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Previous thread - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3796264 After the wasteland that was the UFC in October 2016, November saved us. It was a good month for the sport, with action both in-cage and out. Last month, Fight Night: Lineker vs. Dodson set a high water mark for missing weight, with three fighters missing weight and being fined. This trend would continue through November, with two fighters at Fight Night 98: TUF Latin America 3 Finale: dos Anjos vs. Ferguson missing weight. With another fighter being pulled for a possible USADA violation and being replaced at the last minute, this card saw three catchweight fights. In the maine event, Tony Ferguson got the decision against former lightweight champion Rafael dos Anjos in a good fun fight. dos Anjos' star continues to fall after losing the lightweight title in under a round in July 2016, but Tony Ferguson's is rising, with this win putting him on a 9-fight streak. The next event was the historic first ever UFC show in New York, UFC 205 on the 12th of November. This event was promising to make up for the disappointment that was UFC 200, and it delivered in spades. The action started at the weigh-ins, with Thiago Alves weighing in for his lightweight (155 lbs) fight at 162.6 lbs. According to the New York State Athletic Commission rules, if his opponent was more than 7 pounds lighter than him, the fight would be off. As Jim Miller had not yet weighed in, he was invited to start re-hydrating and miss weight as well to ensure the fight went on, while also picking up 20% of his opponent's purse. Kelvin Gastelum was slated to fight Donald Cerrone at welterweight, with Cerrone flying in around 20 friends and family to see him fight. Cerrone weighed in early, but Gastelum was no where to be seen. He missed the official weigh-in period and annouced via twitter that he would not be able to make weight and that he couldn't fight. In a brief interview, Dana White said that Gastelum had missed weight by up to ten pounds and that "he was never fighting at welterweight in the UFC again". The action inside the octagon did not disappoint. In the FightPass Prelims, Jim Miller got the job done against Alves by decision and Liz Carmouche took a close victory against Katlyn Chookagian. Opening up the Fox Sport card, Vicente Luque, having taken the fight on sixteen days' notice, only needed one minute and nineteen seconds to flatten Belal Muhammad with a blistering left hook. It was a right hook from Tim "Barbarian" Boetsch that sent Rafael Natal crashing down in their middleweight bout next, again in under a round. The third fight featured the heavy-handed Michael Johnson taking on Khabib Nurmagomedov (which I just spelt from memory and I think I got it right) who is a wrestler on another level compared to just about everyone in the world. Johnson was troubling Nurmagomedov on the feet but once the Russian was able to get the fight to the ground it was literally one-way, with Johnson absorbing incredible ground and pound punishment. In the third, Nurmagomedov became frustrated about not being able to put Johnson away with strikes and switched up to a kimura, getting the tap within seconds. In the preliminary main event, Frankie "The Answer" Edgar took a solid decision against Jeremy Stephens in another fun fight from the featherweights. The main card started with Raquel Pennington boxing up former women's bantamweight champion Miesha Tate for three rounds and for Miesha to announce her retirement in the octagon shortly after the fight. Chris Weidman took on Yoel Romero next, in a really solid back and forth fight that was even going in to the third round. Twenty seconds into the third, Weidmen shot low from a long way out and Romero cracked him open with a brutal flying knee, with blood instantly gushing out of the open wound on Wiedman's head. Romero then goose-stepped around the outside of the octagon and called out Micheal Bisping, who was in the stalls on analysis. That fight seems like it will be made soon. The women's strawweight belt was on the line next, with Joanna Jędrzejczyk defending against Karolina Kowalkiewicz. JJ took the decision, dropping only a single round to the challenger, whose fighting style consists of "being JJ only about 90% as good in every way". More then enough to get her a title shot, not enough to get the job done. Tyron Woodley vs. Stephen "Wonderboy" Thompson next in the absolute fight of the night. Back and forward action for five rounds with near-submissions, precision karate strikes and commission confusion saw Woodley retaining on a majority draw. This will be a fight we see again. The main event featured Conor McGregor taking on Eddie Alvarez for the lightweight title, with COnor vying to be the first person in UFC history to hold the gold in two divisions at once, and saw the Irishman pick apart the champion Eddie Alvarez in a little over a round and a half. With all of the talk and hype surrounding this match-up it was almost a letdown in how clinical the disassembly of Alvarez was. McGregor took the first round as an easy 10-8, knocking down Alvarez three times and never looking troubled. In the second round, McGregor took to hiding his hands behind his back in what might have been a taunt or just some sparring habits from an old injury, but it didn't matter. With a beautiful 4-punch combination, he floored the champion, and at 3:00 of the second round Big John McCarthy stepped in to stop the fight. Three more events rounded out a really fun month in UFC. Fight Night: Mousasi vs. Hall 2 from Belfast on the 19th of the month saw Gegard Mousasi control the entire fight against Uriah Hall, stopping