|
JFairfax posted:Also didn't Boris Johnson make up the bendy banana thing back when he was a hack writer for the Telegraph?? e: Well that's a hell of a page topper. In Vietnam, there is a superstition that it's bad luck to take a photo with 3 people in it, claiming that the person in the middle will soon die.  This was in Japan though, so he only suffered a grave misfortune by being made Foreign Secretary. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Oct 1, 2016 |
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 07:32 |
|
|
They and others – the Express, the Morning Star, several of the Sunday papers – were claiming victory: a victory achieved after a relentless campaign of lies and Soviet-style propaganda about the European Union that long pre-dated the referendum. Indeed, it was a campaign that began in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when Boris Johnson, who had been fired by the Times for making up a quotation, was the Telegraph’s correspondent in Brussels. Johnson did not invent Euroscepticism but he took it to new levels. A brilliant caricaturist, he made his name by mocking, lampooning and ridiculing the EU. He wrote stories headlined “Brussels recruits sniffers to ensure that Euro-manure smells the same”, “Threat to British pink sausages” and “Snails are fish, says EU”. He wrote about plans to standardise condom sizes and ban prawn cocktail flavour crisps. He set up Jacques Delors, who was then the European Commission president, as a bogeyman and claimed credit for persuading Denmark to reject the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 with a Sunday Telegraph splash – “Delors plan to rule Europe” – that was seized on by the Nej campaign. To Johnson, it was all a bit of a jape. “[I] was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party – and it really gave me this, I suppose, rather weird sense of power,” he told the BBC years later. That many of Johnson’s stories bore scant relation to the truth did not matter. They were colourful and fun. The Telegraph and right-wing Tories loved them. So did other Fleet Street editors, who found the standard Brussels fare tedious and began to press their own correspondents to follow suit. I know this because I became the Brussels correspondent of the Times in 1999 and suffered the consequences. https://www.google.com/amp/www.news...p?client=safari
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
thespaceinvader posted:WHy the gently caress does anyone care what colour their passport is? Because powerless, impotent armchair dictators need to vicariously live out their masturbatory power fantasy in whatever ways they can, and arbitrary things like this are about the most they can achieve by whining in the comments section of the Mail.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:30
|
|
|
I think you're all taking the passport colour thing a bit seriously.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:37
|
|
|
Yeah, the people commenting in the Mail care more about the color of the photo in the back.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:44
|
|
|
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/01/alastair-campbell-new-labour-tony-blair-immigration-brexit
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:53
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:I think you're all taking the passport colour thing a bit seriously. It was a really big thing at the time. I remember Esther Rantzen on That's Life - of all the people and places to start talking about geopolitics - going off on a massive rant about it, and how it meant the end of the United Kingdom and I'm fairly sure comparing the EU to the Gestapo. That's Life was always going on about bendy bananas too, although mostly because they LOOK A BIT LIKE A PENIS! GET IT?!?!? JUST LIKE ONE!!!! I'm fairly sure somewhere I still have one of those cheap blue leather wraps they made to go over the red EU passport around somewhere, every fucker had them in the early 90s, like bowl haircuts and Kappa tracksuit bottoms.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 13:55
|
|
|
old people need to gently caress off imho
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
Rainbow passports to keep everyone happy. Whatever your preferred colour, it's included
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:02
|
|
|
XMNN posted:old people need to gently caress off imho Rude.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:02
|
|
|
Jippa posted:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/01/alastair-campbell-new-labour-tony-blair-immigration-brexit really unfortunate that these are the lessons being drawn it could easily be "we became complacent with the media" but instead it's "we became complacent with the immigration" ronya fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Oct 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:02
|
|
|
Jippa posted:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/01/alastair-campbell-new-labour-tony-blair-immigration-brexit Nice to see that after stupidly taking responsibility for the financial crisis New Labour is eager to take responsibility for Brexit now. Pure weapons-grade electability.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
I went through the list, deleted every one that wasn't caused by the EU. I was left with ten entries. Literally all of them were complaining about MEPs, foreigners, human rights, or nature conservation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:35
|
|
|
So in the last 24 hours the Tories have announced they are scrapping pointless re-assessment of people with permanent disabilities, holding a review to potentially give workers more rights, and promised £750 million in aid to Afghanistan. I wonder if this has anything to do with it being the day before their conference, and the dawning realisation they have literally nothing good to talk about.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 14:43
|
|
|
I have a blue passport.  It's just not my UK one 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 15:26
|
|
|
I have a black cover for my passport, I like it better than red or blue.jabby posted:Tories ... holding a review to potentially give workers more rights
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 15:33
|
|
|
jabby posted:So in the last 24 hours the Tories have announced they are scrapping pointless re-assessment of people with permanent disabilities, holding a review to potentially give workers more rights, and promised £750 million in aid to Afghanistan. They've got that £3bn house building fund thing that's been all but announced. I expect that might get trotted out
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 15:45
|
|
|
But don't forget, opposing tory policies doesn't do anything by itself!
