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Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty
Hi, as you may have guessed from the subject line, I am disabled. I have end stage renal disease from surprise genetic markers first found in me at age 17. For complicated reasons, I'm no longer suitable for receiving transplants, and am stuck on dialysis three times a week, which leaves me usually feeling fatigued, sick, and even in great pain. Sometimes with extremely limited mobility for it. My four limbs all work, but unfortunately I cannot. I live in the US, which if you've been paying attention, kinda sucks lately, and only appears to be on a downward trajectory. So, between that, and always wishing I could travel and see the world, there's a small part of me that wishes I could move abroad. I have several disabled friends around the country that wish the same. I am therefore curious what sort of options there are, as in which-if any-countries have good healthcare programs (preferably universal) and also are willing to let disabled people move in. Web searching has proven frustrating for me, and the most I've accomplished is seeing that there are definitely many countries who do NOT let you in if you have some sort of medical need (even if you are a child of someone who is granted visas or citizenship). This is directly in violation of UN guidelines, but apparently many countries simply don't care. I know very little on this topic however, and was hoping there might be some goons that do for whichever reason. Thanks for any help you might give.

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skeptic22
Aug 13, 2004
Immaculate
I can't speak to immigration or anything like that, but if you want to take a trip, I hear the Spanish island of Tenerife is very committed to accessible living and is a popular tourist destination. My wife uses a wheelchair and its on our list for sure.

Gophermaster
Mar 5, 2005

Bring the Ruckas
I haven't done any immigration stuff for over a decade, but I have immigrated in the past, as well as sponsored someone on a family class visa in the past, so I have some knowledge of the subject.

First you need to realize that moving to a new country will almost always have requirements that are very strict, if the country is worth moving to. You normally apply for a visa that allows you to live and work/school. These requirements are usually a combination of:
1. Education - University Degrees are the norm, though trade skills and certifications sometimes count
2. Work history - Several years in a field the country you are applying to cares about, most have a list
3. Employment sponsorship - A job in the country already lined up, often the employer will do the paperwork for you
4. Age - Not too young, not too old
5. Medical history - Nothing that will signal to the country that you will be a drain on their health services
6. Family ties - Blood relations

Because you have medical issues, and I assume you lack in demand skills and the ability to work, you will likely be unable to secure a normal visa to move to most places.

You may be able to move to certain countries, if you can prove heritage, for example if your parents were from the UK, you used to be able to gain a UK ancestry visa. Often marrying someone in the country will give some additional weight to your application for a visa.

These requirements are different for every single country, and the method of applying is also. Sorry for the bad news, but you are not in a good position.

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Choco1980 posted:

This is directly in violation of UN guidelines, but apparently many countries simply don't care.

Lol. So you want free healthcare for life from a country that you are not even a citizen of, and you are mad because you can't find any takers? Guess what? People usually want something in exchange for something else.

Chillbro Baggins
Oct 8, 2004
Bad Angus! Bad!

John Smith posted:

Lol. So you want free healthcare for life from a country that you are not even a citizen of, and you are mad because you can't find any takers? Guess what? People usually want something in exchange for something else.
Yeah, if you don't have a job offer, pretty much your only way to get out of (or into, for that matter) the US is to marry a foreigner with a really nice job and get a spouse visa in your partner's country. No offense intended, but that's probably less likely than getting a job -- I mean, as long as you've got working hands, you can be a computer janitor or even write code and work from home. IDK if the UK needs to import those workers, though. (Probably not.)


Gophermaster posted:

You may be able to move to certain countries, if you can prove heritage, for example if your parents were from the UK, you used to be able to gain a UK ancestry visa.
Pretty sure the OP would've mentioned it if they had dual citizenship.

Edit: comedy option: Teach English in Japan. That'll get you a couple years on a work visa, at least.

Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Oct 1, 2016

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

John Smith posted:

Lol. So you want free healthcare for life from a country that you are not even a citizen of, and you are mad because you can't find any takers? Guess what? People usually want something in exchange for something else.

More that I, and others I know, don't really like the US, but don't want to go anywhere where the medical field would basically be "tough poo poo, here's your coffin." I'm lucky in that here in the US, dialysis is on the straight ticket to disabled status and getting government medical coverage, but there's a lot of conditions that aren't so fortunate. Regardless, this is what's keeping me alive, and I don't have the physical capability to really have a good job to afford it out of pocket.


skeptic22 posted:

I can't speak to immigration or anything like that, but if you want to take a trip, I hear the Spanish island of Tenerife is very committed to accessible living and is a popular tourist destination. My wife uses a wheelchair and its on our list for sure.

