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I'm far from an expert but one thing I could see in the combat mission games so far is that FIRING ARCS ARE THE BRINGER OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. FRUSTRATION WILL BE CAST UPON THE ONE WHO WILLS THEM UPON HIS ENEMY. Facing directions are probably more what you're looking for. I should add these to my orders as well. Completely unrelated, how could we deal with the enemy following the mountain roads to the south of victory road all the way to the west edge of the map and then border hugging north to their exit point? I guess there is no such thing as a 'mission complete' when any unit of them reaches the road or am I wrong?
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Oct 4, 2016 21:07
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:19 |
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professor_curly posted:Oh did GI say that was alright? Ok, cool, let me know. Here's a video of a test fire mission on a smaller map (1 battery of 3 tubes, medium duration, light intensity). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVeU7GA1pEg The mission lasts for just over 7 minutes. The fires are fairly intermittent, but they start to get a bit staggered towards the end. I also made a terrain flyover video on the actual map. The FPS is so low that youtube thought I should use their image stabilization filter on the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Iv700cTTI Katznmaus posted:I'm far from an expert but one thing I could see in the combat mission games so far is that FIRING ARCS ARE THE BRINGER OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. FRUSTRATION WILL BE CAST UPON THE ONE WHO WILLS THEM UPON HIS ENEMY. Yes, there is no reason to use target arcs here. Facing is definitely what you want. Let your piksel'nyye voyska open fire as soon as the enemy is in range. Katznmaus posted:Completely unrelated, how could we deal with the enemy following the mountain roads to the south of victory road all the way to the west edge of the map and then border hugging north to their exit point? Fuligin posted:Note: I'd appreciate it if anyone can offer input on whether I'm deploying suicidally close to the edge, whether I'm too clustered, etc. I'm ready to take advantage of the remaining time to edit things. Check out my previous screenshots or the video in this post. If you need more specific info, let me know and I can make a preview of how you've deployed your units.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:25
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 Fortunately there won't be any mud around the lakes, or on that one narrow ford...
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Oct 4, 2016 21:50
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Hubis posted:
And no chance of there being any mud on those hillside ravines that we're counting on driving through during a steady drizzle.
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Oct 4, 2016 21:58
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It's not getting stuck, it's impromptu entrenchment! 
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Oct 4, 2016 23:21
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 Orders are due in about 30 hours. Make sure you link to the orders tab of the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k-d6mtH8Ln1EMBSg-UNs6QntbevMiPRXV2THc4kqJQU/edit#gid=871957813  I have done some testing and have IMPORTANT ADVICE APPLICABLE TO EVERYONE DRIVING THROUGH GRASS: NO NOT USE THE FAST COMMAND. It seems too likely to cause BTRs to get bogged in these conditions. I think that with some minor tweaks to our timing that it should be as smooth as it's going to get provided we don't get bogged. Please limit yourselves to the QUICK speed. Other units on roads can probably ignore this. It is going to take us a while to get down to Victory Road, so we might hit turn 6 with decisions to make. It should be clear by then if the enemy is barraging our crossing, in which case the main western alternate is our best, terrible option so keep that in mind. We have no alternative than these chokepoints; even if we wanted to be dumb, the game won't let our BTRs try to enter the swampy ground. Forums Terrorist: Speak up if you need more time! If it gets to tomorrow afternoon I will post provisional orders just to make sure we don't lose precious turns because life is busy or whatever. You know what you're doing; just overwrite my orders if there's something there. Plan to add 1 minute of waiting to the start of your orders to accommodate how long it's going to take to get everyone moving. Hubis: Orders look good, but I recommend removing the second pause just before the chokepoint. Also, the 5 second pauses between vehicles should be unnecessary given the amount of space we have to work with. It's bigger than it seems. There may be some backing up but the game seems to handle it okay enough and I think if we add extra pauses it will echo back too much. Fray: Please reduce speed to QUICK to avoid getting bogged. Koolkevz666: Please increase your delay to 90 seconds before starting movement. It's going to take a little longer than expected to get everyone moving. Generation Internet: I know you've already expressed the spirit with which you're going to enter orders, so I think this is superfluous, but... Based on my testing I think this clusterfuck will work out moderately okay just by being generous with our spacing both in starting position and specific pathing. The game seems to have more space than our map segments are really representing so please spread us out! I Thanks. glynnenstein fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 23:40
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Well that is disappointing. What was the ammunition expenditure from all that?
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Oct 5, 2016 00:26
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Should we all have provisional orders not to drive into any barrages just so we can't fall victim to a literalist controller?
