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That's how moral panics usually erupt - it's not just evil, it's sensational, extraordinary, even supernatural evil. Check out how it played out in the 80's and how many innocent lives got ruined as a result.
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Dec 7, 2016 00:31
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last I heard, the NSA was keeping a couple agents doped on DMT 24/7 just so they can keep an eye on the Anteroom and keep undesirables out of the Black Lodge. Which is, totally, loving up the vibe for everyone else.
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Dec 7, 2016 02:18
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BarbarianElephant posted:Now you know how Muslims feel. I'm violently liberal. Why my questioning of those headlines leads to people assuming I'm a conservative defending guns or pizzagate or trying to suppress fallout is beyond me. Are you reading into my posting for a slant in the same way people tend to read into media for slant? If so, that's magnificently meta. Addendum: I was seriously musing on how fair or truthful it was at this time to say "Pizzagate directly drove this guy nuts." Me, two days ago: "  Is there editorializing in those headlines or are they actually good?" Yeah, thinking about it more, I can't really think of another way to phrase those headlines in a complete manner, and the guy really was knocked off his rocker by the alt right. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 02:45
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Potato Salad posted:I actually think we're over a tipping point on fascism. We are going to be losing some rights. I'm also violently liberal. Why my questioning of those headlines leads to people assuming I'm a conservative defending guns or pizzagate or trying to suppress fallout is beyond me. Are you reading into my posting for a slant in the same way people tend to read into media for slant? If so, that's magnificently meta. Dunno where you're coming from but I don't see making a the connection between crazy pizzagate conspiracy theorists on the internet and people going crazy IRL as a stretch.
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Dec 7, 2016 02:49
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Bip Roberts posted:Dunno where you're coming from but I don't see making a the connection between crazy pizzagate conspiracy theorists on the internet and people going crazy IRL as a stretch. Yeah I don't see the stretch now either. "X causes violence" perhaps has installed an unnecessary aversion in my brain, I don't know.
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Dec 7, 2016 02:54
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I read up way too much on pizzagate and one real thing I did take away from it is that John Podesta seems to be into really creepy art. I'm not saying that means anything other than Podesta is into really creepy art, though. Who is it? Marina Abramović? Yeah that broad is nuts.
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Dec 7, 2016 03:46
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Mulaney Power Move posted:I read up way too much on pizzagate and one real thing I did take away from it is that John Podesta seems to be into really creepy art. I'm not saying that means anything other than Podesta is into really creepy art, though. Who is it? Marina Abramović? Yeah that broad is nuts. That's not Pizzagate, that's #SpiritCooking. Get it right.  Is Podesta himself even into her art? I thought that was just his brother. His brother is the one who attended her dinner parties, anyway.
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Dec 7, 2016 03:54
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Silver2195 posted:That's not Pizzagate, that's #SpiritCooking. Get it right. That's snopes' take on it, yes. There's no indication John Podesta and the artist have ever met, or even how much he knows of her at all. But his brother likes some weird performance artist so that means Hillary's a satanist. I give up.
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Dec 7, 2016 04:22
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Oh so that's just a whole other conspiracy theory that got lumped into everything. All this poo poo makes your average UFO conspiracies look old fashioned.
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Dec 7, 2016 05:19
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Polygynous posted:That's snopes' take on it, yes. There's no indication John Podesta and the artist have ever met, or even how much he knows of her at all. But his brother likes some weird performance artist so that means Hillary's a satanist. I give up. It's an attitude that disappeared from America for a while (especially in the gloriously weird 60s + 90s) but its making a resurgence with the renewed right-wing
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Dec 7, 2016 05:27
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the black husserl posted:It hasn't come up much but a big part of all this is about demonizing the whole concept of strange art and weirdo ideas. A lot the #pizzagaters sincerely believe that all-ages rock shows, punk rock bands named "Sex Stains", and creating dark/challenging/weird art are all behaviors of a morally degenerate culture that might as well be practicing pedophilia Not only on the right-wing... https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/805090792696123392 Getting a bit far afield from fake news, but I can't help but roll my eyes at the pearl-clutching here. Does Kristof really not have any friends who watch, say, Game of Thrones?
