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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:The vast majority of careers do not require a graduate degree. Most graduate degrees do not point towards a viable career, and those that do still mean a large investment in taking a specific direction that you might find out you don't care for. It's not like a bachelor's, where having one automatically gives you a leg up in a wide variety of potential careers. OP wants to put new wallpaper up so they're asking A/T for recommendations for hammers.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:29
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loving goon down the well AGAIN.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:54
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:loving goon down the well AGAIN.
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Oct 19, 2016 18:58
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My only other advice is to do teaching if you want to do teaching. I don't know what the jobs related to Comp Ling would be or if you would need a PhD to get them, but if that's what you want to do and there are actually jobs there then do that. I did the research on teaching for myself but thought about it and realized the only reason I gave a gently caress about it was because it was an easy way to live in Thailand again. I don't like teaching though and my age makes it fiscally stupid. Couldn't have it all. I was also growingly displeased with medicine which is, intellectually, almost never more than a table matching exercise and made a huge pivot away from all of that towards something that a) has good earning potential and b) has some genuine intellectual merit. In many ways it will be like you are 18 leaving highschool again. Don't shy away from that rubric though -- genuinely if you were 18 again what would you tell yourself to do? If it's "get a job on the railroad and start buying franchise restaurants like crazy" then do that. You've got enough experience to practically (instead of just idealistically) advise yourself, so listen. raton fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Oct 19, 2016 |
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Oct 19, 2016 22:02
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You should not go to grad school unless it's for an MBA. Otherwise, you should go to a code academy then move to Austin/Seattle/SF. I am not being facetious, this is genuine advice. The ROI and opportunity cost of most graduate programs is terrible.
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Oct 20, 2016 01:03
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Some more good advice here. I do appreciate the input. I think some of the disconnect is that it's hard to paint all post-graduate degrees with the same brush, and the people who are disappointed to have chosen the academic route were forgoing other options aside from "do part-time, temporary, non-professional work until you retire destitute," which is all I see on the horizon with my current experience and qualifications. That's why most TEFLers are forced abroad again before too long when they do decide to return. Whereas some people here are giving advice from inside academia warning that a) you won't make it here unless you eat, dream, and breathe your specialization (and even then, you probably won't) and b) your degree will be worthless (assuming you graduate) when you want to go back into the workforce, or the studying will have been a waste of time, or are assuming that debt will be accrued unnecessarily, I will take these perspectives seriously, and they're not points I haven't heard before. On the other hand, I have a relative who is more familiar with my situation, was the director of a graduate program for many years, and is telling me that going back to school eventually will be my best option. Let's say, in a few years, some Ph.D. program is willing to take a chance on me, and that the tuition is covered and I'm given enough money to live on while studying. What harm will be done if I cannot finish the degree or even do finish but am unable to use it to find a decent job? I could still always to teach abroad again, and in the worst case, would be back where I started maybe having lost a few years of experience doing something else (or a few years of surviving and doing something that leads nowhere anyway). Are there no important skills that can be gained along the way? What about connections? I guess you could argue that having a masters or Ph.D. on your resume makes you less employable for some things, but that's about all I can think of. If further study is such a terrible option, at least give me an idea about what you think I should do. Teaching is fine. I love teaching. I'll probably do it if there's an available path for me to make it a career. I love studying, and I'm a great student. I'm interested in many things, and very interested in some things. Computer coding would be all right. I've done some before but know a lot of people who were way more into it than I was and are still struggling to make it into a career. Someone made a point that studying past the masters level is not about getting a job but about wanting to study that thing forever. Maybe that is what it means, but certainly there are Ph.D.s working in industry. More than just being able to get a job, I need to find out where I fit into American society. If that means studying forever (and being poor), it might mean studying forever. Maybe I don't fit in anywhere. I'm trying to find that out. *prepares to get shouted at again*
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Oct 20, 2016 04:29
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What do you want to do for a living? Figure that out, and then if grad school will help you to do that, you'll have a better plan.
