World/Chronicles of Darkness: you turning werewolves into wereterriers

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Lord Hypnostache: Nov 6, 2009; OATHBREAKER

Hello again! It�s me, back with another recap from our New York City campaign. It�s a bit shorter this time, as a lot of time was spent on planning stuff, since I�m a kind GM who doesn�t like interrupting the players� brainstorming (although I am also a rude GM who frequently reminds them that there will always be unknowns that make their plans useless and it is a waste of time). As usual, our coterie consists of Thomas the Triad Tremere and Benedict the GOP Ventrue.

The coterie has some trouble heading their way, as well as some personal business they want to take care of. They are aware that they are being followed, but Benedict wants to reconnect with his mortal family, having been staked in a fridge for the past few months. So Benedict travels to New Jersey where his family lives, while Thomas follows him from a distance, to see if he can spot someone following Benedict. And indeed Benedict is being followed by two non-descript businessmen, one of whom Thomas recognises works for Ken Vincent. Ken Vincent is the childe of the Malkavian Primogen, and has informed the coterie that he has been tasked with causing grievous harm to them. So Thomas shoots a text message to Benedict about the situation and Benedict returns to their haven, not wanting to risk his family. The two stalkers set up a stake-out spot in a nearby cafe and the players ponder how to deal with this. As previously established, they were aware that they were being followed, but had assumed that it was the FBI Special Affairs Division and this was a grim reminder that they are on more than one shitlist.

At this point one Walter Nash drops by for a visit. Nash was the focus of the very first adventure we played in the campaign and has been featured occasionally thereafter. He is in Camarilla�s periphery, a social outcast trying to reform himself, but also openly opposes the current Prince due to sexism. He is a terrible person, but also considers the player characters friendly. And with the soft-coup in the previous session, he feels that it is time for action. The Prince has clearly lost the backing of the Primogen Council, now it is to show that Prince Panhard can�t protect her assets. And what better way to do that than burn down a gallery she owns (for a vampire, Nash is quite comfortable with arson, and he has connections to the fire department to make sure firefighters don�t arrive in time). Nash assumes the players will join him in this. Which is clearly a bad idea, but it could also be an opportunity.

The players promise to get back to him and spend the rest of the session figuring out a plan and visiting associates for advice. Specifically they drop by Massif Bass Central, the newest Elysium in the city and the one run personally by Portia, the new Keeper of Elysium. Portia is not there tonight personally, as she has to make sure the other Elysiums are running smoothly and to pay back debts accrued to make her the Keeper. But her coterie mates are there, who are not aware of Nash or his plans, nor are they intending to escalate any conflicts in the city. They suggest the coterie talk to Uncle Smelly, who would most likely be able to answer the player�s questions.

Uncle Smelly, also at the club, is willing to talk to the players, and boasts a golden VIP pass to this club, which the player coterie gave him a few months ago. Uncle Smelly still doesn�t like or respect the player characters, but he dislikes them less than most other Kindred, so he is willing to explain to them how the game of politics is played and what moves have been made. In our campaign, there has been a conflict in the background between the Clan Nosferatu and Camarilla, with Nosfetatus demanding that all of the underground belong to their clan. There have even been rumours that the Clan is about to defect to the Anarchs. Uncle Smelly explains to them that if they defected to the Anarchs, they�d just be one defecting clan among many. Now they are the one clan who didn�t defect, and can demand frequent compensation for their loyalty. In exchange for supporting Portia�s bid, they�ve received Madison Square as an Elysium. So, for now, the conflict is resolved, the Clan has gained something they didn�t have before and it didn�t cost them anything. The player�s don�t mention Nash or his plans (since it would look bad to be associated with him) but manage to pry that Uncle Smelly has no desire to see the Prince Panhard replaced, he prefers a middling Prince who keeps most of the riff-raff in check but can�t interfere with stronger, subtler Kindred plans.