his opponent in just under a round. Everyone's favourite horny Japanese man Teruto Ishihara took on Artem Lobov and somehow managed to lose to one of the most hittable men in the UFC. Fight Night: Bader vs. Nogueira 2 took place on the 19th as well on the other side of the planet in São Paulo, with Ryan Bader punching up the increasingly sad looking "Little Nog" in three rounds, getting the TKO stoppage. The final event of the month was again a long way from the UFC's home, with Fight Night: Whittaker vs. Brunson taking place on the 26th from Melbourne, Australia. Between the FightPass and Fox Sports prelims and the first fight of the main card there were eight decisions in a row. The highlight was Cool Judo Dad Dan Kelly grinding out a decision against (and bleeding all over) Chris Camozzi. The main card started with some really lovely officiating, with Danielle Taylor poking Seo Hee Ham in the eye several times in their women's strawweight fight with zero repercussions. Tyson Pedro (Fighting style: Beautiful) made his UFC debut by choking out Khalil Rountree in under a round. The main event saw Australia's own Robert Whittaker knock Derek Brunson out in a fun fight. Whittaker is now the 7th ranked UFC middleweight, which should be concerning to him, because every fighter above him in that division is a loving killing machine also Michael Bisping is there. The month of November was capped off in its final hours by the announcement of the Mixed Martial Artists Athletes Association. This is a Further outside the ring news saw Jon "Boner Pills" Jones found guilty of taking an unidentified dick pill that some guy he had just met gave him from the glovebox of his car that had all sorts of drugs in it that are banned even though they weren't found in his system and it definitely wasn't post-cycle therapy for steroids, no sir. Jones received a suspension of 12 months and will be eligible to fight again in ealy July 2017, by which time he will have almost certainly On to the champions.  Heavyweight Champion Stipe Miocic (16-2). Knocked out Fabricio Verdum in front of 45,000 of Verdum’s fellow Brazilians in May 2016. Defended his title against Alistair Overeem at UFC 203 in September in his home town of Cleveland with another decisive first round KO of the big Dutchman. No further challenger announced, but with a fight between former champions Cain Velasquez and Fabricio Werdum slated for December 30th at UFC 207, it's likely that his next opponent will be one of them, Cain's knees notwithstanding.  Light Heavyweight Champion Daniel “DC” Cormier (18-1). Beat Anthony “Rumble” Johnson in May 2015 via RNC, and ground out a decision against Alexander Gustaffson in October 2015. Was slated to defend against Rumble at UFC 206 in Toronto on the 10th of December, however the American Kickboxing Academy Strength and Conditioning Program put paid to that, with DC announcing he had torn the adductor tendon in his groin.  Middleweight Champion Michael “The Count” Bisping (30-7). Knocked out Luke Rockhold in less than a round at the start of June 2016, on ten days’ notice. Defended his title against Dan Henderson in October, and current talk is a fight against Yoel "Soldier of God" "No For Gay Jesus" Romero.  Welterweight Champion Tyron “The Chosen One” Woodley (16-3-1). Won the title at UFC 201 in July by knocking out Robbie Lawler in under a round. Defended against Stephen "Wonderboy" Thomson at UFC 205, in New York in November in an excellent fight that went to a majority draw. A rematch could definitely be on the cards.  Lightweight Champion Conor McGregor (21-3). Easily beat Eddie Alvarez at UFC 205 in November, becoming the first ever UFC fighter to hold the belts in two divisions at the same time. Several fights are being talked up for Conor at the moment, including Nate Diaz for the LW belt, Khabib Nurmagomedov for the LW belt and even Tyron Woodley for the WW belt. Conor has also talked about taking some time off. The featherweight title was either stripped from Conor, or he relinquished it, following the injury to Daniel Cormier leaving UFC 206 without a title fight for the main event.  Featherweight Champion Jose Aldo (26-2). Took a decision against Frankie Edgar at UFC 200 in early July 2016. With the injury to Daniel Cormier leaving UFC 206 without a title match in the main event, several things happened. First, Conor's featherweight title was vacated - it is currently unknown whether or not he relinquished it or it was stripped from him. Then, Aldo was promoted to champion at featherweight, which in turn allowed for the fight between Max Holloway and Tony Pettis to be for the interim Featherweight title. The winner of this will then assumedly fight Aldo to unify the belts at a later date. Then again this is the UFC so who the gently caress knows what will actually happen.  Bantamweight Champion Dominick "The Dominator" Cruz (22-1). Took a close decision against TJ Dillashaw in January 2016, and defended his title comfortably against Urijah Faber in June 2016. Defending against the undefeated Cody "No Love" Garbrandt at UFC 207.  Flyweight Champion Demetrious "Mighty Mouse" Johnson (24-2-1). Won the title in the final of the Flyweight Tournament in September 2012. Has defended it 8 times in a row and is looking to make his 9th defense against the winner of the current season of TUF this month.  Women's Bantamweight Champion Amanda “Lioness” Nunes (13-4). Punched and choked her way to victory in the main event of UFC 200 against Miesha Tate. Will defend against a returning Ronda Rousey at UFC 207 this month.  