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SpruceZeus posted:Uru is OK. There's a few really annoying puzzles that want you to make use of the physics engine which are pretty bad, the look and controls are a bit dated, and some of the expansion stuff definitely shows its origins of 'scrapped content from our failed MMO we repurposed to be single player instead' but it's still probably worth at least one playthrough in my opinion, since Complete Chronicles is only $10. There's some neat puzzles and cool looking places, and one of the ages in the second expansion, Path of the Shell, is legit kind of mindblowing. Or you can just get the Myst Online version for free (it's kept running by donations).
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Sep 24, 2016 10:29
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Dr. Buttass posted:There's some stuff about the level of detail in the writing too, I think. You have to be extremely detailed about all sorts of poo poo in describing an Age to get a good Link to it, and I think bad Links can cause an Age to be unstable. I'd put an educated guess at, since non-contradictory changes can be made, if your description is too vague, a statement with multiple interpretations is trying to make valid changes that are all true at once, in mutually exclusive ways, tearing the world apart at the seams. I think that's why Riven is jacked up and Gehn's left a long paper trail of genocide behind him; his technique as a Link author can best be described as "gently caress it, I want a burrito." This is only... mostly true. My next Lore post is gonna be a bout the Art, and I'll get more in depth about it.
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Sep 24, 2016 10:52
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whitehelm posted:Or you can just get the Myst Online version for free (it's kept running by donations). Not sure if this is worth ignoring the fact it's free, but it is overall a worse experience (unless one is strictly interested in the online part).
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Sep 24, 2016 13:43
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Hitfreezy posted:It has a different physics engine, which makes the physics puzzles far worse. There's also even less of a story, and at least one puzzle has been reworked to require at least two people. I think they might have changed the physics engine at some point to a better one. I know when it first went back online there were issues due to the different engine, but I replayed everything a few months ago and had 0 physics issues. As for the puzzles requiring multiple people, that's how it originally was. They reworked the Path to the Shell stuff to make it single-player for Complete Chronicles. The random people that are hanging around in the community area are pretty good about doing the "2nd player" tasks for anyone who asks.
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Sep 24, 2016 22:07
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Aahh, much love to Riven, whose sprawling complexity actually gave it the reputation (And rightly so) of being the hardest in the whole series. After all, it is one big area, and, as others have pointed out, while the puzzles are logical, and there is a good progression path, the hints aren't always clear about what they point to. Still, got a lot of love for this game, and the series in general, although I do have to check out Complete Uru when I get a chance. One of these days, I'm gonna have to do a tabletop or something in the Myst multiverse, because hot-drat, there's some serious weirdness going on there. And funnily enough, the parts of the series that people don't seem to get on with so much (3 onwards) are the parts that start showing that no, Atrus and his ilk are by no means the only folks dealing with Linking Books. And it was an odd multiverse to begin with. 
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Sep 25, 2016 07:12
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Entry 4 Ambient: Low hum While I've been sitting here I noticed something.  The door behind me had some kind of switch next to it. It didn't do anything when I turned it, but the rails on the sides suggested that this side would lift up.  I had also been able to do some thinking while I resting my legs.  I had seen these square symbols before, in the stained glass depiction of the wise men. The fellow with the compass.  The walkway curved a bit and went lower, from here I could also get a good look at the device in the center of the room. Five pipes radiating outwards from the center. Five blocks they were connected to.  Now what exactly all that meant I still have no idea, but this giant edifice is connected to something out there. But I can't see that from here, so its time for more exploring. ---  The walkway simply led to an exit on the other side of the dome, and I stepped outside into the sea air.   As well as another steam pipe switch.  This one had a symbol of a bridge on it, something about raising and lowering.  The bridge in question was pretty easy to see from where I stood.  I flipped the switch, stopping the steam from the top and sending a hissing sound up the pipe, but the bridge didn't move. Maybe there was a second step?  Curious, I walked back to get a better view. It looks like the bridge is a connection to another island. There was some impressive architectural work on display here. Either that or this thing twists apart in a light breeze.  But flipping the switch a couple times didn't do much else. I continued on the path. I did notice a dome up high, spinning constantly. A large pipe led directly to it. Was this one of those square symbols?  A strange square was in front of the door. Maybe there was a way up.  I mean, there were certainly rails, and a strange gap in the walkway above.  There was even something like a button! It was locked or something, and no amount of poking or prodding made anything move.  So no choice but onward.  Onward to... yet another bridge switch.  I checked to see where this pipe led. Another footbridge high above me, but one that was familiar. This path had been a long one around the outside of the dome. Was I looking at the bridge I walked across when I first entered?  Only one way to find out. I turned the steam switch on and retraced my steps.  It wasn't a short walk, but it gave me time to listen to the way the machinery here hummed and hissed. Steam power seemed to be a fixture around here.  I also noted another walkway on the other side of the dome. It looks like it could be extended from the other side. No good to me now, unfortunately. But back here, I could hear the clear hiss of steam and the rattle of shaking metal. That switch below had done something. I pulled the lever on the side.  And the bridge rose.  On my side, of course. With no way back to the gate room it was impossible for me to see what was above my very head. I lowered the bridge and walked through to the Gate Room. There was something else I wanted to check.  Ambient: Distant waves Steam power was important here. Every device I'd found so far worked in two parts. First, you had to direct steam to the device. Then you could operate the device itself from nearby.  But those bridge switches weren't the only ones I had found. There was another device in the gate room which redirected steam.  The sound of hissing steam and water from the unknown device meant that I might be able to use it now.  Before these switches and buttons didn't do anything, but if I was correct on how these worked...  