This is kinda iffy due to needing regular treatments even. Lots of places expect you to pay out of pocket if you don't have domestic insurance with their country. New Zealand actually is a country that's VERY nice to tourists medically, and from what I've seen, dialysis would be FREE if I were to vacation there. But they suuuure don't want me moving permanently.


The answers so far have pretty much been what I expected, in that it's pretty much tough luck without special circumstances to get in anywhere.

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Say, do you know how to do the walk?
First, are you on hemodialysis or peritoneal dialysis? I am assuming HD, but if you are on PD, then it will be much easy to get dialysis wherever you go.

Second, you probably should get in touch with a social worker. They will be able to find resources for you if there are any. But just know that trying to move to another country while being a ESRD patient will be very difficult. Vacationing somewhere would be much more manageable. I know its not the same, but it would be more economically safe and most likely physically safer in the long run. Ever thought about taking a cruise? I know some services do offer dialysis while on a cruise ship.

Finally, if you are on medicare or medicaid, your options are pretty limited. With private insurance you may have slightly more options.

But my best suggestion is to contact a social worker and if you are looking to vacation, see if yall can plan something ahead.

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.
Canada? Scandinavia?

Seems like the general gist is that you need other factors to overrule your health problems. i.e. a job or family even in permissive countries. Maybe you can visit NZ and some places that allow visitors free healthcare. That's how most people see the world anyhow. Seems like moving countries with your issues is a pretty unnecessary gamble, with no end-goal other than "I think I don't like the US".

I'm not American, but it's a big and varied place, politically, culturally, geographically and economically. I don't exactly know your situation, but from an outsider's perspective there's not many more interesting places to be "stuck" in, as it were. Since I don't know the ins and outs of your financial/living situation though, obviously that might not be true for you.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty
Well with me personally, this isn't a "major" idea, but it's definitely something I'm not discounting. I have several friends that also wish they weren't in this country. And yeah, it seems like it's kind of a non-issue with the way countries treat immigrants that are disabled. Canada for instance is one where people dissatisfied with US politics often threaten to move to, but it's actually not a very easy country to do that with, and it's a dirty secret that they flatout kick out even disabled children of valuable workers trying to move there. Maybe someday I'll get to vacation like is being suggested to places that still put on a nice face for tourists.

Here in America, the health system is very odd, with a lot of it structured to look like there's compassionate care available without actually going the extra steps to make sure of it. If you don't have an easy to diagnose disability, like missing a limb, or some disease that will kill you if untreated within the month, you might go years with a constant uphill battle before the government will grant you your handicapped status. Also, the American's with Disabilities Act is expressly written so that it's full of loop holes. Very few businesses or non governmental buildings actually require handicapped access for instance. Or then there's the rule where employers have to make concessions so that their employees that are disabled can still work in those environments. Want to know how to avoid having to shell out money for expensive remodeling or for equipment so your disabled employee can still perform? Just don't hire any disabled employees! Yes, that's actually quasi-legal. Also, there's two different types of welfare programs from the government for those unable to work. One of them has a savings ceiling that is only $2000. That's extremely low if you want to try to sign an apartment lease or have your own transportation. If you save up more than that limit, you lose all benefits and aid.

Basically the government spends all their time on their disabled citizens dragging their feet and sighing loudly.

Gophermaster
Mar 5, 2005

Bring the Ruckas
The US is one of the best places on earth to be disabled dude. And I say that as a non American.

Blackchamber
Jan 25, 2005

Someone made a thread asking about leaving the US to live overseas, you can see if any of your questions/concerns are addressed there. It wasnt specifically about doing so as a disabled person but I think if you read the OP its clear hes severely mentally disabled: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3782497&pagenumber=1&perpage=40#post461857510

Lord Zedd-Repulsa
Jul 21, 2007

Devour a good book.


The teaching English in Asia option only works for people with 4 year degrees, sadly. I'm in a similar situation, OP, only my disabilities aren't visible unless you count using a cane or walking sticks. I'm in a low cost of living state which is probably the only reason my wife and I, both disabled, can get by on our poo poo income. My wife had a professional certification until July, when we couldn't afford to renew it. It's the only thing that might get us somewhere if it's on a list of desirable skills. :sigh:

lizard_phunk
Oct 23, 2003

Alt Girl For Norge

Jeza posted:

Canada? Scandinavia?