The players considered if they should ask Benedict�s sire, Tarasov, for advice, but I had to inform them that it is getting late, I�d like to see this situation solved before we end this session and that they�ve asked a lot of NPC�s for advice, I�d like for them to make a decision on their own instead of indirectly asking the GM for a solution. They knew Nash�s proposition was bad, but tried to find some angle for benefit, even suggesting to lure Ken Vincent�s agents into the fire, because it would make the Malkavian Primogen look bad, if his childe�s ghouls were kind of involved in anti-Prince activities. Maybe.

Eventually they decided to inform the authorities, aka Sheriff Qadir al-Asmai, that Nash was planning an attack on the Prince�s property. Qadir responded that they are not the first source he�s heard about this from (letting the player�s know that they dodged a huge bullet!), now they have enough information to act on. Prince Panhard wastes no time invoking Lex Talionis and calling a Blood Hunt for Walter Nash�s destruction. Prince Panhard thanks the players for their information and expects them to participate, but gives them nothing.

And that was our previous session. I was fully prepared to let the players roll with Nash (and I let the players know this). This would have led to a lot of trouble. The players were not the only source Qadir had for Nash�s plans, Nash�s own coterie had sold him out. So instead of two coteries burning down a property, it would have been Nash and the players ambushed by Sheriff Qadir, Prince Panhard, and their goons. Bullet dodged.

# ? Mar 6, 2024 13:41

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:07

TheCenturion: May 3, 2013; HI I LIKE TO GIVE ADVICE ON RELATIONSHIPS

Soonmot posted:

BLOOD! AT THE DISCO!

Ah, I see you, too, are a gentlebeing of culture who understands that the MCU started in 1999 with Blade.

(ba ba dump ba da bum bum bum bum)

# ? Mar 6, 2024 15:42

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

moths posted:

Did I miss a particularly Zionist Kickstarter update?

It was this:

https://www.patreon.com/login?ru=%2Fposts%2Fracism-and-onyx-39912924%3Fimmediate_pledge_flow%3Dtrue

Which was pretty big news at the time as Khaldoun Khalil is pretty well known in the industry and won an Ennie recently for the Dune RPG book, which he wrote a sizeable chunk on (and wrote an entire article about how he was forced to de-Arab Dune, which you can read here: https://inkstickmedia.com/erasing-arabs-from-dune/ )

He's also Palestinian and the crux of the racism he dealt with at OPP specifically centered around his status as being Palestinian and Muslim, with a specific very loved white writer at OPP going so far as to tell him his culture was a sham and didn't exist.

So yeah, you'll excuse me if I never buy anything from OPP again since they've both failed to address the issue and from my dealings with that white writer on multiple Discords, he hasn't even denied the things he said and instead has chosen to take an aggressive stance that the minority guy is being overly sensitive and couldn't take a joke. :rolleyes:

# ? Mar 6, 2024 16:34

Mister Olympus: Oct 31, 2011; Buzzard, Who Steals From Dead Bodies

Fuzz posted:

It was this:

https://www.patreon.com/login?ru=%2Fposts%2Fracism-and-onyx-39912924%3Fimmediate_pledge_flow%3Dtrue

Which was pretty big news at the time as Khaldoun Khalil is pretty well known in the industry and won an Ennie recently for the Dune RPG book, which he wrote a sizeable chunk on (and wrote an entire article about how he was forced to de-Arab Dune, which you can read here: https://inkstickmedia.com/erasing-arabs-from-dune/ )

He's also Palestinian and the crux of the racism he dealt with at OPP specifically centered around his status as being Palestinian and Muslim, with a specific very loved white writer at OPP going so far as to tell him his culture was a sham and didn't exist.

So yeah, you'll excuse me if I never buy anything from OPP again since they've both failed to address the issue and from my dealings with that white writer on multiple Discords, he hasn't even denied the things he said and instead has chosen to take an aggressive stance that the minority guy is being overly sensitive and couldn't take a joke.

that link demands i log in, is there a breakdown elsewhere?