Got it. The button on the right makes the whole contraption move up or down. The lever controls direction.  When the contraption was lowered, with the bottom nearly touching the ground, I took a peek at the glass. Dark. If I had to guess, I'd say this was a telescope. A telescope pointed down, for some reason.  I raised the telescope up and looked at the hatch. Pulling on it still did nothing, and neither did the buttons. Maybe it was a combination lock?  Nothing more to do there, but I had proven my hypothesis. If I ran into any more non-functional devices, I'd need to find a steam pipe to redirect power.  Now to see what was across the bridge from the gate room.  Soundtrack: Temple The cave beyond was a winding and rough cut affair, but here I was struck by a feeling that I was trespassing where I shouldn't.  The metal door, bolted into the rock of the cave, didn't make me feel any more welcome.  Nor did the ominous, caged chair beyond it.  I approached carefully, and as I entered the door clanged shut behind me. The bars around the chair lifted like spider legs. It looked like a drat nice chair. I felt a bit of a thrill as I climbed in.  For all the presentation, it was pretty comfortable. I figured I probably shouldn't take a load off here though. Beside, the lights from the ground were bright in my eyes. Fortunately, I had more buttons and switches to poke at!  The button on the right lowered the cage around me.  And the left switch activated something, filling the room with a static sound. I said a tentative "Hello?" and was rewarded with a reverb to my words. Some sort of amplifier? I decided not to stick around in case anyone came answering. But the blue and orange lights seemed interesting. I turned off the microphone and took a look.  The blue light on the right was some sort of viewer. Steps and rails showed it may just be that tram line I saw connecting the islands.  The other viewer depicted an orange room filled with pillars. I tried the switch on the left,  And the door to the room slowly opened. Definitely some sort of viewer, but where was this room?  Head full of theories, I made to exit. The spider like cage rattled as it lowered behind me and I stepped into the rough stone passage again.  The path seemed to wind at random, and the light was barely enough to keep from tripping over the uneven floor.  But eventually I came to a heavy, rough stone door, and through it.   Was a temple. The same room with pillars I had seen through the viewer.  Front and center was another spider like cage, and behind it a complex and beautiful stained glass window, with the five pointed star I had been seeing all over the island.  Checking behind me confirmed it, the door was open and this was definitely the same room I saw earlier.  Offering of fruit, good food lay scattered in front of depictions of strange, tusked beasts. I was feeling a bit peckish, and the fruit looked fresh. I took one of the green ones. Peeling it revealed citrus fruit flesh, but it tasted far less tart than an orange, more earthy. It was probably meant for Gehn and his lackeys. I reveled in my first strike against his oppressive rule and stepped outside.  And directly into the tram stop I had seen before. It may have been the snack, but the function of this room became clear. Supplicants would arrive by tram, carrying offerings. Gehn could watch, waiting at his room, and see as they came off the tram one by one. As the people lined up outside the temple, Gehn could flip a switch, and the door would open magically by itself, allowing the cowed worshipers to file into the room. There they would see the windows, and hear Gehn's voice echoing around the room, as Gehn watched from his comfortable seat. In the temple the locals would hear his word, leave their offerings, once their part was done, head back to the tram to return to their lives. I had found the wizard's curtain, but the wizard was nowhere to be seen.  Fortunately, I didn't see a ticket booth anywhere to use the tram.  I had an unparraleled view from this platform. Ahead of me was my next destination, a large island with plenty of tree cover.  To the right I could see two more. Nearby was the island that was connected by the long footbridge to the golden dome. Far in the distance I could see another island, with some sort of plateau on the far end. The oceans between were a tangle of twisting tram lines. Time to see these islands for myself. I pressed the glowing blue button by the stairs, and far in the distance I could see a small tram begin to make its way through the lines to me.  Soon it was pulling into the station.  The door opened automatically, and there didn't seem to be any driver. I was thankful for that, that could only have been an awkward conversation.  The tram was a bit cozy. It didn't seem like it could move more than a few people at a time. Controls were simple enough though.  The side switch could be pulled to rotate the tram around, moving with the whir of machinery and stopping with a jarring clunk.  Which left the center switch. I took hold of it, looked through the window, and pushed it forward. I may have muttered 'engage' to myself at the time.  And we were off.  The ride started pleasantly enough, but as soon as we were away from the station something engaged and I was thrown in my chair as the tram picked up speed.  The carriage rattled and shook, and the g-forces of the sharp turn threw me to the side of the tram.  Halfway through the tram hopped the rails for just a moment. I lost hold of the fruit I had taken from the temple and it started to ricochet around the controls, the windshield, and my person.  The whole ride probably only lasted ten seconds from start to finish but it was already making an impact.  The tram quickly decelerated as it reached the other side, sending me nearly face first into the control panel. It rattled to a stop, and I had to catch my breath as the door and stairs slowly lowered.  I stumbled out of the tram, grateful for solid land.  I've been sitting on the station steps, writing this entry and picking fruit bits out of my hair. I admit, I'm stalling. I've seen the way Gehn presents himself to his subjects. If those people took that to heart, I could very well be walking into danger. Gehn could have me hunted down, certainly. The only saving grace was that he would still be desperately hoping to get off this Age, and for that he would want me alive. But my dagger wielding savior was somewhere out there too. He, at least, seemed to stand against Gehn's power. He also had the trap linking book, the linchpin of Atrus' plan. There had been no sign of him at the previous island. Maybe there would be signs of him here.
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Sep 25, 2016 08:23
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That tram ride was really exciting for 14 year old me.
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Sep 25, 2016 08:47
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Thats a thing I noticed about the D'ni people, given enough time alone they will always gravitate towards making some kind of rollercoaster. Its genetic, probably.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:36
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Oh man, the tram rides get super sick later. There's some cool lore stuff with the water bits that I sort of remember a little bit.
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Sep 26, 2016 00:18
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I played this and Myst so drat much as a kid but never really got anywhere in either of them without a guide so this'll be interesting to see.
