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John C. Frémont Brannan, my friend, I do appreciate your input even though I have many disagreements with it. That said, I do not think now is the time or place to have a negotiation of this kind of nuance. In my opinion, amendments work best as simple things with strong guarantees, and I think if we're going to work out a comprehensive homesteading act like it seems we may need it would be better to do so as a piece of legislation in congress than do it now. Since you've so publicly pledged that you will make such a thing part of your agenda, I will propose that we put this matter aside for now and deal with it later. I withdraw my support for my own Right To Settlement amendment proposal, and encourage others to do so. This is by no means a suggestion that I don't believe we should have such a thing, just that we should achieve that goal in another way. That aside, I wish you the best of luck in your upcoming election, Mr. Bannan. I would not dislike having you as my peer in representing our State.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 21:49 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 06:02 |
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Takanago posted:
Likewise - while we may not see eye to eye on all political matters, I have no doubt you want what's best for California and it's people, as we all should.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 21:53 |
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Commodore Stockton As I know some of the Californios here are concerned about the land they own, let us reassure them by adding the following right to our Constitution Right to Property Except as a statutory punishment for a crime for which that person has been convicted, California shall not dispossess a person of his property without just compensation.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:00 |
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John C. Frémont Well... Commodore Stockton, I have one simple question for you. Is your proposal intended to protect the institution of slavery?
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:05 |
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Elliot Harding I support that, assumin' you mean property an' not people. God willin', this gathering will vote to end the peculiar institution. I've seen good workers waste gold nuggets purchasing freedom from their masters instead of usin' those profits to enrich their own lives. They shouldn't have to any longer.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:08 |
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Takanago posted:
My proposal is intended to protect the people of California from having their land and property seized from them by government fiat. Right now the current landholders of California are concerned that we will not respect their rights. This proposal will reassure them we have no intention of seizing their land and giving it to new settlers.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:11 |
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I would wholeheartedly support a right to property, with the clarification that people are not property.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:12 |
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John C. Frémont Fine, then. I am in complete agreement with the need to protect land. I vote Yes on Stockton's Right to Property.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:14 |
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Wang Long As this convention is winding down and it'll end up going to the legislative floor, I am planning on setting in Nueva Helvetia. I am throwing my hat in as a governor as both seats of the senate has been claimed so far. I do suggest a simple amendment to set the age of voting to the age of being able to join the military, which is the age of 16. If one old enough to fight and serve for California, then he should have the right to vote. I only propose this as we have removed the age requirement of voting. It gives the person enough time to be educated enough to become good Republican citizens and contribute to the nation itself in their due democratic process. I approve Stockton's property rights amendment.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:29 |
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John Sutter Given the rise of a certain candidate for Senate from our great state, I would like to announce my candidacy to run for Senate from the northeast state. That makes three of us now.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 22:48 |
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John Sutter Additionally, I must agree with the fellow representative from our new state about right to work but I want to take it a step further. The Constitution should enshrine basic political rights that allow us to participate equally in politics. Delving into questions of economic rights starts a slippery slope where malcontents can use the constitution to guarantee all sorts of horse dung. We need to be vigilante in what we guarantee and not stray too far from basic political rights.