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Dec 7, 2016 05:35
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Silver2195 posted:Getting a bit far afield from fake news, but I can't help but roll my eyes at the pearl-clutching here. Does Kristof really not have any friends who watch, say, Game of Thrones? He's definitely not suggesting that any art that references rape or cannibalism is automatically degenerate, which is how a lot of the PIzzagaters have realized they feel. In another era they'd be burning D&D books, but it's different from the typical puritanism. Think more along the lines of "gently caress HIPPIES" or the virulent hatred that exists for nonconformist dressers. the black husserl fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 05:48
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the black husserl posted:Not that Kristof isn't a dumb guy, but I think you're slightly misreading him here. Titus Andronicus is famously regarded as being poorly written and terribly stupid, the general consensus is that it's on the level of a grindhouse B-movie and not really worthy of being in the Shakespeare canon. Kristof's first sentence isn't his justification for the second, he's just referencing how gory and over-the-top of a play it is to try and score some points by critiquing Bannon's low taste. That tweet is him simultaneously trying to sneer at somebody for liking something he doesn't and sneer at people he feels aren't smart enough to appreciate what he thinks is fine art. Its textbook Liberal Elitist stuff really. Arguing that 'the Shakespeare cannon' is a thing that exists and matters when it was the Game of Thrones of it's time is hilarious. It was well written popular entertainment and has gained a cachet of cultural importance because its old. The companies that produce Shakespeare as a pantomime are probably closer to a actual depiction of how the work was intended to be performed. You haven't seen Macbeth until you get to shout 'its behind you' to Macbeth while he is being haunted.
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Dec 7, 2016 06:41
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rkajdi posted:Isn't that a large part of the issue though? It an entirely different thing when something shows up for crazy tinfoil hat conspiracists who also take pride in being armed. I get the impression you are coming from the UK where this kind of thing isn't constantly threatened by half of the rural people. It's especially damning since it's very obvious what's going on, but the left just seems to mumble something about rights while not even trying to make anyone answer for it. Then strangely they stopped doing it. I think it stopped just after a British man was arrested after trying to steal a cop gun during a Trump thing in Vegas. Fake news is just a new name for Click-bait which is basically just yellow journalism which is standard behavior in mainstream journalism since Hearst vs Pullizer. Both sides are full of clueless (or worse) people ready to use the dumbest most dangerous propaganda point because the end (making money, "helping" your political side) justify the mean(lying to a public that include dumb/emotive armed people, having an inflammatory discourse). The "left" is mumbling because the people mumbling are journalists and know that they can't do anything without killing their profession, just try to blame the crazy on the other side, not the whole industry. I also do not have an optimistic view on what would happen after you censor the info sources of dumb people armed with shotguns. I hate feeling like i will see the death of democracy in my lifetime. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 12:20 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 12:06
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e: jesus double post.
Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 12:09
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The fact you have to use op/eds for your example shows it really isnt a both sides thing.
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Dec 7, 2016 13:21
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Toplowtech posted:Fake news is just a new name for Click-bait which is basically just yellow journalism which is standard behavior in mainstream journalism since Hearst vs Pullizer. Not really. Clickbait is generally news that is true-ish but has a misleading headline. Fake news is outright made up. Hard to believe, but just prior to the election there was a LOT of 100% fake stories circulating right-wing Facebook.