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Sep 26, 2016 08:46
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The Art Or, Reading Rainbow was more literal than you thought.  The central conceit, the focus of the Myst series is what they call the Art, or the writing of Linking Books. Putting words to paper and then being able to visit, in person, the place you just described. The important thing to remember, though, is that for the game devs, the Art as a concept is more of a tool than a science. The rules for the Art serve more to reflect the characters, and from game to game and novel to novel there have been little inconsistencies largely explained as, “This is what the devs/author thought would be interesting”. Not to say it’s a wild mess of ‘magic’ like, say, the Force, but it does tend to unravel a bit under close scrutiny. First, a little vocabulary. The Art: the practice of writing those wacky books that lead to other worlds, created by the D’ni civilization. Age: General label for a world/universe written in a book, e.g. Mechanical Age, Gehn’s Fifth Age, the Age of Releeshan Descriptive Book: The main book and starting point for writing an Age, generally thick and the subject of plenty of editing when writers want to screw with and/or fix worlds. Linking Book: Slimmer, easier to carry cliff notes versions of Descriptive Books. Basically enough details to specify an age to go to, but you can’t really edit worlds with them. Link/Linking: The process of traveling to an Age using Descriptive or Linking Books.  The basics of the process are pretty straightforward. You get some special paper and some special ink, and you describe a world in a special language. Write ‘island’, you’ll go to an island. Write ‘there are red flowers with yellow pistils growing in large fields’, and they’ll be there to. You generally want to add things like ‘contains atmosphere that’s about half inert gasses and a fair portion of oxygen’ unless you’re feeling adventurous and have appropriate gear. As you write, the picture at the front will change and alter according to your details. This is generally helpful for a spot check before visiting, as you’ll be able to see if everything is on fire or if there’s solid ground before you enter. Once finished, it’s generally time to visit. You do not, under any circumstances, forget a linking book to return home. You cannot get back without one, since it’s nearly impossible to write a good linking book without the descriptive book to reference. Another little quirk of the process is that the book you use to link is left behind. Anything you’re carrying or wearing travels with you, but the book itself will drop to the ground after you leave. If you don’t want people using the door after you, you generally should hold the book over a fire or something before linking. And, rather importantly, you can edit worlds after the fact. Atrus is doing it off screen throughout the game, just trying to keep Riven together. Or you can try something extravagant. The Age defining boat of Stoneship, growing out of the rocks of the island, was an attempt by Atrus to write a boat into the Age to help the locals.  A talented writer could even write in a giant dagger that plummets out of the sky at a precise time and location, causing much sound and fury that forever changes an Age.  It is, without a doubt, a powerful ability, and furthermore one that can be taught. But it’s not without its limitations. Certain care must be taken when writing and editing Ages. Lack of care while writing a Descriptive book can lead to an unstable age, and imprecise editing can create contradictions in an age, which can lead to disaster, and in bad situations, breaking the Link and causing the book to switch to a different but similar world. To wit, in the words of Myst Continuity guy Richard Watson (and a lot of thanks to oldskool for finding the quote) Richard Watson posted:Observation is the key to knowing whether an addition to a Book will be a change (further defining the current Age) or a contradiction (forcing a link to similar, but different Age). Quantum theory explains why all the Ages a writer can describe already exist (Atrus is right, Gehn is wrong), and tells why observation is so critical. It also shows that science fact is much stranger than science fiction. A summary of the events of Gehn’s 37th Age in the tie in novel, Book of Atrus might demonstrate this principle. --- When Atrus lived with Gehn and learned from him, Age 37 was the first inhabited age Atrus was allowed to visit. The 37th Age was another of Gehn’s attempts to restore the D’ni, again by declaring himself a God to the inhabitants and trying to reform them into a copy of the D’ni civilization. There was a problem though. The natives had previously revered a dense, entrapping fog that would surround the island on regular intervals, and Gehn, who had only been a god for a mere decade, couldn’t possibly compete. So Gehn, feeling piqued by the idea something might be revered over him, sits down with the descriptive book and writes “The seas are warm”. It works immediately, and Gehn takes Atrus with him to witness his immense power over every aspect of the Age. But Gehn’s ill-considered edit soon proves harmful. When Atrus and Gehn return, they discover the seas have dried up, leaving cracked sea beds that glow with fire from beneath. The rain has stopped entirely, and the inhabitants are becoming desperately short of water. Gehn is ready to simply discard the Age, but Atrus begs him to make an attempt at fixing it. Gehn sighs, takes out his pen, and writes “delete the previous” next to his last entry. But when Atrus goes back to visit, he finds something strange. The island is largely the same, and the plants are familiar. But the constructions, the changes and buildings Gehn made were gone entirely. Gehn’s final change had proven a bridge too far. The new Age the book linked to was another place entirely, one that had never known him or his son Atrus. Atrus returned and told Gehn of this development, and Gehn decided to burn the book, citing it as ‘defective’. Neither Atrus nor Gehn ever returned to the original 37th Age. --- Gehn writes unstable ages not because he is lazy, but because he is proud. His certainty that he is creating worlds means he doesn't see details of an Age that aren't in his own writing. His reverence of the D'ni leads him to lift phrases and terms wholesale from old Descriptive books and place them in his own. Atrus describes the process as taking a dozen masterful tapestries, hacking them to bits, and putting the pieces back together with no eye for design or composition. He writes in a horrific inversion of impressionism; each piece individually demonstrates mastery, but as a whole its an ungodly mess. And his unwillingness to admit that he, the last hope of the D'ni, might be seriously flawed, kept him from correcting his mistakes. Which isn't a new problem. Even at its most benign the Art offers incredible power to its practitioners, and Gehn was not the first nor the last to abuse it. One man used it to exert power over dozens of populations. A civilization could use it to become an empire that surpasses the wealth and power of any civilization you could name on Earth. And that civilization was the D'ni, which will be discussed in my next Lore post. See you then! M.c.P fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Sep 27, 2016 |
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Sep 26, 2016 13:53
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First, thanks for uploading the soundtrack to follow along with. Riven has amazing sound design, and it really sets the mood. Second, I never really followed any of the lore behind what was spelled out in the games, so your lore posts are super interesting to read.
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Sep 26, 2016 21:28
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This discussion of the Age creating mechanic is really interesting. It's very easy to gloss over a lot of the background details when you yourself are immersed in the game.
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Sep 26, 2016 22:38
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Another reason you're cut off from your original world if you don't bring a Linking Book with you - you can only write a Linking Book that links to your current location, as one of the novels made clear. The Descriptive Book acts as a link to a specific part of the Age, but then you have to travel to other places within the Age to create Linking Books to them.
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Sep 27, 2016 00:27
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I suppose in theory you could make another Descriptive Book if you strand yourself but that would be a Huge loving Pain.
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Sep 27, 2016 03:33
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I think the "you can change the age, but only a little bit" thing is a bit of a copout. I think it would have been more interesting for Gehn to be right about actually creating the ages, but that it's still morally wrong to act like a god to the inhabitants.