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 15:54
|
|
|
ronya posted:really unfortunate that these are the lessons being drawn Or 'we became complacent with loving the working class over economically because who else are they gonna vote for  ' and hey look Farage gave them a scapegoat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:Or 'we became complacent with loving the working class over economically because who else are they gonna vote for as the article itself acknowledges, Campbell felt that immigration was beneficial and was not loving over the working class economically - particularly in the form of paying for public services that could not otherwise be paid for; this can be observed in a lot of other New Labour writing both contemporaneous and retrospective the point, rather, was that the public benefit and the public consciousness of this benefit is not the same thing, as any student of false consciousness could tell you
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 16:22
|
|
|
ronya posted:as the article itself acknowledges, Campbell felt that immigration was beneficial and was not loving over the working class economically Where did I say that the immigration is what was loving over the working class? I'm thinking more the continued pursuit of neoliberalism, reducing workers' rights e.g. by introducing the year limit before you can go to an industrial tribunal, casualisation of employment, you know, a lot of the stuff that made New Labour New and attracted moderate Tory voters (temporarily). Farage was able to make immigration the scapegoat for everything that's gone wrong in Labour's former electoral strongholds in the North, but that's because Blairism has spent the last two decades giving essentially zero fucks about them compared to the middle classes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 17:15
|
|
|
Shrug. I'm going to speculate that Northern dissatisfaction had more to do with deindustrialization than any shits given about tribunals and otherwise-humiliating-appeals-to-state-power in the absence of any meaningful civil-society identity. You can pin that on neoliberalism as well - globalization deskilling casualization etc - but it's not something that New Labour felt it was able to resist, in any case. ronya fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Oct 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 17:18
|
|
|
ronya posted:Shrug. I'm going to speculate that Northern dissatisfaction had more to do with deindustrialization than any shits given about tribunals and otherwise-humiliating-appeals-to-state-power in the absence of any meaningful civil-society identity. Deindustrialisation, lack of investment, ghettoisation, the chicken and egg farce of "anyone who's talented just moves to London" and decades of casual mockery from most British comedies. Even motherfucking Stewart Lee takes the piss out of people who have the missfortune to be born outside of London/THE SOUTH. Now this was Stewart Lee so it might have been buried under 9 layers of contradicting meta-ironic narrative but still it made me do a frowny face 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 17:36
|
|
|
Not to mention the demonization and sanctimonious impoverishment of the unemployed, which naturally affects deindustrialized areas.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
I like the comments where people discovered the address leads to a garage owned by Poles.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 17:46
|
|
I can't get enough of are Dan
|
Not to worry guys, IDS's think tank has a good handle on how to negotiate Brexit. https://lif.blob.core.windows.net/lif/docs/default-source/publications/the-road-to-brexit-pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=0 e: gently caress, I though this was just a think tank report quote:On Friday 9th September, Ministers, senior officials from the Brexit departments, Number 10 and Cabinet We are so screwed. e2: I just want to quote the whole loving thing. quote:Peter Lilley argued that once out of the EU the UK could be a leader for free trade worldwide. The quote:In the discussion it was pointed out the Bill would need to tidy up jurisdictional issues where quote:This was echoed by Owen Paterson who pointed out UK farming was held back by EU controls quote:Much of this challenge would exist without Article 50, but Article 50 threatens to make leaving Wolfsbane fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Oct 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
ronya posted:really unfortunate that these are the lessons being drawn ronya posted:as the article itself acknowledges, Campbell felt that immigration was beneficial and was not loving over the working class economically - particularly in the form of paying for public services that could not otherwise be paid for; this can be observed in a lot of other New Labour writing both contemporaneous and retrospective I'm surprised you expected the analysis from New Labour to be anything else. How could it ever be? It would go against the fundamental reasoning behind the creation of New Labour. The Labour right has been calling for anti-immigration policies for years. It's a core part of their 2015 post election analysis. All the talk about "reconnecting with the voters" didn't mean internationalist class consciousness. It meant adopting anti-immigration policies, not 'sixth form left wing nonsense' about false consciousness. "In Britain you can't win on a pro-immigration platform". I think this is probably going to be the electability argument from the Labour 'moderates' for the next 30 years, just like fiscal responsibility, taming the unions etc was for the last 30. Of course it's pointless coming from New Labour figures. They are forever associated with 'breaking' the country with immigration. It makes as much sense as Tony Benn running for PM in 1997 on a New Labour platform.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:03
