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Just saw this tonight. I thought it was an incredibly by the numbers hero's journey film that is elevated by the visually incredible and inventive fight setpieces. And Tilda is great. But if you just take out those fights, it felt very staid - kind of like superhero films before the MCU turned up. So it kind of escapes being "the Marvel film that finally fucks up" by the skin of its teeth. This might be a symptom of being an origin story though (albeit a necessary one - magic has to be carefully introduced into the MCU). Just from the after-credits scene I kind of felt like a Strange sequel could be a lot more confident and extreme.
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Oct 27, 2016 02:34
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Drink Top posted:As far as I know, the explanation for a lot of characters not healing their scars and injuries in the Marvel universe(s) are mental blocks. Like if the character just can't imagine being healed then they can't be healed. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Oct 27, 2016 |
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Oct 27, 2016 07:45
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jivjov posted:For those who saw it: do they use the Marvel Cinematic Universe studio fanfare? (this thing)? It has a new fanfare composed by Michael Giacchino (this thing)
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Oct 27, 2016 12:26
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Really enjoyed the film, the big climactic showdown between Strange and Dormammu is loving fantastic, I was not expecting them to play it so comedic, and Dormammu's,"....wait, what just happened?" moment in the middle of his big booming villain speech was great. Reminded me a bit of a similar moment from Guardians of the Galaxy where Quill starts dancing in the middle of Ronan's big speech and Ronan quietly mumbles,"Wha... what are you doing?"  Visually the film is spectacular, two big sequences in New York and Hong Kong I especially liked.
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Oct 27, 2016 12:46
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Is Doctor Strange a small indie movie with a very limited release in theaters or something? I literally cannot find a theater playing this film next week and I live in a major city.  I live right next to an AMC, this is not a small local indie theater, this is one of the biggest movie chains in the U.S. and somehow they are not playing this movie.
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Oct 27, 2016 13:14
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I said come in! posted:Is Doctor Strange a small indie movie with a very limited release in theaters or something? I literally cannot find a theater playing this film next week and I live in a major city. Well, the official release date isn't til Friday the 4th, so if you're looking for anything during the week proper, you won't find it. If not, do you have a competing theater in town? The city I work in has a Cinetopia and an AMC a few blocks apart, and every so often there's some kind of dispute between them and one of them won't get a major release. The AMC didn't get The Force Awakens, of all things, for example.
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Oct 27, 2016 13:26
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It's usually not a dispute, they usually have a deal in place with the other theater that they will rotate blockbusters.
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Oct 27, 2016 14:17
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jivjov posted:Well, the official release date isn't til Friday the 4th, so if you're looking for anything during the week proper, you won't find it. Just a small local theater that only plays on film at a time. They are getting Fantastic Beasts tho later next month and confirmed on their Twitter that they are not getting Doctor Strange. Is it maybe some sort of deal with Marvel/Disney that neither theater could work out? Hollywood is notoriously greedy, but I imagine getting the rights to play a film is very difficult and expensive.
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Oct 27, 2016 14:16
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I'd have to go dig up the article again, but I remember AMC getting in a tiff with Marvel a while back over how much of a cut the studio got vs how much the theater keeps. Maybe a similar thing happened here?
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Oct 27, 2016 15:24
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Jerusalem posted:Reminded me a bit of a similar moment from Guardians of the Galaxy where Quill starts dancing in the middle of Ronan's big speech and Ronan quietly mumbles,"Wha... what are you doing?" This was the dumbest loving thing I'd seen in a Marvel movie. And I've pretty much seen them all.
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Oct 27, 2016 15:54
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Comrade Fakename posted:Just saw this tonight. I thought it was an incredibly by the numbers hero's journey film that is elevated by the visually incredible and inventive fight setpieces. Yeah that was my initial reaction as well. It's kind of odd how safe they play it when audiences by this point would be familiar with films like Harry Potter and Hellboy and Pan's Labyrinth where an incredibly diverse and complex magical world exists alongside the mundane world but the fairies and trolls and all that are always kept just out of sight. In Dr Strange you pretty much just have a handful of sorcerers who keep to themselves most of the time and there's not really any indication that there's any other magical beings or even organisations on Earth. But I guess this is the MCU's introduction to magic so they wanted to ease audiences into it.