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# ? Dec 3, 2016 23:41 |
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Elliot Harding Another man who can't resist the allure of gold! We ain't as different as you might expect, Mister Sutter. Best man wins and all that. Erwin the German fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 3, 2016 23:41 |
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uUfMbtIgPOuz16AM0tICGZzUlGew00WlQP_NduTn-ZA/edit?usp=sharing OOC:Anyone who has not done so already, please fill in your votes on this spreadsheet Epicurius so kindly created for us. This is what I will use to tabulate the votes, please don't be dumb and change someone else's votes, it's clear from the google docs who edits what.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 04:35 |
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Commodore Stockton As an announcement, while I no doubt will often be in the capital, I intend to make my home in Sonoma State. Also, much as I like taking credit for things I didn't do, actually, Enjoy is responsible for the spreadsheet
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 04:42 |
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José Castro For the record, let it be shown that I support these listed rights Right to Freedom of Speech, Press and Assembly Right to Freedom of Religion Right To Bear Arms Right to Emancipation Right to a Fair Trial & Due Process Right to Freedom From Unjust Searches and Seizures Right to maintain local and state militias Right to Property And this latter list I do not Right to Freedom From Monopolies Right to Freedom From Dynasties Right to maintain a militia Right to Work Right to Settlement Right to Settlement I find the Settlement a good idea, but as it will likely need curtailing at some point in the future, should be in legislation as mentioned before, rather than enshrined in our bill of rights. I would support the national-only militia in the case Mr. Young's version does not pass. I believe the Right to Work is a good idea, but also best served by legislation and programs by individual states. HarmB fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 04:51 |
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John Sutter Likewise, for the record, let me note my votes as well. I did vote for:
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 04:54 |
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General Stephen W. Kearny, President pro tempore Let it be known for ease of debate, and reference, that I support the following measures without question. (Yes.) Right to Freedom of Speech, Press and Assembly (Frémont) Right to Freedom of Religion (Frémont) Right To Bear Arms (Frémont) Right to Emancipation (Frémont) Right to a Fair Trial & Due Process (Frémont) Right to Freedom From Unjust Searches and Seizures (Frémont) Right to Property (Stockton) The following measures I offer my halfhearted support onto, in lieu of better options, or pragmatism to ensure only the best for our budding nation. (Reluctant YES) Right to maintain a militia (Stockton) Right to Freedom From Monopolies (Frémont) As for these measures, the only vote I may pass in good conscious, is a Nay. (No.) Right to Freedom From Dynasties (Frémont) Right to Settlement (Frémont)
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 05:13 |
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Samuel Brannan To the Prophet Young Sir, it is my privilege to present you with the flag our Mormon Batallion has carried proudly these last two years. May it fly proudly in a place of honor in Moroni.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:01 |
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John C. Frémont Ladies and gentlemen, as we speak among ourselves today it is obvious that we are in the newborn stage of a new political order. As we ask ourselves what our nation should be, we often find ourselves agreeing with the same people, and disagreeing with others. This is the start of a healthy and continuing discussion, and with time shall bear the fruit of a lovely civil society. As of now, the lines that group us together are blurry and unclear. We can all tell that there are certain issues that divide us, and on a person-to-person basis we know who disagrees with who. But for a nation of tens of thousands, as we step into our first election season we will need something more organized: Political Parties. And so, as a person who has been participating in our national conversation quite centrally, I would like to formalize my own views and form my own party. It shall be called the Republican Party! My party shall be a party with strong, liberty-loving values. We shall establish and protect the freedoms which will vitalize the nation and its people. We shall act without undue bias, and rule with a level head. Here are some issues which make what I believe to be the core platform of the party:
Takanago fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:04 |
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Jack Hays I enthusiastically support the Right to Property, the government has no right seizing any free individuals property, in whatever form it takes.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:11 |
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Samuel Brannan Come on, come all, come and join the Golden Eagle Party! What do we believe?
sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:21 |
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Charles Lucien Bonaparte Ornithologist It is an honour to have helped name at least one party in our fair Republic, even if it wasn't the one I wanted to join.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:26 |
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John Sutter I would like to announce my joining of the Republican Party and I would encourage all of my fellow patriots living in the NE State to join.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:36 |
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Elliot Harding I'm right proud to call myself a Republican.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:46 |
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Wang Long Once again, I am planning on settling in Nueva Helvetia. To reiterate, I am throwing my hat in as a governor for that state too as part of the Republican Party I suggest we name the state Sierra.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:53 |
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Jack Hays It seems that this convention has fallen into the hands of dangerous radicals intent on upending the basic social order of this continent. Before moving to California I was a lawman, but now I have no choice but to organize a political party to protect the fundamental values of our people. I invite all to join the Democratic Party. The proud Jackass, symbol of the Democratic Party of California Our initial platform is as follows:
Let us build a great and glorious Republic on these principles. Sheng-Ji Yang fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 5, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 06:56 |
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General Stephen W. Kearny, President pro tempore The rights of men, and the pursuit of property is all well and good, but who shall defend them? Are we not to learn from the history of the American nation that a strong federal government is the only way to ensure liberty? I hereby announce the creation of the Federalist Party, and invite all those who wish to do their utmost to ensure that we are strong and solvent nation to join with me. In brief, what we stand for:
United we stand, divided we fall. cxcxxxxx fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:33 |
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JtQf50h9Bi8gkHE5lxgfX4E5Rgkn4lGT4TLq36xDBiA/edit?usp=sharing This link represents the personal information for each player. I will put it into the first post, but if you change your party or something in the game, please make a note of it, and don't do anything silly like try to edit someone else's stuff or I will have to lock this and do it myself. If you haven't voted for the constitutional bill of rights, please do so here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uUfMbtIgPOuz16AM0tICGZzUlGew00WlQP_NduTn-ZA/edit?usp=sharing If you haven't chosen a state to live in, or haven't put yourself in to the running for a job, please do so if you want one! If you and several other people live in a state with no name at the moment (New Helvetia, San Francisco, the southern one with no people yet) then please think up an official name! Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:37 |
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cxcxxxxx posted:General Stephen W. Kearny, President pro tempore Samuel Brannan I hope that the Federalist Party and the Golden Party may cooperate on Matters of Import going forward. With the possible exception of your infrastructure plank (for I believe the private market should be able to construct infrastructure, especially as we have a relatively small income now,) what you stand for is rational and reasonable. Furthermore, I propose that the city we are now in be officially renamed San Francisco, in the state of Golden Bay Mr. Fremont, I remain open to suggestions. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:43 |
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John C. Frémont Those are fine names, Mr. Brannan.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:51 |
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John Sutter I would agree with the esteemed delegate that Sierra is a fantastic name for our state. I would also suggest Sacramento as the name for our capital, which would be a renaming of Nueva Helvetia.. In any case, I am very proud and supportive of the folks from our new state.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:51 |
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Charles Lucien Bonaparte Ornithologist Every noble avian, no matter how independent it feels, must construct for itself a nest, to endure the elements from season to season. Our Republic must be the eyrie of our entire nation, and must be strong and durable enough for our entire flock to prosper. Therefore I have joined the Federalist Party to help build a strong Republic.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:52 |
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Takanago posted:
Samuel Brannan Then let it be so. May our new State's name reflect the hopes and dreams of all who come to our shores.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 07:52 |
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Dong Reagan (東雷根) Honored delegates of the assembly, We near the 11th hour of this debate. Yet, there are rights that are still yet to have been enumerated. Freedom of Settlement - the Hays proposal is exclusionary, elevating one nationality or another over all peoples of this good earth. Such a plan would not befit the open and welcoming nature of this country's character, decided so far. The Frémont plan also adds specific proviso promising specific parcels of land, which seems excessively detailed for inclusion within a bill of rights. In its stead we seek recognition of freedom of settlement and internal movement, simply as thus: "All citizens and law-abiding visitors possess the liberty to travel, reside in, and work in any part of California as they please, within the limits of respect for the liberty and rights of others, and may leave California and return at any time. The federal government of California, nor the states, nor the localities and municipalities, nor any private organization or entity may infringe upon this freedom, except through the due process of the law." Any future plans for actual settlement can be made as legislation, not as constitutional amendment. We call upon Frémont and his supporters, who so kindly fought for universal suffrage and open citizenship, to continue their march towards maximal inclusion by supporting this guarantee of free settlement! Freedom of Education - as our citizenship is now subject to the Brannan proposal, and thus comes with the added burden of passing English exams, it behooves this state to expedite the process to all immigrants eager to become part of this Californian nation. Human rationality is a gift from the Lord God, and a godly government must cultivate it in all of its people, especially in the youth. Therefore, we must strive to increase citizenship and intelligence through learning institutions gifted to all citizens. Now, this country is a newborn one, and certainly we cannot expect all of these institutions to be government-provided. However, any recognition of this mission, for the good of the nation, is to be esteemed. Therefore, I propose thus- "All citizens have the right to education, directed to the full development of citizens of California (e.g., English) and to the strengthening of respect for virtue and public morality. It shall promote understanding, tolerance, and fraternity among all inhabitants of California, for the maintenance of great peace under heaven. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Parents may choose the kind of education to be provided to their children." Any future plans for educational programs can be passed in various levels of governance of this vaunted federal system. In the meantime, it would be best for the state to work with private organizations to provide the necessary education for future citizens, both immigrant and native-born. We call upon Brannan and his supporters, who so graciously fought for the English test of citizenship, to continue their crusade for an Anglophone California by supporting this initiative for a learned citizenry! Freedom from Depravity - all great moral and cultural traditions upon God's earth believe in the existence of human wickedness, whether powered by demonic forces or mundane. All hold the existence of vice. As this country is newborn, it is not as tainted with the sins of the father republics and empires that its inhabitants have emigrated from. An individual sinner believes in the hope of forgiveness through repentance and obeisance towards a moral authority- as such, it is the moral duty of this state to set itself as a guarantor of virtue. Thus- "All citizens and law-abiding visitors have the right to live under a government dedicated to the promulgation of virtue. The government shall commit itself to regular checks and inspections to maintain an incorruptible nature, punishing evildoers and those who abuse the power of the state. The government shall not infringe upon those who seek to spread wisdom that enhance the moral character of the state." Any future plans for defining what virtue exactly is can be decided at a later date. We call upon Young and his supporters, who have so spread their moral code far and wide, hither and yon, throughout the continent, to uphold the protection of their code as well as the ethical codes of the other great traditions that exist in this country!