Norwegian here. While it is likely OP would get treatment as a tourist (at least in cities), he would only be able to stay if he got a work VISA (job offer) or married a Norwegian (then the couple would need a minimum income which is pretty much impossible if both are disabled, for example).

If OP were an asylum seeker it would be different, but the US is one of the most civilized countries on the planet so I guess that's off the table.

Living on disability in Norway is not fun.

If your wage before becoming disabled was ~330k NOK, you will live on ~220k NOK as disabled. This is practically impossible to actually live on in the cities. This number is decreased if you are living with a partner.
A small one-bedroom apartment in Oslo would cost you ~120k a year.
You want a bus pass? That's 8-10k per year.
Electricity, perhaps 10k a year.
You want to go crazy and eat take-out once a week? 300kr per pizza is reasonable if they deliver, amounts to another ~16k per year.
Want to go on a holiday? Apply 6 weeks in advance.

As a dialysis patient your mobility would be severely reduced and to be honest you could in practice only live in the four city areas if you need to go to the hospital on a regular basis - which you would not be able to afford on disability.

The grass looks greener on another continent. But consider that fact that anywhere you go except UK and Australia you would have to handle 1) cultural shock 2) special blends of bureaucracy in an alien language.

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003
Is that 220k before or after taxes? Because i know norway is expensive but that is about $2300 a month.
No one is gonna be deterred by having to live on "only" $2300 a month. The situation and prices you described sound great to people coming from other European welfare states, i imagine over 99% of the disabled people worldwide would take that deal.
Hardship in Norway: you might not be able to afford $25 takeout pizza (but you probably can).

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

NihilismNow posted:

Is that 220k before or after taxes? Because i know norway is expensive but that is about $2300 a month.
No one is gonna be deterred by having to live on "only" $2300 a month. The situation and prices you described sound great to people coming from other European welfare states, i imagine over 99% of the disabled people worldwide would take that deal.
Hardship in Norway: you might not be able to afford $25 takeout pizza (but you probably can).

Seriously. That'd be well above minimum wage here in the states. I calculated it and if I made the same as my benefit payout at a full time job, I'd get less than five bucks an hour, and that's the average for single disabled households. Thanks to the privilege of well off and kind parents, I have it pretty cushy for Americans with handicaps. My folks were able to help me get a car, and my father owns my place so my rent is a token pittance. Not many of us unable to work in this country have both their own transportation and are able to live alone. As I said earlier (and was kinda seconded) the US's disability policies almost seem like they're designed deliberately to look good and compassionate strictly from the outside. It's those memes of the wheelchair ramps being unusable (like with a step at the bottom or leading to a wall or whatever) in macro.

lizard_phunk
Oct 23, 2003

Alt Girl For Norge

NihilismNow posted:

Is that 220k before or after taxes? Because i know norway is expensive but that is about $2300 a month.
No one is gonna be deterred by having to live on "only" $2300 a month. The situation and prices you described sound great to people coming from other European welfare states, i imagine over 99% of the disabled people worldwide would take that deal.
Hardship in Norway: you might not be able to afford $25 takeout pizza (but you probably can).

Before taxes, taxes are about 30% in that group I believe.

You should probably drop the take out, but a generic frozen pizza still costs 40-100kr (BigOne, etc).

Compare the price of any other common European food item to Norwegian prices and it's not a sweet deal any more (there's a reason Norwegians go to Sweden once a month to buy food - but this is tough without a car).

Indeed, plenty of good workers (especially from Eastern Europe) are making a lot of money here, but they are subsiding on the cheapest white cardboard loaf and chocolate spread which I would not recommend if you have a chronic condition.

Edit: You can have a livable situation on the countryside with this sort of income. But you don't want to be in the Norwegian "countryside" (wilderness) if you are disabled. Like someone I know on a reasonably populated island with no skilled health care: This lady has terminal mesothelioma and drains the fluid from her own lungs every week. Once a month a nurse calls from the nearest island to check her status: "Not dead yet? OK.".

lizard_phunk fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Oct 2, 2016

Gophermaster
Mar 5, 2005

Bring the Ruckas
OP, at least the US tries. Most places on earth basically say, "can't contribute, get hosed". No wheelchair ramps at all. From the sounds of it, you have things sorted out. I can tell you from my experience living and working in several countries that poo poo sucks everywhere in some flavor or another.