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Oct 27, 2016 16:29
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Drifter posted:This was the dumbest loving thing I'd seen in a Marvel movie. And I've pretty much seen them all. Well, that's...kinda the whole point. Quill knew he had to distract Ronan somehow, and just done the first thing that came to mind. It didn't need to be some kind of cunning plan, it just had to get Ronan's attention for a few seconds. Quill's no Batman, he doesn't have a contingency plan for every possible situation. He was a dude flying by the seat of his pants, and him dancing and talking poo poo to buy time was perfectly in character.
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Oct 27, 2016 18:50
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I'd suggest seeing a 3D version of this. The multiverse stuff is really cool with it.
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Oct 27, 2016 19:24
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Well, that's...kinda the whole point. Quill knew he had to distract Ronan somehow, and just done the first thing that came to mind. It didn't need to be some kind of cunning plan, it just had to get Ronan's attention for a few seconds. It's cool that's why he did it, I mean, it's easy to realize, I wasn't saying it wasn't out of character I was saying it was stupid loving poo poo. Maybe it was just the last insult to ANOTHER supervillain to make them retarded and bland, and it automatically primed me to dislike it, but the whole scene had this icanhascheezeburger level of comedy stuck right in the middle of a rather potentially dramatic and mildly interesting world's in danger scene. I'm cool for comedy, but I'm saying Quill popping open a cell phone and cutting to Jimmy Kimmel's celebrities read mean tweets to distract Ronan would have made just as much sense. Maybe Strange's encounter with the big D at the end is a slightly more satisfying level of comedy than the end of GotG with Ronan.
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Oct 27, 2016 19:27
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Good fun. As everyone has said it's quite by the numbers structurally, some of the narrative pace is a little off, but everyone is likeable and the imagination and spectacle of the fights is off the charts. It's solid. ^ Drifter. Theres nothing like the Ronan scene. The scene hes referring to is a scene that turns funny once you realise what the gig is. It's less like that scene and much more like (huge conceptual spoilers) the death montage from edge of tommorow, which was pretty grim and then darkly funny and finally just straight up funny. The funny to grim flows kind of the other way around here though. Pingiivi posted:I'd suggest seeing a 3D version of this. The multiverse stuff is really cool with it. It really is and it works well to making things feel infinite and it's occasionally just kind of breathtaking. It made every fast cutting action scenes in the real world really hard to follow for me though. ShineDog fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 01:23
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Yeah that was my initial reaction as well. It's kind of odd how safe they play it when audiences by this point would be familiar with films like Harry Potter and Hellboy and Pan's Labyrinth where an incredibly diverse and complex magical world exists alongside the mundane world but the fairies and trolls and all that are always kept just out of sight. In Dr Strange you pretty much just have a handful of sorcerers who keep to themselves most of the time and there's not really any indication that there's any other magical beings or even organisations on Earth. Keep telling yourself that
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Oct 28, 2016 04:51
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Pretty much by the numbers plot. But to be honest, that's not really a problem - the visuals are amazing and there is a lot of cleverness in the magic and how it's used. Usually I would never say this but this is a movie that needs to be seen in 3D - it's an acid trip. Only real problem I had was it's a shortish movie. Highly enjoyable, great visuals, nicely understated humour, a much stronger third act than usual for Marvel too. Two after credits scenes.
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Oct 28, 2016 11:34
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Well, that was fun, I really enjoyed it. My visual cortex needs a break though.