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Oct 5, 2016 00:29
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If either side sees barrages falling on turn one I'm just going to stop it there and give everyone a chance to respond. Currently the first turn is likely going to be one minute because of your barrages in the vicinity of the NATO deployment, so not much is going to happen for a while. e: My entire premise for this game was not being a literalist 
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Oct 5, 2016 00:34
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Oh, so we're the assholes making this a pain in the rear end to play... 
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Oct 5, 2016 00:38
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abelian posted:Here's a video of a test fire mission on a smaller map (1 battery of 3 tubes, medium duration, light intensity). Alright then, that's suboptimal. Davin, how about the following idea. Since our bombardment doesn't seem heavy or long enough to build a wall of steel, how about we do the following: Put a 5 minute delay on the initial bombardment. Drop a Short/Heavy bombardment on the chokepoint roads. Something along those lines, a few minutes of heavy fire that will actually get them to think about driving through it. If they move forces past the bombardment area that's fine, because they won't be able to move everyone out. That means we cut off the forward elements of their column from the rest. This forces the enemy to either continue with limited forward forces, or they wait for the barrage to stop or try to drive through what will hopefully be a much more intense bombardment.
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Oct 5, 2016 01:21
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professor_curly posted:Davin, how about the following idea. Since our bombardment doesn't seem heavy or long enough to build a wall of steel, how about we do the following: Could you draw out on the map what you mean by this? Keep in mind that the map is "only" (pfft) about 4 kilometers a side. In other words, Route 23 and the southern road are probably less than 2 kilometers long. That means that any vehicle traversing them at a reasonable speed can be in and out of the kill zone in under five minutes.
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Oct 5, 2016 01:27
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glynnenstein posted:Fray: Please reduce speed to QUICK to avoid getting bogged.
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Oct 5, 2016 01:39
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I've updated my orders as well
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Oct 5, 2016 01:58
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Phone posting from work. Will get my orders in when I get home in the morning.
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Oct 5, 2016 04:23
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Updated my orders to reflect the iglas. Keeping them behind houses so they're relatively safe.
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Oct 5, 2016 05:12
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I did a test of the artillery RoF with harrass/medium. It's pretty similar to "light" except it lasts about 50% longer: 11-12 minutes instead of 7-8. It uses 1/3 of each battery's HE ammo. It might live up to its namesake and slow them down slightly, but I just don't see it being enough of an impediment to justify using 33% of our ammo reserves. That said, I don't think artillery use will end up being decisive in this match-up, but it could really help soften up a fixed objective like Pewter. I did test out a smoke mission with the 152mm arty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Dzzrw0AZQ Also, I put together a few screenshots of a random UKR tactical group. It's comparable in size to what we can expect to be facing (if not in composition). With pretty minimal spacing between the vehicles, it stretches out to over 800m along a single road.   When given a massive simultaneous "move quick" in single column order, the battalion actually moves out relatively successfully without crippling girdlock-- although it does result in most of the vehicles departing from the roadway. Not that this would necessarily be a realistic scenario; blufor is certainly aware of combat mission TacAI driving limitations and will probably give some pause orders. 
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Oct 5, 2016 07:50
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glynnenstein posted:Forums Terrorist: Speak up if you need more time! If it gets to tomorrow afternoon I will post provisional orders just to make sure we don't lose precious turns because life is busy or whatever. You know what you're doing; just overwrite my orders if there's something there. Plan to add 1 minute of waiting to the start of your orders to accommodate how long it's going to take to get everyone moving. Yeah, I'd planned to have my orders in last night but my internet was crapping out so Roll20 was a blurry mess. Essentially I'm going to move QUICKly down the hill like everyone else and use the alternate route to the west (because lol if there won't be traffic problems at Flo Rida). Still need to determine final destination; is 1/1 still going for Mt Moon?
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Oct 5, 2016 10:46
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abelian posted:I did a test of the artillery RoF with harrass/medium. It's pretty similar to "light" except it lasts about 50% longer: 11-12 minutes instead of 7-8. It uses 1/3 of each battery's HE ammo. So the sustained rate of fire is actually 3 rounds/minute, per gun? 
