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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Best Buy will be fine. If you look at the moves they've made in the last few years, they've become super aggressive to responding to the threat of internet sales. They've gotten rid of rebates and they got rid of restocking fees. They've aggressively matched prices to amazon and online retailers. They've shrunk floor space of items declining in sales like movies and music and expanding big ticket items that don't commonly get purchased online like appliances and high end TVs. Even more importantly they've expanded heavily in the "store within a store" concept and have companies like Apple and Samsung buying floorspace in their stores at a premium.

On the flip side, Amazon is no longer the sure fire bet for lowest price. Often times they just match whatever local big box has it for. For any big purchase I just check Best Buy or Target first and if they aren't cheaper they will happily match it anyways. Amazon is coasting on their reputation and if they didn't have so much money coming from AWS they would be in trouble.

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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Raylen posted:

Not sure what thread this should go in but Amazon buying Whole Foods is kind of hilarious. They really want to get their cashier-free stores going with this acquisition.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-amazon-whole-foods-20170616-story.html

Amazon is killing saving brick and mortar! :argh:

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Baronjutter posted:

Haha holy poo poo Amazon
"Amazon granted a patent that prevents in-store shoppers from online price checking"
https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/15/15812986/amazon-patent-online-price-checking

I thought stores already did this is you used their in-store wifi (which is what this patent covers).

Coinicentally, whenever I'm at my local Lowes and try to check pricing at Home Depot, the website frequently times out :tinfoil:

Also, very clever of Amazon to patent this and then not allow anyone to license it so no one can implement the technology to block price checking.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I was in a Sears Grand store last weekend and there were a grand total of 30 cars in the parking lot mid-day Saturday.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Amazon Go is never going to see widespread adoption for a long, long time if ever.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

My local Ikea put in self service checkouts and it went about as well as you can image people trying to self checkout with pieces of loving huge multi-box furniture and household goods where you cannot spell or pronounce the name.

They ended up ripping them all out six months later.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Heliogabalos posted:

citation needed, I want the exact loving statute that exactly words this in no uncertain terms

I'll wait

edit: \/\/ oh right I can see the exact part where Grandma will be forcibly detained for hitting 4 instead of 5 and paying 43 cents for a russet potato instead 46 cents for a yukon gold

are you this insufferable in real life? jesus sit down and drink some bleach

Heliogabalos posted:

I used to be a teacher.

lmao

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Amazon just announced a new clothing feature called "Amazon Wardrobe."

You can pick clothes off of Amazon, pay nothing upfront, try them on, and send them back for free.

You are only charged for the clothes if you don't send them back within 8 days.

You can have up to 15 items out at once and you get discounts on the items you decide to keep.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/amazon-prime-wardrobe/

So if I send everything back and then just order another box I can have my own rent-a-swag scheme going?

Imma bout to order 15 Trilbys and just swam em out.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I went into an Old Navy outlet store a few weeks back and holy poo poo the place was packed. People are still buying clothes but they're looking for deals, not fashion.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Toys R Us is probably going under.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/06/toys-r-us-weighs-possible-bankruptcy-filing.html

quote:

Toys R Us hires law firm as it explores possible bankruptcy filing Toys R Us hires law firm as it explores possible bankruptcy filing
Toys R Us has hired a law firm to help restructure its roughly $400 million in debt due in 2018, a move that could include the marquee toy store filing for bankruptcy protection, sources familiar with the situation said Wednesday.
...

Wayne, New Jersey-based Toys R Us blamed intense promotional activity and slowing baby business sales for its disappointing 2016 holiday results. The company, which relies heavily on holiday purchases to support its year-round business, saw same-store sales drop 3.4 percent from the previous holiday season.

The weaknesses have carried into the spring, with the company reporting in June that it had a net loss of $164 million in the fiscal first quarter of 2017, widening from $126 million a year earlier. Its same-store sales dropped 4.1 percent.

Toys R Us had roughly $301 million in cash on its balance sheet as of April 29.