# ? Mar 6, 2024 17:57

joylessdivision: Jun 15, 2013

Mister Olympus posted:

that link demands i log in, is there a breakdown elsewhere?

quote:

Khaldoun Khelil
Racism, Blacklists and Onyx Path Publishing
Jul 30, 2020
CW: Racism, Lying, Threats, Punishment, Black Listing

My name is Khaldoun Khelil. I�ve written for, developed and consulted on numerous Role Playing Games (RPGs) and Live Action Role Playing (LARPs) games since the late 1990s/early 2000s including Vampire the Masquerade and other game properties. I have degrees in political science, criminal justice and international law. My graduate work was in the area of counterintelligence, democratic institutions and the cultural drivers of war, but I�ve spent a great deal of my career working for energy companies and think tanks. My writing on the Middle East, War Crimes, Data Collection, and Counterintelligence have been cited in numerous articles and essays. My work in RPGs was a hobby I pursued earnestly, but the past few years have allowed me to focus more and more on fiction writing as a career.

I�m an Arab American of Palestinian and Algerian ancestry, and I have had to navigate systemic racism, bigotry, and islamophobia in the RPG industry for over 20 years. The more success and exposure I garnered, the more push back I encountered from those either uninterested in including diverse voices in RPGs or those who only wanted to promote diversity performatively, but never wanted to allow people of color any creative control or independence. My post today is not a historical recounting of all of the incidents of racism I�ve faced personally or that I have heard of tangentially. This post is about a recent and specific incident of racism that originated from employees at Onyx Path Publishing that impacted me directly and their attempt to silence others and to hide the truth of this incident from me.

Synopsis: This post details racist actions taken by employees at Onyx Path Publishing. An employee at Onyx Path spread an unfounded and negative rumor about me to another RPG company (Modiphius) during or after a bilateral meeting. When I heard about this smear, another employee at Onyx Path attempted to prevent me from discovering the full story of the matter by lying to me and instead punished a Modiphius employee with refusal to work on future Modiphius projects because of my discovery of Onyx Path�s racist attempt to black list me. Instead of telling me the truth, this employee at Onyx Path personally blamed a person of color at Modiphius with an implied threat that the Modiphius employee could be fired if their employer was informed they were the whistle-blower on this matter. I held off on addressing this issue with Onyx Path for over a year because I had no confidence that the matter would be addressed professionally given the company�s track record. I only approached them now after their recent hire of an outside Human Resources consultant.

My only request was for a public apology so that the damage done by this smear against me could be mitigated and so that the racist implications of a secret black list and/or smear campaign targeting an author of color could be addressed. After one conference call with Rich Thomas and the HR consultant Georgina, Onyx Path decided the matter was not a company issue and that no public apology was necessary. I contacted their employees directly for apologies, and while both provided me with statements that admitted to no liability, only one attempted to address the issues of white privilege and racism that made this smear and cover up of this smear possible. The other was curt, half-hearted and condescending. Neither could be considered earnest apologies and Onyx Path again refused to publish them in any form or make their own statement.

I make this public statement now as a way to redress the potential harm done to my reputation and to push back against the structural problems in the RPG industry that have made it nearly impossible for more diverse voices to attain any creative or administrative power.

Statement: In June 2019 at the UK Game Expo, Matt McElroy of Onyx Path Publishing told a developer at Modiphius that I was a problem and that they would not work with me on RPG projects because I �shitted on them on social media�. Supposedly, according to McElroy, �it was known at Onyx Path� that I was a problem. There is disagreement between Modiphius and Onyx Path if this smearing of me occurred during a business meeting or afterwards during a private conversation. While McElroy insinuated that I was not welcome to work at Onyx Path, currently Onyx Path maintains that is not the case and that I�ve never been on one of their black lists. Onyx Path also clarified to me that they have never had any proof that I have ever spoken poorly of them on social media. When I questioned McElroy about this, he stated that he had heard I was a problem from one of the other two Onyx Path staffers in the meeting, though he did not clarify if that person was the owner Rich Thomas or a developer named Matt Dawkins.

