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NikkolasKing posted:I like everyone in the gang but I think its sheer size hurts it. Sure, if you go camp convo hunting, everyone has some depth, but there's no guarantee you will see a great convo from even your favorite character. I love Kieran but I never got his campfire talk about his backstory until my second run. In terms of story missions, most of them have zero or near zero presence. Yeah this too, all the extra camp mechanics feel incredibly underbaked, even completely pointless considering what happens to the gang. I never felt any compulsion to upgrade the stuff for the camp and it feels like a real wasted opportunity, or something they had grander plans for and had to drastically scale back and so you just end up with the vestigial components that don't really impact the rest of the game.
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Feb 21, 2024 06:41
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It's just open world cruft. It's presumably cheaper to make a checklist for the player to fill in and get a reward than making a bunch of motion acted cutscenes and dialogue, and it fills out the world and makes the game longer to complete.
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Feb 21, 2024 08:05
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I wanna talk a bit more about Arthur. I addressed that one misconception about how the TB is what changed him. Anoeher one I've seen is accusing him of being some unthinking stooge until the last chapter or so. Arthur is questioning Dutch since at least the mission where they go after Colm in Chapter 1, basically the start of the game. He never lets up, either. He might be loyal, but he isn't some blind sycophant. I bring this up because Arthur can have this talk with Mary-Beth as early as Chapter 2. It's always stuck with me , ever since my first run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nXPezF3DC4&t=11s Even here he has a prety defeatist attitude. "Our time is passed" indeed. And then in possibly my favorite camp talk between him and Dutch, he responds to being asked about dying "I guess I plan on leaving with a hole shot in me." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh_QaL9F8bc Basically, telling Dutch straight up that he does not expect any pleasant end for himself. So why does he stick around? Why is he so loyal? I remembered then that he has a third conversation along the same lines. I forgot one part of that conversation, though, and I think it aptly answers the question. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-dWt6-_92c&t=78s Arthur: New century's coming. This life, this way? Well, I reckon we're the last. And we ain't long for it. John: Then that's the way it goes, I guess. Arthur: For me, yes. That rushed "for me" says it all. He can't see himself doing anything else, doesn't believe he deserves anything else, but the gang as a whole, his family, he will gladly do anything for them. He thinks Dutch will lead them to the promised land, even if it's over his own bloody corpse.
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Feb 21, 2024 11:58
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Arthur is also very keen for John, especially, to go off and be a family.
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Feb 21, 2024 12:05
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Philippe posted:Arthur is also very keen for John, especially, to go off and be a family. Well that's the final chapter. That's something else I noticed in my last run. Everybody remembers the ending, of course, but I feel like Arthur treats John with either indignance or indifference for much of the game. Despite their long history together, they are not particularly friendly to each other, and this is for a whole host of reasons. The role of Arthur's little brother, the younger gang member Arthur clearly has the most affection for, is Lenny. That seems beyond dispute to me now. John is only treated as something special to Arthur in that last chapter. Arthur is nicer to john by Chapter 4 but even then one of my favorite campfire talks with John has Arthur telling him he can't give up on the gang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQJ3nQGXrM0
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Feb 21, 2024 12:21
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ploots posted:Wow, I didn’t know it was even possible to be this wrong. All I remember from the beginning is wanting to be rootin' and tootin' and instead I was tapping A on a horse in cinematic mode listening to a bunch of people talk, with brief periods of action. I don't want to go fishing with Jack, I want to shoot bandits! Once I got to know the characters and learned how much fun it was to just explore the weird world, it became a much better game.
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Feb 21, 2024 20:54
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I'm playing this game for the first time and I don't want to progress beyond Chapter 2. I'd rather abandon the gang and explore the world. Which Valentine quests in Chapter 2 can I complete, and which quests should I ignore forever?