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Oct 5, 2016 11:37
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Forums Terrorist posted:Yeah, I'd planned to have my orders in last night but my internet was crapping out so Roll20 was a blurry mess. Essentially I'm going to move QUICKly down the hill like everyone else and use the alternate route to the west (because lol if there won't be traffic problems at Flo Rida). Still need to determine final destination; is 1/1 still going for Mt Moon? No problem. My intention is to have you be our (initially) eastern-most element headed toward the Jagged Pass. Depending on what battalion recon finds that way, I hope to advance you into the passes to try to find good ground ahead of the expected enemy advance into the same passes. Our best case scenario is that the enemy is very slow to enter the area or focusing elsewhere, allowing us to form up for a coordinated flanking attack. Our greatest risk is that the enemy enters the area much faster than expected and is able to prepare an ambush, or that the enemy commits a majority of their forces to the area and attempts to overwhelm us. The most likely event is that we meet the enemy with little notice, chaotically in the woods and passes. I think the chance of enemy air cover in our area is moderate, with 3rd Co's northern positions that overwatch the open ground by far most at risk. 2nd Platoon will be operating to your immediate right, attempting to advance through the channels of the passes just to the West of your area with the same intention. 3rd Platoon is in position to respond more re-actively to the situation. In our best case scenario 3rd will follow behind you to quickly form up for an attack. In our worst case scenario they will create fall back positions where needed to allow you or 2nd Platoon to disengage from an ambush or retreat from overwhelming forces and establish controlled lines in the woods and passes. In our most likely scenario they maneuver to extend our line on either the left or right flank as needed, the latter being my expectation. glynnenstein fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 12:13
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I just ran some tests on the crossing 2nd company is supposed to use. Our tanks seem to cross fine with no pathfinding issues, but our BRTs have a lot of trouble. Those that cross do so very slowly, taking 2 minutes or more to cross. The rest bug out, reverse, and try to go around the swamp. This is what the crossing looks like in-game. 
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Oct 5, 2016 16:20
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Oh dear.  I have a few options. I can cut through Viridian City to Berry Fields with the BTR's, or take them South through another crossing in the swamp.  Do you know if the other berm crossings are any better?
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Oct 5, 2016 16:57
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That middle path isn't viable. Vehicles cannot pass there. You can, however slip through on the strip of dry ground a little farther to the east. (Travel just behind the buildings to the west of the swamp.) The western path obviously has the downside of the entire 1st Co trying to squeeze through.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:13
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glynnenstein posted:That middle path isn't viable. Vehicles cannot pass there. You can, however slip through on the strip of dry ground a little farther to the east. (Travel just behind the buildings to the west of the swamp.) Could you mark on a map where you're talking about with that path? And someone test if we can move a BTR through it. To alleviate traffic problems, it may be worthwhile to send our tanks down that middle route if they can handle it and BTR's can't. Stand by everyone, gonna see what's what with this.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:23
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I did a quick test with some BTR's. They seemed to move pretty well through that field just west of Viridian City. With the light rain do I run the risk of bogging down? The Rida crossing point was also quick, but quite congested. I'm also worried about the bridge at the top of the Florida Swamp as a potential chokepoint / artillery funnel. But for now I like the field route and will modify my orders if no one has any objections.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:43
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Are you on the road that 3rd Coy is going to be using on that northern route though?
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Oct 5, 2016 17:48
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professor_curly posted:Are you on the road that 3rd Coy is going to be using on that northern route though? Yes unfortunately. At least until we were across the bridge. Otherwise we're bottled up through the original crossing. The orders could be amended to cross it more cautiously and have the T-90's move ahead and hold until the BTR's pass.
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Oct 5, 2016 17:58
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The 50-ton tanks can bog in the fields even on quick speed. The BRTs should be fine. I never noticed them bog down when I tested it. Considering our platoon deployments, maybe 1st and 3rd should cross at Viridian and 2nd should cross at Rida.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:05
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Yooper posted:Yes unfortunately. At least until we were across the bridge. Otherwise we're bottled up through the original crossing. The orders could be amended to cross it more cautiously and have the T-90's move ahead and hold until the BTR's pass. Cross slowly then. I don't want our tanks waiting in line behind 3rd Co. If 2nd and 3rd Platoons are delayed, we can adapt as needed, but 1st is covering the Victory/Rte 23 junction and Mount Silver.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:10
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1/1 "Put It In H" (Fancy platoon header TBA) 1/1 will deploy in this order:  HQ and 1st platoon in 1st BTR, 2nd in 2nd, 3rd in 3rd, all in a column. They will move QUICKly, with delays as appropriate, like so:  Ducking through the Flo crossing to the west will slow them down a little but should hopefully mitigate any traffic pileups at the Rida crossing.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:18