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Sep 27, 2016 03:35
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Dr. Buttass posted:I suppose in theory you could make another Descriptive Book if you strand yourself but that would be a Huge loving Pain. If you had the foresight to bring enough materials to use the Art, why didn't you just bring a Linking Book? I don't remember anything in any part of the series discussing the possibility of multiple Descriptive Books pointing to the same iteration of the same Age, but it seems like that wouldn't be possible, somehow. Didn't Gehn experiment with copying phrases from Descriptive Books and fail completely?
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Sep 27, 2016 03:53
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Fister Roboto posted:I think the "you can change the age, but only a little bit" thing is a bit of a copout. I think it would have been more interesting for Gehn to be right about actually creating the ages, but that it's still morally wrong to act like a god to the inhabitants. On the other hand you get a sense that the authors of the script and mythos wanted to stress the importance of scientific observation coupled with imagination that Atrus exemplifies. Speaking as a metaphor for, say, game development or writing novels, you can't possibly fill in every detail of a character or setting, and truly great writers must remain open to 'discovering' details of a setting they hadn't even considered when they started. Edit: Nidoking posted:I don't remember anything in any part of the series discussing the possibility of multiple Descriptive Books pointing to the same iteration of the same Age, but it seems like that wouldn't be possible, somehow. Didn't Gehn experiment with copying phrases from Descriptive Books and fail completely? I seem to remember Gehn trying to recreate destroyed books, and finding it impossible. It's certainly why Atrus was crushed when his sons burned his library. He knew those Ages were lost to him forever. M.c.P fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 27, 2016 |
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Sep 27, 2016 04:04
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Dr. Buttass posted:I suppose in theory you could make another Descriptive Book if you strand yourself but that would be a Huge loving Pain. The problem there is that Ink is a Proper Noun that is a bitch to obtain, especially now that there isn't an empire dedicated to mass producing it.
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Sep 27, 2016 04:07
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Nidoking posted:I don't remember anything in any part of the series discussing the possibility of multiple Descriptive Books pointing to the same iteration of the same Age, but it seems like that wouldn't be possible, somehow. Didn't Gehn experiment with copying phrases from Descriptive Books and fail completely?
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Oct 1, 2016 12:52
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Entry 5 It was time to get moving. I wasn’t going to figure out where Gehn was just sitting there.  Of course I didn’t get very far before noticing something.  Some sort of eye had been put into the wall next to the tram station. It looked like there was some kind of hinge on the sides. I tried turning it.  The eye rotated, revealing some kind of symbol on the other side. There was also a light chirping sound, sort of like a cricket. I glanced around, but didn’t see any moving stairs or secret passages. Turning the eye a couple more times didn’t do anything either.   With nothing more to go on, I continued away from the tram stop. The tunnel was wet and cool, with lights making the tunnel and its carved steps easy to navigate. This seemed like a well-used pathway.   There was another blue tram button at the other end of the tunnel. Some convenience there, being able to call the tram and have it waiting by the time you reach it. Beyond another flight of stairs led up and down.   I decided to continue upwards, thinking vaguely that a higher vantage point might help. A wooden rope bridge provided a way across a small canyon in the rocks.  And beyond the bridge was a clear cut area. Seeing this whole area cleared of trees… It caused me to think back on how barren this place was, how little greenery there was anywhere on the islands.  Exploring the area gave me a great view of the distant golden dome. I thought back to the images of trees being ground and turned into books. Somewhere the rest of the machinery was working away making… Making what, exactly? Atrus seemed confident that Gehn was trapped here. He had ensured every linking book off of Riven had been taken or destroyed. So what was the point of this destruction?  As I mused on this, I found a cart leading somewhere underground. Presumably how the logs were transported to wherever they were turned into wood pulp. I doubted it would be a pleasant experience for a person, so I left it be.  Instead I went back towards the door into the part of the forest still standing. The plants flanking the door looked like giant blades of grass. Possibly the only reason they hadn’t been cut down was because they wouldn’t work as fodder for paper.  I was about to walk through when I noticed something on the doorframe.  A familiar looking beetle was making its way up the wood.  When I bent down to take a closer look, it opened its wings and flew away with a clicking buzz. Just like the ones back in the Gate room. Local animals seem to features strongly in the images around here. Did that make the tusk whale in the temple a real creature? I wondered what kind of significance it has to the locals as I pressed forward into the forest.   Ambient: Birds and bugs The forest beyond immediately assaulted me with the sound of animals and insects everywhere. It was a massive departure from Atrus’ ages, which seemed so purposefully devoid of life. The change of pace was refreshing, though I could still see the vast ocean just beyond.   But even here, the path was carefully paved and well lit, practically a highway by local standards. Blue phosphorescent mushrooms dotted the forest, among ancient looking trees. Looking around I noticed another enormous blade, embedded in the stone. A dagger, just like before.  The forest floor was loamy and wet, but not impossible. I took a few steps forward, noticing a light emanating from where the blade met the stone.  It was another eye, like the one by the tram.  Exactly like it, in fact. But more interesting was the light. A tiny version of the dagger with a bright glowing marble in its handle. Did these eyes have something to do with that man?  Turning it revealed another symbol and a different sound. This one was some kind of… hoarse barking sound. These eyes had some meaning… but what?   It remained a mystery to me, so I continued. The path forked in the small tunnel and I went right, for no particular reason.   Soundtrack: Jungle Totem I was rewarded with a dead end… and another imposing presence.  The tusk whale again, just like the ones in the temple. But I doubted this was meant to be friendly. What was this statue for? It certainly made me feel uncomfortable just looking at it.  