Scudworth
Jan 1, 2005

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons, and make super lemons.

Dinosaur Gum

Choco1980 posted:

The answers so far have pretty much been what I expected, in that it's pretty much tough luck without special circumstances to get in anywhere.

That's true of anyone wanting to immigrate, disabled or not. Unless there's a job/spouse/school/human rights claim waiting for you, no one can just move countries unless they're so independently wealthy laws barely apply to them.

Can you go back to school and get a student visa? NZ would seem like the ideal choice for this if your treatments could possibly still be free?

raton
Jul 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless
The first thing to ask yourself is if you could expatriate without your disability. In general this means securing a visa. This means either finding work, marrying a citizen, being rich enough to qualify for an investment visa (~500k to 1MM USD you can relocate to the new economy), or backdooring a passport (some countries will give you citizenship if you were born on that soil or have 2/4 grandparents from there or something like that).

Many countries (all?) require a medical exam before granting these kinds of visas. Work visa applications in particular often get rejected for medical reasons. This is from the already small number of jobs that are even eligible for application to begin with (in demand STEM stuff and some teaching) which also generally require someone to hire you before you can apply for a visa (eg you can't get a visa and then go job hunting, some firm has to want you over any given local and then apply on your behalf -- this is a lot easier to do if you're an Indian or a Filipino willing to do a job for 60% of what they would have to pay a local to it based on the overblown job description they manufactured specifically to be able to hire someone from overseas at a cut rate).

Honestly your best shot is probably marriage. It's not your fault but dialysis is a notoriously expensive total expenditure on national health care lists and there isn't a place on earth with "extra" money to spend on healthcare.

Even then there is often lag between moving and getting on the local insurance. It would be very difficult to find a private insurers who would cover international dialysis treatments for that period and I expect their would be some period where you would be out of pocket. You probably know what that would cost better than I do but I vaguely remember hearing that it's around 500 a treatment.

raton fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Oct 4, 2016

tsa
Feb 3, 2014
If you think the US is on a downward path hooo boy you don't want to look at europe. The US is one of the best places in the world to live with a disability and even assuming some other country would take you (nope) you'd still be worse off in the end. I mean generally upending your entire life and leaving your support network comes with costs.

Also consider that the general mood in Europe right now is not very welcoming of immigrants coming in and taking all their welfare, so be prepared for a good chunk of any country you go to to hate you!

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

tsa posted:

If you think the US is on a downward path hooo boy you don't want to look at europe. The US is one of the best places in the world to live with a disability and even assuming some other country would take you (nope) you'd still be worse off in the end. I mean generally upending your entire life and leaving your support network comes with costs.

Also consider that the general mood in Europe right now is not very welcoming of immigrants coming in and taking all their welfare, so be prepared for a good chunk of any country you go to to hate you!

The US is probably one of the worst developed countries in the world to be disabled in terms of support. It is quite literally famous for doing the minimum possible.

quote:

...compared to most other advanced nations the US’s provision is so negligible and its criteria to qualify is so strict that, as Rebecca Vallas of the Centre for American Progress in Washington says, “it is almost offensive”. For a sense of how badly it compares Vallas points out that the definition of what qualifies as a disability in the US for benefits purposes “is basically the most stringent in the entire developed world”. One in five Americans has a disability (the current population is around 320 million). Despite huge barriers to work - including for people with milder disabilities - the vast majority of people receive nothing in the way of disability benefits. For many who don’t qualify food stamps (a federally funded programme for the most impoverished people) is an essential, if meagre lifeline.

There are two main benefits that disabled people can apply for, both of which are administered nationally by the social security administration. The is Social Security Disability Insurance, (SSDI) which is funded through worker and employer payroll contributions. Approximately 9 million working-age adults are currently in receipt of SSDI (with a small number of dependents qualifying for some additional assistance). Most claims (which call for strict medical assessments as well as meeting additional criteria) are denied. Only four in 10 people are eventually approved after all levels of appeals while a fifth of recipients live in poverty.

According to the OECD, SSDI payments average $1,140 per month (£777) and are much less than the benefits paid by most other advanced nations placing the US 30th out of 34 countries in international rankings. The US is also hovering towards the bottom of the league tables (27th) on the percentage of its GDP that goes on disability benefits (just 0.8% in 2009 compared to the UK’s 2.4% - before austerity and recent welfare reforms).