Women's Strawweight Champion Joanna Jędrzejczyk (13-0). Beat the hell out of Cláudia Gadelha the night before UFC 200 to a solid decision victory. Defended against her countrywoman Karolina Kowalkiewicz at UFC 205 in New York in November. Upcoming Events The Ultimate Fighter 24 Finale December 3rd UFC Fight Night 102: Lewis vs. Abdurakhimov December 9th UFC 206: Holloway vs. Pettis December 10th UFC on FOX 22: VanZant vs. Waterson December 17th UFC 207: Nunes vs. Rousey December 30th Remember this is a Friday Night, don't miss it Credible news sources: http://www.mmabuzzsaw.com/ http://www.mmajunkie.com http://www.fightopinion.com http://www.mmapayout.com http://www.mixedmartialarts.com http://www.mmaweekly.com http://www.mmamania.com http://www.mmarated.com http://www.cagepotato.com/ http://www.f4wonline.com/ Other news: http://www.sherdog.com http://www.bloodyelbow.com Other: Sherdog Fight Finder Unified rules of MMA http://www.fightmetric.com MMA IRC chat room at #mma on SynIRC.net Welcome to MMA, here's the history of the sport Comparison of MMA betting lines Understanding Sports Betting USADA/UFC Drug Testing statistics Fightpass Threads (with a thank you to Lobster Mobster for putting them together): UFC Fight Pass Playlists and Collections The NEW UFC Fight Pass Collection Thread Memento fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 02:45
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Also if someone makes a separate thread to talk about the MMAAA thing (probably not needed) then they should use this tag: 
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Dec 1, 2016 02:52
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why is Sage Northcutt going apeshit on apples
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Dec 1, 2016 02:52
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I know everyone hates Bjorn but creating an association to advocate for legal rights and the ability to be recognized as employees is better than creating a union that can't strike
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Dec 1, 2016 02:55
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Dana should do the honorable thing and agree to every demand the MMAAA has if GSP can do the flip on or by a specific date Livestream the historic attempt on Fight Pass
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Dec 1, 2016 02:57
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vainman posted:and the ability to be recognized as employees They explicitly stated they are not employees and consider themselves to be independent contractors. (They aren't, but the UFC will let them think they are) An association is arguably worse than nothing because it may give fighters the impression that they have something that can deliver higher wages and benefits and therefore do not need a union. An association makes sense for, say accountants who can come from all over the country to meet once a year to discuss the latest tax laws and financial issues, and come up with new guidelines and best practices to take back to their employers. An association is an idiotic idea if your goal is to force one employer to give you more money. Rigel fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 02:59
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OP has done a NYSAC and got Woodley-Wonderboy down as a majority decision not a majority draw.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:12
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https://twitter.com/arielhelwani/status/804145493861351428
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Dec 1, 2016 03:18
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Conor has his license to box in California so now we get to hear that whole song and dance again for the millionth time
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Dec 1, 2016 03:18
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Julio Cruz posted:OP has done a NYSAC and got Woodley-Wonderboy down as a majority decision not a majority draw. Thanks, there's always one or two mistakes.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:19
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Rigel posted:They explicitly stated they are not employees and consider themselves to be independent contractors. (They aren't, but the UFC will let them think they are) They are independent contractors until the law recognizes them as employees. An association is the first step of changing this, look at what's happening in college basketball
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Dec 1, 2016 03:25
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Tyron Woodley didn't win the title yesterday OP.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:26
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vainman posted:They are independent contractors until the law recognizes them as employees. An association is the first step of changing this, look at what's happening in college basketball They are employees under the law. The law lays out a several-point test to pass before you can be an independent contractor, and they easily fail the test. The burden of proof is on the employer to prove in court that they are not employees, and they won't succeed if it comes to it. An association is definitely not the first step in being recognized as employees, which again they misguidedly think they don't want to be. An association is agnostic on whether their members are employees or IC's. A union's #1 priority is to prove that their members are employees, since they are dead in the water if they are IC's. Also, your note that a fighter's union can't strike is wrong.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:29
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vainman posted:a union that can't strike Why do you think this?
