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Take me an hour to go to like 35 miles on the state rail lines, what the heck?
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Jan 23, 2017 04:58
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tldr: cause passenger rail shares right of ways with freight rail, also the current state of american infrastructure
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Jan 23, 2017 04:59
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It's funny cause those are the same reasons the roads suck too.
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Jan 23, 2017 05:04
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Concordat posted:It's funny cause those are the same reasons the roads suck too. boy do they ever
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Jan 23, 2017 05:08
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Mariana Horchata posted:tldr: cause passenger rail shares right of ways with freight rail, also the current state of american infrastructure It's my understanding that the enabling legislation for Amtrak mandates passenger right-of-way but enforcement is effectively nonexistent.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:23
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Concordat posted:Take me an hour to go to like 35 miles on the state rail lines, what the heck? a lack of political ability to make money for your developer friends while saying gently caress you to all the podunk useless stops inbetween two places worth going I am going to build a loving highspeed passenger rail between two American cities, just you loving watch me.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:26
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automobiles and everyone who profits off them
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Jan 23, 2017 06:32
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think of america less as a first-world developed nation and more as a third-world country with some of the trappings (increasingly less of them over the past 35+ years) of developed nations
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Jan 23, 2017 06:35
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Lamebot posted:automobiles and everyone who profits off them shifts in neighborhood contexts certainly had a lot to do with it. we kinda went crazy in the 50s when we discovered the new graft potential of highways, and how they could be used to reinforce segregation during an era of desegregation Increasing rail use starts with figuring out how to make your friends money off developing a line, and then having a private consortium supported with public bonds build the drat thing. The other hosed up bit about Amtrak is that they operate one service, rather than local and express service. gently caress all them small town podunk stations, the votes to fund Amtrak come from islands of urbanities. Lets look at Amtrak from Chicago to new orleans. no fuckn way that thing should stop at champaign, at carbondale, at fuckn rantoul: run it loving straight through and force folk to transfer to a local if they wanna go anywhere else.
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Jan 23, 2017 06:37
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get that OUT of my face posted:think of america less as a first-world developed nation and more as a third-world country with some of the trappings (increasingly less of them over the past 35+ years) of developed nations whereas 2,000 years is a long time in Europe, 2,000 miles is a long distance in America. America is a whole order larger than Europe, where germany is geographically akin to Texas. The other issue is that when discussing passenger rail, folk would be more accurate to discuss it on a state by state basis rather than as a national issue. Why is there no line between Minneapolis and Duluth? No line between Minneapolis and Des Moines? Those are better questions than 'Why is Illinois' passenger rail network so loving awesome?'
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Jan 23, 2017 06:40
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My Imaginary GF posted:shifts in neighborhood contexts certainly had a lot to do with it. we kinda went crazy in the 50s when we discovered the new graft potential of highways, and how they could be used to reinforce segregation during an era of desegregation
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Jan 23, 2017 06:46
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My Imaginary GF posted:a lack of political ability to make money for your developer friends while saying gently caress you to all the podunk useless stops inbetween two places worth going stfu
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Jan 23, 2017 08:37
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I think the answer you're looking for is Capitalism.
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Jan 23, 2017 08:47
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get that OUT of my face posted:robert moses was the master of this. i really ought to get a copy of The Power Broker Yea and Who framed Roger Rabbit? was based on a true story
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Jan 23, 2017 13:26
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some of the intercontinental routes lose as much as 60 million a year; no private investor is ever going to build something like that. even if high-speed replaces those routes there's no way they will ever get build without massive public investment to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars and i find it pretty unbelievable that the government is going to spend that much on trains e: that might change now that barron's in the white house Mayor Dave has issued a correction as of 13:52 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 13:33
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Economically it's cars plus the fact that we blew our infrastructure load decades ago on the interstate highway system (and we haven't built another infrastructure load despite what First Citizen Trump would have you believe) Culturally/socially I think it's the idea that Americans are fiercely independent and don't want to "share" transportation with each other, we'd much rather roll out in our respective whips and not have to consider other people except when mandated by traffic laws.
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Jan 23, 2017 13:44
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Because direct government investment in infrastructure is apparently communism op
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Jan 23, 2017 14:12
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Also white flight. Wouldn't want functional, affordable public transit to allow black people in the pristine suburbs.
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Jan 23, 2017 14:19
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Mayor Dave posted:some of the intercontinental routes lose as much as 60 million a year; no private investor is ever going to build something like that. even if high-speed replaces those routes there's no way they will ever get build without massive public investment to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars and i find it pretty unbelievable that the government is going to spend that much on trains so cut the intercontinental routes. run amtrak like a business and quit buying lovely japanese rolling stock rebuilding passenger rail in america starts with you advocating for local routes without bullshit why the gently caress should a train from the twin cities to duluth make any loving stops, much less go through wisconsin? gently caress the cheeseheads!
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Jan 23, 2017 14:20
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Rail is for moving cars to market, not people to work. US rail works just fine.
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Jan 23, 2017 15:40
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Always seems weird to me that it costs more to take a train long distance then it does to fly in most cases.
