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Nathilus posted:Are there any more coming up? I'm finally coming out of shock and would be willing to join in now that the sa protesters have proven themselves to be peaceful and socially responsible. But I dont put my face in books or anything like that so I don't know whats up. The organizers mentioned that there would be some during the week (I can't make those due to work) and encouraged people to go to the protests in Austin as well. I'm not sure of any specifics at the moment but I'll post links to any that I come across in this thread and Texas Politics.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:32
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These protests will fizzle out. The same millennials who refused to vote because they feed on righteous indignation will get tired of this after a week.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:44
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Protesting is one thing, even if I'm skeptical of its effectiveness. But please, please don't engage in "direct action." You're just going to make life harder for small business owners and their employees who are trying to get by, possibly discredit yourselves (including the protestors who didn't burn anything down) in observers' eyes, and stand a somewhat elevated chance of gobbling lead from someone defending their livelihood. Don't do it.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:49
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:Protesting is one thing, even if I'm skeptical of its effectiveness. But please, please don't engage in "direct action." You're just going to make life harder for small business owners and their employees who are trying to get by, possibly discredit yourselves (including the protestors who didn't burn anything down) in observers' eyes, and stand a somewhat elevated chance of gobbling lead from someone defending their livelihood. Don't do it. Those poor poor Trump voting small-business owners whose life became so much harder because their workforce is on strike to oppose Trump. Won't anyone think of the small business owners?  (Direct action includes non-violent means, and non-violent direct action for just and good causes is just and good.)
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Nov 13, 2016 20:18
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Asking for a friend: is a Molotov cocktail through the window of an unoccupied building violent or non violent?
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Nov 13, 2016 20:30
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blue squares posted:Asking for a friend: is a Molotov cocktail through the window of an unoccupied building violent or non violent? Unfortunately fire is always bad
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Nov 13, 2016 20:31
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Those poor poor Trump voting small-business owners whose life became so much harder because their workforce is on strike to oppose Trump. Won't anyone think of the small business owners? I wasn't aware that businesses whose owners and every employee voted for Trump advertised that fact on the storefront. Almost as relieved as I am to know that fire can never spread. Don't do it. Tossing a molly into a possibly occupied building can get you gunned down and the shooter will walk in the unlikely case charges are even brought.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:43
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blue squares posted:Asking for a friend: is a Molotov cocktail through the window of an unoccupied building violent or non violent? Can also get the person that started it charged with some degree of murder if a firefighter or anyone else dies due to the blaze. A firefighter shows up, has a heart attack even, the pyro gets charged. Assuming they find out who started it.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:47
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Escalade things slowly until you get the federal government involved or police starts asking for OT they'll never get. The end-game is when Trump voters turn on him because he's incapable of restoring order. But in the meantime they will hate you oh so very much. Seriously folks this is like protesting 101. Some of you sound like you've never ever been teargassed once before!
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Nov 13, 2016 20:57
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Ogmius815 posted:These protests will fizzle out. The same millennials who refused to vote because they feed on righteous indignation will get tired of this after a week. Everyone I talked to at both protests voted and people of all ages were in attendance. This isn't just a millenial thing. Try harder next time.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:58
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Hey, completely random question: What's the process in the US government for officially declaring a group a terrorist organization? There's a protest planned in Toronto on November 19.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:02
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Ego-bot posted:Hey, completely random question: What's the process in the US government for officially declaring a group a terrorist organization? There's no official designation AFAIK, and even if there were it doesn't matter much because the KKK gets to have all the marches they want. 1st amendment.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:04
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Ego-bot posted:Hey, completely random question: What's the process in the US government for officially declaring a group a terrorist organization? There isn't one beyond "we decided these people are terrorists" far as I know.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:25
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I've been cataloging my thoughts about the recent protest events: http://www.ajrosales.com/LA-Trump-protests-2016.htm I'm entirely against the notion that many conservatives want to categorize them as "tantrums". They are unifying efforts of opposition.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:34
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I guess the Tea Party protests were just tantrums, too, huh
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Nov 13, 2016 21:45
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So why are these protests so much worse in Portland than elsewhere apparently? I heard it's due to "anarchists"?
