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happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup
Pillbug

Who What Now posted:

I'm reasonably sure fried chicken was a food for poor blacks who didn't exactly get the best chickens, usually being scrawny and gamey. That's why there's the stereotype of black people loving watermelon and friend chicken, it was the food of the poor.

Watermelons were actually a symbol of freedom, as this was the first thing they were allowed to grow once slavery ended.
But then it got twisted and used as an insult.


As for nudity, the one thing I loved about the graphic novel Transmetropolitan was how in 2300 or whatever kids show on TV even have full on sex and nudity.
Showing how society has progressed.

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TheImmigrant
Jan 18, 2011

Thesaurasaurus posted:

I'm saying that what we think of when we discuss "Southern Cuisine" usually means dishes that originated as white planter comfort foods (biscuits, gravy, fried chicken, pork and related meats, BBQ, cane sugar, high-fat dairy products, etc) but which became far more available and widespread with the advent of industrialized farming. A more-comprehensive definition would include greens, beans, rice, corn, catfish and crawfish, fruits and nuts, and so forth.


This is true though. To be clear, I wasn't blaming modern American obesity on Southern cuisine, merely explaining where "Southern Cuisine's" association with being fat and sedentary comes from (pre-war plantation owners, who were often fat and sedentary, but for different socioeconomic reasons than modern-day people who are fat and sedentary, and also largely poor).

I think suburban lifestyle and especially suburban urban planning have a lot to do with it too. Australia recently passed the US in prevalence of obesity, and Australia is also a largely suburban nation. Most suburbs are designed for cars, not people. I spent a couple of months in a Dallas suburb last year for work - they didn't even have sidewalks there. People would look at you like you're crazy if you were walking anywhere.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Admiral Bosch posted:

what's more curious is that this is completely untrue in the american military, at least in the (generally really homoerotic) marine corps

since group showers are a thing in boot camp, you stop giving a gently caress pretty quick, particularly if during some exercise later on you end up staying in a squad bay environment. it's just not that big a deal

It would be the same if people were told they have to shower after gym class, though. I was uptight about it until I was in a situation where it was normal and necessary, and then I didn't give a gently caress after the first time or two. In a locker room or group shower, you're dealing with people who are packing the same equipment you are, so who gives a gently caress? Even in a coed situation, does it really matter? You should be able to see naked people of the gender you're attracted to without sexualizing it. And if someone is being a disgusting creepy gently caress about things, they need to be taught to not be that way, instead of pretending the problem is fixed if we simply remove the opportunity to be creepy.

Edit: on diet: of course black people love fried chicken! It's delicious, who wouldn't love It? If you don't love fried chicken, you're objectively incorrect, regardless of skin colour.

PT6A fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Sep 25, 2016

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




I remember showering communally and changing in front of other men in high school. It wasn't a big deal. I swam and wrestled and had phys ed classes. It was abnormal for it to be a problem. My experience at the military academy was different in the other direction. Six cadets pissing in one toilet simultaneously. Fold up uniforms, hold them above your head a march around the showers once for a shower in indoctrination. It's a big drat country, this stuff varies widely regionally.

Flannelette
Jan 17, 2010



The stealth :godwin: of maps.
Is one of the sources an image board I can't read it?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Honestly, if you need a look at how hosed up North Americans can be regarding nudity, just look at urinal behaviour. I'm okay with the "don't take a urinal next to someone if there's another option," but a lot of guys will lean into the urinal to the point where they must be getting splattered with splashback, all to avoid the possibility that someone, if they were trying to look, would see their penis. It's bizarre; just stand up straight in front of the urinal and take a piss, for gently caress sake, don't lean in to the urinal. No one is that interested in your cock!

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005
How can Andalusian ladies get marked down like three steps from the rest of southern Europe?

Edit: Dude hates the kurds too, wtf.

