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Apologies: I'm only trying to bring up the fact that the definition of mental illness isn't something that came down from god but something that we collectively define as a society throughout history. If this is ruining the thread where we very rationally and scientifically discuss whether or not we should categorize our political enemies as mentally ill, then feel free to prove me right by declaring me to be mentally ill I guess.
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Oct 9, 2016 03:04
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Dr. AA Hazredstein posted:I think you might be posting in the wrong forum. Denying the existence of mental illness would probably be best pursued over here. seems like a bit of a reach
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Oct 9, 2016 03:47
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Bob le Moche posted:Maybe being depressed is not a mental illness because sometimes people actually have terrible lives and no power at all to change that and the only thing they achieve by not being depressed is making it easier for others to take advantage of them Sometimes people eat a bunch of hot peppers and get diarrhea, that doesn't mean all stomach illness is some fake thing just because sometimes you get the same symptoms from environmental factors.
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Oct 9, 2016 04:47
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Extreme0 posted:Hmmm...You don't want people to be called mentally ill because of having a different political opinion and yet you think otherwise with the far-left/right? Quite hypocritical there. I feel that people who have dissenting opinions from mine are, for the most part, sane. But that once they sink into the irrational and illogical beliefs (very subjective) they might be playing with fire. For example, being all gung-ho for eugenics is super loving terrible but not crazy. quote:Who said I stop at undesirables? And I would watch the world burn in a massive nonstop fire. It be the biggest bonfire ever. Mass destruction is bad and eugenics is bad. These are bad things you are espousing. Please stop and reevaluate your beliefs. If the human population suddenly had a multi-generational surge of babies being born with severe mental and/or physical disabilities then some form of mitigation might be necessary after, like, hundreds of years of that happening. Because we would not be able to maintain the healthy working population to pay into the social systems to support them. But even then, that would be incredibly extreme. At this point in time and history where the disabled are a not born in huge numbers and remain a minority in the population a support of eugenics is, IMHO, utterly obscene. Dead Cosmonaut posted:Calling Hitler insane is bad in the same sense of calling serial killers that: it absolves of them of the responsibly of having made any conscious decisions that were horrible. This is very true and very important. The poster quoted below put it best. Believing and/or doing really lovely and evil things does not make you crazy but sometimes people who believe and/or do really evil and lovely things are crazy. Determining "just an rear end in a top hat" from "mouth frothing basket case" is best left to the professionals. But I personally think it's safe to assume that if a person believes fluoride lets the government mind control you, chem trails, that the government is run by the Illuminati/Secret cabal of snake or lizard people and other poo poo like that they might have mental problems. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Being stupid or uneducated doesn't mean crazy. Exactly, lovely evil beliefs are not inherently crazy but crazy ones are. Samog posted:it absolutely is, you've just chosen to draw the line at "this person reblogs Fox News" instead of "this person votes Tory" People who reblog Fox News and vote Tory are not mentally ill. In fact, we need rational, logical, scientific and data-driven, fact-supported conservatism to have a balanced society and keep us filthy unwashed liberals in check before we do something stupid like create a utopian socialist welfare state. The problem is the popular brand of conservative (at least in the US) appears to be bigoted, climate change denying, warmongers. And while those beliefs are not crazy or a sign of mental illness they are unfathomably stupid. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Why shouldn't you count that? Other than some idea that mental illness is sinful or a personal weakness? And that if it is anything but super rare that that is something gone wrong or someone exaggerating the numbers. I like this. This guy gets it. There is nothing "bad" or "wrong" about being mentally ill. It definitely should not be vilified or reviled. Mentally ill people are just people who need a little more help and support than the average person. Sometimes long term, sometimes short term. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the best way to address and combat extreme beliefs is to improve the inflicted's quality of life. Provide support, jobs, opprotunties, better wages, affordable access to physical and mental care and such. I would like to see us, as a society, starting to move in this direction. But it's really hard when conservatives have convinced roughly half the population to vote against their best interests. To be ashamed and reluctant to seek assistance and aid. And to view those who are receiving social and public assistance with resentment and hostility. People who fail to see the huge benefit to society public and social aid are and instead view it as just handouts for lazy people who should be working really sadden me. People who don't want to pay into public schools and such, for whatever reason, depress me. It is important to emphasize that people who hold really dickish beliefs are not always terrible people. Not every racist is going out committing hate crimes. Most of them just live their day to day lives in relative peace and are completely ignorant of how their political ideologies and supported candidates and legislation are completely loving over minorities and the underprivileged. Hopefully they'll come around?