The whole place felt sinister, like a warning to stay away. I decided to heed it and take the other path.  The other side lead to a set of stairs, but a fiery glow from underneath gave me pause. I stepped forward and looked down.  The crack in the earth glowed angrily, and even as deep as it was I could feel the heat emanating from below. Were there more of these cracks in the earth around Riven? Was this the destruction Atrus was fighting against? As I stared a low rumble shook the ground around me. I kept going with renewed urgency.  Coming up the stairs took me to a small hole, and the immediate sound of an alarm. I peered upwards at the watchtower, but the man inside quickly ducked out of sight. Well, if I hadn’t been obvious enough before, people definitely knew I was here now. I stood around a bit, trying to listen for Gehn’s armies coming to descend upon me and steal me away. Nothing came. I kept moving.   To the left a set of stairs led back to familiar territory, the clear cut forest.   To the right, another cave, this one lit by blue lamps giving the cave a mysterious air.  Soundtrack: Village In the blue gloom I noticed some sort of painting. It was difficult to see in the light, blue ink on grey rock under blue light, but I thought I could make something out. A large man, underneath a five pointed star, drops two people into the mouths of fishes below.  That star… Gehn’s symbol. I wondered if the people being dropped was a story, or a metaphor, or something more concrete.   But just a little further was a lake, and in the distance, a village. I was rather struck by how, well, drab it looked. Mud domes clinging to the cliff side, connected by wooden ladders and platforms. Nothing like the brick and stone constructions of the temple.  Then I noticed the commotion all around the village. Hard to make out from this distance, but everyone appeared to be rushing back indoors at the sight of me. A woman nearly ran up to a child sitting on the walkway and urged him inside. I stood where I was during all this. They were already afraid of me, apparently. No reason to add desperate fear to the mix.   After all the villagers had time to hide, I pressed forward. The lake shimmered in the bright sun, though as I walked something about the surface seemed odd.  Coming to a larger platform, I noticed a telescope peering at me from a rock. I waved at it, but it remained still. Maybe I was lucky and no one was on the other end. But the water by the ladder looked strange. I approached and looked down into the water.  I looked down straight into the lake bed. The water surrounding it shimmered and rippled like a placid pond. There was a hole in the water.  There were holes in the lake all over the place. I spend a long time staring at the sheer impossibility in front of me. Fish swam by, their bodies distorted by the ripples of water in the wall in front of me. I reached my hand out, and it slipped into the upright with no resistance. The water was cool, no different than any other example I’ve imbibed, on Earth or in any of Atrus’ Ages. There was an uncomfortable warmth coming from the plate below, but that hardly explained what I was looking at.   I stood up slowly and kept walking, silently promising myself that, even if I could swim, I certainly wasn’t going to try it here.   Climbing up the ladders to the village was a little perilous. I couldn’t imagine raising children here, certainly, but the ladders were tied down.  When I reached the top, I took a look around.  The village was a ghost town, doors and windows locked shut tight and not a sound to be heard anywhere.  I did have a great view of the lake from here though. Across the way I could see a large, cage like tower adorned with… bones? It was hard to tell from here, and I was hardly a paleontologist to begin with. On the right I noticed some sort of metal vehicle. I mean, it had wheels, at least. It seemed supremely out of place next to the clay and wood huts of the village.  I turned to a nearby home and peered at the door. More stars, but this one looked like a knocker. I rapped on the door several times.  Against my expectations, someone answered! I was shocked, but tried to stammer out, “Uh… Hello! I’m a friend! What’s that metal thing over there?” She shut the little window quickly. I don’t blame her, I doubt I’d help me either.  I’m finishing up this entry in the village, looking over the lake below. From here I think I can see some sort of tracks below the water. Maybe it has something to do with that vehicle nearby. As I sit a baby is crying from one of the further homes, coupled with frantic whispering. I’m going to get moving soon, I feel like I’m causing stress just being here.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:09
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Tiggum posted:Surely if you copied the original book word for word, it would link to the same place as it would (in effect) just be an extremely verbose linking book? You'd then have problems if you wrote contradictory things in the two books though, I guess. That, or a different iteration of the Age that's identical in every respect written in the Book, but still distinct.
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Oct 1, 2016 13:40
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JamieTheD posted:Aahh, much love to Riven, whose sprawling complexity actually gave it the reputation (And rightly so) of being the hardest in the whole series. After all, it is one big area, and, as others have pointed out, while the puzzles are logical, and there is a good progression path, the hints aren't always clear about what they point to. Still, got a lot of love for this game, and the series in general, although I do have to check out Complete Uru when I get a chance. There is an official MYST RPG called Unwritten that uses the FATE game engine as its basis, if that floats your boat (or jams it into a giant rocky island, either way).
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Oct 1, 2016 18:13
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That cave with the blue lights is one of my favorite places in any game. The music that plays in there gives me the chills.
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Oct 3, 2016 00:52
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Sorry for the delay everyone, Work got crazy, but I'm working on another update now.
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Oct 13, 2016 01:44
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JamieTheD posted:Aahh, much love to Riven, whose sprawling complexity actually gave it the reputation (And rightly so) of being the hardest in the whole series. After all, it is one big area, and, as others have pointed out, while the puzzles are logical, and there is a good progression path, the hints aren't always clear about what they point to. Still, got a lot of love for this game, and the series in general, although I do have to check out Complete Uru when I get a chance. I hated Riven as a kid for this reason. I spent all of my time looking for the puzzles, not realizing that navigating the place WAS the puzzles, so it felt like a big world of nothing. Obduction has the same thing going on, but fortunately I went into that game older and aware of it. Exile and Revelations stepped back to the "this is a puzzle" side of things.