Ceiling fan
Dec 26, 2003

I really like ceilings.
Dead Man’s Band

PT6A posted:

Honestly, if you need a look at how hosed up North Americans can be regarding nudity, just look at urinal behaviour. I'm okay with the "don't take a urinal next to someone if there's another option," but a lot of guys will lean into the urinal to the point where they must be getting splattered with splashback, all to avoid the possibility that someone, if they were trying to look, would see their penis. It's bizarre; just stand up straight in front of the urinal and take a piss, for gently caress sake, don't lean in to the urinal. No one is that interested in your cock!

drat dude. You've got one hell of a PC muscle if you can maintain a steady, consistent pressure regardless of how full or empty your bladder is. Kudos to you. You are truly an inspiration for those of us who need to perform better in the bathroom.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
If you need to lean in to the urinal to the point where you're basically touching the sides of the urinal, to maintain a piss-stream that will reach the urinal, I advise consulting a physician at your earliest convenience.

Urinals stick out at the bottom, in the middle. If your bellend is above porcelain, you don't need to lean in any further.

Also, personally, if I'm worried about hitting the urinal or toilet bowl, I move my dick toward the receptacle, not my entire body. I don't want pissdrops all over me, but I suppose that's a personal choice.

german porn enthusiast
Dec 29, 2015

by exmarx

Mantis42 posted:

Who the gently caress wants to see a bunch of wangs everywhere? Euopeans are a degenerate people.

E: I don't even like taking my shirt off infront of people.

i like wangs.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Thesaurasaurus posted:

I'm saying that what we think of when we discuss "Southern Cuisine" usually means dishes that originated as white planter comfort foods (biscuits, gravy, fried chicken, pork and related meats, BBQ, cane sugar, high-fat dairy products, etc) but which became far more available and widespread with the advent of industrialized farming. A more-comprehensive definition would include greens, beans, rice, corn, catfish and crawfish, fruits and nuts, and so forth.


I'm pretty sure white farmers were very poor.

And I know that my great grandmother (who died at 104 and grew up with people who had fought in the civil war) ate biscuits, gravy, and fried chicken.

Hell, those things are super cheap to make.

Do you have any evidence that those food items were only for rich people until recently?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
Wangs are a part of the human body, as are boobs and vaginas. If you can't see them without being disgusted or sexualizing them, the problem is yours and yours alone.

Presto
Nov 22, 2002

Keep calm and Harry on.
Based on the number of hairy naked fat guys wandering around the locker room at my gym I'm not sure your premise is accurate OP.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

by Azathoth

PT6A posted:

Wangs are a part of the human body, as are boobs and vaginas. If you can't see them without being disgusted or sexualizing them, the problem is yours and yours alone.

Whatever you say, Olmec.

Thesaurasaurus
Feb 15, 2010

"Send in Boxbot!"

spacetoaster posted:

I'm pretty sure white farmers were very poor.

And I know that my great grandmother (who died at 104 and grew up with people who had fought in the civil war) ate biscuits, gravy, and fried chicken.

Hell, those things are super cheap to make.

Do you have any evidence that those food items were only for rich people until recently?

Hmm, I did some more searching, and apparently I had it backwards. Planter cuisine was basically determined by slave cuisine, since slaves did virtually all the cooking, but cooking for the plantation owners meant access to fancier ingredients and in huge quantities. Also the planters could cherry-pick their preferred dishes to get made over and over, but apparently PT6A had the right of it, obesity came down to huge portions and sedentary lifestyles. Then factory farming and fast food came along and made the cheapest, calorie-densest of these foods ubiquitous and synonymous with "Southern Cuisine" in the public eye, and here we are, so hey, I learned something today.

On the actual topic of the thread, no idea.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

PT6A posted:

Wangs are a part of the human body, as are boobs and vaginas. If you can't see them without being disgusted or sexualizing them, the problem is yours and yours alone.

I don't even want to see people's armpits.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

woke wedding drone posted:

I don't even want to see people's armpits.