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Nov 13, 2016 21:52
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Is that not just how Portland rolls?
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Nov 13, 2016 21:59
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Marcus Peters way to make your Field Goal harder lol edit: oops this post was supposed to go into the NFL game day thread
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Nov 13, 2016 22:03
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On Twitter last night, some self-promoting singer posted a video of Venezuelan protests tagged as if they took place in Los Angeles. Of course it went viral. Thousands of Venezuelans in Venezuela, holding Venezuelan colors and Venezuelan flags looks just like LA I guess.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:04
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DeusExMachinima posted:Protesting is one thing, even if I'm skeptical of its effectiveness. But please, please don't engage in "direct action." You're just going to make life harder for small business owners and their employees who are trying to get by, possibly discredit yourselves (including the protestors who didn't burn anything down) in observers' eyes, and stand a somewhat elevated chance of gobbling lead from someone defending their livelihood. Don't do it. Small business owners are only very rarely better employers and generaly tend to act like petty tyrants because their employees have less recourse, they're not, on the whole, that much more deserving of respect than major CEOs. Also I would surmise that a lot of the angriest are people who work for small businesses.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:09
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Escalade things slowly until you get the federal government involved or police starts asking for OT they'll never get. Also, the main worry with that is that it could lead to what happened in the 30s with the first serious electoral of the nazis came from the fact that germany looked like it was on the verge of civil war (admittedly the nazis had a lot to do with that but yeah). I do sincerely worry more about people getting shot by both cops and fascist vigilantes than about loving tear gas (but then again my city is getting used to getting blanketed in Tear gas every may 1st)
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Nov 13, 2016 22:14
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Agnosticnixie posted:Small business owners are only very rarely better employers and generaly tend to act like petty tyrants because their employees have less recourse, they're not, on the whole, that much more deserving of respect than major CEOs. Finally, an edge sharp enough to end capitalism. Destroying someone's livelihood isn't justified just because you made a sweeping judgment based on someone else's wrongdoings. And if you think it does, understand that winding up to throw a molly into a building that someone's inside constitutes a grievous threat to life and limb and makes you a valid target. They're 100% justified in firing every bullet they have if that's what it takes to kill you and anyone participating in what you're doing. Hanging around after you threw it and/or generally doing anything besides immediately running the gently caress away will continue to make you a valid target because you've already demonstrated a willingness to try to kill them with a thrown incendiary device once, you may do it again.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:37
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DeusExMachinima posted:Finally, an edge sharp enough to end capitalism. Destroying someone's livelihood isn't justified just because you made a sweeping judgment based on someone else's wrongdoings. And if you think it does, understand that winding up to throw a molly into a building that someone's inside constitutes a grievous threat to life and limb and makes you a valid target. They're 100% justified in firing every bullet they have if that's what it takes to kill you and anyone participating in what you're doing. Hanging around after you threw it and/or generally doing anything besides immediately running the gently caress away will continue to make you a valid target because you've already demonstrated a willingness to try to kill them with a thrown incendiary device once, you may do it again. You call that edge, I call that a position that's been the standard line about the petty bourgeoisie in communism since the 1850s and that small businesses have rarely given any reason to change. Small business owners, on the whole, are probably more likely to have voted Trump.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:48
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Agnosticnixie posted:Small business owners are only very rarely better employers and generaly tend to act like petty tyrants because their employees have less recourse, they're not, on the whole, that much more deserving of respect than major CEOs. My dad owns two small businesses and is not only the most leftist guy I know, but also treats his employees amazingly. How about you knock the ridiculous generalities and attempts to rationalize violence off for a little bit.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:51
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Save the molitovs for the National Guard, jeeze.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:52
