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The Year is 1900. The German Empire will soon be celebrating its 30th year since the victory over the French and establishment of a unified state. However, visible to only a few, clouds of war are brewing on the horizon. Rule the Waves is a naval strategy game covering the naval arms races of the first quarter of the 20th century. Not only are we responsible for the navy's tactics during battles, we are also responsible for overseeing the country's naval policy during peacetime, including construction of new ships, development of fleet doctrines, and the use of our battle fleet as a blunt instrument of foreign policy. In this LP, we will be playing as the German empire, as it builds up the Hochseeflotte into one of the world's most powerful navies. In our history, the German fleet eventually came face to face with the British Royal Navy, then the most preeminent fleet in the world. But this is not "our history." The recent 1.33 update to the game has enabled a new mode in which technological developments are somewhat randomized. Everything you know about the way ships are designed may or may not be true. In a similar fashion, we will not necessarily follow the course of history when it comes to tactics, strategy, or policy. Your goal is to make a profit off of this. How the LP works Previous RTW Let's Plays have used a "legislative" approach, wherein the player will ask the thread to pass measures which he will then try to implement in the form of new designs. This Let's Play will use an "inverse legislative" approach. I, acting as the the Imperial Naval Office, will ask you to design and build the ships the high seas fleet requires. You, acting as the design chiefs of 5 influential shipyards, will submit your designs to be evaluated by the office. Those designs selected for production will be awarded with points based on their size and value to the fleet. Be aware: I am vain and fickle. You might want to use that to your advantage, because the goal of the game isn't necessarily for Germany to win- it's for you to make a lot of money. Also, keep in mind that there have been reports of communist agitators in the street. It's a good thing the police keep them in check, because otherwise it might be us in front of the firing squads. There are 5 major shipbuilders that will be part of the game: Germaniawerft, AG Vulcan, the Kaiserliche Werft, Schichau-Werke, and Blohm und Voss. These corporations each have 5 slots on the design board for players. You'll develop designs in response to my request, then vote amongst your shipyard on a final design to submit. If you have the Rule the Waves game, feel free to show your ingame designs. If not, don't worry. I'll be on hand regularly to tell you what elements of design can and cannot be achieved with our current technology. The points awarded to each shipyard will also be given to your individual characters when an order is finalized. There may be other decisions your character has to deal with from time to time which will affect your standings. About shipbuilding  Ship design in RTW is a rather streamlined process compared to real life. Any ship will displace a certain tonnage, and it's up to you how to use this tonnage to build a fighting ship. You could spend it on a larger powerplant for a faster ship, thicker armor, or bigger/more guns and torpedoes. Because the game tries to model naval orthodoxy, certain combinations (like a light cruiser greater that 8000 tons or a battleship with above-water torpedo tubes) may be temporarily or permanently restricted- sorry, no turtle-ships with 24-inch belt armor and 60-torpedo broadsides. When the Imperial naval office puts out a request for proposals, there will generally be a few restrictions, but the rest is up to you. Show me the designs you think will work best. The Corporations When a shipyard gets an order, the company building it gets a share of the points directly correlating to the tonnage of the vessel being ordered (1 pt = 100 tons). The points are also equally divided between the 5 team members of each shipyard. a bonus worth 50% of the tonnage of a ship will be given to the winner of the design competition. Various other bonuses are available depending on the shipyard building the design and its utility in battle. Special one time bonuses will be given for ships which distinguish themselves in battle.  Germaniawerft: Located in Kiel, Germaniawerft became the largest builder of U-boats during WWI. Germaniawerft receives +100% points for every U-boat built in their yards. As a Krupp company, Germaniawerft also recieves a +5% points for every ship built in their yards with artillery equal or than 12".  AG Vulcan: Based in the city of Settin and with a secondary shipyard at Hamburg, AG Vulcan produced many famous passenger liners including the infamous Cap Trafalgar, which was refitted as an Armed Merchant Cruiser during WWI. AG Vulcan Receives +100% points for every AMC built in its yards.  Kaiserliche Werft: An exclusively military shipyard, the Kaiserliche Werft built Battleships and Cruisers for the Hochseeflotte. As an Imperial shipyard, the design board is protected from personal penalties resulting from poor ship performance. It also receives +10% points for every light cruiser built in its yards.  Schichau-Werke: Schichau-Werke was one of Imperial Germany's foremost torpedo boat builders. In addition, they also were responsible for constructing several battleships. Schichau-Werke recieves +30% points for every destroyer or gunboat built in their yards.  Blohm und Voss: B&V was responsible of building 4 of the Hochseeflotte's battlecruisers before WWI. B&V recieves a +10% points bonus for every battlecruiser or armored cruiser greater than 15000 tons built in its yards. How to Join If you want to join as part of one of the design teams, simply indicate so in the thread. The design teams only have 5 slots, so if someone goes inactive they may be retired to make room for other player characters. All information will be visible in the spreadsheet located here. Triggerhappypilot fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 23:38