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Oct 13, 2016 02:31
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Entry 6 Ambient: lapping water I admit I spent more time than I should have playing with the water. It seemed to respond to body heat slowly, such that if you dip your hand in the water would slowly bend out of the way, making a divot in the lake. Even if I could swim, I wasn’t sure it was even possible here. Strange physics, certainly  But I had a trap book to recover, and a megalomaniacal cult leader somewhere out there. I went back up the ladder to explore more of the village.  A narrow wooden walkway led around to the metal contraption I saw before. From the wheels and the shape, it looked sort of like a bathysphere.  It looked a little out of place among the wooden walkways and mud huts. Definitely a vehicle though. The short ladder led to a small hatch from which one could enter. The lever beckoned, and I gave it a test pull.  The metal device neatly lowered itself.  I peered over the edge and saw the vehicle had been lowered onto the rails underneath the lake. So this was the vehicle for getting around! But diving after it didn’t seem like a wonderful idea from this height, and that’s even if I hit the water.  Curious, I began to look around this little rocky outcrop. It looked like there was another wooden platform by the far rock cliff. I didn’t see any way over there though.   I took a closer look at the gold things. More of those tusk whale things, and drums besides. It looked like an altar, but thankfully devoid of that gaunt figure that was probably Gehn.  There was also an oven, with wood ready to feed the fire.  Something was being cooked. It was wrapped up in a cloth but smelled a bit like fish. It looked good but I decided against waiting until it was done and stealing some poor local’s lunch. The fruit would tide me over for now.  But this was another dead end. No other pathways or anything to see. Options exhausted, I walked back to the other half of the island. There was still a path I hadn’t been down.  The walk was quiet, eerily so. It struck me that so much of Riven was barren rock, with green plants clinging to the cliffs in protected spaces.  The village had been nestled on a cliff side, but I hadn’t seen anything resembling a farm. I suppose that small jungle was carefully cultivated for fruit. But so much of it had been clear cut.  But I had returned to the stairs, and the other path I had missed earlier. And ahead, what looked like the beach.  Ambient: Ocean waves But as I continued, I noticed something ahead. Wildlife!  Two large animals were sunning themselves on the rock. They had bodies like seals, but with long protruding beaks or snouts. I began to slow down as I got closer to them. They seemed to respond with every step I took.  Unfortunately I was so engrossed that I missed a step, causing a clatter as I kicked a couple loose stones. With a short grunt both the beak seals slipped into the water and swam off into the ocean.  Well, at least I had this little lagoon to myself now. The water was crystal clear and quite beautiful. I took a stroll around the beach, wondering if the water here was just as strange as the lake water.  But from the other side of the lagoon, I noticed the rock formation looked a bit familiar. It looked like, well, yet another tusk whale. A small sandbar meant I didn’t have to get my shoes soaked as I took a closer look.  And here was yet another eye, embedded in the rock.  Spinning this one revealed another symbol and emitted another sound. A keening, echoing call that sounded like a whale itself. Were these creatures… real? Moreover, what in the world were these eyes supposed to represent?  Not feeling very relaxed and a bit uncomfortable around another tusk whale I went back to the path and continued following it.   It led through a long and winding cave, but it still felt well-traveled.   And on the other side, I found myself at the lake once more. This was the walkway I saw earlier! I had circled around the island. Hopefully this wouldn’t be another dead end.  Down the ladder ahead was a small basin. It looked like something for the village.   A water basin, by all appearances. And yet another eye embedded in the stone.  Spinning this one revealed another symbol… but the sound, a clicking buzz, was familiar somehow. I noticed there was a spigot in the basin, and a handle next to me. Curious, I gave it a turn.  Water began to pour out of the faucet, filling the basin partway. I paused. The way the water was shaped, it looked just like… A beetle. That was why the buzzing sound was familiar, it was the same sound that beetle made when it flew off. I flipped through this journal. Each eye had a sound and a symbol. The rocks on the beach and how they looked like a tusk whale… the animalistic noises from the other ones. Someone was leaving some sort of clue around this island. But for what?  Lost in thought I started playing with the water here as well. The water in this basin didn’t react to body heat like the lake water. Feeling a bit dry after circumnavigating the island, I took a sip and continued on. It was a bit flat, but refreshing nonetheless. Beyond the basin was a ladder, leading down.  It’s a good thing heights don’t bother me too much. I clambered down onto the walkway, just above water level.   Just around the corner was a cave, and the vehicle I had lowered earlier. I reflected on the fact that if the sub had been raised, I would have to go around the entire island to get it in place. I suppose the villagers probably shouted up until someone pulled the lever to get them to shut up.  I climbed down into the mini sub and closed the hatch after me. Through the window I could see the wavering wall of water that this sub was comfortably nestled inside. The controls weren’t exactly labeled, so it was experiment time. I started with the large handle to the side.  And the sub lurched into life, plunging into the water and continuing on the rail tracks across the lake bed. Eventually it came to a junction and stopped.  The center handle rotated the sub around, and the sliding handle below that seemed to pick what route to take if there was a split. I got the sub turned around and took a route I hadn’t been to before.  When I popped open the hatch and looked out though, I realized that I was still stuck. The ladder was retracted and I didn’t really relish stepping into the water wall or trying to jump from the top of the bathysphere.  I took a look around and noticed the familiar telescope in the rock. I had made my way to the platform right below the village, so if I needed to go back there I wouldn’t have to walk around the island again. Well, if I got the ladder extended anyway.  I went back inside using the admittedly clunky levers and controls to explore the rest of the lake… But nearly every place I visited had its ladder retracted.  Except one, on the other side of the lake from where I started.  Thankful for some new scenery I climbed out of the mini sub and took a look around. There was the village on the far side of the lake. It would be picturesque, but the gaping holes in the lake surface marred the image a little.  The lake wasn’t honestly that big, though the tiny porthole and rough controls made it a bit hard to get a good idea of the area. Most of it was locked off though, except here.  And it was looking like another long climb for me.   When I made it to the top I was greeted by a row of switches and a window.  Glancing through the window revealed an excellent view of the lake, and all the holes in the water.  Having nothing else to do up here I flipped a few switches at random. No sounds, no secret doors opening, no rumble of stone on stone. Frowning I looked around and out the window again.  At first I didn’t notice anything. But something seemed different about the nearby tower… The ladder had been extended!  I turned around and used both arms to move all the switches up.  I checked back at the window, and, from what I could tell, all the ladders had been extended. The lake stops have been opened up to me, and hopefully I wouldn’t run into anyone else seeing what else was around. Maybe I could find someone who could tell me where in the world Gehn is. Or where Catherine is. Atrus’ small journal sits heavy in my pocket. I’m still utterly lost in this Age, and don’t feel any closer to my goal. Nothing to do but keep exploring for now.
