretty much roulette, imagine instead of streaming you just bought stuff at random based on cover art, price, and like Amazon reviews and you'll know my pain. It very much didn't help matters that there was at least as much or more junk being brought over as there were quality shows so odds were not good just on a statistical level. At some point I switched over to Netflix, which still had a respectable catalogue of sometimes ancient anime DVDs at that point, and finally poverty drove me to checking out fansubs, but luckily enough Crunchyroll became a thing just a year or two later and these days I barely use fansubs at all outside of like looking up 90s OVA's or something. madmac fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 19:23
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Motto posted:Not really. I think you'll find I was still a developing teen in the mid 2000s and that's empirical evidence that anime, like everything else, was best at that time. Anim peaked 2005 - 2008, just like my libido.
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Aug 28, 2016 19:33
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z0glin Warchief posted:2005 was the last peak, and that would have been the heyday of stuff like Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach, the first FMA run, DBZ being endlessly looped on Toonami, Rurouni Kenshin and Inuyasha, Yugioh, the list goes on. It was a very different market at the time; instead of basically simultaneous releases of a bunch of shows each season, we got hit with a big glut of massively popular long-running franchises at once. Ah. So it is likely due to declining DVD sales and huge franchises coming to a close. madmac posted:I was a legit DVD purchaser in those days and finding a new series was pretty much roulette, imagine instead of streaming you just bought stuff at random based on cover art, price, and like Amazon reviews and you'll know my pain. It very much didn't help matters that there was at least as much or more junk being brought over as there were quality shows so odds were not good just on a statistical level. It wasn't so bad if you knew where to shop and waited. I often got complete series like Elfen Lied and Blue Gender for $50 a piece. One Piece seasons were $35 each. punk rebel ecks fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Aug 28, 2016 |
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Aug 28, 2016 19:59
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