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Update History ACT I: GERMANIA ASCENDANT Update 1: State of the Navy Update 2: The 1900 Design Competition and a world at peace Special Decision #1: The Kaiser's Cruisers Update 3: The Kaiser's Cruisers, The 1901 Design competition, and the end of an era Update 4: The 1902 design competition and the Coronation War Update 5: An Indecisive Autumn Special Decision #2: Stop the Presses! Special Decision #2 END Update 6: The 1903 Design competition and the Long Winter Update 7: The 1904 Design competition and a race against humanity Update 8: The 1905 Design competition and Moving Towards a New War Update 9: The Supplementary Design competition of 1906 and the Baltic Blockade Update 10: The design competition of 1906 and the Frozen War Update 11: The Naval Law of 1907 and Guns, Steel and Money Update 12: Special Decision #3 Conclusion and the 1908 Naval Law Amendment Update 13: The Design Competion of 1909 and To war, mal wieder, to war! Update 14: The Supplemental Design Competition of 1910 and the First Battle of the Baltic Update 15: Recap and The Cameroon Campaign Update 16: The Design Competition of 1911 and A Bloodbath in Africa ACT II Update 17: Entr'acte: Meet the fleet in 1912 Update 18: The Great Naval Conference: Day 1 - Special Decision #5 Update 1: The State of the Hochseeflotte in 1900 Greetings, gentlemen of the Industry. I will now give a brief summary of state of the Imperial German Navy. The World  Our colonial possessions in Africa and the Pacific Ocean may not be large, but they provide vital access into some of the most lucrative markets in the world. However, our navy is currently ill-equipped to defend our worldwide possesions, as our current designs have been built with one purpose in mind: to defend Germany's North Sea and Baltic coastlines. As such, they are short-ranged and have tight living quarters.  The German navy is far from impressive. Of the major powers, only Japan and Italy have smaller battle-lines, although our cruiser force is second to none. In other aspects, the German navy is average to above average. Our Battleships     The 9 currently active battleships of the fleet are all broadly similar. Starting with the single ship of the Wettin Class, Gun caliber has increased from 9" to 11", and the secondary battery has, with exception of the 3-ship Mecklenburg class, remained at 18 six-inch guns in casemates. the speed of the battleline is the standard 18 knots of most European battlefleets. The armoring of the battleships is a safe 10" belt, though at only 1.5", the deck armor is somewhat subpar.  German shipyards can only build ships up to 14000 tons as of now, so the war office has ordered a 15,500 battleship of the Braunschweig class from a shipyard in St. Nazaire. Although it is slower, the large secondary battery and 12-inch main battery are the largest ever mounted on a German warship.  3 new battleships of the Hessen Class are scheduled to be delievered from the AG Weser shipyards in the next 2 years. They sacrifice the 11" guns of the Wittelsbach class for a 7" secondary battery. The naval office is dissatisfied with this compromise. Our Armored Cruisers  Unlike our battleship force, our Armored Cruiser force is composed exclusively of 12 ships of the 9600-ton Victoria Louise class. With 8" guns, 21kt speed, and a 5" main belt, she is a well armed, well armored, but slow cruiser.  The new Gneisenau class cruiser is much larger, and its 10" main battery is equivalent to many of our battleships. However, with only a 5" belt and 21kt speed, it is not significantly tougher or faster than the Victoria Louise. the Gneisenau is expected to be completed by January 1901. Our Light Cruisers    Our light cruiser force current consists of the longest-ranged vessels of the fleet. These three classes handle the brunt of colonial stations duty but have unimpressive top speeds- not nearly fast enough to escape from some of the newer British cruisers. Still, their long range and low value makes them suitable as commerce raiders. Our Destroyers   The Torpedo boat force consists mostly of 400-ton V3-class boats with a few larger V1-class boats. Five new 500-ton S31-class boats are scheduled to be completed by June. Priority: Request for Designs Upon reviewing the state of our fleet, The Imperial Naval Office is forced to conclude that our Battleship force is still too small, despite new additions scheduled to be completed in the next few years. The Naval board is seeking a new design of vessel that is to be: -Not less than 10,000 Tons -Able to be constructed in a German Shipyard (no greater than 14,000 tons, no guns larger than 11") -Able to make at least 18 knots A savegame of our present state is available here for design. The save is version 1.33b3 compatible. Triggerhappypilot fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jan 31, 2017 |
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Sep 4, 2016 23:38
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I was just thinking of doing an LP of this! Steal my thunder will you! I demand dreadnoughts at dawn, on the North Sea  Looks like a That said, I do like that you have no company getting bonuses for battleships. Anyways, sign me up for the Kaiserliche Werft as an Naval Architect. This means I'm also a cushy miltary officer right?  I assume you left the legacy fleet on automatic build? [edit] Oh I hope you're using these too. Assuming you're gonna make pictures for the ships. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 01:17
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Looks like a Galaga Galaxian posted:Anyways, sign me up for the Kaiserliche Werft as an Naval Architect. This means I'm also a cushy miltary officer right? The legacy fleet was automatically built, yes. I think it's too easy to game the early system if you build it yourself and i did not want to have design competitions for the entire fleet. I'll definitely be making pretty pictures of the ships when they appear in battle or win a design contest.
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Sep 5, 2016 02:19
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Sign me up for Germaniawerft. We're going to build a thousand submarines, send them all out, and see how many come back. I hope it's not all of them. That would be bad for business. And anyway it's not our fault if they don't come back. They probably struck a mine. The submarine will replace the battleship one day. You'll see. You'll all see!
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Sep 5, 2016 03:06
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I would like to submit an application to Blohm und Voss. As part of my application I have included a sample design for a rather conservative coastal defense battleship. The design should be an improvement over the new Hessen class with 11" main guns, a 7" secondary battery and all around slightly more armor. It also makes 19 knots, although the low freeboard may be a liability in the north sea. I've given it the code name "Weißwurst" as I have a suspicion that current battleship designs won't have a long shelf life. Here is a folder with the design documents: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6hdA6AQAM2DamF5NTRNXzZTZ3c&usp=sharing I've also included an artist's rendering of what the ship will look like:   I like this idea for a LP of RTW. Thanks for putting it together. Is this the best way to submit ship designs? Also is there anyway to make a non symmetrical ship picture? I want to try making the dreadnought equivalent of this http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp111.html
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Sep 5, 2016 03:53
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Sign me up as a designer for Schichau-Werke. As a proud builder of torpedo boats, we will do our part to make the German Navy go fastfastfast! 