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Dec 7, 2016 14:38
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Polygynous posted:That's snopes' take on it, yes. There's no indication John Podesta and the artist have ever met, or even how much he knows of her at all. But his brother likes some weird performance artist so that means Hillary's a satanist. I give up. By weird performance artist we are talking about weird as compared to mainstream (which performance art itself is not). She is the most famous/celebrated performance artist in the world. It's like if he wore a Led Zeppelin t-shirt and people said it was an underground band with a lot of songs that seemed to reference satan. Mr. Belding fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 15:20
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Bip Roberts posted:Dunno where you're coming from but I don't see making a the connection between crazy pizzagate conspiracy theorists on the internet and people going crazy IRL as a stretch. perhaps, but also nutty people have been lashing out for one crazy idea or another for years. if marc lepine had committed his crimes today he'd be denounced as an MRA with ties to r/redpill. it's not good to automatically assume some causal connection versus just "Crazy people like indulging their crazy ideas with other crazy people" Mulaney Power Move posted:I read up way too much on pizzagate and one real thing I did take away from it is that John Podesta seems to be into really creepy art. I'm not saying that means anything other than Podesta is into really creepy art, though. Who is it? Marina Abramović? Yeah that broad is nuts. she's not, she's extremely talented and well known as good at what she does. 80 years ago you'd be saying salvador dali is a satanist or something. one of her pieces even went viral a few years ago, which is a pretty big coup for artsy fartsy performance pieces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0Tg0IjCp4 check out the extremely good comments on this video from the last couple months boner confessor fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 15:27
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Unbalanced people definitely take their cues from society's ideas. About half the "lone wolf" Islamic terrorists out there are "inspired" by the likes of ISIS rather than being part of an organized terrorist cell, but somehow the Islamist masterminds never get let off for the fact that their orders were not given directly.
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Dec 7, 2016 15:34
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the black husserl posted:It hasn't come up much but a big part of all this is about demonizing the whole concept of strange art and weirdo ideas. A lot the #pizzagaters sincerely believe that all-ages rock shows, punk rock bands named "Sex Stains", and creating dark/challenging/weird art are all behaviors of a morally degenerate culture that might as well be practicing pedophilia I first started to see a lot of this during gamergate, which could be due to it being my first serious exposure to the alt right. It was also a turning point for a lot burgeoning proto-fascists. There was a lot of conflict about whether games could or should be regarded as art, and a lot of resentment over the idea that artistic games don't necessarily have to be fun, but instead they aim engage the player emotionally, philosophically, or intellectually. These sorts of games will always have an "agenda" which may challenge the players pre-existing beliefs. It's not fun being told you may be wrong!
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Dec 7, 2016 15:36
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Mr. Belding posted:By weird performance artist we are talking about weird as compared to mainstream (which performance art itself is not). She is the most famous/celebrated performance in the world. It's like if he wore a Led Zeppelin t-shirt and people said it was an underground band with a lot of songs that seemed to reference satan. boner confessor posted:she's not, she's extremely talented and well known as good at what she does. 80 years ago you'd be saying salvador dali is a satanist or something. one of her pieces even went viral a few years ago, which is a pretty big coup for artsy fartsy performance pieces Neat, I didn't realize she was actually well-known or anything. Makes the whole thing even better / worse. vv I didn't mean "weird" as necessarily "bad", heh. 
Polygynous fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 15:37
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BarbarianElephant posted:Unbalanced people definitely take their cues from society's ideas. About half the "lone wolf" Islamic terrorists out there are "inspired" by the likes of ISIS rather than being part of an organized terrorist cell, but somehow the Islamist masterminds never get let off for the fact that their orders were not given directly. uhh i dont think anyone "lets off" ISIS. like all any news outlet needs to do is publish ISIS' declaration of "recent violence? oh yeah, we inspired that, it's all on us" and hundreds of thousands of people flock on social media to denounce islam Polygynous posted:Neat, I didn't realize she was actually well-known or anything. Makes the whole thing even better / worse. i mean she's not well known to most people who for obvious reasons don't follow or care about the art world but within the art world she's massive and well known "it's weird/creepy/evil" is the kind of stuff people say about performance art when they say "my kid could do that" about abstract art, or "it's just grown men chasing a ball" about pro sports, or any number of other reflex "this is beneath my time" dismissals of things people don't care enough to understand boner confessor fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 15:37
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boner confessor posted:uhh i dont think anyone "lets off" ISIS. like all any news outlet needs to do is publish ISIS' declaration of "recent violence? oh yeah, we inspired that, it's all on us" and hundreds of thousands of people flock on social media to denounce islam That's what he's saying. We don't say "Hey, now. ISIS doesn't really have anything to do with this," when someone treats their rhetoric as factual and uses it as an excuse to commit terror. Why should we do that in the case that people treat pizzagate accusations seriously. Honestly, if someone truly believes that children are being raped in the basement of a pizza shop, they should probably go set those poor kids free! So using flimsy evidence to convince someone that children are being raped in the basement of a pizza shop makes one a least partially responsible when the predictable reaction occurs.