I worked for TRU right out of high school from 2000-2003. Near the end of my employment, Amazon was making their way into the market but Walmart has recently tripled the number of toy items they carried. This was also before Target doubled their toy section as well.

When I got laid off in 2003, KB Toys folded and TRU had already begun closing a bunch of low-performing stores. Management had already openly expressed that Toys R Us was dead, but the company would be propped up by Babies R Us for as long as they could. That's when they expanded the BRU sections in TRU or made every store a TRU/BRU combination store.

Looks like the BRU money finally ran out. I'm guessing if they don't completely go away that they'll restructure as only Babies R Us with a small toy section now. Baby poo poo is still wildly profitable.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Haifisch posted:

Plus when they buy off Amazon they don't have to deal with their kid racing around and seeing 50 more things they want right now.

Honestly surprised they haven't been in bigger trouble earlier. Clothing retail could have a chance because a lot of people would still rather try on clothes before buying them, big box stores have the 'get a wide variety of things without waiting for shipping' factor but toys? It's not anything special and definitely not something you'd need urgently, why bother buying it from a brick and mortar place?

e: I r very gud at spelling.

Baby Registries have probably been keeping them alive for the last decade. The TRU division has been a walking corpse for 15 years now, it's all been about the baby stuff.

Some of you may remember that Toys R Us's online strategy was to parter with Amazon. They signed a 10 year deal to be the only toy seller on Amazon.

Amazon ended up loving them over and setting TRU's online strategy back a decade.

quote:

Prior to 2000, Toys R Us operated web sites at toysrus.com and babiesrus.com. By its own account, Toys R Us' online performance in 1999 was highly unsatisfactory. During 1999, Toys R Us did not have adequate inventory and fulfillment capabilities to meet the online demand for its products.

Amazon's performance in the toy arena in 1999 was similarly flawed. While it sold $65 million in toy products during that year, it purchased an additional $35 million in toy inventory it did not sell. This was a significant negative, given Amazon's inability to return this inventory to the vendors from whom it had been purchased.

The parties respective performances in 1999 created the opportunity for the transaction at the heart of this litigation. In early 2000, Toys R Us approached Amazon about the possibility of a partnership, which would marry Toys R Us's expertise in the toy arena, and its relationships with vendors, with Amazon's online prowess, and both its fulfillment and customer service capabilities.

The parties had differing visions as to how to best achieve their joint goal of a highly successful, online toy store. Toys R Us believed the road to success called for a focus on the top, best selling toys, which accounted for most of the toy sales in any given year. The key was to identify these toys, and have them in stock in supplies necessary to meet the high demand of the Thanksgiving to Christmas selling season, when the bulk of the product was sold. Here, Toy's experience was crucial, particularly given the fact that toy orders must be placed six to eight months before the Christmas season, and thus reflected an investment in inventory that may or may not sell, depending on public taste. Toys R Us did not want to offer the complete universe of toys, because of the inventory risk attendant thereto, arising out of the potential failure of portions of this inventory to sell.

Amazon had a different view. Consistent with its general operational philosophy of offering the customer the largest product selection available, Amazon wanted to offer as many toys as possible on its website. Amazon did not want to limit toy selection only to the best selling toys.

The parties ultimately entered into a Strategic Alliance Agreement in August 2000. The parties faced significant time constraints in the negotiation of this Agreement, as their joint desire was to have a site operational for the Christmas 2000 selling season.

Under this ten year Agreement, Toys R Us agreed to abandon its own operational websites, and migrate its online presence to Amazon's site. At that site the parties would create co-branded toy and baby product stores, jointly bearing the Amazon and Toys R Us marks. These stores would sell products selected and purchased by Toys R Us, which would own the inventory it determined to offer for sale on the site. Fulfillment and customer service would be supplied by Amazon. Amazon would also be responsible for site development and maintenance, including the site's 'look and feel.'

Toys R Us agreed to pay Amazon an annual fee, ultimately agreed to be $50 million a year, for the first four years of the agreement. Additional participation in the revenues generated by the store's online sales was also provided for in the Strategic Alliance Agreement.

