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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

CCKeane posted:

How can you have a wandering samurai game without a legendary mercenary? I'm in.

Are woodland wizards welcome?

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Monathin posted:

##vote Murmur Twin

MMT knows what they did.

I'll explain myself in our masonry :ohdear:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Monathin posted:

I can't get back at Sal because he's not in this game so instead #JusticeForSal

---

You should go read F/SN Mafia when you get the chance, TMM, it's a wild ride.

F/SN was like Stanley Milgram Mafia for me :eng99:

Years from now when Sal is the best Mafia player in the scene you can all thank me for it.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EccoRaven posted:

the next player who references a mafia game that ran during my retirement will get the vote.

Oh I did something like that in Fake Reference Mafia which ran a year ago.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EccoRaven posted:

who knew a dealer would be such a card.

##vote mmt

I'm a perfect 10 :j:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tolly Totes posted:

This is kind of a gut thing but I have a bad feeling about moatillata

Same!

I don't really have any opinions about him in-game yet though.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

Hmmmm....

I've got a gut feeling that we should ##vote MMT

TMM is scum who is being mean to me because he thinks I'll think that he's town for it. ##vote TMM

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
:argh:

Scumteam is everyone voting for me. ##vote Chores

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

Mmt do you really think the whole scum team is voting you?

I've literally never been more serious about anything in my life.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

Mmt do you really think the whole scum team is voting you?

---

Also I was kind if hoping for more :words: from you mmt

(a) It's day one.
(b) It's Valentine's Day and I've been doing stuff.
(c) How can you actually possibly think I was being serious when I said that? Of course I don't really think the scumteam are the first four people to vote for me.

##vote Moat - I don't think this is a real case, I think it's him trying to sound town.

Also am I really at -4? That's super rude.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

It's not even a case?

It's not like there's a huge case history to search through and analyze? Yeah I know I like to tunnel, but that impulse doesn't usually kick in until the game has properly started.

Like did you actually think I thought the scumteam was comprised of the people voting for me? I figured it was you trying to carry us out of jokephase.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

Why are you so defensive if you were just joking anyway?

You asked me a question and I answered it - how would you expect it to look different if I wasn't being defensive?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

If it was a joke response:

I expected you to say as such and who gives a gently caress

I did, that's what this was:

Murmur Twin posted:

I've literally never been more serious about anything in my life.

Moatillata posted:

So now you think I am scum?

I thought that your overreaction to innocuous nonsense (the original "scum detected" post) and trying to spin it like it's me being caught in a trap was worth my first vote on D1, yes.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Sorry folks, I slept in this morning because I'm going out later tonight.

Moatillata posted:

Your recollection is completely skewed imo

Xad's recollection seemed right on the nose to me.

Moat: when I said "I've literally never been more serious about anything in my life", did you think I was being serious?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

EccoRaven posted:

I'm fine with my vote on mmt. I think mmt is a vote that can happen, so I'm not particularly motivated to change it. I think her reaction to Moat's posts were a little ridiculous and I've gotten a weird vibe from her early-day posts.

---

steadfastly refusing to vote for mmt after making an objectively weird post is weird. "I prefer other cases," sure, I guess, but.

Can you define "objectively weird" as it relates to the post in question?

##vote Ecco - at least I can believe that Moat was questioning me in good faith. Ecco just hopped on the case without really adding anything to it / going into detail why she thinks it.

EccoRaven posted:

people are pushing for moat, and also this is a really bad reason not to vote for someone who is scummy.

Strong disagree. I think the relative ease by which people jumped on the vote on me is plenty suspicious, and I'm always wary when I see someone getting pushed with hardly any pushback.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Dick Bastardly posted:

Heading to work. Will make my best effort to read through the day, but will probably participate more this afternoon (est timezone).

Ecco seems calm about his/her reactions. Not sure how that fits in with ecco's usual play.

Moat reads aggressive, but also quite defensive. I feel like scum moat would be a bit more jokey and relaxed to start off... still not sure what to make of moat yet.

MMT started off relaxed and jokey, and doesn't seem overly defensive (as moat seems to be).

If I were to force myself to make alignment calls, based mainly on gut, I'd say MMT is the most suss of the bunch. I think MMT would be more analytical and straight forward as town (even this early in the game)

----

Madman, what's your take on merk so far? While we're at it, what your take on chores as well?