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Oct 20, 2016 04:35
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ultrafilter posted:What do you want to do for a living? Figure that out, and then if grad school will help you to do that, you'll have a better plan. OP, this.
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Oct 20, 2016 14:15
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You have a bachelor's in electrical engineering, why not take a look at the Maritime Transport thread here on A/T and see if you feel the siren call of becoming a ship engineer. If you try it and it doesn't end up being your thing, apparently it's common to segue from that career path over to shoreside power plants
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Oct 20, 2016 15:59
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I did EFL teaching then got my professional 2 year Master's Degree. Now I'm making good money despite the loans. Don't go into academia, but a professional degree can definitely be worth it. There's definitely an element of luck as well.
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Oct 21, 2016 00:55
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itstime4lunch posted:
The harm is the IMMENSE opportunity cost and the fact that you are destroying the most important years of your work history. Consider this: as a PhD in their early 30s going on the non-academic job market you are competing for entry level positions with people in their early to mid 20s. No, your doctorate doesn't get you a better position when you're hired outside of a few very specific examples (working in a commercial lab with a chem PhD, for example). All the jobs you're applying for want 2-3 years of experience for what they describe as entry level positions. Oh yeah, and since you're not 25 any more (unlke the other people applying for those jobs) you probably have responsibilities and expenses that make living on a crap wage suck. In your early 20s eating garbage and living in a slum isn't nearly as big a deal. Oh yeah, and then you hit your early 30s and start looking at the fact that you have gently caress all for retirement saved. No biggie, most of your friends don't either. But wait, most of your friends are also making 3x what you're HOPING you get because they have 10+ years of work history and getting progressively more responsible and better paid jobs. It's a really, really hosed position to be in. [ask] me about having a PhD and working part time for $15/hr!
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Oct 21, 2016 02:13
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itstime4lunch posted:
I don't have any evidence but I really doubt a ten year old electrical engineering degree is useless. You might have to brush up, maybe take some classes and take some kind of internship but you could do it. Electrical engineering hasn't changed that much in the last ten years I wouldn't think. But you don't want to, right? As for CS, yes, it is very do-able. I finished a master's in cs in two years while working full time. I came in knowing nothing and having just an english degree. It was hard but I've been working in the field for 2+ years now and it's good. You've got to clarify what your goals are, I think. Do you want a good career path that could provide financial stability? Something that is interesting or fulfilling even though it might lead to financial struggles? Something else?
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Oct 21, 2016 05:37
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Just read the first couple posts in the thread, but it sounds like you are into teaching and also have a degree in engineering. Are you interested in teaching engineering/robotics/STEM? You could pretty easily take some teaching classes as well as passing some basic teacher exams and be a certified teacher in your subject area easily in many states. Getting a masters in education would make sure you have all the needed education credits while also prepping you for the exams. I think it is a pretty easy transition to go from teaching overseas to teaching back in the USA. As long as you were actually teaching in Asia and not just partying it up.
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Oct 23, 2016 20:34
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I'm another PhD here to chime in that you probably don't want to enter a PhD program. And this is coming from someone who is gainfully employed in a field that is semi-relevant to my PhD.Ytlaya posted:One aspect of this I've always been a little confused about is how you could possibly know that you'd really enjoy and be passionate about a particular area of research before actually having any experience doing that research. I know one guy who decided he really wanted to go to grad school in his mid-thirties. However, he quickly figured out that he'd need to get a relevant undergraduate degree first. So he went back to undergrad, did that, studied really hard, then went to grad school. After a decade of work, he's probably going to have to leave the field in his mid 40s and start over again. It's not easy to break into academia. itstime4lunch posted:Let's say, in a few years, some Ph.D. program is willing to take a chance on me, and that the tuition is covered and I'm given enough money to live on while studying. What harm will be done if I cannot finish the degree or even do finish but am unable to use it to find a decent job? If you manage to find a program that lets you in and will pay you to go, awesome. Although you should also consider the fact that you might hate it and it comes with massive opportunity costs, as Cyrano4747 points out. Also, you're unlikely to get a job out of it. itstime4lunch posted:Does anyone know anything about or have experience with computational linguistics or natural language processing? itstime4lunch posted:I did get this impression from applying. Do you have a link to where I could get some statistics? I would hope that already having 6,000+ classroom hours plus a long history of working with students from lower income levels would give some kind of leg up, but who knows? TFA has an acceptance rate that's <15%. There's also some controversy about whether-or-not they accomplish anything positive, given the amount of resources they burn and the small percentage of teachers they have that stay in once their TFA contract is up. quote:Is programming actually easy to get into? I do have some programming experience dating back all the way to high school. Take some Coursera courses on programming and see if it's something you actually enjoy. If so, you might want to look into self-teaching or getting into some sort of program (undergraduate or graduate) in the states. Shooting Blanks posted:Get a JD, the US always needs more lawyers. If you know teaching is what you like and you have relevant experience in it, then that seems like the straightest path. Do some research, figure out where it'll be easiest to get a foot in the door, and go for that.
