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The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Sign me up! I have plat.

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

I eagerly await playing this game in May, 2018.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

I can't wait until Trump isn't president and Ecco launches this game, in February 2025!

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Wow look at you people with fancy loving last names.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Oh hey ##vote Chic Trombone

It's been a while! How's it going?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Chic Trombone posted:

Hi TNL! I'm doing pretty well recently, been having some health stuff but I think I might be getting to the bottom of it??? Hopefully, anyways. How are you?

It's been a rough couple of months for me (my boss and mentor got murdered) but I'm hanging in there and focusing on job developments. And the last couple days I've been enjoying the Republicans collapse all over their efforts to repeal my ACA, definitely a spirit booster.

I'm both sorry to hear about your health stuff and glad to hear you're getting through it!! Looking forward to playing a good game of Mafia with you.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

My favorite ice cream flavor is ROLEBLOCKER.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

##unvote ##vote chores because he has a last name and that sounds like a rich guy thing, and in Ecco's games the rich guys are always the bad guys.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Nobody commented on my "last name" case? Maybe you all are bougie scum.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

Part of the reason I'm voting MMT is because of the way she defended her vote. MMT didn't try to convince me Stickup was scum not laugh it off (like a town would do), MMT instead defended the vote in an attempt to convince the town the vote came from a legitimate place

This feels like scum reaching to be honest. Is there really so much nuance to your fresh-out-the-gate D1 vote?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Wouldn't it have been even scummier if Murmur Twin pretended her first serious vote of the game was a slam dunk on scum?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

this is a stickup posted:

not really imo. look at it from this pov: if town thinks they've nailed someone, they'll probably push to the ends of the earth to close. scum would not, as (WIFOM) pushing too hard can draw attention to yourself. most throw stuff out there and see what sticks.

If you're all inning on a read you made 3 pages into a Mafia game you're doing it wrong.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

Yes? Is that really nuanced? I'm sure that if we had night actions and lynches and maybe a couple of pages worth of posting history I would have something more substantial and direct.

Uhhh I think what you have is a little TOO substantial for how early we are. I certainly couldn't begin to make a WIFOM case for what town you would be doing this early in the game.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

this is a stickup posted:

I agree but people do this. regardless mmt is far too smart to do that as scum OR town so the whole point is moot

No, the point isn't moot when YPM is making claims that Murmur Twin not doing that means she's not town.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

##unvote ##vote YPM

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

I think bullshit "substance" is an epidemic. Or did you forget that Mafia have to make up reasons for their fake suspicions?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Kashuno posted:

##unvote TNL how do you feel about stickup

I am getting new player vibes. I've never played with stickup though.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Eh. Then I have a null read. Can buy a townie may not have realized I was continuing a point directed at YPM.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

Your case on me is that my case on MMT is reaching. Sure, that's a reason not to agree with my case. But if I'm scum for building a case partly on WIFOM (which I will admit), how is MMT not scum for doing that same on her very first post.

Because MMT makes it clear her early day 1 suspicion is just that: an early suspicion that she's exploring. A post "pinged" her and was "good enough" for a vote. That's a fairly normal starting case.

Whereas your case almost by necessity needs to pretend Murmur Twin was making some hard committed read in order to make any amount of sense.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your premise is that MMT "forced" a vote. I know this because you took the time to emphasize the word "forced." But then you argue MMT didn't push this forced vote enough. Please understand these two notions contradict each other.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

Like do you actually think MMT believed what she wrote? There is no way you can. There are two options. One shes town manufacturing content to see how Stickup reacts. But she, as you said, made the case soft with no punch, and her only follow up was convincing people she believed her case.

So the only remaining option is she is scum

I believe MMT's gut was pinged and she dropped an early, low-investment vote on someone. I think this is obvious if you look at the vote post where she uses the word "ping" and says it's good enough for an early vote. That doesn't take much belief dude.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Asiina posted:

All of this hard casing feels so goddamn fake.

Nobody can possibly believe all of this as seriously as they're pretending to.

Try engaging people in conversation, you may discover there are things you like or dislike about the things they are saying.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

Great. You disagree with me like we are different people who see things differently. How does that make me scum? You've spent this time attacking my case instead of explaining why I'm scum.

Because I don't see how you read Murmur Twin's very obviously early low-investment vote as some big fake forced effort, and I also don't see how you could read Murmur Twin's vote and assume that a townie would feel comfortable fully committing to the stated case of "seems like stickup's PM was shorter than the town average."

It's an interpretation that diverges so far from my own that I'm still trying to figure out how you got there. And instead of considering the alternative hypothesis, that Murmur Twin simply dropped a low-investment vote based on a minor gut ping, you seem to be plugging your ears to that possibility. I understand you don't want to undercut your own case, but I think it's disturbing how committed you are to what I think was a reaching interpretation from the start.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

OK. I will state again. This is a day 1 case where I haven't even bothered unvoting CC.

Okay. Feel free to address anything I typed out in the two paragraph post you're quoting.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

I don't know what else to tell you dude. There isn't much more point to going back and forth. Like you call me scum for defending my case and then egg me on to do it more.