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Dec 7, 2016 15:42
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Toplowtech posted:No it's not just because i am European, Jo Cox was shoot to death, you do not have the monopoly on gun violence USA. No, i think the issue is not limited to really dumb people going to a pizzeria with shotgun because of a crazy joke conspiracy on the Internet. Feed people poo poo, you get more poo poo out of people. First off, you are correct that the US unfortunately does not have a monopoly on political gun violence. It does have the vast amount of it, however. Much larger than its population would suggest. And you don't have a 3%er/Oath Keeper third column movement your government just tolerates, unless I'm misreading the way English politics works. A huge amount of that is we (as in Americans) refuse to do a god damned thing when it happens, and just talk about "are rites" garbage. As if the person being assassinated didn't have any rights worth mentioning as compared to his character assassins and the various libertarian nutjobs who are convinced the only important freedoms are for bad things to happen to you. And the issue is allowing people to feed this kind of poo poo. It's like we're watching people plan this poo poo right out in the open and nobody's willing to do a thing about it because "rights". gently caress that. quote:And i just don't think the fake news problem is limited to the far right. I remember that at the start of the campaign for nearly one week of the Guardian (SERIOUS NEWS) published full of opinion pages on how TRUMP is Hitler TRUMP is Hitler, TRUMP is literally Hitler, literally everyday on their online front page. I remember thinking "some loving idiot will think he doesn't need a time machine to kill Hitler and then Jesus it will be a shitshow". Without any real proof, you're starting to sound like a truther. Bring real proof, not some Glen Beck wall of coincidences. And again sorry, pointing out that a guy stoking white populism and some new dolchstoßlegende while winking at the alt right might be at least edging towards fascism is a pretty standard opinion. If you don't want to be compared with trash tier politicians and people, don't have the same opinions as them. Coming up with a crazytown theory about a pizza place with exactly zero evidence is not even in the same ball park. One thing is an opinion based on very public positions. The other is a whole cloth fabrication in an attempt to get a decent person murdered by crazy gun trash. We've already seen it happen in slow motion with George Tiller, and I don't really think we should sit by with our hands in our pockets this time. quote:I also do not have an optimistic view on what would happen after you censor the info sources of dumb people armed with shotguns. I hate feeling like i will see the death of democracy in my lifetime. Obviously, the right solution is doing nothing about slander against a private citizen like pizzagate. If upholding lies is what it takes to have free expression, we don't need it. For reference, I think we can actually protect free expression while not allowing factual lies, but it will require actual work and a government that isn't siding with the tinfoil hat nuts. If making sure that lies don't get spread is the line the armed nuts refuse to cross, so be it. The point of the state is to protect decent people against violence both internal and external. If we're at the point where you can't count of that if don't look, gently caress, or pray like a loser from the Midwest, then things need to be fixed until that's no longer true. But you can't let the armed nuts veto society with bullets, that's just anarchy.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:02
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boner confessor posted:
boner confessor posted:i mean she's not well known to most people who for obvious reasons don't follow or care about the art world but within the art world she's massive and well known I don't think her art is good, I think it's creepy, and Dali was a weird guy too except I actually like some of his paintings. Just because I don't share your tastes in weird performance art doesn't mean I'm ignorant or "don't get it," unless you simply want to be pretentious.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:32
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Byolante posted:That tweet is him simultaneously trying to sneer at somebody for liking something he doesn't and sneer at people he feels aren't smart enough to appreciate what he thinks is fine art. Its textbook Liberal Elitist stuff really. Arguing that 'the Shakespeare cannon' is a thing that exists and matters when it was the Game of Thrones of it's time is hilarious. It was well written popular entertainment and has gained a cachet of cultural importance because its old. The companies that produce Shakespeare as a pantomime are probably closer to a actual depiction of how the work was intended to be performed. You haven't seen Macbeth until you get to shout 'its behind you' to Macbeth while he is being haunted. This is the kind of idea that needs to die. Being ignorant is a shame, not a virtue. Complaining that people are "Liberal Elitists" for having a fairly uncontroversial opinion about a fairly bad Shakespeare play (Titus Andronicus). This anti-intellectual stupidity is why we are stick in this post-fact era. You defer to people who are more educated and well-read on topics, instead of pulling a Trumpite and saying "Book learning is for urban queers. Just trust Jesus and common sense." The uneducated have less valuable opinions on subjects because they are literally ignorant on them. The solution is easy, but for all the hard work these types seem to want to put forward, reading an actual book is motherfucking kryptonite.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:42
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quote:Without any real proof, you're starting to sound like a truther. Bring real proof, not some Glen Beck wall of coincidences. quote:Obviously, the right solution is doing nothing about slander against a private citizen like pizzagate. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 16:42
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Mulaney Power Move posted:I don't think her art is good, I think it's creepy, and Dali was a weird guy too except I actually like some of his paintings. Just because I don't share your tastes in weird performance art doesn't mean I'm ignorant or "don't get it," unless you simply want to be pretentious. I think the issue is that it's more middle American ignorati claiming stuff they don't like is Satanist or worthy of a whispers campaign about. These people are walking into a conversation they know nothing about and getting mad that they don't like what is being discussed. Again, ignorance is something to be ashamed of, not a virtue.