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Sep 5, 2016 06:28
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I was thinking that soliciting ship designs from the 'design bureau' would be a fun way to do a RtW LP. I'll have to knock the game into working again, so i won't take up a designer slot for now. But AMCs are situational at best, perhaps AG Vulkan could also benefit on minesweepers?
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Sep 5, 2016 08:31
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Sign me up for Blohm und Voss! The Weisswurst seems alright for now - I'm not sure if those 3" tertiaries are worth much. I would probably cannibalize those and the torpedoes for a slightly stronger belt. Early game compromises are pretty rough due to the limited tech. Speaking of tech, Triggerhappypilot are our design teams allowed to petition for tech priority? As a representative of B&V I propose high priority for Machinery, Ship Design, and expanded dockyards if you'll allow it. 
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Sep 5, 2016 08:39
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TehKeen posted:
Yeah early game designs can be pretty difficult. I usually leave smaller guns on in case of a destroyer attack, but maybe I could have fit 2 extra 7" guns instead? Also I second high priority for machinery, ship design and expanding the dockyards. I would also like to propose adding naval gun research as a high priority. I take it this is only to voice our wishes and Triggerhappypilot will have the final say on how he runs the navy though. Would the best way to do this be for everyone to collaborate outside of the thread then submit the design(s)? Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit last night.
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Sep 5, 2016 14:23
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MeatloafCat posted:I would like to submit an application to Blohm und Voss. dublish posted:Sign me up as a designer for Schichau-Werke. As a proud builder of torpedo boats, we will do our part to make the German Navy go fastfastfast! TehKeen posted:Sign me up for Blohm und Voss! MeatloafCat posted:Would the best way to do this be for everyone to collaborate outside of the thread then submit the design(s)? Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit last night. Ceebees posted:But AMCs are situational at best, perhaps AG Vulkan could also benefit on minesweepers? TehKeen posted:Speaking of tech, Triggerhappypilot are our design teams allowed to petition for tech priority? As a representative of B&V I propose high priority for Machinery, Ship Design, and expanded dockyards if you'll allow it.
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Sep 5, 2016 15:44
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By the way, they added the feature of being able to get design discounts by developing a new ship from a previously existing one* (with restrictions to just how much you can change). I assume a company will retain exclusive use of its designs, for this purpose, yes? Regarding docksize, I'd suggest some modest investment if not "expand every time the previous expansion is done" or we will suffer a bit. I've never seen automatic dock expansions fire too often in the past. And currently Italy, France, and, of course, the British have a larger dock capacities of 15k for Italy and 16k for the other two. Also are you using Very Large fleet size? *Which is funny, cause all of our current battleships look so drat identical Anyways:   Man that sideview took forever to make! I actually made a couple custom parts for that (mostly smaller spreads of windows). I'll probably redraw the superstructure lines later to better match the sideview. Kaiserliche Werft admits our design may not be quite as heavily armed as the design from the gentlemen at Blohm und Voss. However while their numerous casemate guns are impressive, the low freeboard means their efficiency in battle will be heavily effected in all but the calmest seas. And how often is die Nordsee calm? In addition, accommodations on the ship are spacious by the standards of our current battleships, which should help with crew freshness during patrols and battle conditions. Development of the study will cost 3.5million funds and construction of each ship is estimated at 28 months to complete at a cost of roughly 1.6 million a month for a total of about 46 million. Design file and side view will be made available upon the acceptance of our design. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 20:28
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Signing up for Blohm und Voss Why build big an slow ships, which are barely capable of harming each other? We at Blohm und Voss have an alternate idea to our Hessen class and the Kaiserliche Werft battleship proposal, a large, fast and well armed cruiser! Instead of focusing on attacking enemy battleships head on, why not instead attack their weaker ships and be fast enough to dictate the engagement with enemy battleships. The Gneisnau cruiser will be one of the fastest ships in the world, while retaining pretty much the same firepower as the other proposals. She might not win a battleship slug fest on her own, but she will instead dominate enemy cruisers and thus make sure that they play our game, instead of us playing theirs. 
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Sep 5, 2016 21:36
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With the way the game works, that Armored Cuiser will be assigned cruiser duties. Even if it does end up in the battle line (which sometimes happens if there aren't enough battleships) that 23 knots is useless if it ends up steaming along in formation with 18-19knot battleships. Anyways, the Naval Office requested a Battleship, not a cruiser. 