I was contacted by a Modiphius employee soon after this convention, as I was currently working on multiple projects for the company and they asked me to check my social media for anything that Onyx Path could have construed as �poo poo talking�. Though at no point did Modiphius make me feel my employment hinged on my proving my innocence. I of course found nothing in my social media and I was told the basics of the above story. While the racist effects of Onyx Path�s actions against me are undeniable, I was unsure if there was racist intent and I was hesitant to quarrel with highly placed white RPG figures such as Matt McElroy who is a leading figure at DriveThruRpg, the ST Vault, Onyx Path and Flames Rising. Not to mention Rich Thomas the owner of Onyx Path or the Onyx Path Developer Matt Dawkins. I decided to let the matter be, as it was not the first time I had encountered bigotry, racism, white privilege or borderline cases of all of the above.

Several months later in Sept. 2019 I asked Matt Dawkins about this issue, as I didn�t know McElroy and had some trust for Dawkins. I had recommended he work on a book with me for Modiphius and I believed we had a good working relationship. Dawkins was an early supporter of my work on Mummy and other WoD titles when he produced YouTube videos as the Gentleman Gamer in the time before he himself became an RPG writer. When I asked him if I had been smeared or black listed, Dawkins claimed complete ignorance, despite having been in the above meeting at UK Game Expo between Onyx Path and Modiphius. He claimed he did not know McElroy well and that he�d never heard my name referenced in a negative way by anyone at Onyx Path. He suggested I contact McElroy directly, but Dawkins' denial was adamant. He also said that he checked the company�s black list and that I was not on it. I was actually relieved on some level and just assumed that McElroy had some personal issue with me and that Modiphius had told him to stuff it.

I would later find out that Dawkins was lying to me and he continued to hide the truth from me until I contacted Onyx Path directly and formally complained to their newly appointed HR Consultant. Dawkins thus enabled a racist smear against me to stand and if not for his later actions to punish and threaten an employee at Modiphius, I might never have found out the truth.

A few weeks after I contacted Dawkins about this issue and he denied it, he would be contacted by a developer at Modiphius asking for Dawkins to write a blog post for an upcoming project. Dawkins refused and said that he personally blamed this Modiphius employee for my knowledge of the smear against me. Dawkins deduced that because this developer was also in the UK Games Expo meeting he must have been the whistle-blower, this Modiphus developer also happened to be the only person of color in the meeting as well. In this exchange, Dawkins wasn't angry that a brown author was being smeared by his colleague, but that Modiphius did not keep silent about McElroy's request to black list me. Dawkins instead tells this developer that he refuses to work for Modiphius again and that it�s his fault personally, the threatening implication of that being he could be fired if his boss was to find out he was the whistle-blower. The conversation ends with Dawkins saying he may reconsider in the future if Modiphius improves its ability to keep things confidential. In short, silence in the face of misdeeds was his expectation and unfortunately this is the same culture of silence that has made the RPG industry a ripe hunting ground for predators, abusers and racists.

It was this conversation between Dawkins and the Modiphius developer that dispelled any benefit of the doubt I had left that I had not been smeared by McElroy and that Dawkins had not lied to me about it in hopes of covering it up. When I spoke to Onyx Path over a conference call about this matter a few weeks ago I asked them how they had discovered that I had found out about the smear against me. I asked Onyx Path if they found out I knew because �I had approached Matt Dawkins about the racist black list?�, Onyx Path�s HR consultant responded with one word... �Yes.�

It is impossible to see into the hearts of others. No one can know if someone is intrinsically racist, and I personally do not believe racism is an intrinsic quality of human beings. But we are all capable of racist actions, and when Onyx Path employee Matt McElroy used their authority and privilege to demean, smear and potentially black list one of the few Palestinian-American authors working in RPGs, that was racist. When Onyx Path employee Matt Dawkins lied to me about the facts and instead took punitive action against another company to keep me in the dark, that was racist. Facing that and empowering diverse voices in the industry to challenge these structural problems is the only long term solution.

