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Ugly In The Morning posted:Or hosed it all up. Humanity's flawed but we got this way over millennia of natural selection. Learning from the past is going to have better results than removing traits that put us on the moon and created cultures over thousands of years, but destroyed the ozone layer and led to inequality. Conditioning out socially undesirable aspects of people is what normal folks call kindergarten, or maybe potty training.
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Dec 20, 2017 01:39
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IIRC it was a factor of not having the time to really do that, nevermind the difficulty of it, as well as it being a guaranteed controversy so priority was just to get humanity's future safely tucked away first. And then the Alphas got Ted loving Faro'd.
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Dec 20, 2017 05:05
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Argas posted:IIRC it was a factor of not having the time to really do that, nevermind the difficulty of it, as well as it being a guaranteed controversy so priority was just to get humanity's future safely tucked away first. To my understanding the principle reason behind it was the Eleuthia Alpha was responsible for writing the treaties, laws and accords that restricted/prohibited those kind of eugenics so they basically didn't do it because he didn't agree with it. Unless the supplemental reading elaborated. I didn't read/listen to much of that.
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Dec 20, 2017 07:09
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the person in charge of apollo was an iranian lady so if anything faro saved us from sharia law
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Dec 20, 2017 07:16
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ChrisBTY posted:Taking measures to condition out egocentrism, obstinance and aggression might have done wonders. how the gently caress do you think genetics works
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Dec 20, 2017 07:26
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Given that the elutheria project exists in a world where it is scientifically possible to create clones-to-order (hence the accords) I would have to say that theirs is a society that can isolate genetic markers making one vulnerable to both genetic defects as well as isolating strands that might lead to brains developing more like Helis and less like Aloy and removing them. In the interest of full disclosure, I was a C student at best in science, but we're talking about make-believe future science anyway.
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Dec 21, 2017 08:55
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Got around to finishing the last bits of it. Ted Faro did nothing wrong.
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Dec 21, 2017 09:40
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The Eleuthia Alpha was pretty adamant in following whatever bio-engineering accords were already in place, which probably included all kinds of bylaws against attempting to breed out "undesirable" genetic traits. Project Zero Dawn was a huge gamble: You're planning to reseed the entire world anyway, might as well cast as wide of a genetic net as possible. Even a monster like Helis could have wound up differently if he wasn't caught in a series of events for which he had no understanding, as Aloy mentions.
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Dec 21, 2017 09:47
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ChrisBTY posted:Given that the elutheria project exists in a world where it is scientifically possible to create clones-to-order (hence the accords) I would have to say that theirs is a society that can isolate genetic markers making one vulnerable to both genetic defects as well as isolating strands that might lead to brains developing more like Helis and less like Aloy and removing them. Apparently you never saw Gattaca, either.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:46
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Zerilan posted:Got around to finishing the last bits of it. Ted Faro did nothing wrong. 
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Dec 21, 2017 14:50
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Fuzz posted:Apparently you never saw Gattaca, either. To be fair Gattaca didn't have an extinction separating the "legacy" version of humanity from the "designer" version.
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Dec 21, 2017 14:54
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Finished the game earlier this week and have been catching up on this thread. I just want to say: gently caress Ted Faro. That is all. Thank you.
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Jan 7, 2018 05:17
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theCalamity posted:I just want to say: gently caress Ted Faro. I got one of my co-workers to try this. Told her I’ll know when she’s near the end because I expect her to come in one day and utter those three magical words. I didn’t tell her which three words because spoilers, obviously. But it still brings a smile to my face when I see people post that.