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Dec 7, 2016 16:53
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Toplowtech posted:Lol i am french, do you want me to tell you how the so called "leftwing" media covered the opposition of my country against the US invasion of iraq in the UN in 2002? Pretty pretty weakly when they weren't straight up for the Bush&Blair propaganda machine. And i am not talking about fox news. As long as it server their corporate masters' interests the US&Uk press corp is just one giant machine to sell believable lies for profit. Them suddenly trying to fight "fake news" because one half it is in bed with a white nationalist is so loving ridiculous, sorry. So your position is that papers put out pro-war agitprop they can't fight back against a white nationalist now? That's insane. You oppose white nationalists with every drat tool you have every drat time, because we know what happens when they get real power. The whole "press is out to sell us lies, man" is not an acceptable position for a thinking adult to have. There is no objective position on issues, but this solipsistic crap is just a way to punt and not bother even trying to figure out what actually is going on. quote:. And it would be nice if the "Putin hacked the us election" guys would try to do the same. Because it's loving hard not to see the same crazy behavior on both side of the US political&journalistic spectrum when you all really rely on crazy conspiracy theories the second you lose. Same poo poo, just a (D) instead of a (R) this time. You won't hear any argument with me on making GBS threads on this stupid position. Putin definitely tried (and succeeded) in tipping the election, but there was no direct hacking of the voting machines. I think there's pretty good evidence that it was Russians who hacked the DNC, though. Unless you're so deep into solipsistic that you don't believe anything anyone says. quote:Well the reason the alt right is spreading that insane conspiracy so well is because they are claiming it's being censored . The main problem is that there is no loving coherent message against said conspiracy (except "maybe we should do something"), just people panicking around trying to do something, anything really to stop the rival message. And it's kinda helping it. The coherent message is "sue the gently caress out of Alex Jones and crew until they are living in the poor house", and having the internet services voluntarily not push this crazy agenda. The alt right is going to scream censorship at any manner of non-governmental action, because we have an unhealthy belief that internet free speech means that you get to say anything with zero consequences, that every private carrier has to allow your filth to be published, and anyone who thinks before they say things are "self-censoring". We've seen this stuff with all the various nerd community stuff on the internet, and the lack of punishment on it has lead to it spilling into normal culture with horrible and predictable results.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:25
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rkajdi posted:So your position is that papers put out pro-war agitprop they can't fight back against a white nationalist now? That's insane. You oppose white nationalists with every drat tool you have every drat time, because we know what happens when they get real power. The whole "press is out to sell us lies, man" is not an acceptable position for a thinking adult to have. There is no objective position on issues, but this solipsistic crap is just a way to punt and not bother even trying to figure out what actually is going on. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 17:45
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I think anyone taking the "fake news" stories at face value is living on a different planet than I am. It's a real problem. It's not a new problem. The idea that it's restricted to the far right is pretty dumb, as well, and belies a lack of exposure to large parts of the internet. The inability of basically competent, if domesticated, institutions like WaPo or NYT to self-reflect on this with even a modicum of self-awareness -- just shows that they have become more part of a constructed narrative than they are "free press". At a really simplistic level, I think WaPo/NYT are taking this personally because it helps them deflect their own shortcomings, "our subscriptions are down because everyone is getting hoodwinked by all this fake news". Nope, your subscriptions are down because you've been doing a lovely job for a decade and a half, possessing an inability to understand and keep up with tech changes along with a more toxic inability to distance yourselves from the technological/corporate/military complex that you claim to be policing with journalistic integrity. I realize that's a bit vitriolic, but this whole meme strikes me as media navel gazing, rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic without paying attention to the hull breach. "Fake news" is a reflection of the failure of traditional journalism, not the reason for it.