Yep. And can you imagine how much grosser public seating would be if people didn't have to wear pants?

AARO
Mar 9, 2005

by Lowtax

Presto posted:

Based on the number of hairy naked fat guys wandering around the locker room at my gym I'm not sure your premise is accurate OP.

Most of them are much older though. Those guys grew up before the cultural change and hysteria regarding nudity. They are therefore not effected by the current weird climate in America today.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Mantis42 posted:

You're really fixated on kids being exposed to nudity.
I'm just pointing out that putting nudity and sex in shows that already feature adult matters (death and taxes) is still a step away from featuring nudity in public spaces, in the form of advertisements or real life naked people, which you can only really shield yourself (or your kids) from by staying at home.

Volcott
Mar 30, 2010

People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.
Seeing a titty will make Timmy grow up to be Patrick Bateman.

Ivan Shitskin
Nov 29, 2002

  • The average American woman is 5'5" tall and weighs 163 pounds.
  • The average American female model is 5'11" and weighs 117 pounds.
  • Most fashion models are thinner than 98% of American women.
  • On any given day, almost half of American women are dieting.
  • Four out of five American women report they are dissatisfied with their appearance.
  • Most marketers of female apparel design their clothes as if they will be worn exclusively by models, with their abnormal dimensions, rather than typical female consumers possessing normal dimensions.

People constantly judge each other based on appearance so it's not like there's no reason for it. I had an overweight ex-girlfriend who had people yell poo poo like "fatty!" out the windows of their cars as they drove by. And just look at this forum. People on this forum constantly mock random people for their appearance.

It's a combination of the extreme anxiety Americans feel about their own bodies, and the lingering religiosity America has always had. Men give less of a poo poo, but it's still there.

I had a conversation once with the chair of the art department at a college I used to go to. They do nude figure drawing classes there, and the best drawings are typically posted up in the hallway display cases. He told me that they frequently get complaints about the nude drawings in the hallway, and not everyone is comfortable with nude models being hired by the school (this is in Texas). It's bizarre to me. This is probably more because of a religious thing, protecting the children, etc.

On the other hand, I visited a clothing-optional hot springs resort in California once, with most of the people fully nude at the various pools, not giving a poo poo. I was uncomfortable being completely nude myself but got over it quickly. Whenever I told other people back home about this trip, they almost always seemed surprised or outright uncomfortable about the idea of a place like that, and when I asked why or if they would go nude themselves at a place like that, they always said no loving way, but it was always because of body image issues and no other reason. It was the same reason for me honestly.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice
The human body is disgusting and Americans are one of the few enlightened civilizations to know this. :911:

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

TheImmigrant posted:

I think suburban lifestyle and especially suburban urban planning have a lot to do with it too. Australia recently passed the US in prevalence of obesity, and Australia is also a largely suburban nation. Most suburbs are designed for cars, not people. I spent a couple of months in a Dallas suburb last year for work - they didn't even have sidewalks there. People would look at you like you're crazy if you were walking anywhere.
Yes, part of the issue is driving everywhere, rather than walking/biking (and using transit usually involves walking too). If we want people to exercise more it's gonna be built-in into the environment, few people have the self-discipline to go to the gym/go running consistently for the long term.

If you look at places with relatively low driving rates/high active transport rates like the Netherlands, obesity rates are relatively low for an affluent developed country.

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

The human body is disgusting and Americans are one of the few enlightened civilizations to know this. :911:

Female bodies are the bee's knees, very well designed. Not a great fan of male bodies though. It's not like they are disgusting or anything, but they are aesthetically not as pleasing and there is all kinds of weird poo poo going on like all that hair on the butt, the useless nipples or the huge wrinkly ballsack just hanging around like a spoiled dried out fruit.