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Jan 23, 2017 15:55
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also the fact that unlike europe post war USA wasnt in ruins and had cheap gas and a strong economy that enabled the middle class to purchase their own personal means of transportation - so the demand for dedicated high speed rail infrastructure was never really a thing in america until things became too filled up to make developing such infrastructure economically sensible (see big dig in boston, or lol the 2nd Ave subway in nyc)
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Jan 23, 2017 16:34
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LorneReams posted:Always seems weird to me that it costs more to take a train long distance then it does to fly in most cases. modern planes are incredibly energy efficient
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Jan 23, 2017 16:40
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multiple states, including Ohio and Florida, were all set to build brand new high-speed passenger rail lines using federal stimulus money in 2010 or so, then elected crazy tea party governors who shut these projects down immediately it's Kochs all the way down: http://www.attn.com/stories/295/how-two-billionaires-are-destroying-high-speed-rail-america this especially bothers me because the one in Florida would have been loving *finished* by now and I could be taking the drat train to Orlando every few weeks instead of having to drive along I4, one of the deadliest highways in the country ed: the single deadliest highway in the country the bitcoin of weed has issued a correction as of 16:58 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 16:54
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Fullhouse posted:multiple states, including Ohio and Florida, were all set to build brand new high-speed passenger rail lines using federal stimulus money in 2010 or so, then elected crazy tea party governors who shut these projects down immediately yeah i recall a few other examples in the works (proposed, or at the environmental impact study stage) around right before the recession took hold - each in select regional intercity markets, Florida as u mentioned, and also Texas, California, and possibly Ohio iirc. Im assuming each one of these in DOA or at least shelved indefinitely by now 
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Jan 23, 2017 18:26
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There was an initiative for a high-speed rail system out of Detroit and servicing SE Michigan that was narrowly defeated a year or two ago. Personally I would love to have a train system worth using here, I have to drive 10 hours one-way to see my family so even if it took the same amount of time being able to sleep/read/game would be so much better than having to be glued to the wheel the whole time. Doubly so if they let me crate my dog and bring him along.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:12
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C-Euro posted:Economically it's cars plus the fact that we blew our infrastructure load decades ago on the interstate highway system (and we haven't built another infrastructure load despite what First Citizen Trump would have you believe) that and Europeans have nothing better to do that sit on a train for 3 days to get where you could get on an airplane in 5 hours. We're busy.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:26
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Intercity rail without corresponding investment in local mass transit doesn't get you a whole lot. What good is being able to take a train somewhere if once you get dropped off at the station you have to rent a car anyway? Might as well just take a plane. And if you can't afford or otherwise aren't in a position to rent a car then you're just at a train station with nowhere to go.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:36
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https://twitter.com/rembert/status/822866602974711808
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Jan 23, 2017 19:37
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Thoguh posted:What good is being able to take a train somewhere if once you get dropped off at the station you have to rent a car anyway? I don't see how this doesn't also apply to planes but yes I think a major part of the special interest against intercity rail is a fear that investment in such things will then result in increased investment in local transport, and that might marginally reduce the death grip of car culture on our society also, as someone who has traveled by both plane and train, intercity trains are millions of times more comfortable and casual. travelling by plane is awful the bitcoin of weed has issued a correction as of 19:42 on Jan 23, 2017 |
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Jan 23, 2017 19:39
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Fullhouse posted:I don't see how this doesn't also apply to planes It does. I was just pointing out that intra-city rail doesn't by itself really fix anything. The whole way transportation works outside of maybe half a dozen cities in the country would have to change.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:55
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Thoguh posted:Intercity rail without corresponding investment in local mass transit doesn't get you a whole lot. What good is being able to take a train somewhere if once you get dropped off at the station you have to rent a car anyway? Might as well just take a plane. And if you can't afford or otherwise aren't in a position to rent a car then you're just at a train station with nowhere to go. Well there's also rail service that will transport your car, I believe, so once you're at your destination, you can drive off
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Jan 23, 2017 20:54
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Mayor Dave posted:some of the intercontinental routes lose as much as 60 million a year; no private investor is ever going to build something like that. even if high-speed replaces those routes there's no way they will ever get build without massive public investment to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars and i find it pretty unbelievable that the government is going to spend that much on trains My Imaginary GF posted:so cut the intercontinental routes. run amtrak like a business and quit buying lovely japanese rolling stock Yeah! Amtrak shouldn't lose money it should make money just like the highway system does.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:09
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Also our trillion dollar military.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:09
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sometimes i forget that little autists grow up to be big autists
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Jan 23, 2017 21:13
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As a certified railfan (tm DO NOT STEAL), part of the problem is government, part of the problem is the freight companies. Amtrak really only owns track along the North East Corridor (aka Acela Corridor). Beyond that, they're mostly at the mercy of the freight company's dispatchers, who are legally bound to give priority to passenger trains, but in practice that doesn't happen (and the government really does nothing about it). "Oh, sorry, that mile long coal drag juuuuust happened to get to the signal before you, so it was given the go-ahead. You'll just have to wait, sorry!" This is more of a problem on long distance routes where single tracking is common, but on routes with very little to no single track portions, timing is better. Oh, and you better hope there's no passenger trains being run by the track owners, those get #1 priority and you can't do a thing about it.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:08
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alternative fact for the next 8 years: FRA over-reach, positive train control, and unions are why rail sucks in america
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Jan 24, 2017 00:48
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gently caress off, migf
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Jan 24, 2017 00:51
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My Imaginary GF posted:alternative fact for the next 8 years: FRA over-reach, positive train control, and unions are why rail sucks in america you're right about ptc but you're also autistic for knowing about it while not working for the railroad
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Jan 24, 2017 00:54
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jarofpiss posted:you're right about ptc but you're also autistic for knowing about it while not working for the railroad who the gently caress among us ain't spent a summer in college workn on a track gang because they had their name put in?
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Jan 24, 2017 00:57
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