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Dec 7, 2016 17:57
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Tim Raines IRL posted:At a really simplistic level, I think WaPo/NYT are taking this personally because it helps them deflect their own shortcomings, "our subscriptions are down because everyone is getting hoodwinked by all this fake news". Nope, your subscriptions are down because you've been doing a lovely job for a decade and a half, possessing an inability to understand and keep up with tech changes along with a more toxic inability to distance yourselves from the technological/corporate/military complex that you claim to be policing with journalistic integrity. Fake news is really cheap to write because it doesn't require any actual reporting. Man this poo poo makes me almost convinced to subscribe to the NYT. I can't stand this "more cynical than thou" crap.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:09
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Tim Raines IRL posted:I realize that's a bit vitriolic, but this whole meme strikes me as media navel gazing, rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic without paying attention to the hull breach. "Fake news" is a reflection of the failure of traditional journalism, not the reason for it. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 18:10
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Mulaney Power Move posted:I don't think her art is good, I think it's creepy, and Dali was a weird guy too except I actually like some of his paintings. Just because I don't share your tastes in weird performance art doesn't mean I'm ignorant or "don't get it," unless you simply want to be pretentious. it's hard to be more pretentious then dismissing anything you don't understand as fundamentally flawed rkajdi posted:I think the issue is that it's more middle American ignorati claiming stuff they don't like is Satanist or worthy of a whispers campaign about. These people are walking into a conversation they know nothing about and getting mad that they don't like what is being discussed. Again, ignorance is something to be ashamed of, not a virtue. pretty much. it's the same as people claiming heavy metal was satanist back in the 80's. black sabbath's bassist was a devout christian, all the sabbath songs about satan very clearly talk about him in either a negative or vaguely unsettling neutral context, but that still didn't stop rumors about ozzy biting the head off a bat on stage. when judas priest was accused of using backwards messages to tell children to kill themselves for the devil, their producer said "if that technology existed i'd tell them to buy two copies of our records". people get creeped out if they lack the cultural context to understand an art and that's on them, not on the artist boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 18:13
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BarbarianElephant posted:Man this poo poo makes me almost convinced to subscribe to the NYT. I can't stand this "more cynical than thou" crap. I subscribed to WaPo recently because as much as I could write paragraphs about all the ways I think they're hosed up, they need the money. Also I was annoyed by constantly having to use incognito windows to read reddit links.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:19
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Tim Raines IRL posted:I subscribed to WaPo recently because as much as I could write paragraphs about all the ways I think they're hosed up, they need the money. There are actual nonprofits out there that do actual good reporting. Donate to one of them.
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Dec 7, 2016 18:25
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boner confessor posted:pretty much. it's the same as people claiming heavy metal was satanist back in the 80's. black sabbath's bassist was a devout christian, all the sabbath songs about satan very clearly talk about him in either a negative or vaguely unsettling neutral context, but that still didn't stop rumors about ozzy biting the head off a bat on stage. when judas priest was accused of using backwards messages to tell children to kill themselves for the devil, their producer said "if that technology existed i'd tell them to buy two copies of our records". people get creeped out if they lack the cultural context to understand an art and that's on them, not on the artist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R21tWs-qCw Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Dec 7, 2016 |
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Dec 7, 2016 18:29
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boner confessor posted:it's hard to be more pretentious then dismissing anything you don't understand as fundamentally flawed yeah ok
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Dec 7, 2016 18:29
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Rent-A-Cop posted:You talk about the Washington Post like it's a fuckin charity. you're assuming a lot, but thanks for the tip
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Dec 7, 2016 18:30
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