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I don't think the Internet has ever been a healthy place, but right now it's become a compounding hellscape of bad karma. Before I shut myself away from social media and put myself to better purpose, I want to make one last attempt to put everyone's thoughts towards better purpose. I'm going to clarify a few points, make a few statements of what I'd consider truth, and then I'll away to Fiddler's Green. The American people hate Nazis: There's been a lot of talk, particularly by foreign observers and others, that "hate is on the rise" and that a lot of people are "Nazi sympathizers". Overwhelmingly this appears not to be the case. I see basically endless streams of people condemning white supremacy, even calling for violence or retribution against it. There's a lot of anger and at the root of it is a fundamental rejection of racially-charged and fascistic ideology. Even here on this site I have not heard one person actually saying that the ideals being espoused by the wannabe-Nazis were good or valid. Please keep this in mind. The Constitution is good: The idea that anyone can peaceably assemble for any cause, be it popular, loving or hateful is the cornerstone of a free society. While many people now are very determined to establish what is right and wrong, and many more feel compelled to punish people for voicing their rights, the law of the land fundamentally protects them in doing so. You may not like it if somebody marches with a Confederate flag or preaches about white genocide -- most don't. But many don't like it when somebody burns the American flag in protest. Many dislike police being disrespected publicly. Many don't think anarchists or communists have any place in our society. All of this is protected by the Constitution. I've seen a lot of rhetoric, both recently and over the past few years, that's given me cause for concern that many people want to limit what the Constitution allows to satisfy personal or social agendas. I maintain that whatever we do, we must keep in mind that the Constitution is a really, really good document. It lays out a framework for a free society few others can touch. If you advocate for solutions as to where we must go from here, please don't forget this. Do not advocate for a cure that is worse than the disease. Trump isn't the biggest problem: I know it's really, really easy to want to blame all of this on Trump. I'll go so far as to say, yes, white supremacists feel emboldened under Trump. He has quite sadly inspired some very bad people to feel welcome to march in the streets. Yet he is the legally elected President, and the people who voted for him are not uniformly racist nor hatemongers. Good people believed -- and still believe -- that he was the best choice for them. He's made numerous decisions that have benefited a number of rural and mining communities. He's not politically correct, nor will he ever be. He may last two terms or he may last only one. But if you think that him being removed from office by any means but by failure to win re-election will solve any of this, you will be sorely disappointed. You may hate the guy with some deep degree of conviction, but you should seek to understand why people voted for him. You should talk with them, come to know them. Even if you don't agree, a Democracy requires multiple viewpoints to co-exist harmoniously. If you are truly mad about him being where he's at, the blame lies far less with your fellow citizens and far moreso... The mass media shares a lot of blame: Trump won because CNN wouldn't shut the gently caress up about him. He won because when he said something outrageous, the media used hyperbole to report about it. Irresponsible journalism resulted in his supporters being able to easily write off a majority of news outlets as "fake news" and frankly, it's plainly obvious why that is. Even if you disagree with him wholeheartedly, if you actually lived in the U.S. and you compared the full body of his speeches compared to the soundbites that news outlets picked out, you'd see precisely where this comes from. The media continues to use hyperbole to report on just about everything involving Trump. They seek at every possible turn to discredit him, and they do so using fairly ethically-void ways. The media will not bring this man down if they continue at their present rate, they will only prop him further up. Turn away from your televisions or your Facebook trending stream -- seek raw data, undistilled sources. Subscribe to your local newspaper and question narratives, especially if you feel inclined to immediately agree with them. You are being actively manipulated, and if you do not demand more of your news, you're going to be left with nothing but propaganda. The greatest blame for Virginia lies with the police: Two groups of protesters met and engaged in violence, with no police in sight. This is the failure of Charlottesville. The police knew a white supremacist march was coming to town, and it was their responsibility to seperate it from anyone else to avoid exactly what happened to happen. The police are responsible for upholding the Constitution, not to pick sides -- they succeeded here. The police are equally responsible for keeping order, and this is where they failed. The excuses they have made following the event are unacceptable. This tragedy could have been averted or diminished greatly if the police had done their jobs, and this is an objective truth. Seperated from ideology, the blame lies not with both sides (though of course, it'd have been nice if the Neo-Nazis hadn't come armed) but with a simple failure from law enforcement. I will say only that it seems very alarming that most every contentious political rally right now results in violence. This violence has been perpetrated by differing sources in differing demonstrations, and this is where ANTIFA has gained its bad reputation. Again, refer to the second point -- if we cannot express ourselves in a peaceful manner, then our democracy is already rushing towards doom. Everyone is human: Stop seeing your ideological opposites as monsters. Stop demonizing the right, stop villifying the left. Start asking for common purpose and common ground. Liberals, demand more of your corrupt politicians. Morons like Maxine Waters are embarrassing their party; Nancy Pelosi is a toxic toad who should no longer be in the leadership. Please stop leaning on identity politics -- reducing everybody, even yourselves, to labels and descriptors is so bafflingly backwards that it beggars belief as to why this has been embraced by so many. Human beings are more complicated than this. Conservatives, you also need to demand more of your corrupt politicians. The GOP has become equally fixated on stupid social issues, like abortion debates or trying to outlaw gay marriage. Leadership like Mitch McConnell have failed to keep their party in line -- extremists like Ted Cruz have shut down the government in failed attempts to force their doctrines through. When it takes a weird outsider billionaire to come in and actually push for the de-regulation reforms that your party has talked about and failed to enact for so long, then you appear as a toothless dog. You need a better platform. You need it now. For everyone else, this is your country. You will decide what sort of country it becomes -- whether we shrink the Constitution to start