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Oct 9, 2016 04:52
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I didn't mean to deny the existence of depression symptoms, which would be an extremely lovely thing to do to people who actually suffer from them. I was trying to bring attention to environmental causes, and the chili pepper metaphor is a good one. Also, in the world, there are some culinary cultures that rely on the availability of abundant pepto-bismol more than others. Now, a thought I had about the thread topic: If you ask commies, they will say that it makes sense that some people have different views than them: There are people who benefit from the institution of private property, and radical leftists fully expect these people to be their political enemies. Not because they are *wrong*, but because they have different political interests. What lefties will argue, though, is that most people out there are being lied to and fooled into supporting politics that go against their interests, and instead favor the interests of the ruling class. This still constitutes an explanation for where these politics come from other than just "insanity": these politics do benefit some people. If you ask Trump voters, I suspect most will say that it makes sense for, say, Mexican immigrants, or Muslims, to be anti-Trump. They might see their opponents as subhumans or having bad genetics, but they don't really expect everyone to espouse the same far-right views. They will argue that welfare queens, and the gays, and latte millenials vote for big government because they want it to continue to pay for their lifestyle, because it benefits them, which is an explanation that sees their opponents as having a self-interest goal and the ability to act towards it. Some of them are also stockpiling weapons for the upcoming race war, because they do not really expect black folks to simply accept the righteous white supremacy without being forced to through violence. But if you talk to some Liberals, there seems to be a different attitude where, because liberalism is the rational solution to the problem of "what is the greater good", everyone should logically agree with it, and if they don't, then it's because there's something wrong with them. Why can't they see that liberalism is just the correct opinion? There is a kind denial of politics in the sense that there is no room in this conception of politics for opposing camps except for abberant and irrational ones. No population will really benefit from promoting the politics of the far right or the far left, so only insane or evil people would do it, and as people who recognize what the greater good is, we are the ones who know what is actually best for them. I don't believe that liberalism is immune to what some would call totalitarian tendencies.
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Oct 9, 2016 05:30
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:The psychologist Bob Altemeyer did a series of studies on personality traits common to conservatives, which are summed up under the variable right-wing authoritarianism. That article gives a good overview but Altemeyer's book is interesting too, and free to download.
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Oct 9, 2016 07:32
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Dead Reckoning posted:I've always thought Altemeyer was a bit of a hack, given that he designed a game that rewards cooperation and altruism, played on a world map and then tried to use that as evidence that cooperative and altruistic people were better equipped to deal with the world's problems. It is as stupid as proving the deficiencies of pacifism by having people play Risk. I want him to run his game again with a room full of Trumps. Maybe run it with a room full of "socialists". Sound like an interesting sort of time.