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Feb 21, 2024 22:15
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Corsec posted:I'm playing this game for the first time and I don't want to progress beyond Chapter 2. I'd rather abandon the gang and explore the world. Which Valentine quests in Chapter 2 can I complete, and which quests should I ignore forever? Chapter 2 ends with "The Sheep and the Goats." It's a mission for John who will be hanging out in Valentine. Don't do that mission and you should be fine. Chapter 3 is my favorite, though, the one I wanted to stay in forever, especially on a replay. As for Valentine quests, be on the lookout for a woman at night asking for help. Just one of my favorite little non-mission quests/activities/whatever.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:39
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I was looking at bolmin70's mods on Nexus but it seemed like a red flag that they closed the comments, forums and bugs pages on their all mods. So I can't tell if those mods are stable enough to be playable. From the Skyrim community I know that's a sign of a toxic personality. I was also interested in the Bounties Expansion, Contracts Remastered and Dog Companions mods but was deterred by the large amount of bugreports. Is RDR2 stable enough to be safe to add/remove mods from a save? I don't mind trying broken mods if I can remove them safely. Struggling with the save system, the clunky akward controls, and worst of all the fire delay after clicking LMB to shoot. It seems like there's a game there worth playing it's just unreasonably inconvenient to actually play it. I also feel like the attempt to build a movie-style fixed narrative is in conflict with allowing the player to have agency within the open world. NikkolasKing posted:Chapter 2 ends with "The Sheep and the Goats." It's a mission for John who will be hanging out in Valentine. Don't do that mission and you should be fine. Thanks. So if I want to keep the gang permanently locked into a stable status quo then Chapter 3 would be a better option? OK, how far can I take the main questlines in that Chapter before I leave? What are the advantages of Chapter 3 over 2? I tried to help that woman in the alleyway in Valentine but it seems that the "Crime and Law Rebalance and Enhancement" mod caused me to get an immediate murder warrant as soon as I followed her lol. Corsec fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 23:03
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Corsec posted:I was looking at bolmin70's mods on Nexus but it seemed like a red flag that they closed the comments, forums and bugs pages on their all mods. So I can't tell if those mods are stable enough to be playable. From the Skyrim community I know that's a sign of a toxic personality. Well I just kinda like the camp in Chapter 3 more, I think there are a few more little activities you can do with various gang members, and then there are also new side missions to do in addition to those already available right now. Chapter 3 basically ends with a mission asking you to meet up with Bill, Sean, adn Micah in Rhodes. I'm afraid I can't help at all with modding RDR2, though. I never tried it. I was curious about doing it my next run but it sounds like a bit of a mess.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:57
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Chapter 3 has the best camp that's also when the last two mechanics become unlocked (legendary fish and selling stolen horses) though neither of those is particularly a big deal. It's also the end of depressed Sadie and the beginning of angry killer Sadie which is nice.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:20
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Thanks for the advice. I downloaded a minimal completion savegame from the Nexus set in Chapter 3, just before they discover the Shady Belle. I'll use that to explore the open world and just totally ignore the gang. Wish I had done this when I first started playing.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:53
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Corsec posted:Thanks for the advice. I downloaded a minimal completion savegame from the Nexus set in Chapter 3, just before they discover the Shady Belle. I'll use that to explore the open world and just totally ignore the gang. Wish I had done this when I first started playing. I'm curious, is there a reason you don't like the gang? I've seen people say this before, but for me wanting to hang out with the gang was a huge draw, so I'm wondering why people feel differently.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:19
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Arguably if you want to ignore the gang and have a full map to explore the epilogue is gonna be your go-to lol
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Feb 22, 2024 19:16
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Wolfsheim posted:Arguably if you want to ignore the gang and have a full map to explore the epilogue is gonna be your go-to lol Yeah, in my opinion there are 2 good options for a "super slow explore everything" second playthrough. Either Arthur becomes a Mountain Man in either ch 2 or 3 (dealer's choice but id say ch 3) and goes off into the wilderness. You do the collectibles, stranger missions, hunting, upgrade the camp, etc until you run out of content. then finally advance the storyline, leaving just the the missions that are chapter linked to do. alternatively, you play a strict "story only" Arthur that limits missions to just what you need to do to advance the story, and missions that are Arthur only, saving as much as possible for the epilogue. That way you have total free reign of the map and get to see the John voice lines for all of those missions.
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Feb 22, 2024 19:46
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And if you want to do that and just exist in the world without the pressure of Chapter 5 hanging over you, there's a savegame collection you can download. It's great for your second playthrough.