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Sep 5, 2016 22:57
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If it pleases the Imperial Naval Office, Germaniawerft requests that the minimum tonnage of this new design request be revised downward by 99% and that the craft should have the following additional requirements:
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Sep 6, 2016 01:15
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I'll jump in as a representative of the honorable AG Vulcan shipbuilding company. Now, let me level with you. Hitting things from a boat is hard. And the bigger the guns, the harder it is. That's why I think for now the old ways are the best ways, and that we should not seek too radical a departure from the glorious naval traditions that have served us so well in the past. Therefor AG Vulcan would like to submit the Pilot model of the Schießwütig class battleship:  This ship easily slots in with the current line of battle that we have constructed, but adds several features that are a sad necessity on the modern battlefield. Torpedoes on a glorious battleship is a fool's errand. Let the destroyer carry torpedoes, and let our battleships carry firepower enough to deter any attacks from destroyers. To that end, we have equipped the Schießwütig class with a full complement of 24 top of the line 3-inch guns. This will serve to not only protect the Schießwütig class, but also the rest of the line of battle against attacks by light vessels. Moreover, our main battery consists of 4 accurate 10 inch guns, much more reliable than the larger 11-inch guns proposed by some of our competitors. After all, what good is a larger shell if it never hits anything? With that in mind, our design also incorporates an 11 gun broadside of rapid firing 7-inch guns. These guns will easily set fires and cause critical combat damage to enemy ships, with greater accuracy, and allow our larger battery time to deliver the killing blow. The armor remains in line with the standards set by the Imperial Naval office and other members of the line of battle, but of course I would be remiss if I did not point out the lavishly equipped and very well armored conning tower. After all, as I am sure the Imperial Navy commanders assembled would agree, the most valuable part of any vessel is its captain and command crew and equally the most important part of any navy is its admiral. With that in mind we have spared no expense making sure that the officers of our vessels are well protected and looked after. Surely, you will agree that our vessel is the most deserving of your consideration and support?
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Sep 6, 2016 03:56
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What all these designs are missing in order to become frontrunners is spacious accommodations for the admirals who will decide which design to choose.
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Sep 6, 2016 05:37
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KW's proposal would include spacious accommodations for the entire crew. That includes potential flag officers. KW also "tut tut"s all these civilian firms and their audacity to name their porposals. Naming the Kaiser's ships is the job of the Military. 
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 05:40
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DagPenge posted:Signing up for Blohm und Voss professor_curly posted:I'll jump in as a representative of the honorable AG Vulcan shipbuilding company. You've been added. Galaga Galaxian posted:By the way, they added the feature of being able to get design discounts by developing a new ship from a previously existing one* (with restrictions to just how much you can change). I assume a company will retain exclusive use of its designs, for this purpose, yes? Yes, a company will have exclusive rights to design new vessels based upon their previous vessels (excepting where two competing proposals are extremely similar). Keep in mind that, as naval requirements may change rapidly, developing old ship designs into more powerful vessels may not always be called for. We are using Very Large fleet size- expect some Jutland style engagements. On this note, allow me to clarify something that I may not have made clear: Just because a shipyard designs a vessel does not mean it gets exclusive rights to build that vessel- it does get the 50% added design bonus and a guaranteed order of the first class of the vessel. Other than that, vessel orders will generally be distributed according to shipyard load plus the naval office's general opinion towards a shipyard- e.g., a battleship order might not get placed with a certain shipyard if a previous ship from that yard was unsatisfactory in some way. Galaga Galaxian posted:Anyways, the Naval Office requested a Battleship, not a cruiser. It is technically within the design requirements. I try to leave them relatively vague to allow people to experiment more. Though we would have to do something about that name, as we've already got a Gneisenau going into commission very shortly. Cathode Raymond posted:If it pleases the Imperial Naval Office, Germaniawerft requests that the minimum tonnage of this new design request be revised downward by 99% and that the craft should have the following additional requirements: A hastily scribbled out note from the desk of Tirpitz: Tirpitz posted:If you plan on sinking our own Navy before that of the enemy, It might be easier just to have you hung for treason right now. Alright, seeing as all major shipyards now have at least one designer, I'm finalizing a due date for the proposals. A single proposal meeting requirements should be submitted in the thread by 5 PM EST on Tuesday. That means Blohm & Voss should decide on one design to use and the other companies can either keep their current proposals or update them as they wish. Anyone new joining after this post will have to wait until the next design competition.
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Sep 6, 2016 05:55
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For too long, naval warfare has been dominated by lumbering iron beasts, machines that struggle to make headway against even the laziest currents, behemoths wallowing in the waves and hardly able to move under their own power. No more! Admirals of the fleet, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages, we at F. Schichau, Maschinen- und Lokomotivfabrik, Schiffswerft und Eisengießerei GmbH have a vision. A vision of lightning-fast fleets sailing circles 'round their foes. Of proud German battleships relentlessly hunting down enemy hulks and sending them to the depths. Schichau-Werke are pleased to present to you the next step in the evolution of Deutschland's glorious navy. We give you... (Cue the music.)   The B Mod.1900A represents the finest that German industry can offer. Operating at a blisteringly fast top speed of 20 knots, the 1900A can outpace every battleship on earth. Propelled by engines with a record-breaking 22,800 horsepower, she may withdraw unmolested if outnumbered, or strike quickly at isolated prey. This increase in speed does not adversely affect firepower. Her 11" guns, only marginally outranged by the largest calibers available to foreign competitors, are more than a match for any cruisers she will face, and are backed by a complement of ten 6" guns and twelve high-quality 3" guns capable of deterring even the most determined of torpedo-boat destroyer attacks. The 1900A also features a 10" armored belt and a 2" armored deck. Heavier on its own than the armor layouts of all but the British-built Braunschweig class (15,600 tons and capable of a laughable 17 knots), the 1900A's protection will allow her to stand proudly with her older cousins in the line of battle. The gun shields on the secondary mounts, though lighter than typical, are still strong enough to deflect splinters from near-misses. Schichau-Werke's B Mod.1900A is the beginning of a new era of battleship combat. We choose to set the speed of the line of battle at 20 knots. Let the British, the French, and the Russians try to catch up.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:51
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I appreciate the speed, but with the level of consumption and meager size of the coal bunkers means she'll be pretty much confined to the North Sea during wartime. Nice side view! Though the life rafts feel a bit out of place for a 1900 ship. You should get the extra ship parts so you have some extra bits to work with and can use the pretty victorian color sets. It also includes a "WW1 German Light Grey" (complete with black turret tops on German-type turrets) scheme for when our beautiful daughters must shed the makeup of peacetime for war.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:58
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Galaga Galaxian posted:I appreciate the speed, but with the level of consumption and meager size of the coal bunkers means she'll be pretty much confined to the North Sea during wartime. And the Ostsee! And really, what other seas do we need our battleships for? As a side note, I tried a narrow belt to save weight, and it gave me enough to up the BE armor to 10" with tonnage to spare. I decided against it since I'm not 100% sure on the effects that option has in game. quote:Nice side view! Though the life rafts feel a bit out of place for a 1900 ship. Thank you! The best-fitting superstructure I could find to match my line drawing had the rafts, so I decided to go nuts. We're looking to the future, after all. Thanks for the link, I'll definitely be using some of those parts.