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:00 |
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Maximo Roboto posted:
Samuel Brannan Your "Freedom of Settlement" would forbid us from controlling our borders to any degree, your "Freedom of Education" isn't really a Freedom so much as a mandatory requirement (and would be better served through legislation, which I might even support!), and your "Freedom from Depravity" is vague, and seemingly worded to protect a specific class of sage who goes about extolling wisdom. (I wonder who that could be.) I must vote a strong and hearty No, and encourage all freedom loving Californians to do the same. If you wish to lay the foundation to import untold numbers of your brethren from the Orient, be less blatant about it, Emissary! sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Dec 4, 2016 |
# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:07 |
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Maximo Roboto posted:
General Stephen W. Kearny, President pro tempore Utter and total madness. So long as I live I vow none of this ilk shall ever be more than a passing suggestion, from a would be tyrant.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:18 |
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Dong Reagan (東雷根) sniper4625 posted:Your "Freedom of Settlement" would forbid us from controlling our borders to any degree, The amendment amply states that internal movement may be limited in accordance to due process. All rights are by nature limited by good law, on a case-by-case basis. However, it is necessary to state the right in full, so the country may be forthright about the values that it stands for. quote:your "Freedom of Education" isn't really a Freedom so much as a mandatory requirement, That is correct- it is the requirement, and the duty, of a good self-respecting country to teach its citizens! However, the right does not state whether education must be provided by the government, so much as guaranteed by it. The government may guarantee education through private institutions of learning. It is no more or less mandatory than the necessity of using English in matters of governance in this country. quote:and your "Freedom from Depravity" borders on Tyranny. Is freedom from a corrupt government that seeks to enslave and steal from its subjects tyranny? Is freedom from a perverse and deviant order despotism? Mister Brannan, I find it appalling that a follower of the late Joseph Smith (pbuh) would so willingly cast off the ideas of your prophet. Do you not believe in the ultimate rule of the priesthood of your Government of God? Would you shrink away from the moral dictates and standards set by the faith you so cavalierly claim to follow? quote:If you wish to lay the foundation to import untold numbers of your brethren from the Orient, be less blatant about it, Emissary! cxcxxxxx posted:Utter and total madness. So long as I live I vow none of this ilk shall ever be more than a passing suggestion, from a would be tyrant. Such injurious calumny and vile bigotry deigns no response.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:22 |
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José Castro cxcxxxxx posted:General Stephen W. Kearny, President pro tempore General Kearny, I would like to state that I too find your policies to be very agreeable. However... sniper4625 posted:Samuel Brannan Mr Brannan's Golden Eagle Party more closely aligns with my own views. Through great business opportunities we will move on to greatness. Let it be heard, I am joining the Golden Eagles!
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:44 |
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Jack Hays A fair reminder to all that it is only the Democratic Party that will stand against the likes of Dong Reagan and his lust for oriental despotism. All others have happily bowed to the lesser races.
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:44 |
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# ? Mar 29, 2024 06:02 |
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:
Samuel Brannan Sir, not 5 minutes ago I railed against the Taiping's insidious attempts at Opening our Borders to one and all. We bow to no foreigner!
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# ? Dec 4, 2016 08:50 |