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Oct 26, 2016 19:51
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Don't be a lawyer there are a thousand people graduating with law degrees right now that can't find a job. Pick a job you want, and work backwards from that - does it require more education? If so, do that thing. Figure out your long-term goal(s) and the path will make itself apparent.
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Oct 27, 2016 05:16
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Echoing don't do a PhD. A masters is okay if it is funded. If you're not getting a tuition waiver and living stipend it is not worth it. This is also true for PhDs although those are usually funded while many/most masters programs will not be. I would suggest looking at job options with your electrical engineering degree. Maybe you can get some specialized training or certification and do something cool with that, I'm not really familiar with the field. Basically, black.lion posted:Pick a job you want, and work backwards from that - does it require more education? If so, do that thing. Figure out your long-term goal(s) and the path will make itself apparent. Don't go to grad school unless your dream job absolutely requires the degree and/or you can't imagine yourself doing anything other than studying narrow topic X for the rest of your life. Edit: to provide some more context for PhD programs, you are not really applying to a program so much as you are to work with a professor (mentor) on a specific topic or project. You need to identify professors doing research you're keenly interested in and contact them directly. Think of it more like an apprenticeship. "Hi Dr., I read your recent publications on marine stable isotope biogeochemistry and am particularly interested in how you use compound-specific nitrogen isotopes to measure nitrogen fixation. I am wondering if you currently have funding for and are accepting new students? I have attached my CV and would very much enjoy hearing more about your work." Do you have any research experience? If you don't have any research experience and haven't identified a very narrow field (and professors who work in it you'd like to study under), don't even bother applying for a PhD. There is also an absolute glut of PhDs on the market right now, largely this is because they're overproduced. They're cheap labor for teaching and research so universities graduate far more PhDs than there is actual demand for. The title of your thread is a pretty good indicator that grad school is not a good option for you in the near-term. If you're still asking "what should I study?" you are not ready yet. A fun quote from my mentor to end this rant: quote:When you start your PhD you will feel like you know nothing. A few years in, you will know more about your thesis topic than I do. By the time you are ready to graduate you will think I am an idiot. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Oct 27, 2016 |
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Oct 27, 2016 06:03
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Pellisworth posted:Edit: to provide some more context for PhD programs, you are not really applying to a program so much as you are to work with a professor (mentor) on a specific topic or project. You need to identify professors doing research you're keenly interested in and contact them directly. Think of it more like an apprenticeship. This varies a lot by field and country. In the US, if you're applying to economics programs, it would be at least a minor faux pas to contact professors before you're accepted.