All I ever asked for was a public and sincere apology for patently racist actions by employees representing Onyx Path, but voices like mine are so weak in the RPG world that I was not even able to win that modest reparation for myself. I write this statement in hopes of empowering the next creative person of color and educating those they may work for in this industry. Hopefully they'll never be put in a position to ask for an apology, but if they do find themselves in such a position I hope my story shows them that they�re not the first to be treated poorly and that it�s never wrong or too late to stand up for yourself.

Khaldoun Khelil

07/28/2020

# ? Mar 6, 2024 18:40

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

https://www.patreon.com/posts/Fracism-and-onyx-39912924 stripped the login prompt out of the URL

# ? Mar 6, 2024 18:46

Free Cog: Feb 27, 2011

Ghost Armor 1337 posted:

well it could be summed up in four words somehow Albrecht is canon.

For what it's worth, that was established in the W5 corebook. The section on Talismans points out the Silver Crown as a legendary Talisman belonging to the "Albrecht lineage" which, given that Lycanthropy is no longer directly tied to genetics in this version of the setting, probably makes the idea of a lineage existing at all a huge deal. Considering that and a few other callbacks, W5 seems like it's taking more of a Ultimate Marvel-style approach to rebooting the setting when it's not taking a few pages from Werewolf: The Forsaken First Edition: a whole lot of familiar names, recontextualized as necessary.

# ? Mar 6, 2024 20:56

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

As part of the GM Day sale Wraith 20th is $18 for the PDF and that is well worth it.

# ? Mar 6, 2024 21:37

I Am Just a Box: Jul 20, 2011; I belong here. I contain only inanimate objects. Nothing is amiss.

Fuzz posted:

He's also Palestinian and the crux of the racism he dealt with at OPP specifically centered around his status as being Palestinian and Muslim, with a specific very loved white writer at OPP going so far as to tell him his culture was a sham and didn't exist.

I'm curious who the writer in question is, unless it's just one of the people mentioned by name in the Patreon article, none of whom I would personally call well-loved writers though I'm sure they have their fans.

If it's who I'm guessing it is, that guy's been all over in the past few years and I think he's been a pretty drat bad influence.

# ? Mar 6, 2024 21:48

Ghost Armor 1337: Jul 28, 2023

Free Cog posted:

For what it's worth, that was established in the W5 corebook. The section on Talismans points out the Silver Crown as a legendary Talisman belonging to the "Albrecht lineage" which, given that Lycanthropy is no longer directly tied to genetics in this version of the setting, probably makes the idea of a lineage existing at all a huge deal. Considering that and a few other callbacks, W5 seems like it's taking more of a Ultimate Marvel-style approach to rebooting the setting when it's not taking a few pages from Werewolf: The Forsaken First Edition: a whole lot of familiar names, recontextualized as necessary.

Well one worry I have is that renegade might start to crowbar in old lore into the setting without thinking about how it's affect things both narratively and mechanically, since either A) as a reaction to the negative fan reception of W5 core and/or B) renegade writers have run out of ideas so they have to mine old W20 material to pad out they book, hell I seen mentions on onyx path of a supplement called Scent of Decay which centers around a bane corrupted company that may or may not be pentex...

# ? Mar 7, 2024 01:34

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

I'm not entirely sure how we'd reach the conclusion Albrecht was anything but canon.

Also, the Khelil post sucks but affirms my decision to walk away from supporting both OPP and WW a couple of years ago, though now I need to make a particular note of not buying new Mage stuff too.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 01:39

Free Cog: Feb 27, 2011

Ghost Armor 1337 posted:

I seen mentions on onyx path of a supplement called Scent of Decay which centers around a bane corrupted company that may or may not be pentex...