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Sep 6, 2016 07:14
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If you have the patience for it (and a willingness to risk a screwup requiring you to start over), don't be afraid to layer superstructure parts on top of eachother. I did that for the design a did above. Sinking them into the hull does wonders too: 
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Sep 6, 2016 07:54
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I like using large ACs like this in some of my games so I support this for the B&V entry (although we really need some concept art of it). Plus it's different and that's what were all about here at Blohm und Voss.
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Sep 6, 2016 14:04
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Sign me up for Blohm & Voss. I would have had a design, but it looks like I'm too late for that. That being the case I endorse DagPenge's cruiser design.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:11
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As a bit of a general recommendation to the admiralty, KW suggests the navy adjust the ammo loads of our larger ships to include more HE and instruct our ships to use HE against enemy battleships beyond close range (and maybe HE vs Armored Cruisers beyond medium). At further ranges AP has little hope of penetrating armored sections and at least HE is likely to maul superstructure and exposed elements, and possibly set fires.
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 23:08
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This is a really creative way of having a goon-run game! I don't have any real familiarity with the game so can't help much with the design, but I can't wait to see hundreds of goatse-themed boats take to the waves!
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Sep 7, 2016 00:35
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My B&V vote is for the Gneisenau AC prototype, though in my opinion it should lose the tertiaries to beef up the ammo count. Maybe the torpedoes and maybe go to minimum armor for the secondaries (2.5" iirc?) and maybe 1-1.5" deck armor for a beefier belt/BE armor so it can brawl other cruisers harder. I don't think having thick deck armor is going to matter over the life expectancies of these cruisers. Their 10" guns will be competitive for quite some time especially with AP advances, which is nice considering they're going to be quite expensive. (14kt is no joke) I like this design, it's basically a proto-battlecruiser. I can't wait for oil fuel and steam turbines. 
TehKeen fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 02:23
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TehKeen posted:Their 10" guns will be competitive for quite some time especially with AP advances, which is nice considering they're going to be quite expensive. (14kt is no joke) It's actually the most expensive proposal that's been pitched. More than 10% pricier than the average of all the others.
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Sep 7, 2016 02:39
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Yep, huge displacement plus huge machinery plus large-ish guns. 
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Sep 7, 2016 02:49
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Update #2: The 1900 Design Competition and a world at peace Gentlemen, The Imperial Naval Office has recieved designs for the 1900 design competition submitted by four of the major shipyards.  Kaiserliche Werft's Battleship 1900 The Kaiserliche Werft's design shows a good understanding toward's the Navy's preference for larger vessels with greater firepower. The armoring scheme is quite similar to our previous designs, as is the main battery arrangement. However, the downsizing of the tertiary battery to 2" guns is a compromise in it's ability to protect the battleline from torpedo boats. However, the much greater concern for this design is that the secondary batter has a measly 5-gun 6" broadside. The choice to include larger-than-normal size accomodations for a ship that will mostly be confined to sorties in the Baltic, Skagerrak, and the North sea is also questionable. German Seamen need no such excessive comfort.  AG Vulcan's "Konzept: Schießwütig" Battleship AG Vulcan presents the office with a design so remarkably similar to our earlier Battleships that one wonders if they did any design work at all. This is not to say, however, that they have demonstrated any lack of understanding for current naval requirements. The 10" main battery is somewhat smaller than anticipated, but as our current 10" models rival our current 11" models in power, this is not necessarily a large downside. We are very pleased to see that AG Vulcan's design has incorporated one of the heaviest secondary broadsides on a German battleship to date. The massive Tertiary battery is also more than satisfactory to fend off torpedo boats. We are, however, slightly concerned about the lack of torpedo tubes.  Schichau-Werke's Battleship mod. 1900 Schichau-Werke's Battleship proposal has clearly been influenced by their heritage as a torpedo boat manufacturer; With a top speed of 20 knots, their proposal would be the fastest battleship in the entire Kaiserliche Marine. Unfortunately, the sacrifices in firepower required to achieve this speed are great: The secondary and tertiary batteries are fairly small, and the ship (perhaps surprisingly) has no torpedo tubes. The Imperial naval office does appreciate Schichau-Werke's commitment to the safety of the command officers, However.  Blohm und Voss's "Ersatz Gneisenau" Armored Cruiser proposal Blohm und Voss has certainly chosen an...interesting approach to the design requirements by developing, rather than a battleship, an Armored Cruiser. The Imperial Naval Office is not quite sure why the Gneisenau, a ship not even commissioned, will need a replacement so soon- perhaps the gentlemen at Blohm und Voss think corporate sabotage of AG Weser's yards an acceptable response to the 1898 design competition and not, in fact, an act of treason. Regardless, the Cruiser is no doubt impressive. However, compared to the current Gneisenau, the proposed cruiser gains only 2 knots of speed and a smaller secondary battery as well as slightly thicker armor. Her armor is, nonetheless, too thin for her to stand in the line of battle, where our forces will most desperately be needed. Germaniawerft's ??? Germaniawerft did not submit a design to the competition. We can only assume they are focusing their efforts on passenger liners, or perhaps busying themselves with fanciful contraptions appealing only to fish-lovers instead of weapons of real military consequence. The Imperial Naval Office, after careful deliberation, has decided to place an order of AG Vulcan's Design from her yards. The design will be standardized as the "Preussen" class.  