Her qualifying her belief in her case had no bearing on my assessment of it

Okay. Then I'll leave it at: I am not 100% convinced you are scum either, and what I was hoping to find in your defense was any sign that you were aware the "forced" vote you were looking at could simply be an early vote that MMT, as either alignment, took about ten seconds to conceive of and post. I haven't seen any sign of that, and you seem to be actively avoiding any attempt to entertain that notion. This makes me think you are pushing a case in bad faith, not to actually catch a scum player but simply look like you have a reasoned suspicion.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

I thought me saying that it's a day 1 case would imply that I know I could be wrong. Like I don't know why you are so desperate for me to explicitly say it. Of course I could. But there's no point for me to say it right off the bat because I could be wrong with a cop result too

You don't have a cop result though. You have a reaching notion about a "forced" vote that frankly I think Murmur Twin put about ten seconds of effort and thought into making, and your evidence that Murmur Twin's suspicion was false is that she didn't strongly push a case based on a minor comment about PM length. Which is a case that directly gets disarmed by "day 1 early vote," moreso than my case on you is.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

Ok. I think you are town. I don't think anyone is getting anything out of this exchange. I think you think I value my case much higher than I actually do. I am going to disengage for a little while and then come back with fresh eyes, because obviously I'm coming off as very belligerent or something.

Nah, for my part I tend to come off as belligerent in these games too as I tend to rather intensely push my points when I have something. I'm also happy looking elsewhere, you're my strongest suspicion right now but it's also been about three hours since I started playing this game.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

CCKeane posted:

Who's a good read? I'm a bit distracted.

Like, this post coming at the top of page 7 is discouraging. I really miss the old CCKeane back when he had the unicorn avatar and was a high frequency jokey poster, instead of current Keane that sorta mopes and drags his way through games even when he's town.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Rarity posted:

Not much. If you put as much time into explaining your case as you do in showing us how DEEP IN THOUGHT you are I might think you were towny.

##vote Kash

I think this is a bad vote with almost nonexistent reasoning. Kash does explain his PMom vote and Rarity dismisses it as posturing, without engaging with Kash's content.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Okay. I'm just bringing it up early because the last few times we've played together you kinda phoned it in.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

So I think what happened was my ego got in the way yesterday, and I apologize. The main reason I made the case on MMT in the first place was because I saw that there was 1 day, 6 hours left until deadline and the game was going nowhere, so I made a case on a minor feeling I had and pushed it. People saw right through it, rightfully called my case false, and it frustrated me, both because my attempt at getting us out of joke phase failed and because the vets here don't hold me in high enough esteem to assume I was just trying to engage people. So I dug in, forgot why I made the case in the first place, and was just trying to get people to validate my case. Ironically enough, that was my whole case against MMT. It's stupid and petty but whatever, I was having one of those days. I still don't like MMT's initial post, but it was minor as TNL said and I think her follow up was good.

Looking back, I think there are a couple of things that bothered me out of that exchange. Some of Stickup's comments were out of place, like the assumption that I was sticking up for him instead out casing MMT and it seemed like alot of me-tooing. I don't know if that is scummy or not, I just picked up on it.

I don't know what Asiina is doing. I'm assuming it is some sort of PR.

My biggest scum read is CC. He strolls in, asks what is happening, and then completely ignores the biggest case going (which I would estimate would be me, but that may be an egocentric view of what was happening) to give a couple of shrugs and non-reads. But if you look at his evaluation of MMT, he does take a couple of indirect shots at me, implying that I may be scum (but may also be town who knows lol). So I'm comfortable with my vote on him for now.

The silent people also need to speak and use their words.

Well I feel a little bad for saying this now but this post makes me think you are scummier. And maybe the reason I feel bad is because you're using this post to fish for sympathy.

Straight up as a "veteran player" I'm going to assume anyone making and pushing a case is pushing it in earnest. So it changes our whole interaction yesterday if in retrospect you were just bullshitting or testing an argument or whatever. Either way I didn't think it was bad enough to apologize for.

I also think it's scummy that you're top suspicion happens to be the person you were already voting. That's a little too convenient for my tastes.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

With that said I'd be fairly reluctant to vote out YPM if it means letting one of the several nonexistent players go free today... Where's Chic Trombone been?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Seriously at the moment it feels like maybe seven people are playing this Mafia game.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Your Personal Muse posted:

I don't have a scum read on chores or anything because he has talked about tofu and loving my mother, but Rarity makes it sound like he has actually offer substance other than saying Kash should die.

I don't like this either. He's active and posting, has dropped a few town calls but nothing I would call substantial either.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

So yeah I don't know how Rarity is getting some great town read from that.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Ugh we're probably voting out a lurker today huh.

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Is Retro Futurist a name change of someone?

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

That's sorta what I remembered. Where's he been all game???

The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

Max posted:

Chores famously nailed scum based on a flavor name once so now he always does it.

It was me he nailed, too.

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The Ninth Layer
Jun 20, 2007

I would consider voting stickup today. The posts I have seen were not great.

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