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Oct 13, 2016 03:21
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Bruceski posted:I hated Riven as a kid for this reason. I spent all of my time looking for the puzzles, not realizing that navigating the place WAS the puzzles, so it felt like a big world of nothing. Obduction has the same thing going on, but fortunately I went into that game older and aware of it. Exile and Revelations stepped back to the "this is a puzzle" side of things. Douglas Adams once described the original Myst as a "beautiful void" for its attractive visuals and absolute dearth of meaningful human interaction. Riven kind of has the same thing going on, despite technically having more people and more scenes interacting with them, but the setting is better at implying that this is a place where people actually live and do poo poo, as opposed to just being set dressing for the puzzles. It's got a different effect, psychologically. Myst is empty, possibly oppressively so depending on your particular cocktail of neuroses, but it also kinda feels like it's supposed to be empty, like it would actually be kind of weird to think people actually spent significant amounts of time there, on purpose, doing anything aside from what you do there. Riven feels like a place where there should be people; there just aren't. Like, sure, occasionally you run into a little kid that stares at you and then runs off, but for the most part you're on your own. There's a ghostly sort of feeling to it I don't 100% care for. Like, as a crazy person, not as a consumer of video games; I'm not good at isolation and Riven flips some of those switches.
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Oct 15, 2016 07:43
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I loved the Myst series for reasons I can't properly define. I loved the artwork and the ambience, but I hated the puzzles - specifically the ones that required memorising (or writing down!) long sequences of interlinked shapes, symbols and sounds. I think the sounds were the worst for me - that drat spaceship puzzle in the selenitic age with the four sounds indicating directions was a nightmare for me. But after all that, I loved it - so I'm really enjoying this LP thus far. Now I've got to trawl the archives to se if anybody LP'd the later games in the series!
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Oct 16, 2016 14:20
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hm, 29 posts on this page... Let's get a discussion going. Riven's narrative design is one of presenting formerly occupied spaces and having the player infer their purposes. For example, the purpose of the spider sofa and its connection to the grand temple is one that has to be inferred from context. The cameras, the fact that the door is carefully tucked away in a corner, the switch to open the temple gate from the hidden observation room, the appearance of those spidery cages in both rooms... But no one in this game holds your hand through those inferences. The villagers don't even speak to you, much less note the differences between the opulent temple and the barren mud village. If you don't give Atrus' journal a careful read, you might not even realize the big book that guard took from you at the start of the game was utterly vital to your mission. If you aren't keeping a close eye out for symbols, you might not realize how the daggers we've been finding relate to that masked figure that saved you and took the book himself. Is that effective though? Of all the people who posted in this thread, one poster and a mother-son team beat the game without a guide. The rest used a guide (like me!) or simply gave up. On the other hand, those of us who used guides still remember the game fondly. Is the challenge of the puzzles an important part of the series, or does having the intellectual part taken care of so we can appreciate the narrative an equally valid way to appreciate Riven? I'd just add, in a place where the observational puzzles and a few inferences are taken care of for us in a guide, this game would most closely resemble games like Gone Home, Everyone's Gone to the Rapture, and other indy 'walking simulators' If you would be so kind, please civilly discuss the topic for about 10 posts so we can get a new page.
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Oct 16, 2016 15:52
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Of all of the Myst games I've played, I think Riven feels least like a game, and the most like a world that happened to exist and then a game happened in it. Myst had pages hidden in individual worlds where the exits were hidden behind puzzles. Exile comes right out and tells you that its worlds are designed as tests. Revelation had prison worlds with exits created by the prisoners. Riven has a couple of puzzles that were designed as puzzles, but for the most part, it's all a matter of figuring out how the mechanisms already in the world work and how to use them to get around. Granted, the individual worlds in Myst worked that way as well, but the collection was the central conceit. One of the first things you probably do in that game is learn about the pages and what they're used for. So far, we've only seen one analogue to the collectible pages, the eye spheres, and we don't yet know what the purpose of them is or what to do with the information they give us. Likewise, Exile almost immediately tells you what to collect and what to do with it, and Revelation dumps a bunch of plot on you at the start and then tells you approximately how to proceed. There's not really much to "collect" in that one, but it's information gathering that leads to a specific endgame. We don't yet know much of that in Riven, and that's interesting to me. It was also a big source of frustration, since I could explore vast portions of the world, but without knowing what I was supposed to be doing, I had no idea which part of the world I was supposed to be searching in or what information I needed to gather. Of course, the thing that actually stumped me was embarrassingly simple, but that's true of every game I played back then.
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Oct 16, 2016 16:44
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M.c.P posted:Is that effective though? Of all the people who posted in this thread, one poster and a mother-son team beat the game without a guide. The rest used a guide (like me!) or simply gave up. Can y'all define "used a guide"? I get the sense folks use the phrase for everything from "got stumped exactly once and had to look up a hint" to "my Prima guide is a recipe book for unlocking all the pretty pictures". I love the Myst series and try my utmost to beat the games without looking up hints/solutions. Beat Myst without one; just completed Obduction without one. Pretty sure I didn't need (m)any hints in the other games. But Riven had at least a handful of spots - maybe even low double digits? it's been ages - where I was wholly stumped and had to look up a hint. One in particular (the switch to open the wahrk effigy's mouth in the glade, to access the upper walkways) was in retrospect some grade-A pixel-hunting bullshit, so I didn't feel bad about having to look it up. Others, I felt pretty stupid after I found out the secret - I hadn't thought outside the box hard enough (that frickin' door in one of the passageways that completely closes off another passage when you open it the first time). To actually answer the question, though - even though I personally enjoy the puzzles, I think the "ends justify the means" approach is still totally valid, because the beautiful otherworldly environments are at least 50% of why these games are great, if not moreso. bitprophet fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 19:45
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I needed exactly two hints to get through Riven, both of them for relatively silly stuff, so it's definitely not impossible to beat it fair. I tried my hardest to avoid looking for help in all of the Myst games, mostly because I trusted the puzzles to be logical and it's usually not too tedious to try different solutions. I only went full guide with Path of the Shell, which to me means "i'm so hopelessly clueless that a simple hint ain't gonna do it". Guides or not, I think at least in the case of Riven the environment is just so detailed and interesting to wander through that "skipping" puzzles shouldn't hamper the enjoyment too much. Different is something like Myst 3, where most of the appeal is in the rewards for solving the puzzles, and rewards aren't as satisfying if one hasn't truly earned them. bitprophet posted:One in particular (the switch to open the wahrk effigy's mouth in the glade, to access the upper walkways) was in retrospect some grade-A pixel-hunting bullshit, so I didn't feel bad about having to look it up.