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Jan 7, 2018 14:45
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ShadowedFlames posted:I got one of my co-workers to try this. Told her I’ll know when she’s near the end because I expect her to come in one day and utter those three magical words. I didn’t tell her which three words because spoilers, obviously. But it still brings a smile to my face when I see people post that. My friend bought the complete edition for me for Christmas and he's almost near the end. I'm waiting for the three words as well. It's amazing how near universal this sentiment is. I'll echo what many others have said here and elsewhere: Ted Faro is a wonderful villain who has been dead for almost a thousand years (maybe) and we never have any direct interaction with. That is some good writing. His reasoning for destroying APOLLO is entirely bullshit on premise alone. There is no use in getting rid of knowledge past kindergarten. The loss of all art and science is devastating, but to also get rid of the knowledge about GAIA and her subordinate functions was astounding. loving Ted was out of his league and did not know how all of the functions interacted with each other. So he fucks up APOLLO and without the new humans knowing their purpose, the whole endeavor is destabilized. He screwed over humanity twice. gently caress Ted Faro. The game as a whole is refreshing. Aloy was inspiring and hopeful and badass, of course. I beat the base game first before the DLC, so at one point, my favorite line from her is the Fist option after she defeats Helis. It was so great and dripping with anger and condescension. But then I played the Frozen Wilds and became chieftain. Ourea is trying to take charge, but Aloy steps in and lays it down. The way Ashley Burch says the line (I forget the actual words) was firm. Aloy don't take poo poo from nobody. I also thought Sylens was going to betray Aloy at some point because that's how entertainment has been going lately, so it was nice that he didn't. At the same time, he says he'll still do it all over again with just a few more safeguards which was also great. He's not learning the lesson we expect him to learn. His curiosity is unbridled and will go to any lengths to satisfy it. He's a great foil for Aloy's more compassionate personality. Hopefully, he remains smarter than loving Ted Faro. Another refreshing concept is that we have different philosophical flavors of AI in this game. We not only have the type that want to consume everything, we also have some that are just taking their instructions to the extreme, and a couple that like humans and want to help.
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Jan 7, 2018 21:00
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I'm curious where they will go with Aloy's character in the sequel. That constant chip on her shoulder really worked well in sharply defining her character arc against similar video game protagonists, but now that she knows exactly where she comes from and is a post-apocalyptic world celebrity, she's got to have some new inner conflict in need of resolution. Many direct sequels fail at this and just kind of endlessly spin their wheels recreating the same arc over and over. See Rise of the Tomb Raider, or the new season of Stranger Things, or pretty much every single character in the new Star Wars movie. One of the best storytelling aspects to Horizon was how it wove the personal quest for self-discovery with uncovering the mysteries of the past until they became one and the same at the story's climax. That's a hook that will be hard to recreate in the same novel way.
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Jan 7, 2018 22:49
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My guess is that in Horizon 2, the main focus of the quest will be to reassemble GAIA and along the way, Aloy makes peace with her role as a prominent world leader after having spent Horizon 1 being the outcast.
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Jan 8, 2018 19:12
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Aloy should be like Caine from Kung-Fu: wander the land, getting into adventures, fixing GAIA, calling out the lovely aspects of people and cultures. Maybe tie in the ancient themes with the modern day so people can draw from the fact that Ted Faro hosed everything up and people are making the same mistakes now as they did before humanity's extinction. The stuff with the dam in the DLC did this perfectly and I still think about that side mission quite a lot because of how good it was. The challenge for the writers going forward is to make the modern day stuff as interesting as the mystery of how machines came to be the dominant force in the world and why humanity are the way they are. I liked the modern day stuff but if you get impressions from that game, a lot of people found the mystery more compelling than the modern societies and story, which was just a thing in the background. Honestly, the most passionate I've seen anyone talk about the modern day stuff was accusing the game of appropriation for how the various tribes have a native/first nations aesthetics to them. That's just for the writing aspect. I could list off a ton of poo poo for the gameplay things I'd change but I'd save that for another day.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:14