outlawing speech, or whether we forcibly impeach the President of the United States due to the actions of a few emboldened reactionaries; a people gets the government it deserves. What you put out into the world is what you get back from it. The people you hate and the people you love are the same: human beings. If you find hate to be evil, then why do you respond to it in kind? All good and bad things have come as a result of the actions of flawed human beings. The Internet has reduced everyone to a sort of sliver of their actual being; many of you should be well aware that there's more to mankind than tweets and soundbites. The map is not the territory. The map is not the territory. Find common purpose. Seek unifying answers. Bring change through cooperation, not conflict. All of these things, I say, in the hopes that we stop drawing lines in the sand, stop butting heads. It is my hope that as we tear down reminders of the last civil war, we do not do so marching headlong into another. In the end, I believe in the American Dream -- a dream that one people might, through blood and sweat and tears, make the greatest nation on earth, dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. A land where an individual has more rights than anywhere else; where freedom is worth dying for. Don't build more cages--make more keys.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:33
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1. don't sign you are posts 2. posting this here isn't going to end how you like 3. bash the fash 4. lists are dumb 5. One of the dragons gets killed by a white walker throwing a spear
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Aug 17, 2017 14:35
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I don't think the Internet has ever been a healthy place, but right now it's become a compounding hellscape of bad karma. Before I shut myself away from social media and put myself to better purpose, I want to make one last attempt to put everyone's thoughts towards better purpose. I'm going to clarify a few points, make a few statements of what I'd consider truth, and then I'll away to Fiddler's Green. Those are definitely some words!
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Aug 17, 2017 14:36
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Eat poo poo
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Aug 17, 2017 14:38
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Arri posted:1. don't sign you are posts People are going to be more upset at that spoiler than they were about Charlottesville
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Aug 17, 2017 14:38
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friendo posted:People are going to be more upset at that spoiler than they were about Charlottesville
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Aug 17, 2017 14:39
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FactsAreUseless posted:Yeah, they hate spear-chuckers. 
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Aug 17, 2017 14:40
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nice meltdown
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Aug 17, 2017 14:40
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gently caress you, OP. You're not clever, you're not original, literally every other young idiot who thinks he knows everything about the world has tried to do this "Let me solve all the world's problems, so simple!" thing. There's a reason we make fun of cokeheads for saying poo poo like that. Seriously, stop wasting your time with posts that will convince literally no one other than the fellow MAGA chuds who want you to keep going because they think you "trigger the libs" so hard, but you don't, you're just an idiot and you're making yourself look more like an idiot with every post.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:43
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Does this mean you are leaving us now? Good. And take your stupid ideas with you.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:44
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purple death ray posted:Eat poo poo
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Aug 17, 2017 14:44
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FactsAreUseless posted:Yeah, they hate spear-chuckers. MODS!?
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Aug 17, 2017 14:45
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This was exceptionally well put. Everyone is on their "infinite jest" game, but I like what you have to say. To the people so angry someone dared discuss what they think is going in a forum made for discussion, he's saying similar things and presenting ideas that you know, countless brilliant people have said. It's ok for people to discuss situations like this. I don't think the OP presented this with a "i know everything" attitude. He presented the world as he/she sees it. Such a thing really isn't so awful. You can simply avert your eyes or point out what you think is so naive or off. Often times, starting these kinds of discussions is a means by which people cope. What a grievous evil OP has visited upon all of us :eye roll:
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Aug 17, 2017 14:46
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I too believe that nazis and the people who oppose them are equally bad.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:46
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I can't believe the violent alt left killed all those peaceful nazis in the 40s they might not have been popular but they were legally elected and decorum is the most important thing to me, a useless equivocating diaper baby The constitution is sacred and protects the rights of people to advocate for the death of their fellow humans with no consequences please don't vilify the kkk unless you also condemn the people who don't want to die as equally bad
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Aug 17, 2017 14:46
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Your Posts Total poo poo Disorder has really been acting up lately, OP
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Aug 17, 2017 14:47
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lol if you think you can tell americans to just stop being stupid
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Aug 17, 2017 14:50
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Robot Robling posted:
Youre thinking of Debate and Discussion, this is GBS.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:50
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Oh good another coherent and worthwhile thread in gbs
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Aug 17, 2017 14:51
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Here's a bunch of ge-nazis and the people who oppose them are equally bad-neric platitudes.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:51