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Oct 28, 2016 15:09
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What was best Marvel origin movie? I think Thor was the most original, because it's not a hero's journey, or even really an antihero's redemption. Thor's already a superhero from the start, he's just a little cocky and daddy sends him to Earth for a time-out so that he could think about what he did. When he gets to Earth, he doesn't act like a dick when confused by Earth culture. When they tell him "we don't smash our beer glasses here" he's like "OK, when in Rome..." He doesn't have to get lectured or anything or shown the error of his ways, because he's already a good guy in essence. He's just a little undisciplined. This movie, Doctor Strange, was just so, so predictable. It's exactly the kind of script I would have phoned in if I was hired to write this movie in between projects I cared more about. "Um, Strange loses his hands and visits Tibet, learns magic, and then he has to fight one of his teacher's old students who turned evil, and in the end he effectively takes over his teacher's position as Headmaster of Hogw... I mean Sorcerer Supreme." The sorcerers fight each other using martial arts, which is a rather odd thing to ask of a guy with crippled hands who is pushing 50 (his hair is starting to gray).
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Oct 28, 2016 17:41
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What's wrong with Doctor Strange being an origin movie? I felt like this was the best route to go, since they had to introduce such complex characters and the concept of magic within the MCU.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:16
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Jonny_Rocket posted:What's wrong with Doctor Strange being an origin movie? I felt like this was the best route to go, since they had to introduce such complex characters and the concept of magic within the MCU. Because it makes this a paint-by-numbers we've seen a dozen times already but with orange color instead of yellow.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:50
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Jonny_Rocket posted:What's wrong with Doctor Strange being an origin movie? I felt like this was the best route to go, since they had to introduce such complex characters and the concept of magic within the MCU. It just makes the MCU seem even more rote.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:54
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Jonny_Rocket posted:What's wrong with Doctor Strange being an origin movie? I felt like this was the best route to go, since they had to introduce such complex characters and the concept of magic within the MCU. He's not a complex character. "He was a great surgeon, his hands got all hosed up, he searched for a cure until he found a mystic order and became a powerful wizard" could have been done in a montage over the opening credits a la Incredible Hulk. Edit: I don't have a problem with origin movies, btw. And I don't have a problem with this. I'm just saying that this dude has a simple origin that you could fill in with a bit of Lord of the Rings style exposition.
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Oct 28, 2016 18:59
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:He's not a complex character. "He was a great surgeon, his hands got all hosed up, he searched for a cure until he found a mystic order and became a powerful wizard" could have been done in a montage over the opening credits a la Incredible Hulk. Doctor Strange is a character that only comic book fans know well. He's not really a well known character in the general public, much like Iron Man or Ant-Man. One big piece you're missing is the character's growth - sure, his journey might be similar to Iron Man (an arrogant, rich jerk learns humility and gains wisdom from personal tragedy) - but it's still important, and it's not something you can convey over a montage. Also, keep in mind, this is the first instance of magic within the MCU - essentially, we (as the audience) are discovering this whole new side of the Marvel Universe, including parallel dimensions, monsters, etc along with Steven Strange. It makes complete sense to me. MacheteZombie posted:It just makes the MCU seem even more rote. How so? While I understand not every new character introduced to the MCU needs an origin story, I don't really get this reasoning. Every one of the origin stories we've seen thus far have felt pretty different from one another (in my opinion), with the exception of how the story is structured.
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Oct 28, 2016 20:06
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A powerful wizard is actually a pretty tricky character to base a movie on right from the start unless you push them to the side and have some other character take centre stage and act as the audience's stand-in so the wizard has to explain everything clearly and patiently to them. This is even more true when it's someone like Dr Strange who is distant and remote to strangers and can appear aloof and secretive. He's a much more sympathetic character when he's struggling against a more powerful foe and it would be really hard to set that up at the start of a film if he's already an all-powerful Sorcerer Supreme without cramming in a pretty severe exposition dump. Think of all the other movie wizards: Merlin, Obi Wan Kenobi, Dumbledore, Maleficent, Gandalf, Mary Poppins, Harry Potter, etc etc.. They're either a mysterious being whose powers aren't really clearly defined and who move in and out of the story in order to affect the hero's journey or they get an origin which laboriously explains what their powers are, what magical items they have access to, who their comrades are and what they're vulnerable to.