Supplemental Security Income (SSI), the second type of disability benefit and which is designed to meet the basic needs of the poorest disabled people, is paid to just under 5 million working age people with around 1.3 million disabled children also receiving payments. On average, working age adults on SSI receive $525 per month and for most it is their only source of income. People who are paid disability benefits generally receive some public health insurance but eligibility criteria varies between states.

Also I have yet to hear any Europeans complaining about immigration from other developed nations. The immigration question in Europe is quite clearly racial and economic - people don't like muslims and they don't like more poor people. I hardly think some American on dialysis is really going to set off anybody's radar, even if logically it probably should.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Jeza posted:

The US is probably one of the worst developed countries in the world to be disabled in terms of support. It is quite literally famous for doing the minimum possible.

Exactly what I've been saying. Once you've been on the inside of their policies for a while, it starts looking very clear that most of them are written to look good from the outside, instead of being written to actually be compassionate and helpful.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Just out of curiosity, what do you imagine being different in your new utopian home country as opposed to the "downward trajectory" that you claim the US is on?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

Jeza posted:

The US is probably one of the worst developed countries in the world to be disabled in terms of support. It is quite literally famous for doing the minimum possible.


Also I have yet to hear any Europeans complaining about immigration from other developed nations. The immigration question in Europe is quite clearly racial and economic - people don't like muslims and they don't like more poor people. I hardly think some American on dialysis is really going to set off anybody's radar, even if logically it probably should.

How is someone on disability receiving government assistance not poor?

Blackchamber
Jan 25, 2005

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

How is someone on disability receiving government assistance not poor?

I don't think they are saying they aren't poor, just that at first glance to another country they aren't since the country they are coming from would suggest they are not though they are disabled, which as the poster says 'logically it probably should'.

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

How is someone on disability receiving government assistance not poor?

They are, but it's a matter of biased perception. An American who is able to move across the Atlantic and start a life in Europe won't be remotely perceived as impoverished. Even if they are, and are effectively coming to mooch off the system more than the average migrant. Hence my saying that logically they probably should be seen in the same light. Also, probably white, and with a Western education, outlook and set of cultural values.

I should have probably just rolled what I said into referring to the homeless, jobless, nearly without resources/assets, muslim immigrants that constitute the "crisis" which tsa was referring to, and what is causing a lot of anti-immigration sentiment across Europe.

Choco1980
Feb 22, 2013

I fell in love with a Video Nasty

Baronash posted:

Just out of curiosity, what do you imagine being different in your new utopian home country as opposed to the "downward trajectory" that you claim the US is on?

Honestly, it's a pipe dream where I would hope for some sort of improvement of life in general. This thread is mostly so I can find out all the facts on this idea that I'm 99.999% could never happen. Though I'm also okay with the conversation about how rough disabled people have it in various countries.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Have you been to many foreign countries before?

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



Gophermaster posted:

OP, at least the US tries. Most places on earth basically say, "can't contribute, get hosed". No wheelchair ramps at all. From the sounds of it, you have things sorted out. I can tell you from my experience living and working in several countries that poo poo sucks everywhere in some flavor or another.

This is something I've heard, but always wondered - the US is relatively accommodating for physically handicapped. It's not perfect, but in general it's pretty good, especially compared to what I've seen. Is there a global standard, and what is it? How do other countries compare - my sample is limited, to be fair. Can someone in a wheelchair easily navigate Iceland? Brazil? Are there handicapped parking spots in Christchurch? Thanks for bringing it up, I appreciate it.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
:france: is basically a giant middle finger to handicapped people.

edit: for instance, the Paris Metro line 1 has exactly two handicapped-accessible stations out of 25, and they are directly next to each other at the La Defense end of the line (newer business district).

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

:france: is basically a giant middle finger to handicapped people.

edit: for instance, the Paris Metro line 1 has exactly two handicapped-accessible stations out of 25, and they are directly next to each other at the La Defense end of the line (newer business district).

I mean, France has a pretty generous welfare system overall. It's harsh to use its aging infrastructure as an example of poor disabled policy. London is probably the most disabled-friendly major capital in the world, but only 1/4 of its metro system is wheelchair accessible at the moment, despite being committed to providing step-free access since I don't even know when. It takes a long time and a lot of money to retrofit century old, and in-use train stations.

