Without Love, It Cannot Be Seen - Let's Play Umineko

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Without Love, It Cannot Be Seen - Let's Play Umineko

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Man, I keep wanting to say things but then I wonder if they'd count as "oh boy just you wait nudge wink nudge" and not posting, so I'll just say that I'm glad to see another LP of Seacats.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2016 19:17

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:56

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

And now we start getting into why I don't find Maria overly obnoxious. Poor kid.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2016 16:24

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

...I'd forgotten that Beatrice called herself an alchemy counselor. I wonder what that means for the "gold"?

# ¿ Sep 25, 2016 16:58

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

~~I still think the line is "sacrificing to God", not nearly enough syllables for "sacrifice a sheep to God" imo~~

It's honestly kind of painful to see how much both Eva and Natsuhi buy into the patriarchal bullshit that fills the family, just in different ways. The Ushiromiya family is massively hosed up.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2016 03:42

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

So far! But it is still early in the mystery; we've only just found the bodies, so it's almost certain that more clues lie in wait.

Eva is not helping her case, though, I will give you that. :j:

# ¿ Oct 1, 2016 01:08

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

It's hard to say; I'll admit to not being great at figuring out mystery novels before its explained, but I do feel like a piece is missing... Although I don't think that piece is a 19th person. I'm not yet convinced that "Beatrice" isn't just superstition and trickery, possibly even by one of the "dead" with a fully destroyed face... although that could be overcomplicating things, but so does the existence of a literal witch...

Eva is probably the most suspicious? Natsuhi is pretty suspect too, but Eva's aggression over the receipt makes her the bigger suspect. I don't know; my knowledge of the Seacats mystery was incomplete to begin with, and I'd forgotten most of these details. Gotta rebuild my theories from the ground up!

# ¿ Oct 4, 2016 22:12

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

God, I forgot how creepy Maria's changed profile was.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2016 14:56

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Yeah, Kanon's been seriously hosed up by his time in the orphanage. He clearly wants to help Shannon, but his worldview is so warped by abuse that he keeps returning to what his abusers taught him.

...Is it ever stated how old he is? Because to me he reads as a bit younger than the main group of kids. That could be a factor in his reactions.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2016 21:17

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

ProfessorProf posted:

What we really need is for Rosa to stop playing this drinking game.

drat!!

Anyway, I'm kinda glad that Kanon shut Jessica down; that relationship would have been really weird given their status even without his insistence on his being furniture. It's healthier for both that way, in the long run.

# ¿ Oct 21, 2016 22:08

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

<HAPPY HALLOWEEN> :catstare:

For some reason I remembered this happening the first time. I was rather puzzled when it didn't, as you can imagine.

# ¿ Oct 31, 2016 18:08

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Kinzo already has a redeeming quality!

It's his voice actor. :v:

# ¿ Nov 1, 2016 08:49

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

I really feel that Maria's letter held a key-shaped weight (hell, it could have been a key for another door!), and the envelopes were switched after the fact.

Alternatively, since they're sealed with wax it is possible for an individual to open it without obviously breaking the seal, and the contents themselves were swapped... But that seems a bit too complex for this; that set-up took time, after all. No time for opening and reclosing wax seals.

e: Also I've been waiting for the red to appear. Adds some much-needed info and interesting loopholes to the mix~

# ¿ Nov 7, 2016 00:16

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

I fully expect things to get... Messy... now that Rosa "beats her probably-autistic daughter for being autistic/a child" Ushiromiya has the gun.

Although I do like that she's more proactive about searching, at least.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2016 20:22

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

The idea of Rosa-as-human-Beatrice makes a little too much sense for me to dismiss out of hand... Disassociation is almost always caused by severe abuse/trauma, and she displays other signs of abuse clearly, much like her daughter. I can't really give it more credit than that it makes sense from a psychological/"where the hell did Maria learn this poo poo" standpoint at the moment, but it's something to keep in mind.

After all, she was the only sibling to survive the chapel. She is likely partly responsible for that particular murder, at least.

There are holes, absolutely, but I can't dismiss it without seeing more for or against the theory.

# ¿ Nov 11, 2016 12:00

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

"Finishing touches"? What the hell?

# ¿ Nov 12, 2016 04:45

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

I forgot exactly how hosed the banquet scene was, hot drat. At least that let me go into Rosa's Do Not Go Gently scene somewhat fresh; that's such a good scene, after all.

I think there's only a few updates left before I'm finally getting into stuff I've never seen, which is exciting! I love seeing what this game throws at the player.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2016 21:04

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Or maybe the opposite; he becomes a barrier against magic, where magic cannot exist around him.

But maybe that, too, is magic.

Also: man, I forgot about Beato the Silver. I wonder how many Beatrices there're have been...

# ¿ Nov 29, 2016 03:45

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Jesus gently caress, Kinzo. What an utter scumbag.

I'm seeing plenty of reason for Human-Beatrice to kill the entire family if she found out about them, and she has 19 years to do that.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2016 22:07

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Poor Baby-Rosa and Human-Beatrice... And man, the Ushiromiya siblings are such assholes to each other. Can't even take two minutes to stop making GBS threads on each other so they can hear information. It's no wonder Rosa's such a mess as an adult. Wanting to pet the wolves is :3:

as hell though, I will give them that.

I wonder if Human-Beatrice survived the fall? Ten meters is pretty drat high, but if my conversion is right it's not a guaranteed death from impact... Not really enough information to say either way at this point, although more likely than not the fall was fatal due to the terrain and lack of medical help. It's an interesting hole in our knowledge, though.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 08:31

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

I can definitely see Kumasawa influencing the Beatrice mythos during her time there, and she is in the right place to have given away the umbrella, envelope, and letter... But there are too many unknown factors to say that she is certainly the person playing the role of witch.