---

If anything, the votes before lup's are bad. Lup actually gives "reasoning" behind it.

DB is another person I'd vote for - he's posted enough to give the impression of being here but hasn't really made any alignment calls other than me-too'ing the case on me.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

LupusAter posted:

I wrote my train of thought at the moment, and since I don't like presenting things I aren't sure about as gospel truth, I made my doubts clear. I get scummy vibes from MMT, but that's mostly because I feel that town would be more cautious in accusing D1 on the basis of reacting to a joke. I also think you're latching to the first thing that could sound like a case and hoping it'll start a train, but that might be the OMGUS talking.

Why would town be cautious in accusing anyone of being scum d1? :crossarms:

Like yeah, I'll be the first to admit that my vote on Moat was more to gauge reactions than out of a certainty that he's scum - but what's scummy about that?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

Yup, I thought it was bold and I liked it, hence the posterity post with the screenshot. I thought it would be bad rear end if you were even partially right.

Nothing in that post suggested joke to me.

Hahaha I'm laughing because it didn't actually dawn on me that you might take me seriously when I said that.

CCKeane posted:

To be fair, MMT, you're a very serious person.

This is literally the most factually accurate description of me ever.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

I think the relative ease by which people jumped on the vote on me is plenty suspicious, and I'm always wary when I see someone getting pushed with hardly any pushback.

Building on this, Asphyxious and DB are both bothering me for not only not really making any cases or reads, but also not really being called out as lurkers either (as opposed to, say, myself / RF / PMom / chores). I'm always suspicious when people seem to be posting just enough to go unnoticed.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I'm about to be driving for most of the rest of the game day but I'll be checking the game via phone.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
I am checking in from a gas station - can I pitch DB as someone who I think, on sheer law of averages (lurking / not being cased) is likely scum.

Failing that I still feel good about Ecco, her push on me is based on nothing.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

TMMadman posted:

##vote Monathin

This made me :thunk: so I reread Monathin.

Monathin posted:

I'm also not feeling MMT right now. I don't feel good about Ecco because I really don't have any sort of read on their play which is making me hesitant to contribute to that case.

---

I'm actually not liking Keane's content but I'm still feeling how hard I got burned after Shine, but this is different from his Shine game and closer to Christmas and what little I saw (haha, whoops) of TWEWY Mafia. Kean's throwing out reads to appear re-engaged but not really going hard after people.

That's where my read stands, anyway. If anyone with a little more Keane-meta wants to read that for me please do.

---


If I must make a call between the top three I would like to ##vote merk because I feel as if his pushiness on Lupus is really weird when Lupus' answer seemed perfectly satisfactory. I feel like he's trying to fish for a weird contradiction in Lupus' behavior when there isn't one.

---

I actually have to eat crow here and change my own vote to ##vote Ecco - after seeing the actual case put out with much less of a focus on Ecco's ~~meta~~ it does seem a little weirder than I'd expect, and something about the 'x and y are scum later losers i won't be here for deadline' sticks in my craw the more I read it.

Some questions for Mona:

(a) what about me in D1 made you think I was town?
(b) when you first read Ecco, why were you even looking at her from a meta perspective instead of just a "does her play seem scummy" perspective?
(c) what about Keane this game seems different from Shine? he seems really similar this game to me.
(d) when you voted Merk, was that before you read/understood the case on Ecco?

##vote Monathin - none of the opinions he presents on D1 seem to have any conviction behind them. Why wasn't I considered as scum? Why didn't he vote for Keane when he cased him? Why did he have suspicion on Merk but then just conveniently drop it to vote for Ecco?

To me he reads more like someone trying to explain fake reads than someone trying to figure out peoples' alignments.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tolly Totes posted:

Why ask four questions and then vote?

Why wouldn't I? I don't mean that like snarkily - unless we're at endgme or there's a risk of an early hammer, voting for people you find suspicious is a good thing.

I'm voting for Mona because I think he's scum, and I'm asking him the questions to help get a sense on if I'm right or not. If it turns out I'm wrong, I'll just unvote.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

Aaaand monathin is the next set up mislynch

Do you agree or disagree with the points I'm making?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

(c) what about Keane this game seemed different from Shine? he seemed really similar this game to me.

mafia edit :350:

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

I think you are scum and your points are manufactured

I quoted everything that I find suspicious of Monathin - are you saying I'm wrong? What's your opinion of him just for the record?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tolly Totes posted:

Questions are to help you get information, I'd think votes are for when you have the answers. Asking four questions and then voting makes it seem like you don't care for what the response would be. That's just my perspective.