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Oct 27, 2016 14:45
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Spend some time reading academic literature in areas that interest you and see what happens. Grad school is a decent idea for a master's degree, but a PhD is a serious commitment. Since you are older,, the dynamics are a bit different. In my own case I have several passions that could sustain a PhD, but the realities are a bit harsher. My background is in condensed matter physics, but my PhD actually involves using some methods I've developed to study some aspects of manned spaceflight. This has won me funding, which is why I do it. It is interesting, for sure, and people can relate to it much better than my previous work, but my passion rarely exceeds "warm", whatever that means. So wrapping this thing up is a painful experience -- luckily this is all happening very quickly at the tail-end of my time in school, so I can bear it. Plus the funding aspect allows me to pursue additional interests (e.g., climate research, my older work, social organizing). This switch is primarily the result of an old guy with physics envy and what now appears to be alzheimers not particularly liking me, by the way, so YMMV. edit: I suppose I am echoing the sentiment of "don't do the PhD". The thread title is indeed a red flag. Master's isn't a bad idea if you can get it funded (as a TA, RA, or something of the sort).
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Oct 27, 2016 17:38
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Thanks all for the different views and advice. I've been away from the thread for a few days because I've been busy applying for stuff. TFA interview is coming up along with some others. Still looking at becoming a high school math teacher as Plan A (will require some extra undergrad courses plus a year of a masters program to become licensed), because I like teaching and math, I'm good at math, and it looks like it has pretty good career prospects. I'm going to apply to a couple masters in applied statistics programs as well just on the off chance they'd fund me. If not, going into that much debt without knowing what lies ahead is probably (as many here have pointed out) not a wise decision. I'll leave the thread open just in case there are any other comments, but I feel like I got what I wanted out of starting it, so thank you for your input.
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Oct 30, 2016 02:24
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we've saved another idiot from making the same mistake we did; good job, PhDs
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Oct 30, 2016 08:06
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PhD pessimism squad assemble! We're like the power rangers only with more tweed
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Oct 30, 2016 19:16
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Cyrano4747 posted:PhD pessimism squad assemble!
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Oct 30, 2016 19:17
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Cyrano4747 posted:We're like the power rangers only with more tweed The real power rangers probably drink less.
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Oct 30, 2016 21:06
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get a phd in rear end
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Oct 31, 2016 01:49
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Avshalom posted:get a phd in rear end one of my friends used to introduce me at bars as "this is Pellisworth, he's working on his second PhD" "his first one is Pretty Huge Dick"  I do not recommend this as a pick up line. HEY GAL posted:we've saved another idiot from making the same mistake we did; good job, PhDs tbf the OP is not an idiot because they have made the correct decision Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 14:02 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 13:57
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HEY GAL posted:one third of the goddamn military history thread is here, jfc lol
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Nov 2, 2016 04:27
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If you have to ask what to study in grad school, you really shouldn't be going to grad school. I'll emphasize that even more if you are planning on debt-financing grad school. Have a good time explaining your MA in Intersectional Catalan Linguistics to the HR person at your screening interview for an entry-level cubicle-farmer job at Cosmodemonococcyx Corporation, when you're $200,000 in debt for that degree.
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Nov 3, 2016 15:58
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Teaching isn't something I'd recommend unless you really feel the calling for it. Average starting salary for a BA - 0 teacher is usually around $35k max unless you get into a really nice district in a wealthier state. For MA - 0, add about $2-3k to the base pay. Personally: BS in 2005, certification in 2006. 6 months of subbing at $100 a day 2 years working IT in a school at $28k a year 2 years res life at a private board school for $14k a year First teaching job in 2010 but had to move to New Mexico to work in a crappy district for $28k a year starting, $31k by the time I left 3 years later. (picked up M.Ed in Admin during this time for $9k) 6 months working in St Paul for $55k a year, but it was a nightmare, left half through the year Took a admin job at a small rural charter in northern MN for $55k first year, second and third year actually took a pay cut to $51k and a job increase because we don't have the budget to spend. (working on Ed.S right now, will end up spending $20k but will be superintendent licensed at the end) Overall future goal is to be at district level operations for around 90k a year in the next few years. Nicer districts I could probably top out around $110k if I'm lucky. I'm 33 right now. It's been a tough road with a lot of pain...wouldn't recommend it to most people. I hear selling drugs is much easier.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:33
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Looking at a potential 90kbefore 40 really isn't terrible. I'm 33 with a PhD and would cut off all the fingers on my left hand with a bread knife for a job that paid $50k
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Nov 5, 2016 06:54
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If you have a PhD on Economics, especially Applied, or similar, look into consulting. Pay ranges from $70,k-$100k+.