February, 1900: AG Vulcan has won the design competition! The first ship of the Preussen class is laid down! AG Vulcan Gains 140 + 70 (50% design bonus) points for new ship order! ----------------------------------- The World Today  Tensions around the world remain rather low. However, as the 30th anniversary of the German nation's founding approaches, we are reminded that the French still consider Elsaß-Lothringen to be Francia Irredenta.  Curiously, our metallurgists at Krupp appear to be having a little trouble with their supposed "innovations." Perhaps this does not bode well for Germaniawerft.  The first of the S35-class torpedo boats is finally commissioned into service. The S35 are the fastest ships in the fleet, capable of making 28 knots. They are also the best armed torpedo boats in the fleet, being the first to mount a 4" gun. June, 1900: Another Ship of the Preussen Class is laid down! The contract is awarded to the Kaiserliche Werft! KW gains 140 points!  In July, The last of the Joseon Dynasty, King Gojong, was found dead of suspected poisoning. The already struggling "Hermit kingdom" was thrown into a civil war. The neighboring Japanese Empire announced to the world that they would be sending a force to secure the capital and force a truce. Despite the threat of expansion, Germany takes no action against the Japanese.  In two weeks, it is over. The large, relatively modern Japanese force was able to completely wipe out any troublemakers. Foreign Minister Bülow still thinks that the Japanese should not have been allowed to expand, but of the European powers only Russia condemns the attack.  In September, Foreign Minister Bülow's concerns about the apparent weakness of German foreign policy are brought to a head after the assassination of a French businessman in Montenegro. while the French put pressure on the Principality to allow inspectors to investigate the murder, An unexpected display of German support keeps the situation in deadlock until it is revealed that the Frenchman was attempting to sell weapons to seperatists. The German response sharply increases tensions with France, and Foreign Minister Bülow's asendancy to the Chancellorship later that month keeps them there. His replacement, Foreign Minister von Richthofen, takes no immediate action.  In October, the light cruiser Lübeck goes into commission.  Despite the new name, Lübeck is essentially unchanged from the Hela class, only with a more complicated superstructure and various internal differences.  Krupp finally fixes the issue with their armor process which had resulted in steel that was too brittle to use as armor.  A new model rangefinder from Zeiss signals the potential for a revolution in naval fire control. October, 1900: Another Ship of the Preussen Class is laid down! The contract is awarded to Schichau-Werke! S-W gains 140 points!  December: Another new light cruiser, the Medusa, is brought into service.  As it would turn out, "Medusa" was quite the apt name for a ship that Tirpitz has called "the ugliest construction in human history, rivaling perhaps only the Dupuy de Lôme." The ship was designed and built at a minor shipyard previously only experienced in building small liners, and it reeks of the english tradition. The lower-than-usual freeboard of the ship leaves it wet in the frigid waters of the North Sea, and the "bastard" battery of 4" and 3" guns is difficult to coordinate. The ship soon gets a reputation for being a punishment duty.  Also in December, German agents recover plans to the new Russian armored cruiser Polkan, under construction in England.  The Polkan is an awful imitation of the Gneisenau built on a smaller displacement. It's hardly an impressive vessel.  Perhaps most importantly for the future, Naval designers have concluded that a secondary battery larger than 7" can safely be fit onto a ship if precautions are taken to keep the ship from being too top heavy. The Imperial Naval Office will allow such batteries to be included in the designs of new ships.  In January, 1901, the armored cruiser Gneisenau is comissioned into the fleet.  At 22 Knots, she is easily the fastest large vessel in the fleet. AG Weser have really outdone themselves. The new pride of the fleet tours the ports of Germany, awing the public with her brilliant white paint and sharply dressed crew.  Also commissioned in January is the Battleship Hessen. Despite strategically being the more important of the two new vessels, the short and stocky Battleship simply does not have that je ne sais quoi of sleek and elegant Gneisenau. Impressed with the cruiser, the Imperial Naval Office orders a second of the class. October, 1901: Another Ship of the Gneisenau Class is laid down! The contract is awarded to Blohm und Voss! B+V gains 122 points!  There is a surplus in the budget. The Kaiser thinks that a third Vessel of the Gneisenau class is merited, but the Imperial Naval Office has recognized that our light cruiser force is in dire need of attention- and with the threat from France rising, we cannot afford to have inadequate light cruiser designs. ----------------------------------- Design contest of January 1901: The Imperial Naval Office has noticed that our light crusier designs are too slow to keep up with newer designs. Design a Light cruiser that meets the following requirements: -No greater than 6000 tons displacement -Firepower of at least 4" guns -Speed greater than 22kt -The office would prefer to have a large number of these cruisers A save file with the present save (as well as generated ship images) is availible here. Again, this save is version 1.33b3. Designs are due at 5pm EST on Friday, 9/9. ----------------------------------- I have added all the people who have requested a design slot so far. Point totals for each company are as follows: AG Vulcan: 210 Kaiserliche Werft: 140 Schichau-Werke: 140 Blohm und Voss: 122 Germaniawerft: 0 You can check your individual point totals on the spreadsheet here. Triggerhappypilot fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 01:18