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Oct 9, 2016 08:05
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rudatron posted:Foucault was a pedophile who wanted to abolish the age of consent. Woolie Wool posted:Like anybody would willingly read his impenetrable rambling without a professor making them do it. Dr. AA Hazredstein posted:I think you might be posting in the wrong forum. Denying the existence of mental illness would probably be best pursued over here. These are all loving terrible posts. Bob le Moche posted:But if you talk to some Liberals, there seems to be a different attitude where, because liberalism is the rational solution to the problem of "what is the greater good", everyone should logically agree with it, and if they don't, then it's because there's something wrong with them. Why can't they see that liberalism is just the correct opinion? There is a kind denial of politics in the sense that there is no room in this conception of politics for opposing camps except for abberant and irrational ones. No population will really benefit from promoting the politics of the far right or the far left, so only insane or evil people would do it, and as people who recognize what the greater good is, we are the ones who know what is actually best for them. I don't believe that liberalism is immune to what some would call totalitarian tendencies. This is a good post. Lots of poo poo in there to unpack - while my snide response is that perhaps liberalism is just another word for historical ignorance, I don't think any of these symptoms are intrinsic to liberalism necessarily. It's likely they are endemic to the political ideology that currently has a power monopoly on the social discourse in a given society. Even the characterization of political views as existing along a two-dimensional spectrum with liberalism in the middle is an inherently liberal conception designed to make itself look like its got a monopoly on rationality. The truth is that your big three high-modernist political ideologies - fascism, liberalism (in the classical sense, so including American conservatism and libertarianism) and socialism have very little in common. Different basic definitions and conceptual frameworks, different ideals and values, different analytical tools and reasoning processes, different streams of historical origination. None of them are really able to communicate with one another very well because even the same words have different meanings within the different frameworks. Hence, you know, World War 2 and stuff. We are live in a liberal age in liberal societies - the vast majority of us are inculcated with classically liberal frameworks from an early age and taught the history that liberalism tells about itself. Liberalism is the ideology that the liberal system reproduces in people in order to reproduce itself. If you're going with the flow and immersed in mainstream social institutions you're going to have a liberal outlook by default even if you have no real political convictions. Mental illnesses and political ideologies that are not liberalism have one thing in common in a liberal social context - they are fundamentally unable to effectively communicate with the mainstream discourse apparatus. From within liberalism this appears to be a correlation between insanity and 'fringe' ideologies. There is no direct causative link, although living in a liberal society with an irreducibly alien interpretive framework is really loving alienating and isolating, which isn't all that great for mental stability. emTme3 fucked around with this message at 08:55 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 08:47
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Conservatism is very much associated with the kind of feeling that would be conducive to developing some kind of mental illness The essence of Conservatism is that things are adequate, any change could diminish this, so therefore any change is bad. Even more extreme examples believe that things are not adequate, and are actually terrible, because things have changed too much and it wasn't like it was back in some vaguely misremembered or even invented past, so therefore it is their duty to get things back to 'how they were' Going through life with a constant fear of change, longing for the past, deep paranoia about the world and the forces that conspire etc. is probably not going to do a lot for your mental health.
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Oct 9, 2016 18:55
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I feel like the word Insane has too many different meanings now for what it was originally meant to be. If I'm going to go call someone insane, it's not because they are mentally ill but because they don't hold their argument seriously enough to work in reality. I feel like how most people use the word nowadays isn't actually based solely on the mental illness anymore. But if people are upset over that then I guess another word will be used. What I don't know. Jenner posted:For example, being all gung-ho for eugenics is super loving terrible but not crazy. Hail that mah brotha from another bloodline. Jenner posted:Mass destruction is bad and eugenics is bad. These are bad things you are espousing. Please stop and reevaluate your beliefs. Already said eugenics was a waste of time and inmoral when there is no actual rational motive for it. Mass destruction on the other hand is actually good and more people should be for it because I get to watch everyone in agony to satisfy my needs of pure chaos. Jenner posted:If the human population suddenly had a multi-generational surge of babies being born with severe mental and/or physical disabilities then some form of mitigation might be necessary after, like, hundreds of years of that happening. Because we would not be able to maintain the healthy working population to pay into the social systems to support them. But even then, that would be incredibly extreme. You mistakingly call me bad and yet the only reason you be up for reducing newborns who are unfortunate to recieve any life-altering disablity is because it be too 'costly'. You care more for your wallet rather then finding out why newborns are becoming more and more deformed and in terrible pain. Money is the least of the problems when a species is starting to become more corrupted from disease and genetic inheritance of life inducing problems. Jenner posted:Hopefully they'll come around? It's better to just get rid of them rather then wait for a uncertain amount of time until they turn over a new leaf. Do you think the likes of revolts and revolutions happen because people waited for those who are in a better situation then them to give a poo poo about them? We only live a short amount of time and people have a limit to what conditions they live in before they start to become either rational and collective enough to fix the problem or irrational and selfish that they scapegoat the blame on something else. Rush Limbo posted:Conservatism is very much associated with the kind of feeling that would be conducive to developing some kind of mental illness I like this guy. Time and Reality dosen't give a poo poo and we should be progressing through the road rather then stay in the same spot. Staying in the same spot changes nothing. it dosen't change the problems and it dosen't fix them.
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Oct 11, 2016 23:03
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