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I'm fairly certain GAIA can't actually be rebuilt, that's the point. The world is what it is, and that's it. APOLLO is gone. GAIA is gone. HADES is with Sylens. HAEPHAESTUS has gone completely batshit. I think Aloy traveling to find and curb HAEPHAESTUS (since she thinks HADES is gone) will lead to her finding some Faro AI being worshipped as a god somewhere and getting sucked into solving that while trying to fix HAEPHAESTUS' core code. In the process she'll run into Sylens + HADES again which will be the hook for a third game if it doesn't happen in 2.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:20
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Fuzz posted:I'm fairly certain GAIA can't actually be rebuilt, that's the point. The world is what it is, and that's it. APOLLO is gone. GAIA is gone. HADES is with Sylens. HAEPHAESTUS has gone completely batshit. Maybe the discovery of CYAN (and some of the lore drops in the DLC) is an indication that the story is going to seek to push that AI into a more prominent role in future sequels. Granted all you did was fight the deranged Hephaestus off of CYAN and avoid the conversion of that facility into a big bad cauldron or whatever, but the talk about emotions and self-improvement in dialogue and in the lore drops seem to be an insinuation that CYAN had been made into a uniquely capable AI with the ability to improve on her own core programming. Maybe the point of digging her up was to say "GAIA might be a-sploded all over that mountain but we found someone who can at least help wrangle Hephaestus and maybe serve as a less dangerous outlet for Sylens' curiosity" and then have Aloy cart her around as a way of overriding the various rogue subroutines.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:45
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I still find it odd that the Banuk knew Sylens, the Blue Light was a known concept to him, as was that region since so many people knew who he was, and then despite all that Sylens never tried to access CYAN nor heard about it. CYAN would have been a pretty perfect outlet for him and would have ultimately possibly averted all that other poo poo happening.
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Jan 8, 2018 20:50
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Fuzz posted:I still find it odd that the Banuk knew Sylens, the Blue Light was a known concept to him, as was that region since so many people knew who he was, and then despite all that Sylens never tried to access CYAN nor heard about it. CYAN would have been a pretty perfect outlet for him and would have ultimately possibly averted all that other poo poo happening. All the Banuk shamans pray to the Blue Light. How was Sylens supposed to know this one particular shaman actually spoke with an AI? If all you are hearing is weird new machines are showing up and they are pissed, how would you know that it was daemonic machines made by HEPHESTUS rather than deranged machines sent by HADES? Plus CYAN has been comatose or under HEPHESTUS' control for the majority of her 'life.'
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Jan 8, 2018 21:07
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Fuzz posted:I still find it odd that the Banuk knew Sylens, the Blue Light was a known concept to him, as was that region since so many people knew who he was, and then despite all that Sylens never tried to access CYAN nor heard about it. CYAN would have been a pretty perfect outlet for him and would have ultimately possibly averted all that other poo poo happening. The Sister was the only one CYAN spoke to, and given her dislike of Sylens, I doubt she would have introduced them.
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Jan 8, 2018 22:39
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nvm
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Jan 18, 2018 13:06
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FAUXTON posted:Conditioning out socially undesirable aspects of people is what normal folks call kindergarten, or maybe potty training. It's also what normal folks call Orwellian.
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Jan 18, 2018 13:41
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's also what normal folks call Orwellian. Oh the dystopian horror of teaching kids to wipe their own asses and say please and thank you.
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Jan 18, 2018 14:20
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FAUXTON posted:Oh the dystopian horror of teaching kids to wipe their own asses and say please and thank you. "YOU'RE JUST A ROBOT, YOU DON'T EVEN POOP!" "Perhaps you would like to sing a song?"
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Jan 18, 2018 14:36
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Fuzz posted:"YOU'RE JUST A ROBOT, YOU DON'T EVEN POOP!" *drops kid with a tazer, kid shits pants* "Perhaps you would like to sing a song?"
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Jan 18, 2018 14:41
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A neat little detail I was puzzled by at the time but put 2 and 2 together towards the end were all the little dots over the people and other things in the Grave Hoard. When I finally got the Shield Weaver armor I noticed those same dots on Aloy in between shimmers. So, the Enduring Freedom soldiers were wearing shield Weaver, but it obviously didn't save them. Also, another detail I figured out was gently caress Ted Faro
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Feb 10, 2018 20:57
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It's funny replaying the game in NG+ with the shieldweaver armor when you're rolling up in a high-tech glowing suit the likes of which the world has never seen and dudes are still going "Nora savage..."