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Oct 28, 2016 20:26
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Jonny_Rocket posted:Doctor Strange is a character that only comic book fans know well. He's not really a well known character in the general public, much like Iron Man or Ant-Man. So it's impossible to show character development over a montage, and introducing a concept as such as "magic" into a fantastical world of superheroes and aliens is somehow a difficult task. You make it seem like the MCU is regressing storytelling. Obviously it's not, it's just running in place. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 20:31
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Jonny_Rocket posted:What's wrong with Doctor Strange being an origin movie? I felt like this was the best route to go, since they had to introduce such complex characters and the concept of magic within the MCU. Doctor Strange isn't a bad movie. The characters are all likable, and the mirror universe fight scenes are excellent. I love the idea that sorcerers can twist the battlefield itself to their advantage, whereas regular heroes like the Avengers are bound by it.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So it's impossible to show character development over a montage, and introducing a concept as such as "magic" into a fantastical world of superheroes and aliens is somehow a difficult task. You make it seem like the MCU is regressing storytelling. Obviously it's not, it's just running in place. "Magic" is a wayyyyyy too vague and ambiguous super power for a protagonist to have without a pretty thorough explanation on the extent and limitations of their abilities and you can't really do that in a montage. You might be able to do it for someone who was a lovely wizard with severe limitations (like Harry Dresden) but you can't do it for someone as powerful as Dr Strange.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:00
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Jonny_Rocket posted:How so? While I understand not every new character introduced to the MCU needs an origin story, I don't really get this reasoning. Every one of the origin stories we've seen thus far have felt pretty different from one another (in my opinion), with the exception of how the story is structured. I'm not saying anything about there being differences in content, I'm commenting on the structure itself. They clearly rely on the structure, or else it wouldn't get pointed out with the frequency it does. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the time tables for getting these movies out, but I think it's fair to point it out. I haven't seen the movie, but maybe something as simple/superficial as telling the movie in a non-linear way would dispel the repetitive structure criticism. It just appears Marvel doesn't seem interested in trying that because the current structure does just fine. I still plan to see this since the visuals keep getting such high praise.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:04
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So it's impossible to show character development over a montage, and introducing a concept as such as "magic" into a fantastical world of superheroes and aliens is somehow a difficult task. You make it seem like the MCU is regressing storytelling. Obviously it's not, it's just running in place. When did I say it was impossible? It's clearly not impossible - The Incredible Hulk did it well - but again, the Hulk is a character that's more well-known to the general public and has an origin that is simple enough to be retold over a montage compared to Doctor Strange. How do you explain how magic works in the Marvel universe over a montage without it feeling like a huge exposition dump? Also, how is the MCU "running in place" when it's just setting up an important character moving forward? If there's one thing the Marvel Cinematic Universe is good at, it's developing and establishing their main characters in their own movies so that when it comes to crossovers (like the Avengers) or sequels (like Civil War), you're more invested in the individual characters. Like, why would we give a poo poo about Bucky and Steve's friendship if that was established in the first Captain America movie? Captain America: Civil War has a greater impact because they properly developed these characters enough for us to care about them. Snowglobe of Doom posted:"Magic" is a wayyyyyy too vague and ambiguous super power for a protagonist to have without a pretty thorough explanation on the extent and limitations of their abilities and you can't really do that in a montage. You might be able to do it for someone who was a lovely wizard with severe limitations (like Harry Dresden) but you can't do it for someone as powerful as Dr Strange. Exactly. Jonny_Rocket fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 21:07