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Oct 16, 2016 20:31
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I played this game a few years back. There were some obnoxious puzzles, but I don't remember if I used a hint or not. But probably not.
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Oct 16, 2016 21:07
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bitprophet posted:One in particular (the switch to open the wahrk effigy's mouth in the glade, to access the upper walkways) was in retrospect some grade-A pixel-hunting bullshit, so I didn't feel bad about having to look it up. Others, I felt pretty stupid after I found out the secret - I hadn't thought outside the box hard enough (that frickin' door in one of the passageways that completely closes off another passage when you open it the first time). I think those were the exact same two I had to look online to figure out. That passage way to the eye dome behind the open door is weird because it's more of a puzzle of understanding the game's mechanics than it is about piecing together stuff about the plot.
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Oct 16, 2016 21:19
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When I was introduced to Riven, it was by a friend who first played it with his brother. He presented it as a game where you had to pay attention to EVERYTHING in detail. When we actually played it, I remember thinking he might have overblown it. Reading this, I see there was a hell of a lot of detail I didn't pick up on, or didn't realize I picked up on, like pieces of the culture of Riven. My friend and I mostly stumbled through the game, I think. We made it all the way up to one certain puzzle, but I can't remember if we stopped there or used a walkthrough at that point. I remember most of the events and puzzles, but can't remember the progression. Still, I enjoyed my time with the game. It was fascinating to walk through this strange, mostly empty land, seeing all there was. I had known about, but never played Myst, so this kind of game was a new experience for me.
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Oct 16, 2016 21:23
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I may be remembering this wrong, but another thing about the puzzles in the original Myst vs. this game is that things were much more compartmentalized in Myst. With one exception I can think of, everything you needed to "solve" an Age was in that Age, and the puzzles on Myst island all had their answers there if you looked hard enough. Here however, there a number of instances where info from one island is needed in order to figure out something on another island, so it's less obvious when and how something is important when there's nothing in the immediate area that makes it relevant.
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Oct 16, 2016 22:03
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C-Euro posted:I may be remembering this wrong, but another thing about the puzzles in the original Myst vs. this game is that things were much more compartmentalized in Myst. With one exception I can think of, everything you needed to "solve" an Age was in that Age, and the puzzles on Myst island all had their answers there if you looked hard enough. Here however, there a number of instances where info from one island is needed in order to figure out something on another island, so it's less obvious when and how something is important when there's nothing in the immediate area that makes it relevant. Yeah that's what got me and my brother. You find the animal orbs with symbols, well don't bother looking nearby, you'll find the symbols eventually. Same for the other big puzzles, you find this thing that says "use me", look all around the area for some hint what you're supposed to do with it, finally resort to looking online and the guides just give you the answer instead of "you're not gonna find the other parts for this until the last island" or any sort of intermediate hint.
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Oct 16, 2016 22:21
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Riven just has a different kind of puzzle than what people normally think of as a "puzzle"; situations where even perceiving what the puzzle is is part of the puzzle. It's a big interconnected series of things, and the game gives you one end (some kind of input panel) and expects you to see the other, and all the layers in between, and how they connect. I'll justify this summary a bit more when we've seen the first of Riven's signature puzzles. (Funfact: I was going to name The Witness as kind of a counterexample in puzzle presentation but thought it wasn't necessary. However, The Witness contains a video of an excellent lecture by Richard Feynman about perceiving and understanding hierarchies of things) Fedule fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Oct 16, 2016 |
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Oct 16, 2016 23:06
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C-Euro posted:I may be remembering this wrong, but another thing about the puzzles in the original Myst vs. this game is that things were much more compartmentalized in Myst. With one exception I can think of, everything you needed to "solve" an Age was in that Age, and the puzzles on Myst island all had their answers there if you looked hard enough. Here however, there a number of instances where info from one island is needed in order to figure out something on another island, so it's less obvious when and how something is important when there's nothing in the immediate area that makes it relevant. That's a little bit what I was trying to get at; of the Myst series games I've played, Riven is the only one that doesn't have that feeling of "this was designed to be a puzzle first and foremost." Kinda like Nidoking said; this here is a world that just happens to have some puzzles in it. Probably, to the locals, none of these puzzles even are puzzles, any more so than getting lunch would be for you or I. You go down Clay Street, turn right on Third, bang on a gong until Mrs. Calloway gets sick of listening to you and lets down the elevator (If Mrs. Calloway is out you need to pop down to Lovejoy and Sixth and get Relph Cramden's cherry-picker truck), hop the gap over the alley, and a BLT with avocado is in your hands. poo poo is just a fact of life and how you get poo poo done; the road to the deli's been out for months and it's easier than going to the top of the mesa and riding the service winch they use to supply it, so harassing Mrs. Calloway it is. In Riven we're doing pretty much the same thing, but first we need to teach ourselves to read the street signs, learn that the deli is on top of a three-story cliff with no other point of access, learn who Mrs. Calloway is and where she lives, and that we can make off with that cherry-picker truck we saw a few blocks away if Mrs. Calloway won't cooperate (and that we'd better get the truck back before Relph notices), with no help from anyone because they're afraid of us and hide until we leave. This both makes Riven a way better game and story than the others, but not such a great sequel. The other Myst games feel like they're designed as puzzles to begin with, and like Nidoking says, it's right there in the lore that the Ages in Exile explicitly are. These aren't places where you go to get a sandwich or have your tonsils examined, these are places where you go to test your brainmeats. Riven is a better game (if more frustrating) because the puzzles just sort of arise naturally out of not being local and having any clue about the weird idiosyncrasies of the community, so you don't have everything neatly in the exact place where you need it; sometimes the puzzle is, itself, that what you need isn't where you need it because someone else needed it elsewhere. But it doesn't really set you up to think about the puzzles in a different way; which is bad because it's subtitle or tagline or whatever is "the sequel to Myst," so if you're coming to it because you enjoyed Myst its just set you up to think about it in the same way. Dr. Buttass fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 00:19
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