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Agnosticnixie posted:You call that edge, I call that a position that's been the standard line about the petty bourgeoisie in communism since the 1850s and that small businesses have rarely given any reason to change. Small business owners, on the whole, are probably more likely to have voted Trump. Congrats on your deader-than-dead ideology. If you throw flammable poo poo into an occupied building, you're the threat and they're in the right to kill you. And even if you don't care about my bougie conceptions of property, you should care about people's lives, so be aware that you can never be sure in many cases whether or not a building is empty.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:53
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Nov 13, 2016 23:03
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DeusExMachinima posted:Congrats on your deader-than-dead ideology. If you throw flammable poo poo into an occupied building, you're the threat and they're in the right to kill you. And even if you don't care about my bougie conceptions of property, you should care about people's lives, so be aware that you can never be sure in many cases whether or not a building is empty. "My" deader than dead ideology (I'm not a marxist) didn't just get owned as it proclaimed eternal victory forever and the end of history just at the beginning of a new fascist wave. You're not going to convince the angry to not be angry just because it's a small business in the way rather than a big one. Riots are what happens when popular anger needs an outlet and doesn't have one. And purely putting the blame on outside anarchists isn't going to make the people who are rioting give a gently caress. Media will always find people to scapegoat, will always find reasons to claim a protest is violent, the moment it goes against what they want which is stability more than social progress. I've been in protests with 0 arrests and maybe one window broken that were either minimized or turned into ultra-violent shitshows in the media's descriptions of it.
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Nov 13, 2016 23:06
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 at people who think you can protest, or have any civil disobedience and have no one get hurt, no property get destroyed, no one's day get poo poo on. Non-violence is *not* about making sure no one gets hurt, Non-violence is about making sure that the ones doing the hurting are the oppressors.Everytime I hear something so profoundly naive like "Oh wow, the protestors blocked the freeway, they must hate good press!", I die a little inside.
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Nov 13, 2016 23:17
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Agnosticnixie posted:"My" deader than dead ideology (I'm not a marxist) didn't just get owned as it proclaimed eternal victory forever and the end of history just at the beginning of a new fascist wave. You're not going to convince the angry to not be angry just because it's a small business in the way rather than a big one. Riots are what happens when popular anger needs an outlet and doesn't have one. And purely putting the blame on outside anarchists isn't going to make the people who are rioting give a gently caress. Your original argument was that it's ok if small business locations get torched because their owners are probably Trump supporters, not whatever "incidental things happen" watered down bullshit you're trying to push now. Pick a loving stance and stick with it
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Nov 13, 2016 23:19
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Agnosticnixie posted:You're not going to convince the angry to not be angry just because it's a small business in the way rather than a big one. I imagine someone(s) inside picking off anyone lighting a molotov will do some convincing. There's a huge difference between lying down on the freeway and what we're talking about. Also: Aesop Poprock posted:Your original argument was that it's ok if small business locations get torched because their owners are probably Trump supporters, not whatever "incidental things happen" watered down bullshit you're trying to push now. Pick a loving stance and stick with it
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Nov 13, 2016 23:49
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DeusExMachinima posted:Finally, an edge sharp enough to end capitalism. Destroying someone's livelihood isn't justified just because you made a sweeping judgment based on someone else's wrongdoings. And if you think it does, understand that winding up to throw a molly into a building that someone's inside constitutes a grievous threat to life and limb and makes you a valid target. They're 100% justified in firing every bullet they have if that's what it takes to kill you and anyone participating in what you're doing. Hanging around after you threw it and/or generally doing anything besides immediately running the gently caress away will continue to make you a valid target because you've already demonstrated a willingness to try to kill them with a thrown incendiary device once, you may do it again. Until you came in the thread I didnt see anyone posting about burning down buildings, so I'm pretty sure you're just another gun nut who is obsessed with the idea of shooting someone and you're projecting your murderous fantasies onto this thread.