As originally created, the parties' toy store was assigned a navigational "tab" that appeared prominently at the top of Amazon's home page. Clicking on this "tab" took a consumer to the co-branded online toy store. Other navigational links were also provided, including a link on the site's home page - again labeled "toys" -- in a navigational guide appearing on the left-hand side of the site's home page.

Between August 2000 and 2003, the parties jointly operated the toy store. Thereafter, Amazon pursued a number of initiatives that permitted third parties to sell toys on its site - both toys Toys R Us had elected not to sell, and toys then being sold by Toys R Us. These ventures took various forms. Third parties were permitted to post 'sponsored links' on Amazon's website, via Google advertisements. Clicking on these links took consumers off Amazon's site to those of third parties, at which toy purchases could be made. Amazon derived revenue from a consumer's click on such links that it did not share with Toys R Us.

Amazon also permitted third parties to sell toys on its site via use of its 1x1 GUI technology, and via various merchant@ agreements. These agreements permitted third parties, including toy sellers, to sell toys on Amazon's website. Some of those toys were listed on the very same web pages that displayed Toys R Us offerings. These included both toys Toys R Us had elected not to sell, as well as a smaller amount of toys it had in fact elected to sell. Access to such third party selling sites could also be obtained via searches for toys performed from the co-branded Toys R Us-Amazon toy store itself. Amazon also modified its site. During this modification, the prominent "tab" to the co-branded toy store that appeared at the top of the Amazon.com home page (along with tabs pointing to other stores) was eliminated.

These selling initiatives created disputes between the parties. When they could not be resolved, Toys R Us commenced this suit, charging that they constituted a breach of the parties' agreement. Toys R Us sought to terminate the agreement. It also sought to recover damages for its breach. Amazon counterclaimed, asserting Toys R Us had breached the agreement by failing either to maintain the appropriate number of toys for sale on the site, or keep sufficient inventory of such goods on hand to meet customer demand.

http://www.internetlibrary.com/cases/lib_case424.cfm

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

just mentally add 10% to the price its not that hard gently caress

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

but do you brits wipe your rear end with sales-tax-included receipts whilst sitting or standing?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Today I went into a Kohls for the first time in years because they've now become a drop-off point for free Amazon returns.

Weird to see a dying department store strengthen Amazon's power even more. However if you return anything to Amazon, they give you a free 25% off coupon to Kohls and we ended up buying some coats for Christmas gifts so I guess the system works?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

OneEightHundred posted:

Kind of weird that Toys R Us is doing bad even while Disney is revving the Star Wars/MCU merchandising machine into overdrive, but it sounds like Babies R Us has turned into a boat anchor, and the rest of the toy business is getting drained by video games, which Toys R Us was once the biggest retailer of, but has since lost most of their market share.

Babies R Us has been the only thing keeping Toys R Us alive.

I worked for TRU in 2000 when Walmart and Target announced they were going to drastically expand their toy sections at the same time they announced their ill-fated Amazon partnership. That was the beginning of the slow death of TRU.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I worked for Fry's Electronics for 8 years and that place is just straight up dead now. No one in the stores at all during their busiest times. I'm sure their online sales have boomed since they seem to have gotten their site working finally.

I wonder why they haven't closed any stores yet? When I started working there they were opening 1-2 stores a year, the last store there opened was in 2004 and it's just been in steep decline ever since.

I do know that they own their own land and buildings and the Fry's brothers are rich as gently caress, but idgi.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

There's an entire subreddit dedicated to businesses that took over former Pizza Hut buildings.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FormerPizzaHuts/

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

RandomPauI posted:

Our Fry's was purpose built, if I remember right. Our theme is Oxnard, but the decor is more like "generic coffeeshop with a Fry's built around it".

The Oxnard store is the only Fry’s built in a strip mall. All other stores are stand alone.