That's fine, but your perspective is wrong. A vote is just a vote, you don't need to be 100% sure of a read when you make it (again, unless near the end of the game / hammering someone.

Moatillata posted:

See, even tolly sees it

Tolly is new but you've been playing with me for years - how can you possibly say it's unusually for me to vote for someone and ask them questions in the same post?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tolly Totes posted:

Questions are to help you get information, I'd think votes are for when you have the answers. Asking four questions and then voting makes it seem like you don't care for what the response would be. That's just my perspective.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

Asking a bunch of questions and then tossing a vote in the same post, like you say, means she doesn't care about the answers. She's not trying to figure out his alignment, rather she knows she wants to push him and so hopes a bunch of open questions will bog him down enough for him to slip up.

"She's not trying to figure out his alignment, she's just asking her top scumread a bunch of questions to see how he answers them".

##vote Tobbs - this is such a blatant pile-on to a bad case (basically perfectly mimicking Tolly's opinion) that it's pretty tough to ignore. How the hell are the questions I asked Mona "a bunch of open questions that will bog him down"? I'm literally point out scummy behavior and challenging him to defend it!

The whole narrative that "it's scummy to vote at the beginning of a case" is barely ok with a newer player but for Tobbs/Moat to go along with that logic outright suspicious to me.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

(a) nothing about my D1 should have made him sure i'm town.
(b) Mona dismisses the case on Ecco as "I don't know her meta" despite it never being about meta in the first place.
(c) Mona's read on Keane is factually wrong
(d) when Mona was asked to big from one of me/Merk/ecco, he said "Merk" first, and then later switched to Ecco after reading the case on her. It's scummy that he didn't read it first.

Oh look here's the same case, except with no questions.

TMM / Moat - if I had posted this and voted Mona at the end of it, would you read on me be any different than it is now? Why or why not?

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.
Also I'm passing out for awhile but it's kind of annoying the hell out of me that no one has actually acknowledged / denied the case I made on Mona.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

So him thinking you were town D1 was scummy? Is that a scumslip?

Yes, him acting like he knows my alignment is scummy! I can't believe I even need to explain that.

quote:

Why are you asking about Keane, a flipped town player? Also asking for an answer in the context of Shine is a bit ridiculous.

Because his content on Keane was about "he's acting way different than in Shine". It's not like I pulled that out of nowhere.

quote:

Presumably Mona thought merk was scum pushing Ecco based on a meta/gut read, but his opinion evolved.

Except that he clearly wasn't, and Mona's position was that he had already read Merk (hence the vote) and Ecco (hence the dismissal of it as a meta case).

quote:

None of this is scummy, it's just a bunch of random noise in the guise of engagement/a case. And I'm hardly piling on, being the second vote on you. If you're town, why no comment on chores' unobtrusive third vote? It's because when people have a reason to vote you, they give you something you can break down. You don't believe I'm scum, you're just trying to discredit me.

All of it is scummy, and when I say you're piling on it's because you literally voted me for a case someone else made and then tried to rephrase it using different words.

Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Moatillata posted:

If it was a joke response:

I expected you to say as such and who gives a gently caress

If it was a serious response:

I expected you to give some insight


I thought it was the latter and I was expecting something. Instead you came out with this


Which was niether and completely surprised me

So now you think I am scum?

##vote Moat

At this point I'm over it. He parked his vote on me since jokephase and hasn't said anything else since. If people want to buy into someone repeating "vote MMT" over and over again you deserve what you get.

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Murmur Twin
Feb 11, 2003

An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Tobbs Gnawed posted:

I wake up and everyone's voting MMT.

Hallelujah! Any uncertainty I had is gone with her barely trying to defend herself. MMT gets mad when she's up for a mislynch, and this MMT isn't mad. Like, weakly pushing back at Moat isn't something town MMT would do. She'd try to convince him she was town before immediately calling him scum.

:sadpeanut:

TMMadman posted:

I'll give it a couple more hours, but then I'll probably hammer MMT if I don't hear any real objections.

##vote MMT

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