Philippe fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 21:26
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Thanks everybody, I had no idea that there was a free roam mode in the epilogue! The best option of all would be to play as Sadie in the epilogue rather than John, but alas (I know there's a mod for that but it breaks the voice in cutscenes). Philippe posted:And if you want to do that and just exist in the world without the pressure of Chapter 5 hanging over you, there's a savegame collection you can download. It's great for your second playthrough. The pauper edition in this pack was exactly what I wanted, so thanks for posting the link. Dr. Platypus posted:I'm curious, is there a reason you don't like the gang? I've seen people say this before, but for me wanting to hang out with the gang was a huge draw, so I'm wondering why people feel differently. A few years ago in hospital I watched a whole Let's Play, so I don't want to go through the questline since I've already seen it. I installed the game now purely for the single-player open world content (and because Online doesn't allow mods). I found the gang tolerable when I watched them on video, but I'd rather not have to be stuck within their narrative. With the benefit of hindsight it's also frustrating to watch Arthur care so much about the gang, and reject every opportunity to leave. I know it'll feel lonely but I'm installing a dog mod for companionship lol. Corsec fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 22:09
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Corsec posted:A few years ago in hospital I watched a whole Let's Play, so I don't want to go through the questline since I've already seen it. I installed the game now purely for the single-player open world content (and because Online doesn't allow mods). I found the gang tolerable when I watched them on video, but I'd rather not have to be stuck within their narrative. With the benefit of hindsight it's also frustrating to watch Arthur care so much about the gang, and reject every opportunity to leave. makes sense. thanks for explaining!
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Feb 23, 2024 17:17
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https://twitter.com/citruslucy/status/1760841035402600819?s=20
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Feb 24, 2024 00:56
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Best boah
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Feb 24, 2024 01:15
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playing this for the first time in 3 years it looks like, started from beginning the snowy beginning missions are painnnnnnn 20 Blunts fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Feb 24, 2024 |
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Feb 24, 2024 12:45
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Stupid thoughts. Earlier I said RDR2 presented Saint-Denis like Mordor from LOTR. Someone said Isengard fit better, which is true. But I also started contemplating how the VDL gang would handle the temptation of the One Ring. From Most Easily Tempted to Strongest Resistance: (exempted are Tilly, Mary-Beth, Pearson, Uncle, Swanson, Trelawney. Unsure about any of them) Micah. Obvious. Smegol situation where he'd murder somebody immediately for the Ring. Molly. Weak-willed, vain, lazy, despair. Bill. Weak-willed, desperate for validation, violent. Karen. Angry, ruled by despair and resentment. Sean: Young, stupid, reckless, violent. Sadie. Strong-willed but unstable, violent, and trapped in a pit of despair. Dutch. Strong-willed but explicitly believes in ends justify the means. Basically Saruman. Grimshaw: Strong-willed, earnest, no real ambition, but ruthless and basically shares Dutch's principles. John. Willing to compromise principles for a greater good as well, even if it's a personal greater good. Also just from what I know, he gets up to some pretty shady poo poo in RDR1. Arthur. Strong-willed, lack of ambition, but ultimately trapped in despair. His lack of hope would be his undoing, IMO. Hosea: Has the wisdom and experience of age. Cynical but not despairing. The Ring probably would get him eventually though with visions of saving his family. Lenny. Wise beyond his years, even-tempered, no real ambition. Charles. Same positive qualities as Arthur but a lot less beaten down by life. Kieran. I know, a surprising choice, but he gives me serious Sam vibes. Even Arthur has more ambition than this kid. What is the One Ring gonna tempt him with? At least by the end, he had everything he wanted in his life. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Feb 27, 2024 |
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Feb 27, 2024 05:20
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NikkolasKing posted:Kieran. I know, a surprising choice, but he gives me serious Sam vibes. Must be the voice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA1avIlelTU
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Feb 27, 2024 08:54
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I think John is actually too stubborn to really be tempted by the ring, but also so stupid he could easily be tricked into putting it on anyway
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Feb 27, 2024 15:51
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The ring would turn Micah good.
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Feb 27, 2024 16:18
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Abigail and John argue about him putting on the ring
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Feb 27, 2024 16:19
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As literally every member of the VDL gang is guilty of significant crimes that they are unrepentant of, the Ring would turn any member easily. It's not just about ambition, it's about being pure of heart as well. The Ring is inherently evil, it will be more attractive to traditionally "evil" people. Every member of the gang has things they want, and are willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill for. The Ring is a tool that can help all of them achieve their immediate goals. Gollum did not desire lordship or power either, but the Ring gave him the ability to do what he wanted. Kieran is more like Gollum than Sam from the perspective of The Ring.