Volcott
Mar 30, 2010

People paying American dollars to let other people know they didn't agree with someone's position on something is the lifeblood of these forums.

waitwhatno posted:

Female bodies are the bee's knees, very well designed. Not a great fan of male bodies though. It's not like they are disgusting or anything, but they are aesthetically not as pleasing and there is all kinds of weird poo poo going on like all that hair on the butt, the useless nipples or the huge wrinkly ballsack just hanging around like a spoiled dried out fruit.

Vaginas are disgusting. Everything about human sexuality is vile. Let me tell you about anime.

spacetoaster
Feb 10, 2014

Cicero posted:

Yes, part of the issue is driving everywhere, rather than walking/biking (and using transit usually involves walking too). If we want people to exercise more it's gonna be built-in into the environment, few people have the self-discipline to go to the gym/go running consistently for the long term.

If you look at places with relatively low driving rates/high active transport rates like the Netherlands, obesity rates are relatively low for an affluent developed country.

A lot of the places in the U.S. are so spread out. If you try and walk to a place you better plan for that to be the only place you go that day.

When I go to eastern europe you can walk everywhere because there always seems to be a market/bus stop/stuff right near by.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
I think one controversial aspect of it also in regard to children is anxiety about sexual predators. A kid frolicking around naked is assumed to draw more attention from people sexually attracted to children. Americans as a culture can be judgy about parenting and many parents might not want to deal with the implication that they aren't protecting their kids.

That and we get weird about puberty. Wife and I were on vacation last year and my wife spotted a girl playing in the hotel swimming pool in just her underwear. She said the girl was just starting to become sexually developed and seeing her without a top of some kind made my wife kind of uncomfortable (not because my wife is grossed out by boobs or anything like that, but rather the fact that she was still a kid but was developing physical traits that were going to give her the wrong kind of attention).

Conversely, a guy sunbathing naked in his backyard in view of a neighbors kids second story bedroom window would also draw controversy. Maybe the dude just likes being naked in his backyard, or maybe he only drops trou when he sees the neighbor kid looking at him. Parents could be chill and not make a big deal of it, or they could worry that letting him be naked in front of their kid is a red flag that they're not acting on.

Panfilo fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Sep 26, 2016

TheImmigrant
Jan 18, 2011

spacetoaster posted:

A lot of the places in the U.S. are so spread out. If you try and walk to a place you better plan for that to be the only place you go that day.

When I go to eastern europe you can walk everywhere because there always seems to be a market/bus stop/stuff right near by.

Sprawl is really a function of the age of a city. Most cities that became true urban areas after 1900 or so sprawl all over the place. Johannesburg makes Houston look like a compact and well-planned city, for example.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Volcott posted:

Vaginas are disgusting. Everything about human sexuality is vile. Let me tell you about anime.

The human body may be disgusting, but anime is waaaaaaaaaay more vile.

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

This rear end in a top hat right here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg

quote:

John Harvey Kellogg is best known for the invention of the famous breakfast cereal, Corn Flakes, in 1878. Originally, he called this cereal Granula, which he later changed to Granola in 1881. However, due to patent rights, he had to once again change the name to Corn Flakes.[19] These Corn Flakes were invented as part of his health regimen to prevent masturbation. His belief was that bland foods, such as these, would decrease or prevent excitement and arousal.

Also in my neck of SC gyms do not have showers or changing rooms and it's just understood that you either make a special trip straight home afterwards or just go about stank, lest you catch the gay.

shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Sep 26, 2016

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Admiral Bosch posted:

what's more curious is that this is completely untrue in the american military, at least in the (generally really homoerotic) marine corps

since group showers are a thing in boot camp, you stop giving a gently caress pretty quick, particularly if during some exercise later on you end up staying in a squad bay environment. it's just not that big a deal

The Swedish army uses unisex changing rooms/showers/toilets/sleeping arrangements etc in the field and used to have them in many places in barracks until recently (last year, IIRC) when some labor legal requirements put a stop to that, at least temporarily. It's generally regarded as something that improves the team spirit, being a show of trust etc. People are usually hesitant in boot camp but staring gets pretty old pretty quickly. It's nothing you haven't seen before.

woke wedding drone
Jun 1, 2003

by exmarx
Fun Shoe

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

The human body may be disgusting, but anime is waaaaaaaaaay more vile.