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dublish posted:Cross slowly then. I don't want our tanks waiting in line behind 3rd Co. If 2nd and 3rd Platoons are delayed, we can adapt as needed, but 1st is covering the Victory/Rte 23 junction and Mount Silver. You got it. I've amended the orders to slow the BTR's down at that point.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:18
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Alright then time to take stock of priorities. Here is what we need to do: 0 - Make sure the IGLAS missiles assigned to 3rd Coy start the game deployed and covering us, just in case. 1 - Confirm that BTR's can't cross the central path consistently. 2 - Given that BTR's can't, we're going to have to adjust 2nd and 3rd Coy's deployment. If they can still cross the central route, then ignore the following3 - Our strategic goals must first be to establish an overwatch on the clear paths along Route 23 and get eyes/missiles covering the Victory Road/Route 23 crossroad to preempt any attempt to push up directly. Second, we need to get forces along Victory Road in ambush and observation, particularly facing down the Danger Zone, and in the gullies that abelian identified. Third, we need to seize critical terrain for the recon forward. 4 - With that in mind here would be the priorities for movement orders: Northern Road 1st - Battalion ATGM Teams. If 3rd Coy wants their HQ team to move up first with the battalion ATGM teams that's fine. 2nd - 3rd Coy Armored units and ATGM teams 3rd - 2nd Coy, 1st Platoon 4th - 2nd Coy, 2nd Platoon 5th - 2nd Coy, 3rd Platoon --------With 2nd Coy support and HQ units distributed among there. 6th - 3rd Coy 3rd Platoon 7th - 3rd Coy 2nd Platoon 8th - 3rd Coy 1st Platoon --------With 3rd Coy support and HQ units distributed among there. 2nd Coy should be prepared to turn west if NATO forces do for some reason drive hard up Route 23. You may try to move a platoon through Flo Rida, but if our scouting report is true I don't see you making much progress. If the pathing AI starts bugging out then things will go wrong very quickly. This isn't ideal, but I don't see a better alternative. To take some of the pressure off: Central Path: 1st - 2nd Coy Armor 2nd - 1st Coy Armor if they want unjam their southern route a bit. Southern Path: 1st - Battalion Recon 2nd - 1st Coy Discretion The Mortars, Engineers, and AGL teams will wait in the rear until we can clear out some of this backlog. Battalion FO and other assets will be assigned at the discretion of abelian, although I definitely think we should keep our air controller in the back until we actually have air support to call in. General orders: 1st Coy - if 2nd Coy is going to be delayed, as it looks like it will be, you may need to set up your first platoon on the scene in a more defensive posture, both along Victory Road and toward potential charges from the south-east. As I said above, it may also be worthwhile to move your armor through the central path along with 2nd Coy's, since tanks seem to be the most reliable at traversing the terrain. 2nd Coy - Move out as quickly and efficiently as possible. It isn't the greatest idea, but it may be worth it for your tanks to rush ahead along the central path and set up ahead of the rest of your forces. Work with 3rd Coy - if they need something for the defense of Route 23 then it will get road priority. 3rd Coy - you're going to be working on a bit of a shoestring road budget. I outlined what I think you need for the defense of Route 23. If you think you'll need more, let me know. Otherwise, after your first line of ATGM and tanks, the road will be assigned to 2nd Coy until they can move out. I'll be done with classes in about 5 hours, and if things aren't going very well I may do some executive order giving for people who haven't checked the thread again. Does this seem reasonable to all involved?
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Oct 5, 2016 18:36
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I appreciate the sentiment, but understand that your traffic situation is inherently hosed by the virtue of trying to move two companies of motorized infantry and support into a forest through farmer's fields and swamps  E: that is to say, the most valiant micro-management of pathing cannot completely compensate for the terrain and TacAI that will start to make its own decisions Generation Internet fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 18:41
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I know it is hosed, but doing it this way means it is marginally less hosed. The last thing I need is a BTR stopping in the middle of that Flo Rida crossing because its pathing AI suddenly realizes that it has no path forward and just starts spinning its BTR turret around hopelessly.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:52
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Check the Roll20. At some point I had a map of all the good paths through that area, with notes on what look good but aren't. Might have been deleted, though.
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Oct 5, 2016 18:56
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Before I get home I wanna confirm with you, Curly that my Coy's orders have been submitted and acknowledged. Everyone should check by today if all orders as of yet are acknowledged by Colonel Curley. We should have a first draft in by tonight before we modify. We should also identify all units currently without orders.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:12
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We're in Roll20 right now trying to sort this traffic mess out.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:22
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The orders spreadsheet has 3rd Coy's armor orders and the HQ orders missing. Dublish' HQ orders and 2nd Coys armor don't have orders linked either. Battalion HQ assets also don't have orders. I've read through your platoon's orders and they are generally ok, but could use a bit more coordination on who goes first and so on. The back platoons should have a pause order at least as long as the last unit in the platoon in front of them +15-20 seconds.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:25
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I thought I gave HQ orders a while ago Yeah I did I guess Ill assume direct control of 3/5
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Oct 5, 2016 19:27
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:19 |
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Alright I went back in your history and linked your orders in the spreadsheet.
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Oct 5, 2016 19:31
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