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Nov 5, 2016 14:38
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ultrafilter posted:The purpose of a master's degree program is first and foremost to generate revenue for the program that offers it. That doesn't mean that master's degrees aren't useful, but that they don't really exist to serve the interests of students. Embrocation posted:Perhaps unfortunately, this can be said of any academic degree program, from bachelor's level on up.
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Nov 7, 2016 07:27
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Man, I would love to go back to grad. school someday. I am in the fairly enviable position of having married up, and I'm thinking about what I want to do with my life now that my kids are going into Kindergarten in a year (I'm a stay at home dad right now). I majored in history way back when, but thankfully have no inclination of getting a PhD in that field since I can't see myself dealing with the language requirements (who has the time to learn 2 or 3 languages?). Do tech companies hire rookies in their early to mid 30s, or is there ageism thing with them? Right now my plan is to take a few odd courses at the local CC in classes I never thought to take as an undergrad and see if anything strikes my fancy.
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Nov 8, 2016 07:56
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I majored in history way back when, but thankfully have no inclination of getting a PhD in that field since I can't see myself dealing with the language requirements (who has the time to learn 2 or 3 languages?).
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Nov 8, 2016 11:23
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mystes posted:This is not strictly speaking true; in many disciplines, PhD students don't have to pay at all. Rather, the programs exist to serve the much more noble purpose of providing dirt cheap labor. yep not to engage in a long and fairly angry rant, but PhDs (even in STEM, I'm a chemist and biologist) are massively overproduced relative to their demand because PhD students are cheap labor for research and teaching in the sciences, PhD students do 95% of the actual laboratory and field research plus teach most of the labs and discussion sections for their university's classes. their mentors mostly write grant applications and publish research. which is not at all to say that PhD mentors are lazy, quite the opposite, they are simply forced to spend most of their time chasing grant money to fund their (your!) research. to be perfectly blunt it's a bit of a racket economically right now, but my PhD is in Ocean Science ok?  on the plus side, no debt, I only had to work 70-80 incredibly stressful hours per week for six years while being paid barely enough to live on. NO STUDENT DEBT though, amen. edit: to be absurdly reductionist about it, there's a reason it will probably cost you a couple hundred thousand dollars to become a medical doctor or lawyer in the US while getting a PhD is "free." doctors and lawyers can expect to earn a lot and so the university can charge them a bunch of tuition, while PhDs are mostly cheap labor for the university and have a fairly terrible average income after graduation. if you still want to do a PhD after all these scary posts, go for it. if you're the least bit intimidated DON'T loving DO IT Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Nov 8, 2016 |
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Nov 8, 2016 14:51
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Do tech companies hire rookies in their early to mid 30s, or is there ageism thing with them?
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Nov 8, 2016 15:29
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Pellisworth posted:not to engage in a long and fairly angry rant, but PhDs (even in STEM, I'm a chemist and biologist) are massively overproduced relative to their demand because PhD students are cheap labor for research and teaching As a clever author put it, PhDs are a byproduct of the academic system, not the actual product.
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Nov 8, 2016 15:51
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ultrafilter posted:As a clever author put it, PhDs are a byproduct of the academic system, not the actual product. Yeah. If I come across as bitter, that's entirely intentional. I spent six and a half years on a PhD in the sciences at a top-20 university and it is tragically unmarketable. Don't apply to a PhD program if you can imagine yourself doing anything else.
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Nov 8, 2016 15:57
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Came here to emphasize again that PhDs are an awful idea if you can even slightly imagine doing anything else. I love my field, I love old Latin and Greek junk, I love dead languages in general, but I'm not a normal well-adjusted person and even though I'm working with the greatest living authority on my topic, it's going to be really tough to find a job.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttrIPDFplU
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Nov 12, 2016 23:27
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