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:"Magic" is a wayyyyyy too vague and ambiguous super power for a protagonist to have without a pretty thorough explanation on the extent and limitations of their abilities and you can't really do that in a montage. You might be able to do it for someone who was a lovely wizard with severe limitations (like Harry Dresden) but you can't do it for someone as powerful as Dr Strange. I think comic book writers should define "magic" as to how the sorcerer produces the effect. For me, magic is using gestures, rituals, and magic words to invoke the intervention of supernatural agencies. The sorcerer doesn't know how the magic works, only how to invoke it. Magic and science are not opposing forces, like comic writers think. Science is a systematic way of studying and explaining the universe that compensates for the logical fallacies that humans are so prone to. A "magical" phenomenon like a magic hammer should not be incomprehensible to scientists, it's just a strange sort of technology that uses unknown engineering principles. If it behaves in "impossible" ways, then the scientist who studies it will rewrite the laws of physics accordingly and collect his Nobel Prize. Also, any technology sufficiently advanced beyond the user's understanding is indistinguishable from magic. loving zoombas might as well be possessed by demons, for all I can tell. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 21:15
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Vision has been in two movies and they haven't to defined his power set/limitations. And people seem fine with that
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Oct 28, 2016 21:22
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^^^ but Vision's SCIENCE!! Duh, can't you see. Not Magic. Totally different. Can't you tell? Does the movie create defined limits and rules for Strange's magic? Also, I thought Deadpool did a decent origin story.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:24
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Jonny_Rocket posted:What's wrong with Doctor Strange being an origin movie? I felt like this was the best route to go, since they had to introduce such complex characters and the concept of magic within the MCU. You didn't need an origin story for the Raccoon man to get the idea of Raccoon hybrids across.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:37
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Doctor Strange usually doesn't have clear limits on his powers beyond not doing anything that would break the story in half. Casting a spell to kill all vampires on Earth because Dracula is being annoying again is well within his usual abilities.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:48
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computer parts posted:You didn't need an origin story for the Raccoon man to get the idea of Raccoon hybrids across. That's comparing apples to oranges - you can't compare the origin of Rocket Raccoon, a racoon hybrid with genius level intellect, to Doctor Strange, one of the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel universe.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:51
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On the other hand, it would be possible to make a compelling movie about raccoon's youth leading to his association with the tree guy leading up to GotG. I think it's reasonable to observe/be disappointed that Strange is apparently very similar to Iron Man, but I don't really think "ANY origin story = bad" is quite the same thing. In some ways everything from Rocky to Alien to Paranormal Activity is an origin story, but this particular proud man -> broken man -> better man -> superhero arc has been done in this franchise once or twice already.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:53
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Jonny_Rocket posted:That's comparing apples to oranges - you can't compare the origin of Rocket Raccoon, a racoon hybrid with genius level intellect, to Doctor Strange, one of the most powerful sorcerers in the Marvel universe. Yeah, Rocket Raccoon has a far more complicated origin, background, and motivations.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:57
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Kurzon posted:This movie, while good overall, kept the very tired irritating tropes I hoped they would not use, namely that magic can do anything except fix a Harsh Reality of Life That We're Taught To Accept. Magic can teleport you vast distances, stop bullets, reverse time, conjure beer, and blow poo poo up, but it can't fix crippling injuries because that's a Harsh Reality of Life That We're Taught To Accept. Ancient One, you stupid bitch, the reason Strange can't draw his sparky circle is that he has crippled hands, not lack of motivation! Just heal his loving hands! What do you think stranding him on Mt Everest is going to do? This is this definitely going to show up in a How It Should Have Ended vid on YouTube. Above several hundred quotes saying "Did you even watch the loving movie?" It's made explicit that Strange being unable to form a portal is nothing to do with his hands. And by "explicit" I mean there's a scene where Strange literally says "I can't do magic because my hands are hosed up" and then Master Hamir reveals he can perform the spells despite not having a left hand.
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Oct 28, 2016 22:21
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Electromax posted:On the other hand, it would be possible to make a compelling movie about raccoon's youth leading to his association with the tree guy leading up to GotG. I am completely down for a Rocket & Groot two-hander
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