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a new study bible! posted:I too believe that nazis and the people who oppose them are equally bad. A few things: The people you are calling Nazis are not actually related to the Nazi's who did such evil things. They are different groups. You can both not like them and recognize the failure in lumping them in; it's simply not reality. further, you can point out that the counter protesters should have known that all presenting such opposition to a rally that had permits would do is 1. cement the position of the people at the rally and 2 cause problems. There was no value to be gained by giving them attention and causing confrontation. You can both respect that these weirdo white nationalists have the right to think as they, have the right to act as they did in regards to having a rally and that most importantly, the counter protest could never have been seen by a reasonable person to be able to change anyone's mind. It was a bad idea and would have been a failure and negative thing even if this violence didn't break out. The only thing it could accomplish is to further cement these white nationalist weirdo's idea that they have a tangible enemy, for which they must be united against. There are so many ways in which people either willingly or as a badge of membership of a particular group eschew reality and instead choose the conflation of concepts and the sensationalizing of already sensational concepts to a strata they do not belong in. These are, quite literally, not the people in Germany who killed jewish people.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:52
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Robot Robling posted:
President Trump is not a brilliant person. At all in fact. hth
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Aug 17, 2017 14:53
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Who What Now posted:Youre thinking of Debate and Discussion, this is GBS. Of course, that makes all the sense in the world. People come here to be belligerent and masturbate. (my dick is rock hard right now, jsyk)
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Aug 17, 2017 14:53
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Maybe don't vote for retards.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:53
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deported to Canada posted:President Trump is not a brilliant person. At all in fact. As a bleeding heart, far left socialist waiting for technology to free humanity, I agree wholeheartedly. That has nothing to do with the concept of the counter protest being an action with zero good outcomes. Like every other protest that doesn't threaten someone directly and have a plan of action if the demands of the protest aren't met, it's a social pressure release valve.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:54
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Robot Robling posted:A few things: The people you are calling Nazis are not actually related to the Nazi's who did such evil things. They are different groups. purple death ray posted:Eat poo poo
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Aug 17, 2017 14:56
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I mean they are waving torches, doing nazi salutes, and yelling about the Jews but they aren't the exact same human beings who attempted and nearly achieved the ethnic cleansing of a continent 80 years ago, so they aren't technically nazis This is an important distinction because
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Aug 17, 2017 14:56
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Robot Robling posted:As a bleeding heart, far left socialist waiting for technology to free humanity, I agree wholeheartedly. "Opposing white nationalism is wrong."-Robot Robling
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Aug 17, 2017 14:57
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I was with the op until he suggested Americans should stop hating each other.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:57
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Feminasty Slut posted:Maybe don't vote for retards. Yeah the majority of Americans really hosed up badly and voted for a total piece of poo poo. Utterly disgraceful.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:58
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Robot Robling posted:These are, quite literally, not the people in Germany who killed jewish people. gently caress off, you Nazi apologist. They are the people who killed a woman and injured 19 people, after marching with Swastikas and chanting blood and soil. They're Nazis. gently caress Nazis. And gently caress you for trying to downplay the threat they represent.
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Aug 17, 2017 14:59
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It is funny to see Americans shocked by violence which they promote in their culture from novels, movies and games. Both of your parties are the same corporate fascist scum that floats between private and state sectors creating warm XO jobs for their inbred country club buddies. It has nothing to do with party membership, rascism, genders or w/e. System is setup to divide the proletariat and enable the rule of anarcho-capitalist elites crawing for deregulation and yummy tasty state subsides. People live in golden cages and won't change unless you take away their comfort and that won't happen with those fuckers in charge.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:04
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Wow OP you really opened my mind but then I remembered a lot of your previous posts and in that context you just sound like a condescending shitlord so suck my balls if you please.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:06
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"On many sides" - 8-Bit Scholar
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Aug 17, 2017 15:08
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"Everyone except the Nazis are to blame for the Nazi terrorist attack is Charlottesville, especially the counter-protestors." -What 8BS actually believes IRL
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Aug 17, 2017 15:10
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Aug 17, 2017 15:12
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WampaLord posted:They're Nazis. gently caress Nazis.  Our own Nazis are trying to hide their poo poo behind patriotism too. These fuckers need to go, there is no nice way around it.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:13
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The thing that breaks my brain is that post WW2 we had a number of "Nazis" at the Nuremberg trails and subsequent courts claim in their defence that they did not know about the final solution or that they did not participate. They fell over themselves to say that they weren't involved or that they were only following orders. So what will be these fuckers excuse? They can't claim ignorance on this issue. They can't say "oh I had to join the Nazi party to get a job in Trumps governme.....or wait do they? I may have to check my sources and get back to you.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:14
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Feminasty Slut posted:Maybe don't vote for retards. well yeah but that just ends up with you not voting
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Aug 17, 2017 15:15
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WampaLord posted:gently caress off, you Nazi apologist. A real holocaust right there.
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Aug 17, 2017 15:17
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