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Dec 1, 2016 03:32
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Why do you think this? I keep seeing people post it and I think it's a part of American law that independent contractors can't strike? Not really sure
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Dec 1, 2016 03:34
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An association like the one they've made cannot strike. A union always has the power to strike unless they're certain federal public sector unions.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:38
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Rigel posted:They are employees under the law. The law lays out a several-point test to pass before you can be an independent contractor, and they easily fail the test. The burden of proof is on the employer to prove in court that they are not employees, and they won't succeed if it comes to it. How do you think they are taxed? quote:An association is definitely not the first step in being recognized as employees, which again they misguidedly think they don't want to be. An association is agnostic on whether their members are employees or IC's. A union's #1 priority is to prove that their members are employees, since they are dead in the water if they are IC's. Also, your note that a fighter's union can't strike is wrong. An association can advocate for members to be recognized as employees and then form a union later
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Dec 1, 2016 03:40
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vainman posted:I keep seeing people post it and I think it's a part of American law that independent contractors can't strike? Not really sure You can, but it's worthless. You have no protections under the National Labor Relations Act and the employer has no requirement to actually listen to you. To accomplish what they want to accomplish, someone needs to challenge the independent contractor status and then once they win, they would need to successfully unionize. They want all the benefits brought by unionizing as employees but want to do so without forming a union while maintaining independent contractor status. In short, they are retarded.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:47
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Mr. Nice! posted:An association like the one they've made cannot strike. A union always has the power to strike unless they're certain federal public sector unions. See, this is the confusing part. This letter says they cannot organize because they are independent contractors and my understanding is this was why Uber drivers in California had to go to court. http://mmajunkie.com/2015/10/in-the-push-for-a-fighter-association-complex-questions-in-search-of-answers/ufc-letter-unionizing ^^^ so they effectively can't strike without being recognized employees. Which brings me back to my first point, forming an association to get that changed is a good first step
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Dec 1, 2016 03:48
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vainman posted:I keep seeing people post it and I think it's a part of American law that independent contractors can't strike? Not really sure All unions can strike. Non-union workers are legally vulnerable if they try to collude to strike.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:49
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Going to court is always a big risk, especially for MMA fighters If it gets to a verdict you're very likely going to win, but the longer it goes, the more it costs. Organizations can always afford that, rarely can the fighters do the same.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:50
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vainman posted:How do you think they are taxed? They are taxed as IC's. That only means the UFC will be in deep poo poo with the IRS if they are later determined to be employees. vainman posted:An association can advocate for members to be recognized as employees "You think you are employees and want more money? Wait a sec, you aren't a union, are you? No? Cool. Go gently caress yourself, if you don't want to fight, then don't fight." *click*
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Dec 1, 2016 03:51
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vainman posted:Which brings me back to my first point, forming an association to get that changed is a good first step This is wrong. Forming an association has nothing to do, NOTHING, with a hypothetical effort to be recognized as employees. This isn't a huge legal mountain to climb if they form a union, the argument in court will be easy. It would only take time, lawyers, and money.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:53
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Chris James 2 posted:Going to court is always a big risk, especially for MMA fighters Then they aren't serious about changing conditions and pay for fighters. There is not a viable alternative, the UFC does not have to collectively bargain in good faith unless there's a union.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:55
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vainman posted:Which brings me back to my first point, forming an association to get that changed is a good first step Even if this were true, it has nothing to do with the actual association under discussion, which explicitly says that it's members are independent contractors.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:56
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vainman posted:See, this is the confusing part. This letter says they cannot organize because they are independent contractors and my understanding is this was why Uber drivers in California had to go to court. No it's really not. Because they're standing up saying they're an association that is going to deliver X, Y and Z to fighters through their association when it is not possible to deliver those things. They are going to get people to buy into this, be unable to deliver on their promises and then effectively sour any legit chance at a union through this stupid dog and pony show. As an example, let's use GSP. GSP claims to really want to take actions that protect fighters. GSP has a huge name and a lot of money. GSP would be best served doing this by challenging his status as an independent contractor. This association is nothing but a bunch of toothless posturing that's going to end up as a demoralizing effort for a bunch of low end fighters who would actually benefit from a non-clownshow attempt at unionizing.