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Feb 10, 2018 21:39
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Well they don’t know that you have regenerating health. It just looks like you have weird glowy decorations ripped from some machine’s chassis.
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Feb 11, 2018 06:02
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I’m still amazed at how they make you despise a man you never meet or interact with and only see recordings of. gently caress Ted Faro
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Apr 11, 2018 12:29
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I hope we have to fight a clone army of Teds in the sequel so that we can get in multiple critical strikes to the dick.
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Apr 11, 2018 13:40
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exquisite tea posted:I hope we have to fight a clone army of Teds in the sequel so that we can get in multiple critical strikes to the dick. I wonder if you will meet Ted clones and hate them... but it turns out they have been educated with Apollo and and so they are really into "fixing" the world and so they are very helpful and do good things throughout the sequel. That might be the most infuriating (and interesting) thing they could do.
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Apr 11, 2018 17:55
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While the most obvious links to a sequel would be Faro, Sylens and the Far Zenith project, there's also something I hadn't considered until recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLiFO732V3Q Basically this guy theorizes that HADES didn't actually malfunction and go rogue, that it was just doing what it was always programmed to do, and it was GAIA that overreacted. We never really see what's going on in the world other than our own very tiny pocket of civilization, so perhaps HADES foresaw some larger catastrophic event about to happen and enacted the reverse-terraforming protocol without any outside influence. It would end up being a pretty big twist if our actions from the first game were actually in defiance of the ultimate continuance of life on earth.
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Apr 11, 2018 18:05
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exquisite tea posted:While the most obvious links to a sequel would be Faro, Sylens and the Far Zenith project, there's also something I hadn't considered until recently. I wonder if humans who were not Apollo-educated being introduced to the world is what HADES saw as an error? "Hmm, my specs say humans should have advanced technology right out of the gate, and these fuckers are struggling to make fire! Something must be wrong. Reboot time!" EDIT: haha, first comment on that vid is someone saying the same thing... and here I thought I was clever!
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Apr 11, 2018 18:18
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What if it was CYAN who did it? I don't remember anything from the dialogue that noted a particular time it came out of hibernation but maybe The Curious Little AI In The Caldera accidentally broke everything.
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Apr 11, 2018 19:33
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theCalamity posted:I’m still amazed at how they make you despise a man you never meet or interact with and only see recordings of. Yeah, Ted "gently caress Ted Faro" Faro is staying on top of my Best
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Apr 11, 2018 19:56
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As I recall CYAN was in sleep mode until Ourea stumbled across the Firebreak facility and awakened her prior to the Hephaestus unshackling and hijacking operations. CYAN is an interesting case because to our knowledge it's the oldest sentient thing on Earth, with a knowledge base and memory totally apart from GAIA and APOLLO. I could see her sticking around for Horizon 2 as a disembodied voice in Aloy's focus, or perhaps inhabiting the chassis of a cute robot companion c'mon Guerrilla make it happen!!
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Apr 11, 2018 20:02
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exquisite tea posted:While the most obvious links to a sequel would be Faro, Sylens and the Far Zenith project, there's also something I hadn't considered until recently. That sounds cool but I don’t really buy it. Didn’t they have a limited time to repopulate the earth, like a couple hundred years at most? Too long and the conditions would be so horrible, life wouldn’t be able to start up again. Hades shouldn’t be able to activate itself almost a thousand years after humans came out unless, as the video said, Texan dude wasn’t able to perfect Hades and didn’t put a time limit on it.
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Apr 11, 2018 21:28
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There was also a limited supply of embryos for the cradles, so wiping everything out at this point basically guarantees the extinction of mankind, even before Gaia self destructed.
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Apr 12, 2018 01:29
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