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Spoken off the record at a naval dinner function. Well! If I was to be honest. The greatest problem with our battleship proposal was that the armored shell tapered to only an inch and a half worth of penetration protection at the top. Studies conducted by the navy have shown that at least two inches are required to protect from shrapnel damage. I fear explosive shells fited into the superstructure presented a real danger of damaging the interior. Unfortunately I spotted the problem far too late into the design process too late to do anything about it. As for the armament issue, I agreed with the admiral about the 2" defensive guns. They're crap, as the Americans say. They've barely got half the range of the 3"QF and you barely notice them. I protested about them myself but was overruled on weight savings. I do disagree with the judgement about the secondary guns. I don't have the numbers on me, obviously, but there is very little difference in the range and power of the gun over the Preussen's sevens, granted it has a LOT more guns than our design... I suppose the point is moot. The Admiralty is permitting larger secondary batteries now. I expect the next class of battleship will mount eight or even ten inch guns. But part of me wonders why bother. ... Oh yes the firepower will be impressive. But there are a great number of potential issues with logistics, rate of fire, protection of such large secondary batteries, fire control issues, and more that all add up to more and more displacement. I'm starting to think that Italian fellow I spoke to at a dinner last year might actually have the right idea. He was a fellow military naval designer. The man was obsessed with speed as the Italian designers are want to, and all too ready to foolishly sacrifice armor to achieve it. He forgets a warship's first duty is to remain a warship. All the speed in the sea is useless if you're sitting at the bottom sunk. Anyways, I digress, the man mentioned to me he envisioned the battleships of the future would be armed with a uniform armament of large caliber guns. I called him a fool for it. Large guns do good damage, yes, but their rate of fire is awful, not to mention the accuracy of modern gunfire. No, better to have a few large guns for closing the range and then rely on a large secondary battery of Quick Fire guns to chew the enemy apart. I must grudgingly admit AG Vulcan had the right idea there. But if they're going to enlarge the secondary batteries, maybe it would be best to just replace them with a uniform armament. It would simplify things. But what is the point when you're struggling to achieve a rate of fire of less than one shell every two minutes! Not to mention the increased long range firepower is useless if you can't hit at that distance. Anyways, did you hear about the request for a new protected cruiser design? Well, I promise you I will redeem Kaiserliche Werft with this one! Kaiserliche Werft requests clarifications on the duties of the requested Protected Cruiser. Is it intended as a general purpose vessel, a dedicated fleet scout/escort, or a cruiser in the classical independent patrol and prize-hunter sense? Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 02:41
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Our beautiful new battleship has not even left the drydock, and it is already obsolete. So ist das Leben. However I congratulate the admiralty on their clear thinking in choosing our design for construction. Our vessel may be superseded by the firepower of the next generation of battleship, but it will never fail in its duty as a gunship to cover the rest of the line of battle. I have also heard that there is a desire for a new cruiser to fill in the gaps of our fleet and act as a general purpose craft. As it happens, AG Vulcan has already been doing research into such a vessel. Now, the lesson that AG Vulcan has learned over the last months is that the pace of ship design and development is always increasing. This means that any vessel that will be constructed in great numbers must be designed to fight not just designs of today, but to be able to perform its function against the ships of the future. Therefor, in order to meet the design standards set forth by the Imperial Admiralty for a large number of ships, we have made future-proofing a central guiding principle of our design.  There are compromises that have been made, but in our opinion we have achieved our central goal of a ship design that will continue to serve dutifully into the future. At 4000 tons, our design is not the smallest light cruiser design in the fleet but the compact and light design does save time and resources in construction compared to larger vessels. The main armament of two 6-inch guns will allow it to engage other cruisers in its class, and a secondary battery of six 4-inch guns will allow it to quickly damage and destroy lighter ships. This is relatively light firepower, however we compensate by a much heavier and consistent armor layout compared to other ships of this weight class. The two-inch belt, turret and secondary armor protects the vessel against guns up to 6-inch at 5000 yards. Smaller vessels mounting 3, 4 or 5-inch guns will find precious little purchase, allowing our vessel to continue in service with a minimum of repairs after engaging against lighter vessels. As always we continue our standard heavy protection of the conning tower and the command crew. At 23 knots, our design is faster than any cruiser in currently serving in our fleet. However the true draw of our design is the extreme care we have exhibited in procuring the powerplants. Not only do we guarantee a low rate of failure under combat conditions, we are confident that our high-rated engines will continue serving many years after others would have worn out and needed replacing. In summary, our design may not be the fastest, or the heaviest armed, but it is a ship designed to minimize time in the dry-dock and repair yard. The range and accommodations are longer than many of our ships and with its reliable engines it will also serve admirably as a raider and patrol vessel, as well as a scout and screen for the fleet. We hope that our design is satisfactory to the Admiralty, -AG Vulcan Huzzah! I can't wait for my ship to explode immediately the first time a destroyer coughs at it. If it matters, I'd like to request Machinery Development be given high priority research, at least until another shipyard wins and takes AG Vulcan out of the limelight.