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Nov 14, 2016 00:05
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DeusExMachinima posted:Protesting is one thing, even if I'm skeptical of its effectiveness. But please, please don't engage in "direct action." You're just going to make life harder for small business owners and their employees who are trying to get by, possibly discredit yourselves (including the protestors who didn't burn anything down) in observers' eyes, and stand a somewhat elevated chance of gobbling lead from someone defending their livelihood. Don't do it. This in response to someone suggesting that workers could go on strike
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Nov 14, 2016 00:32
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Aesop Poprock posted:My dad owns two small businesses and is not only the most leftist guy I know, but also treats his employees amazingly. How about you knock the ridiculous generalities and attempts to rationalize violence off for a little bit. Stop everything, this guy has a dad!
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Nov 14, 2016 00:43
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Pinch Me Im Meming posted:Stop everything, this guy has a dad! Claiming you can do whatever you want because you assume the person whose livelihood you're harming voted for Trump is the dumbest thing imaginable and you're a terrible loving idiot if you think you can justify it
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Nov 14, 2016 00:57
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Just finished meeting with some of the local iww branch. We shared our experiences and talked about leveraging anger to push workers' issues without throwing minorities under the bus, which has been a refreshing change of pace. I think there might be a protest going on a bit later, I'm not sure yet. I have burned down no buildings, for those counting.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:00
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Aesop Poprock posted:Claiming you can do whatever you want because you assume the person whose livelihood you're harming voted for Trump is the dumbest thing imaginable and you're a terrible loving idiot if you think you can justify it Look, I'm glad your dad is "a good one" but on the whole as a broad cultural thing we put small business owners on a loving pedestal that most of them do not deserve anymore than any wall-street CEOs. My personal opinion on that doesn't even matter though because ultimately you're not going to be doing anything but ride on a high horse once the MSM falls in line and starts making sure not a single drat protest gets described as anything but an angry anarchistic bloodbath. Anarchists agitators are the liberal version of crisis actors.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:00
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Agnosticnixie posted:Look, I'm glad your dad is "a good one" but on the whole as a broad cultural thing we put small business owners on a loving pedestal that most of them do not deserve anymore than any wall-street CEOs. My personal opinion on that doesn't even matter though because ultimately you're not going to be doing anything but ride on a high horse once the MSM falls in line and starts making sure not a single drat protest gets described as anything but an angry anarchistic bloodbath. Anarchists agitators are the liberal version of crisis actors. "Small business owners" as a talking point is a right wing media thing and you're beyond guilable if you bought their bullshit about them being majority conservative. Do you have any idea how many are immigrants, lgbtq, anti-corporate leftists? Yeah there's terrible mom and pop style stores out there but you're literally advocating that it's ok to destroy any property out of anger cause you're pissed off about politics. You're not even attempting to disguise it
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Nov 14, 2016 01:09
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blue squares posted:Until you came in the thread I didnt see anyone posting about burning down buildings, so I'm pretty sure you're just another gun nut who is obsessed with the idea of shooting someone and you're projecting your murderous fantasies onto this thread. It's true, it's true. As someone who thinks Trump will be terrible, it's not at all in my interest to encourage anti-Trump protesters to retain their credibility. I really just want to see DND posters gunned the gently caress down by a patriot equipped with a Daniel Defense Mk18 with a Surefire RC556 suppressor and Trijicon MRO electro-optical sight and and sweet Jesus HHHNNNNNGGGGG  Agnosticnixie posted:Look, I'm glad your dad is "a good one" but on the whole as a broad cultural thing we put small business owners on a loving pedestal that most of them do not deserve anymore than any wall-street CEOs. My personal opinion on that doesn't even matter though because ultimately you're not going to be doing anything but ride on a high horse once the MSM falls in line and starts making sure not a single drat protest gets described as anything but an angry anarchistic bloodbath. Anarchists agitators are the liberal version of crisis actors. You don't seem to get it. "They're jerks!" or "They fired someone I know!" isn't a valid excuse for violence.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:54
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DeusExMachinima posted:You don't seem to get it. "They're jerks!" or "They fired someone I know!" isn't a valid excuse for violence. Nobody is saying anything like that except for you, psychopath
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Nov 14, 2016 02:02
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