Pentex is also in the W5 core rulebook, they have a large section of the antagonist chapter that even covers how to use them in a three-act structure, starting small and building up to First Team responders, who are also in the setting again. Anything in the setting that also appeared in the original editions that makes it to the books on the shelves is something Paradox wanted there; just like how OPP's WoD books had to go past PDX, so do Renegade's. Being a reboot or a re-imagining doesn't mean you don't use the things the brand is known for, after all...unless your name is Hunter: The Reckoning, I suppose. Even then, terminology like Creeds and Edges are there because you gotta use them. If you don't use it, you might lose it.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 01:52

citybeatnik: Mar 1, 2013; You Are All
WEIRDOS

Free Cog posted:

a Ultimate Marvel-style approach to rebooting the setting

YOU THINK THIS GLYPH CARVED INTO MY FOREHEAD STANDS FOR FRANCE!?

# ? Mar 7, 2024 02:07

Ghost Armor 1337: Jul 28, 2023

Free Cog posted:

Hunter: The Reckoning, I suppose. Even then, terminology like Creeds and Edges are there because you gotta use them. If you don't use it, you might lose it.

Talking about Hunter I remember mentions of a supplement that runs counter to the intend tone of the core book so I'm guessing it's org splatbook or it involves the imbued.

Ghost Armor 1337 fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Mar 7, 2024

# ? Mar 7, 2024 02:09

Free Gratis: Apr 17, 2002; Karate Jazz Wolf

The core book goes so far out of it's way to not say anything concrete about the setting, except for the occasional tidbit that's a nudge and a wink, like with the mention of the Albrecht Lineage. Achilli was so adamant about separating W5 from the legacy editions, but he left the World of Darkness team a while before the release of W5 and he made mention that some additional development had been done after his tenure, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was something put in last minute. (Also wouldn't be surprised if this was also when they slipped in a chunk of Rites that are almost word for word identical to their W20 write ups. I don't see any W20 writers credited FYI)

If they want to keep selling supplements they're going to HAVE to crystallize some elements. Might as well be Albrecht I guess, since the Silver Fangs whole schtick kind of relies on pedigree, and I found their tribal write-up a bit confusing with the lack of it.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 02:34

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

I don't know if they steered hard enough away from the Pure Breed stuff to make it so that Garou arise essentially at random, however you could easily have an adoptive lineage.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 02:46

Dave Brookshaw: Jun 27, 2012; No Regrets

I always vacillate between �I don�t know Khaldoun very well but I do bloody well respect him and think he of all people knows Islamophobia when he sees it� and �I�m pretty sure they�ve treated various white people exactly the same way�.

EDIT - with a side note of knowing for a fact that at least one Dev was trying to *hire* him when it happened and had not been told of any blacklist. Which I chalk to standard organisational chaos.

Morbidly interested in who mystery racist author is, just in case it�s one of the, like, two friends who still freelance at OPP.

Dave Brookshaw fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Mar 7, 2024

# ? Mar 7, 2024 07:58

citybeatnik: Mar 1, 2013; You Are All
WEIRDOS

V5 question.

Potence 1 lets you deal agg brawl damage to mortals and Brutal Feed lets you slurp down non-vampires like a Capri Sun...

Do Garou count as 'mortals' for the former and would you similarly let a vampire go HAM on a werewolf with feeding or are they supernatural enough to not count for the first and too tough for the latter?

Nessus posted:

I don't know if they steered hard enough away from the Pure Breed stuff to make it so that Garou arise essentially at random, however you could easily have an adoptive lineage.

There's no Pure Breed or its equivalent (nor Past Lives that i can see) so adoptive lineages would be the best bet. Which is cool sounding to me.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 15:36

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Thanks for that blog post. Holy poo poo.

I get why he wouldn't describe the racism/Islamiphobia. It only invites the overshadowing argument of whether or not his examples were "sufficiently bigoted." A person knows when they're being discriminated against.

But even without discrimination that's still scummy and unprofessional enough behavior to be done with them.

(Which is easier now that they make nothing cool, but still.)

# ? Mar 7, 2024 15:48

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Given how Paradox treated Sambrano it feels unseemly on the whole to support anything vaguely WoD-related.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 15:51

MoonKnight: Jul 14, 2018

citybeatnik posted:

V5 question.