Also: what the gently caress Kumasawa is beato the silver whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

# ¿ Dec 14, 2016 00:34

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Well, that adds a wrinkle in things. That Rokkenjima is a Schrödinger's island is not something I'd considered; I'd thought that perhaps Beatrice was deliberately showing Battler misleading images. I like this new aspect!

Also, it's good to have a name for our guide in Purgatory.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2016 21:52

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Would the culprit be able to create an icicle of that size and sturdiness on the island, though? It is summer on Rokkenjima, right? So a natural one is out of the question. And I don't know if they could make an artificial one... Not that could kill a human.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2016 22:00

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

~~nooooo my forgetfulness made a fool of me and it's been recorded noooooooo~~

That's an interesting analysis of Beatrice's power... I guess her entire deal is that she's a Schrödinger's witch, like was already said, but what does that actually mean for this mystery?

# ¿ Dec 18, 2016 06:50

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

It's probably because she's now making an attempt to understand others and help them, in addition to trying to prove herself to Battler as a true witch.

Or, alternatively, she still feels the same way about love and lust and thinks that the depth of George's OH DESIRE for Shannon will suffice to bring her back. But I do feel that she is attempting to change, so probably not.

Also the blue Chiester sister's verbal tic is grating. Like I thought it would get less grating over time, but nope. :catstare:

# ¿ Dec 31, 2016 20:49

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

I didn't notice the lack of times given either, but I was also very focused on the "Shannon is dead, Sayo is alive" theory so that's not surprising.

That is a pretty big hole to leave open, though; Evatrice must have been banking on Battler being overwhelmed by red. And in all fairness, it worked until Beato stepped in.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2017 00:23

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Maybe it was always on some level to discover the truth of the Rokkenjima incident? It's not really clear what Beato's actual motives are, after all. She says it's all to prove that witches exist, but in retrospect I'm not sure I'm seeing just that in her actions? I might need to reread again.

I don't know, I just feel like we're missing something about her right now.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2017 23:29

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

MOTHERFUCKER! I've been thoroughly owned by a figment of Battler's imagination!

At least newcomer-who-is-probably-Ange has her head on straight.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2017 03:37

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

She's not a "witch", she's a "slayer of witches"�presumably meaning that she will rip apart the web of falsehoods they weave to seem like a witch instead of whatever their "true self" is (after all, Beato called her "true self" pitiful, and her personality strikes me as one to not say that without meaning it on some level).

Also, great to know that Ange's life post-Rokkenjima would be miserable regardless, it's really good to see how awful her relations are. :stonk:

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 17:41

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Oof, poor Ange... Straight up disassociation from the stress of prolonged bullying isn't something I'm still dealing with, but it still stings to see it written so expertly. This whole school segment has been very hard to read for me, really, but the breakdown is the part that I had to look away for a bit and do something else because that poo poo's too real to me. Including the denial of magic and the like; that poo poo tends to die when you're the designated verbal punching bag. Sorry if this is a bit incoherent, I didn't expect this to hit so close to home.

I'd like to go back to the island murder party, it's less gruesome and depressing than this.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2017 20:29

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Oh no, this won't end well... :ohdear:

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 15:23

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Yeah, I was expecting him to die, I wasn't expecting Rosa to rip him apart with her bare hands and to destroy Maria's other toys with complete serenity while a social worker was watching, because I didn't expect her to do something that would get her custody taken away without a lot of bribery/lawyers. It's the details of the matter that are shocking, not the broad strokes.

Poor Maria.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 21:43

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Oh man, that's exciting news! I'm no good at mystery-solving, but I do love a good mystery regardless and getting more of it faster is the cherry on the sundae.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 06:45

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Okay I just caught up from being several updates behind and I'm just trying to parse all this in limited time...

Shannontrice theory seems to have been mistaken, if in the right direction; I do think that Beato is an alternate persona of one of the characters we know of. Kanon seems like a more likely candidate for at least one of the Beatrices, just because I can't see Shannon shanking George so consistently (maybe it's both?). Still, what was the back-breaking straw of Battler's sin for whoever became Beatrice? The only thing I can think of is that he came to the conference as Battler, but...

No clue how to parse the Battler Isn't Battler thing. I probably need to reread everything and let it percolate in my head a bit before figuring something out. I hope it's not a baby-swap.

Also ANGE NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO FORGIVE YOUR ABUSER. Like, wait until she's not actively torturing you first, geez...!

# ¿ Mar 7, 2017 06:39

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

Well, I hadn't thought that Kinzo Ushiromiya would have been a name passed on. Makes sense, now that I think about it, but still a bit surprising.

I wonder who neoKinzo is, then? I'm not sure, but I don't think she genders good ol' neoKinzo, right? So neoKinzo could be one of the women? It's unlikely because Kinzold is Kinzold, but I can't recall if it's totally debunked right now.

Also, I have a weird theory percolating but it's pretty out there and I'm pretty sure it's dumb bullshit so I'm reluctant to share it in full. _{_{TL;dr if we're going full "personas are separate from the people taking them on" what if Kanon and "K" (or anyone else, but we know the least about Kanon's inner workings) are different genders}}

# ¿ Mar 12, 2017 09:49

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:56

Like Clockwork: Feb 17, 2012; It's only the Final Battle once all the players are ready.

In all fairness if I were a witch and someone pulled THAT with a straight face I'd probably let them win for how loving ballsy they were. I don't think it gets more Umineko.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2017 23:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Without Love, It Cannot Be Seen - Let's Play Umineko