It’s also the worst performing store in the company lol

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

TyroneGoldstein posted:

Kohls is in that market segment that's doing ok, at least from their balance sheet. They made around a billion in profit last year, maybe a bit more. They're in that whole Nordstrom Rack/TJ Maxx/Marshalls/whatevs discounter segment that everyone loves.

My wife and her friends all go crazy for those “60% off!” and Kohl’s cash games that I just do not like to play. I’ve checked her receipts and she’s actually getting stuff cheaper than anywhere else so I guess she’s playing the game right.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

My old job used to have two Del Tacos across the street from each other. Man that was heaven.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/946977423794589696

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

The “$10 large pizza” is the dollar menu of the fast food world. The cheap item to bring people in and hope they spend another $8 on breadsticks too.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

RandomPauI posted:

A few days old, but what southern Californian wouldn't like a one-stop shop for a fresh-from-frozen sandwhich, porn dvds, a cellphone case, cash register paper, an as-seen-on-tv ramen cooker, and a pci-e audio card?

I think Frys finally removed their porn DVDs from the stores. My local one doesn’t have them anymore last time I went.

I’d say a good 10-15% of lost prevention arrests were old grandpas trying to steal porn DVDs too.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Most of the Sears are closing in the next 3 weeks too, that's fast.

http://searsholdings.com/docs/010418-store-closing-list.pdf

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

It's so weird. You just wanna grab Sears by the collar and shake them and say "What happened?!? You owned the goddamn world! You were the center of all retail and now you're slowly dying without changing a goddamn thing! Do something!"

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

You Are A Elf posted:

I was in a Sears last Friday for shits and giggles and went directly to the tools section. It's practically non-existent now with only two aisles full of Craftsman hand tools that are overpriced junk (seriously, Kobalt and Husky tools at Lowe's and Home Depot are much better quality at a cheaper price, with lifetime guarantee, to boot), and one row of power tools, mainly mitre saws. A lot of the tools weren't even the common stuff you'd see like ratchets and sockets, but those gimmicky tools no one ever wants or uses and don't work. The rest of the old section (which used to be a quarter of the upper floor) was filled with Craftsman®©™-branded safety work shirts (those neon yellow and safety orange colors).

I mean, there was a metric fucklooooaaad of those shirts as far as the eye can see. It was certainly something, but I guess they've gotta fill in all that empty space somehow to make the store look like it's got product.

This same Sears just last year on Black Friday looked like a fully stocked, bright and clean store with holiday decorations everywhere that made at least some loyal customers want to come in and take a look around. Now it looks like the store that time and care forgot.

The Sears I went in to a few weeks ago (which is one of the ones closing) had half their tool section dedicated to riding lawnmowers in an area of the country where lots don't exceed 10,000 sq. ft.

What are you doing Sears?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I worked for Toys R Us when they opened their enourmous Times Square location in 2001.

It closed down two years ago.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

turn all sears into stores that exclusively sell prepper supplies

Edit: are there prepper stores besides army surplus?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Haifisch posted:

There's one here that's right next door to one, although they have separate parking areas. It's not closing(yet?), though.

JnnyThndrs posted:

The one in Sacramento that’s closing is a few hundred yards from the back of a Wal-Mart as well.



Pretty sure that's be design. Most of the new Walmarts going up in my area have a Sams Club also being built in the same shopping center.

Makes logistics a hell of a lot easier and I'd wager all the Sams Club shoppers are regular Walmart shoppers as well. They're complimentary, not competitive.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I haven't read a book in years but I read a shitload of online short and long form articles every day :shrug:

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

The_Franz posted:

Yep, that's what happened to the one in my hometown. Sam's opened in the early 90s and basically had a monopoly on the wholesale market in the area. As the years wore on that store started to feel more and more dilapidated though, and when a BJ's opened not too far away around Y2K it was like a breath of fresh air: some of the merchandise seemed to be of better quality, the store felt less depressing, etc... Evidently they lost a lot of business to BJ's and when you combined that with the strip mall in which they were located being in the early stages of becoming a dead mall they ended up closing in 2005 or thereabouts.