Potence 1 lets you deal agg brawl damage to mortals and Brutal Feed lets you slurp down non-vampires like a Capri Sun...

Do Garou count as 'mortals' for the former and would you similarly let a vampire go HAM on a werewolf with feeding or are they supernatural enough to not count for the first and too tough for the latter?

They don't. Mortals are just normal human juiceboxes.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:02

Dave Brookshaw: Jun 27, 2012; No Regrets

moths posted:

(Which is easier now that they make nothing cool, but still.)

It certainly doesn't entice me to engage with "CofD heartbreaker made by the people who pushed everyone I like out of the industry" or whatever the gently caress Curseborne turns out to be under the ARG fuckery.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:04

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

citybeatnik posted:

There's no Pure Breed or its equivalent (nor Past Lives that i can see) so adoptive lineages would be the best bet. Which is cool sounding to me.

Right, and it doesn't take a lot of rhetorical flexion if you're primarily recruiting woofs from a particular region over a long period of time to say "obviously everyone who Changes in this general region is a distant descendant of Fangs-of-Silver, that's just science, especially if they pass The Trials"

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:07

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

Loomer posted:

Also, the Khelil post sucks but affirms my decision to walk away from supporting both OPP and WW a couple of years ago, though now I need to make a particular note of not buying new Mage stuff too.

Interestingly, he wrote V5 Sabbat for Renegade after all of this and still freelances for Paradox as a whole. I actually asked him about the Karim stuff with Sambrano, since he's obviously dealt with the guy, and yeah... I've never met Karim, but after hearing some play by plays of interactions with him, it would not entirely surprise me if he is somewhere on the autism spectrum, and I can't help but wonder if a lot of the tone and miscommunication type issues basically circle back to that. For what it's worth, Khalil said the guy is extremely blunt to the point of being rude pretty often, but overall from his years of experience working with the guy on the V5 Core and onward, he's actually been a pretty fair and not racist boss TO HIM (Khalil). Karim seems to have severe issues with his affect and communication.

Fuzz fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Mar 7, 2024

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:09

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Dave Brookshaw posted:

I always vacillate between �I don�t know Khaldoun very well but I do bloody well respect him and think he of all people knows Islamophobia when he sees it� and �I�m pretty sure they�ve treated various white people exactly the same way�.

EDIT - with a side note of knowing for a fact that at least one Dev was trying to *hire* him when it happened and had not been told of any blacklist. Which I chalk to standard organisational chaos.

Morbidly interested in who mystery racist author is, just in case it�s one of the, like, two friends who still freelance at OPP.

Matt Dawkins being dropped as one of of the potential sources didn't really surprise me, but my first reading of it was also 'We've heard stories of them treating white people the same way.'

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:14

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Dave Brookshaw posted:

It certainly doesn't entice me to engage with "CofD heartbreaker made by the people who pushed everyone I like out of the industry" or whatever the gently caress Curseborne turns out to be under the ARG fuckery.

Same, especially knowing that at least one of the folks involved in it is part of why I no longer write for OP myself.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 16:26

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

Kurieg posted:

Matt Dawkins being dropped as one of of the potential sources didn't really surprise me, but my first reading of it was also 'We've heard stories of them treating white people the same way.'

The bullying stuff they definitely have done to basically anyone.

The racism stuff was very specific and targeted comments, though, on top of their usual poo poo.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 17:34

citybeatnik: Mar 1, 2013; You Are All
WEIRDOS

MoonKnight posted:

They don't. Mortals are just normal human juiceboxes.

So one couldn't use Lethal Body to deal Agg to ghouls either?

The main thing with Brutal Feed is that you deal additional Agg up to your Potence / Sate a level of Hunger rating to "mortals" as you crush and tear internal organs to get at the good stuff. Against Kindred your effective Potence is halved (rounded down) and you only deal Superficial on top of increasing your target's Hunger because it's drat hard to force out vitae. But could the same be said of a werewolf?