|
|
|
Wolfsbane posted:We are happy with the status quo Well that's settled then. No need to invoke article 50. Problem solved.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:05
|
|
|
ronya posted:You can pin that on neoliberalism as well - globalization deskilling casualization etc - but it's not something that New Labour felt it was able to resist, in any case. I do, and that is what is wrong with New Labour. It didn't even try to resist. Edit: where are you from out of curiosity? Over here we normally don't use quite so many zs. :p feedmegin fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Oct 1, 2016 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
feedmegin posted:Edit: where are you from out of curiosity? Over here we normally don't use quite so many zs. :p 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
I got a leaflet for the Lib Dems touting them as opposition to the Conservatives. I know the public is meant to have a short memory...
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/guardianworld/status/782176125766152192
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:22
|
|
|
dispatch_async posted:The Labour right has been calling for anti-immigration policies for years. It's a core part of their 2015 post election analysis. All the talk about "reconnecting with the voters" didn't mean internationalist class consciousness. It meant adopting anti-immigration policies, not 'sixth form left wing nonsense' about false consciousness. the public dislikes immigrants and immigration. And if New Labour adopted anti-immigration policies, anybody who looks at migration statistics 1997-2010 is going to be very surprised indeed. this is not a new and novel insight - you have to have a truly blinkered reading of postwar Britain to forget the tenor of politics around the Commonwealth Immigrants Acts, and that was during the golden age of social democracy and third-world politics of solidarity, as a reminder. Back when "third way" meant something else altogether. There is never an internationalist class consciousness. the trick - as New Labour understood it - was to tell the public they could have it both ways, and then stack policy to the left anyway. The public is also fundamentally innumerate and you can get away by stacking a lot of policy effects together; at least some of them will point rightward and you can wave those about to show how Tough you are. As with being tough-on-crime and tough-on-poverty and education-education-education, you can tighten screws in some areas and loosen them in others, but what really matters is the wider distributive impact.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
ronya posted:really unfortunate that these are the lessons being drawn Well it's obviously an issue considering far right parties have gone from 0% to the second biggest political party in many states across europe. It's not that you need to be against immigration, but the left has just completely ignored the issue altogether which alienates moderates in the middle and pushes them to the right. I guess you can just  because hell they are just dumb racists but the problem is that objectively has not worked.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:36
|
|
|
lol I literally read an article this morning where ukip said he definitely wasnt going to do exactly this
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:44
|
|
|
Carecat posted:I got a leaflet for the Lib Dems touting them as opposition to the Conservatives. I know the public is meant to have a short memory... CON =============================]40% LAB ===] 35% <- Can't win here!
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
XMNN posted:lol I literally read an article this morning where ukip said he definitely wasnt going to do exactly this Sadly farage is actually pretty good at arguing simple points that will go down well with trump style support. If he can coach trump himself remains to be seen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 18:59
|
|
|
ronya posted:this is not a new and novel insight - you have to have a truly blinkered reading of postwar Britain to forget the tenor of politics around the Commonwealth Immigrants Acts, and that was during the golden age of social democracy and third-world politics of solidarity, as a reminder. Back when "third way" meant something else altogether. There is never an internationalist class consciousness. And one of the first things to happen after the Monday Club's 1962 Commonwealth Immigrants Act was Jamaica saying get hosed and declaring independence. Tories pushed away what they used to call their Jewel of the Caribbean because they were scared of black people.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
Trump doesn't need coaching he needs sedating, unless nige is going to America with a big bag of ketamine in his rectum he's not going to be much help
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 07:32 |
|
|
Jippa posted:Sadly farage is actually pretty good at arguing simple points that will go down well with trump style support. If he can coach trump himself remains to be seen. his main strategy seems to be getting shitfaced on beer for the public so this might not translate to trump
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2016 19:15
|
|