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Sep 8, 2016 04:01
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Germaniawerft shipworks presents a bold new vision of light ship warfare in the 20th century, the Stechmücke class light fleet cruiser.  Faster than any ship of her type, comparatively well protected, and boasting two large 8-inch guns which would give this class of vessel the ability to engage any near-peer opponent well outside of the range of their own battery. If at any point she should encounter a ship well armed or armored enough to give her trouble, she is more than fast enough to outrun her opponent. In addition, a potent battery of 4 and 6 inch guns means she can face down any opponent in a broadside duel and provide robust anti-torpedo boat protection for flagships and merchantmen alike.
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Sep 8, 2016 04:24
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(Cue the music.)   The CL Mod.1901A will be the fastest light cruiser in the world when she is completed a mere 18 months from now. By stripping out all unnecessary armor, Schichau-Werke can provide a powerfully armed and highly cost-effective craft capable of hunting merchant ships with impunity and able to go toe-to-toe with any cruiser of similar size. Her eight 6" guns can take on heavier cruiser armor at close range while totally outmatching the 4" armament of lighter vessels. Her secondary armament, though light compared to the slower cruisers currently operated by our fleet, is still more than many foreign cruisers mount, and will complement anti-destroyer defenses. The 1901A is lightly armored, but her belt provides adequate protection against her own 6" guns at 5000 yards, and she is more than fast enough to avoid any heavier cruisers whose armor will give her trouble. Indeed, her true appeal lies in her speed and cost. At a lightweight 3500 tons, the 1901A can be built quickly, and more than 10% cheaper than the current state-of-the-art Gazelle-class. We can flood the trade lanes with these ships, both in European waters and among our far-flung colonies. If France sees fit to challenge the might of our navy, these cruisers will more than meet our needs. More heavily armed than any French light cruiser, and a full 3 knots faster, the Mod.1901A will sweep the North Atlantic clear of French shipping.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:38
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What's the rules on independent designers throwing ideas out there?
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Sep 8, 2016 07:03
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  Kaiserliche Werft's proposal presents a protected cruiser based loosely on the Gazelle class' specifications. Displacement is increased by slightly less than 25%. Our design speed is 24 knots, enough to outpace all current British Armored Cruisers. Primary armament is eight 15cm SK L/40 cannons with a five gun broadside, more than enough to significantly threaten an opposing protected cruiser or torpedo boat destroyer with destruction, while a submerged torpedo tube on each broadside rounds out the armament. Armor protection sees a half-inch increase to the slopes of the armor plate to provide increased protection against close-range intermediate gunfire of up to 7" caliber that can be expected during a pitched fleet engagement. In addition, in a departure from previous designs, the broadside guns will be placed in casemated positions along the hull, providing far superior protection against enemy fire and shrapnel damage. This should significantly reduce the chances of death or grievous injury of the gunnery crew, replacement of which can cost vital time and attention during a battle*. Given the rising economic and displacement costs associated with a protected cruiser of such speed, the increase in armor protection was deemed warranted, at the expense of the secondary guns. We feel confident that the ship's primary armament should be sufficient to drive off enemy torpedo boat destroyers before they are in torpedo range. KM believes this proposal represents a good investment. A swift and capable fleet scout that is still able to perform satisfactorily as an independent cruiser and commerce raider. *Yes this is modeled for those not familiar with RtW. And hooo boy, I would NOT want to be a gunner on the Schichau-Werke proposal. With no gunshields those men are gonna be reduced to meat chunks the second shells start hitting. Shrapnel's a bitch And yeah I know the casemated guns are weird. 2" armor or less is considered just a gunshield on turrets but I recently learned that apparently on casemates its (of course) full enclosed armor. I'm curious as to if its worth it. Plus German light cruisers loved their casemated guns. Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 07:05
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I've got some stuff on my plate that's preventing me from finishing my current game and updating to 1.33, but once that's out of the way I'll likely pitch in. If I'm reading the Naval Staff correctly, I suspect AG Vulcan is leading the second design competition as well.
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Sep 8, 2016 08:23
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 Most eye-catchingly the CL-1901 features a main battery broadside of six 6-inch guns, unprecedented for her class yet highly efficient. Additionally, a secondary battery of three 4-inch guns per side add to the ship's already impressive weight of fire at close to mid ranges, and allow it to threaten impertinent torpedo boats without refocusing it's main guns. Finally, the design incorporates a single forward mounted torpedo tube, for administering the coup de grâce should it prove necessary. Protecting her vitals are an again unprecedented 3 inches of belt armor, which not only protect from cruiser caliber AP shells at 5000 yards for the near future, but also allow her to shrug off even 9 inch shells of the day at longer ranges. The primary armament is provided with standard 2-inch gun shields. Speed is not neglected either as the ship's 21300 horsepower powerplant propels her to a maximum speed of 23 knots. With that, no protected cruiser currently afloat can run away from her for long, and no armored cruiser will be able to gain on her. All of this is achieved without resorting to dubious compromises. And last but certainly not least, she is cost-effective enough to be produced in considerable numbers. We believe the CL-1901 will be a reliable jack-of-all-trades for the Imperial German Navy for years to come, and a wake up call and source of angst for other navies. DEPRECATED. New design further down thread. Kuntz fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 08:56
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The Austro-Hungarian Stabilimento Tecnico Triestino read about your competition and as a private company from a close ally we feel we should be able to offer a design for licensing. (I suggest using company with least points.) The Leipzig is our suggestion for the new German Standardkreuzer. 8x6" guns to defeat any destroyers and rival CL 8x3" to defeat torpedo boats 24 knots to dictate engagements plenty of armour to come out ahead and two torpedo tubes. We even left some space for upgrades or to carry more ammo.  The original design is with Skoda guns but Krupp ones will do just fine instead.
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Sep 8, 2016 09:16
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