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Dec 1, 2016 03:58
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Rigel posted:This is wrong. Forming an association has nothing to do, NOTHING, with a hypothetical effort to be recognized as employees. Everything is easy if you have time and money. An association can pursue this and still act as an advocate and a lobbyist
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Dec 1, 2016 03:59
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fatherdog posted:Even if this were true, it has nothing to do with the actual association under discussion, which explicitly says that it's members are independent contractors. They are independent contractors until recognized as employees
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Dec 1, 2016 03:59
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vainman posted:Everything is easy if you have time and money. An association can pursue this and still act as an advocate and a lobbyist Did you miss the whole thing were they stood up and pretty much said the opposite of this today? They said and believe that they can effectively deliver the benefits achieved through unionizing by forming a toothless association. This is not hard to understand. If they had a desire to use this association to achieve employee status for fighters, getting on stage together and proudly proclaiming that you are united independent contractors is pretty much the single worst way they could achieve that.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:01
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Memento posted:Thanks, there's always one or two mistakes. Not to be too nitpicky, but it's under his picture too.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:04
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I feel like we are going in circles. UFC fighters are recognized as independent contractors by the national labour board. Creating an advocacy group to share information about that with other fighters, talk to media about the cons and lobby to get that changed or to instead get additional rights for combat athletes is a good move e: it's another sport but look at the fight between the NCPA and Northwestern Football. That's an association, not a union
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Dec 1, 2016 04:05
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vainman posted:I feel like we are going in circles. UFC fighters are recognized as independent contractors by the national labour board. Creating an advocacy group to share information about that with other fighters, talk to media about the cons and lobby to get that changed or to instead get additional rights for combat athletes is a good move We aren't going in circles. You're stuck in reverse. Nobody is contesting that they are independent contractors. We're saying that they meet the guidelines for what constitutes being an employee however that cannot and will not change until someone takes it upon themselves to contest it. They want to act as a union and fight for the benefits of a union while not forming a union. They can spend hundreds of millions lobbying and talking to media and other fighters and it does not mean poo poo because without unionizing - a thing they publicly said they were not going to do or aspire to be today - no employer has any obligation to listen to any of it.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:10
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vainman posted:They are independent contractors until recognized as employees In court, they are assumed employees until the putative employer proves that they are IC's
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Dec 1, 2016 04:14
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vainman posted:I feel like we are going in circles. UFC fighters are recognized as independent contractors by the national labour board. The NLRB doesn't recognize them as anything. If they were asked to look into it, they would likely say that they appear to be employees.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:15
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It won't ever happen for 2 reasons, but if conor retires with a 1-0 boxing record with that scalp being Floyd Mayweather I'd laugh until I poo poo myself.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:46
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Marching Powder posted:It won't ever happen for 2 reasons, but if conor retires with a 1-0 boxing record with that scalp being Floyd Mayweather I'd laugh until I poo poo myself. That would be all sorts of amazing.
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Dec 1, 2016 04:51
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It's an association and they want to be independent contractors b/c they want an end to exclusive contracts in favor of boxing style 1 fight contracts. This is the answer.
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Dec 1, 2016 05:22
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Boxing sucks though.
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Dec 1, 2016 05:24
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I agree & it's generally much worse for the talent if you aren't one of very few people. But I'm pretty sure that's why they went the way they did.
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Dec 1, 2016 05:29
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Work Friend Keven posted:It's an association and they want to be independent contractors b/c they want an end to exclusive contracts in favor of boxing style 1 fight contracts. This is the answer. Its not a good idea for MMA, at all. The IC model works well in boxing only because there are multiple credible, strong promoters. If, say Bellator and Pancrase were strong high-profile promotions with good fighters and large US fanbases then yeah, a union is not the way to go and they should follow boxing. But they don't have that, and there's not really a good reason to believe the UFC won't be the MMA juggernaut for the forseeable future. So, if you do not have a good alternative, then the value of free agency is poo poo, and you need a union to force the UFC to give you a fair deal. Similarly, if the XFL actually worked out and we had two strong viable American Football leagues, then a union doesn't look like a good option, but that wont happen because lol at taking on the NFL. So, you need the NFLPA. Similarly, MMA looks more like a "league" rather than an open labor marketplace. If there's only one top-end employer then there is no market pressure helping the fighters, and you need the labor protections promised by the NLRB. Rigel fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Dec 1, 2016 |
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Dec 1, 2016 05:49
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