That being said, I don't need any extra reasons to dislike the French.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
Washington, DC is far more disabled-friendly than London.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
According to the internet, all Paris buses are wheelchair-accessible, and they also have a basically free taxi for disabled residents. It sounds the same as NYC's system -- far from perfect, but not a "gently caress you" either.

Cockmaster
Feb 24, 2002

Jeza posted:

It takes a long time and a lot of money to retrofit century old, and in-use train stations.

Especially when many of them are in dense areas where finding space to squeeze in an elevator would be a major pain in the backside (such as Manhattan).

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
It's slightly amusing to me that the country that disgusts you is the one willing to treat you the best.

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010
If you moved you'd lose your most important support network - your family and close friends. At the moment you live better than you would without a family of means. But even a family without means can cook you meals, look after you when you get sick and provide all other kinds of emotional support.

Every country likely has some level of support to assist families with these tasks. Meals on Wheels for example provide cheap meals to those can't always do it themselves. Some countries can provide occasional nursing assistance or convalescence homes, yet there is some expectation that family and friends will provide help. The state is just there to lighten the load to some degree.

So lets say your dreams come true and you move to Australia/Norway/Germany. You get around ~$1k a fortnight, subsidised medicine and government housing (unlikely, but for the sake of argument). What happens when you need help? Who takes you home from hospital if you need an operation?

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

GORDON posted:

It's slightly amusing to me that the country that disgusts you is the one willing to treat you the best.

That's a moronic statement. A person could be born into a torturous hellhole from which they are unable to leave, and if other countries are unwilling to offer any form of asylum you'd still be in the country willing to treat you the best. Even if that "best" is objectively worse than what they would have had if they had been fortunate enough to be born elsewhere.

Maybe you could claim some kind of moral victory if America had a benevolent immigration policy, but in fact it has an extremely stringent one, and anybody who is perceived to be at risk of becoming a "public charge" at any time is completely inadmissible. So the OP couldn't move to the US if he had been born somewhere else either.

GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

Jeza posted:

That's a moronic statement. A person could be born into a torturous hellhole from which they are unable to leave, and if other countries are unwilling to offer any form of asylum you'd still be in the country willing to treat you the best. Even if that "best" is objectively worse than what they would have had if they had been fortunate enough to be born elsewhere.

Maybe you could claim some kind of moral victory if America had a benevolent immigration policy, but in fact it has an extremely stringent one, and anybody who is perceived to be at risk of becoming a "public charge" at any time is completely inadmissible. So the OP couldn't move to the US if he had been born somewhere else either.

That's an ironic statement. You claim mine is moronic and yet lay out some moronic scenario that the OP clearly didn't describe.

At any rate, I don't care. Go be disabled anywhere with my blessing, the world is his/her oyster.

Jeza
Feb 13, 2011

The cries of the dead are terrible indeed; you should try not to hear them.

GORDON posted:

That's an ironic statement. You claim mine is moronic and yet lay out some moronic scenario that the OP clearly didn't describe.

At any rate, I don't care. Go be disabled anywhere with my blessing, the world is his/her oyster.

Did you leave school before you covered analogies? Let me help:


The OP was born in a country. This country only looks after them on sufferance and provides minimal support. You suggested the OP should be grateful because that country treats him the best, but since no other country will take them in, it's the "best" because it's their "only" option. So it's a moronic statement.

My moronic scenario is comparable. If you're born somewhere that is a living nightmare, but at least provides for you a brutal subsistence when other countries won't allow you to immigrate to a better life, by your logic you should be grateful for living there because it's your best option. It would cause forums poster GORDON wry amusement to hear anybody from this place to complain about their situation.

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GORDON
Jan 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy
Dude. The OP literally stated they were looking to uproot to some other country because, and I quote, " I live in the US, which if you've been paying attention, kinda sucks lately..."

Making a major life decision, with a major disease, and that's the most compelling argument they can think of to describe their decision is "kinda sucks." Yes, this is amusing to me. It sounds like a horribly bad decision, but with peeps like you cheer leading, supporting, and enabling them, what can go wrong? I'm sure you'll be there to pick them up if it goes wrong.

Also I already spent the morning arguing with a dementia patient, you remind me strongly of her, and I am no longer in that mood. She also insists on making very bad decisions, this time regarding her meds. So as I said, good luck to everyone on their move, happy house hunting, and god bless, because honestly this doesn't affect me at all, and I realize that, and I am happy for that realization. :-D

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