I got a basically free Sams Club membership off Groupon and bought a set of trash cans there, the kind that open with your foot.

The mechanism broke on one of them within 3 months and i took them back, aksing if I could swap one, or if they were out, to return the set and buy a new matching set.

They refused and told me to contact the manufacturer and the manufacturer wanted me to ship a $40 trashcan back to Thailand so i threw them both in the trash and bought a new set from Costco the next week.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

OneEightHundred posted:

The one wrinkle in the Costco doing everything so much better theory is that BJ's isn't really anything special and they're still outcompeting Sam's Club in their territory for whatever reason.

Costco is a great company.

BJs is an average company

Sams Club/Walmart is a terrible company.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

KingFisher posted:

So paying 1/3rd more than average retail wages, stock, benefits, employee education programs.

Looks like if every retail job was replaced with an Amazon warehouse job, millions of people would be better off financially.

Last time I checked people working in retail weren't in unions either, and it is way easier to unionize an entire Warehouse or all of a single firms warehouses then you know one Old Navy store at a time.

So I'm still not buying it.

your company can’t seem to stop killing people by working them to death in their warehouses you corporate stooge

i did retail for 9 years of my life and would never ever step foot into an amazon warehouse

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

JustJeff88 posted:

True, but it's quite easy to engineer something for which patches, updates and technical support will be discontinued when it's still perfectly functional in order to make people buy The Next Big Thing™, if only out of frustration. Much more than two years, but Microsoft is doing everything short of holding a dagger to my throat to get me to upgrade to Windows 10 when I'm still very happy with 7. I don't expect them to support Win7 forever, but I'd rather that they not choke me until I overpay for 10 for want of oxygen.

Windows 7 is nearly a decade old and will still be supported for 2 more years and they gave away Windows 10 for free. What more do you want man?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Toys R Us closing another 180 stores in the US
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-toys-r-us-says-to-shut-about-180-us-stores-2018-1

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

BarbarianElephant posted:

I predict the stores will be hard to maintain, and people will be often shoplifting by accident due to broken cameras and wifi issues.

They were talking about it on a podcast with one of the guys who checked it out. They use cameras to see the shelves and items, not weights or sensors, so as soon as you take an item off the shelf and walk away an employee has to come over and "reset" the shelf again with the products up front so the next customer can be charged properly. It's a hilariously inefficient system.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Mozi posted:

I've never heard anything like that before in all the articles about those stores, so a source would be nice.

It was the guy who did the Ars article. He kept mentioning that there’s not really any shelf sensors, but it’s just a grid of hundreds of cameras that track everything you pick up and put down in the store. He did see some sensors in the back of the refrigerated shelves but suspects its additional cameras.

Shelf sensors seem like it would be difficult to determine who picked up an item where a camera system could track a single product no matter where it went. Cameras make more sense than weight sensors when you think of something like 1% or 2% milk. If I pick up a 1% and realize that I needed 2% but put it back in the wrong spot, I get charged for the wrong thing and inventory is screwed. Cameras with unique packaging fixes that. I may have misremembered the need for shelf resetting though.

Here’s him talking at around 29 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dPlWMSr1pk

FCKGW fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Jan 29, 2018

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Bloomberg made an American Mall Simulator that you can't win
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/american-mall-game/

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Panfilo posted:

Costco has a really generous return policy too but I don't see them getting rid of it anytime soon. You might argue that requiring a membership there helps cut down on dishonesty but they waive the fee if you use their card and spend a fees worth of money in a year (so a hundred bucks or whatever, not hard to accomplish).

Costco already modified their electronics return policy due to rampant abuse.

Also to get the fee waved you’d need to spend $5000/yr exclusively at Costco which is actually a lot.

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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I hate Costco gas because everyone around here min/maxes their gas purchase to the point where they’re time is valueless as long as they find the absolute lowest price and as a consequence the Costco gas lines are always a minimum 20 minute wait no matter what time you go.

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