Nude beaches are OK, but everyone has to wear pixels.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

TheFluff posted:

The Swedish army uses unisex changing rooms/showers/toilets/sleeping arrangements etc in the field and used to have them in many places in barracks until recently (last year, IIRC) when some labor legal requirements put a stop to that, at least temporarily. It's generally regarded as something that improves the team spirit, being a show of trust etc. People are usually hesitant in boot camp but staring gets pretty old pretty quickly. It's nothing you haven't seen before.

I think the US military is a bit too rapey for that to work here.

A Pale Horse
Jul 29, 2007

Thanks to my job (doctor) I've seen more dicks, asses, boobs and poon than 100 normal people will in their lifetime in all states of fitness from beautiful sculpted athlete to bloated decomposing floater (thanks forensic medicine classes) and all ages so I've become completely desensitized to the human body in all its forms absent a specifically sexual context. That being said I was glad of the rather stringent no nudity standards in school when I was growing up because as a gay dude I had enough trouble not popping wood when guys were parading around in their underwear. If they had been hanging dong, I'm pretty sure I would have had some uncomfortable splainin to do.

MaxxBot
Oct 6, 2003

you could have clapped

you should have clapped!!

Admiral Bosch posted:

what's more curious is that this is completely untrue in the american military, at least in the (generally really homoerotic) marine corps

since group showers are a thing in boot camp, you stop giving a gently caress pretty quick, particularly if during some exercise later on you end up staying in a squad bay environment. it's just not that big a deal

I just played sports in high school and college and that was enough to make me not care at all.

^^^ Even as a gay man playing sports for years, it wasn't an issue because after you do it enough times group showering naked is totally desexualized.

MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Sep 26, 2016

A Pale Horse
Jul 29, 2007

MaxxBot posted:

I just played sports in high school and college and that was enough to make me not care at all.

^^^ Even as a gay man playing sports for years, it wasn't an issue because after you do it enough times group showering naked is totally desexualized.

Yeah, now I would be fine, but as a 12-13 year old? Probably not so much.

GABA ghoul
Oct 29, 2011

A Pale Horse posted:

because as a gay dude I had enough trouble not popping wood when guys were parading around in their underwear.

Boohooooo :qq:

you had everything a heterosexual teen in puberty could ever dream of. You were living THE DREAM

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


I fear going to a sauna or a public bath because of the possibility of an unrelated tent-pitching. "No, no, I was thinking about Helen Mirren."

Woolie Wool
Jun 2, 2006


waitwhatno posted:

Boohooooo :qq:

you had everything a heterosexual teen in puberty could ever dream of. You were living THE DREAM

Except they might have beaten the poo poo out of him because homophobia, especially since he's old enough to have an MD.

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RaySmuckles
Oct 14, 2009


:vapes:
Grimey Drawer
well this seems like a rather complicated subject with a lot more inputs than i realized.

i figured it came from the traditionally conservative teachings of protestantism being skewed through the lens of homosexuality. in other words, americans have always been incredibly uptight about sexualization in general. its no surprise that men and women are kept separate and nudity between the two has historically been tightly controlled. but since homosexuality broke onto the scene (especially with its initial negative connotations) it has inherently sexualized same gender situations. add in the obsession with the sexualizing the human body by marketers and now we have a situation where the human figure inherently a sexual thing.

tl;dr protestants are weary of sex stuff, homosexuality has blurred the line of when sex stuff is happening, marketing has also made the human body inherently sexual. protestants don't like sex stuff.

being in the army was great for me. i had some minor body image stuff growing up but now i don't give a flying gently caress about being nude in non-sexual situations. human bodies are cool and it'd probably do us all a lot of good if we saw more of them

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