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Feb 27, 2024 20:27
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WoodrowSkillson posted:As literally every member of the VDL gang is guilty of significant crimes that they are unrepentant of, the Ring would turn any member easily. It's not just about ambition, it's about being pure of heart as well. The Ring is inherently evil, it will be more attractive to traditionally "evil" people. I don't think Kieran is known to have killed anyone except one O'Driscoll who was about to kill Arthur.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:16
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Hell micah would turn as fast as smeagol for one of the lesser rings
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Feb 28, 2024 01:23
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He would do it for a normal ring worth like four thousand dollars
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Feb 28, 2024 04:37
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NikkolasKing posted:I don't think Kieran is known to have killed anyone except one O'Driscoll who was about to kill Arthur. Put him under general thievery and skullduggery then. Still very much not Samwise material.
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Feb 28, 2024 04:47
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Micah interrupted a prison break and getaway just to kill some people.
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Feb 28, 2024 04:50
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Wolfsheim posted:I think John is actually too stubborn to really be tempted by the ring, but also so stupid he could easily be tricked into putting it on anyway John goes all the way to Mount Doom, but only because Abigail hid the Taxidermy Squirrel there.
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Feb 28, 2024 04:57
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Keep in mind even Sam would have turned, given time. No one could resist it, and Frodo categorically succumbs in the end. My point is a gang of ne'er do wells would end up using the Ring in like 3 hours. Kieran would use it to hide from the O'Driscolls. Charles would use it to avenge the injustices done to natives. Dutch for riches, Micah for power, Arthur to free himself from the gang. "Yet the way of the Ring to my heart is by pity, pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good. Do not tempt me! I dare not take it, not even to keep it safe, unused." - Gandalf
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Feb 28, 2024 05:07
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Uncle could resist because he's basically Tom Bombadil
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Feb 28, 2024 05:28
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If there ever was a game that took place further in the past Uncle should just look the same.
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Feb 28, 2024 05:36
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His back is full of lumbago. He always sleeps. He says that he will never die. He drinks in light and in shadow and he is a great favorite. He always sleeps, the uncle. He is drinking, drinking. He says that he will never die.
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Feb 28, 2024 06:38
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Put him under general thievery and skullduggery then. Still very much not Samwise material. No wonder there's no Rogues in the Fellowship. Clearly D&D is superior. WoodrowSkillson posted:Keep in mind even Sam would have turned, given time. No one could resist it, and Frodo categorically succumbs in the end. My point is a gang of ne'er do wells would end up using the Ring in like 3 hours. Kieran would use it to hide from the O'Driscolls. Charles would use it to avenge the injustices done to natives. Dutch for riches, Micah for power, Arthur to free himself from the gang. I don't think Dutch ever really cared about money, if we wanna take this in a more serious direction. Detractors would say he wanted power, which might be true, although I'd say what he wanted that power for is the question. Vaguely related (considering Tolkien's Catholicism), somebody on reddit asked which seven deadly sin was best exemplified by which gang member. I'd sap your listed motives there and say Micah is 100% Greed. Dutch is 100% Pride. (Hence my Saruman comparison. The great weakness of all the major fallen Ainur is Pride.) If anyone is interested I recently watched this somewhat older interview with Dutch's actor and voice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2C8s--p-ec Sorry just YT transcript is easier than doing it all myself. I recommend just skipping to 34:37 in the video and watching it yourself. quote:34:37 NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 08:37
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NikkolasKing posted:No wonder there's no Rogues in the Fellowship. Clearly D&D is superior. Bilbo is canonically a sneakthief
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Feb 28, 2024 12:17
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Keep in mind even Sam would have turned, given time. No one could resist it, and Frodo categorically succumbs in the end. My point is a gang of ne'er do wells would end up using the Ring in like 3 hours. Kieran would use it to hide from the O'Driscolls. Charles would use it to avenge the injustices done to natives. Dutch for riches, Micah for power, Arthur to free himself from the gang. Yeah Sam had the fortune of only getting the ring at the 11th hour when it was desperate and didn’t have time to work on him
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Feb 29, 2024 02:51
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