Unless I misread what you meant re "they don't" and that was specifically directed at Lethal Body. The upcoming game's set in Anchorage and my questions are more a thought experiment in case my Lasombra gets a chance to tombstone piledrive a lupine and feed.

# ? Mar 7, 2024 19:51

Soonmot: Dec 19, 2002; Entrapta fucking loves robots; Grimey Drawer

citybeatnik posted:

V5 question.

Potence 1 lets you deal agg brawl damage to mortals and Brutal Feed lets you slurp down non-vampires like a Capri Sun...

Do Garou count as 'mortals' for the former and would you similarly let a vampire go HAM on a werewolf with feeding or are they supernatural enough to not count for the first and too tough for the latter?

I would say no to werewolves counting as mortals, that's super straightforward. Don't know enough about the new stuff to have any opinion on the later question.

moths posted:

Thanks for that blog post. Holy poo poo.

I get why he wouldn't describe the racism/Islamiphobia. It only invites the overshadowing argument of whether or not his examples were "sufficiently bigoted." A person knows when they're being discriminated against.

But even without discrimination that's still scummy and unprofessional enough behavior to be done with them.

(Which is easier now that they make nothing cool, but still.)

yep, after reading that, just imagine i posted the jerry leaving the theater gif cuz gently caress

# ? Mar 7, 2024 20:07

joylessdivision: Jun 15, 2013

citybeatnik posted:

Unless I misread what you meant re "they don't" and that was specifically directed at Lethal Body. The upcoming game's set in Anchorage and my questions are more a thought experiment in case my Lasombra gets a chance to tombstone piledrive a lupine and feed.

This should happen regardless, because that poo poo would be :krad:

# ? Mar 7, 2024 23:22

MoonKnight: Jul 14, 2018

citybeatnik posted:

So one couldn't use Lethal Body to deal Agg to ghouls either?

The main thing with Brutal Feed is that you deal additional Agg up to your Potence / Sate a level of Hunger rating to "mortals" as you crush and tear internal organs to get at the good stuff. Against Kindred your effective Potence is halved (rounded down) and you only deal Superficial on top of increasing your target's Hunger because it's drat hard to force out vitae. But could the same be said of a werewolf?

Unless I misread what you meant re "they don't" and that was specifically directed at Lethal Body. The upcoming game's set in Anchorage and my questions are more a thought experiment in case my Lasombra gets a chance to tombstone piledrive a lupine and feed.

Yeah, the book isn't 100% clear on interactions (I guess they're not expecting most players to want to treat a werewolf like a juice box). Ghouls and regular animals are still mortals, not supernatural creatures. Werewolves are fully supernatural creatures. So anything that says 'a mortal' like Cauldron of Blood kills a mortal, wouldn't kill a werewolf, Lethal Body wouldn't do agg, but you'll have to probably make some personal rules for things in other powers. For Brutal Feed, I'd probably treat it like doing it to a vampire: deal Superficial damage rather than agg (because of their toughness) and do the half feeding actions, since Werewolf blood already counts for double. It stays within the normal use of Brutal Feed on vampires without being 'oops I agg-drank it to death' which is anticlimactic for 'the Great Enemy'.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 7, 2024

# ? Mar 7, 2024 23:30

MoonKnight: Jul 14, 2018

Double post - ignore.

MoonKnight fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Mar 7, 2024

# ? Mar 7, 2024 23:30

I Am Just a Box: Jul 20, 2011; I belong here. I contain only inanimate objects. Nothing is amiss.

citybeatnik posted:

Do Garou count as 'mortals' for the former and would you similarly let a vampire go HAM on a werewolf with feeding or are they supernatural enough to not count for the first and too tough for the latter?

White Wolf and its successors have had a long history of saying the word "mortal" and meaning "non-supernatural human." And a long history of being ambiguous and inconsistent whether various lesser touches of the supernatural like ghouling count as being this kind of "mortal" or not.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 01:23

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

It all just makes me even happier to work on my own terrible mechanical system.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 02:29

Fuzz: Jun 2, 2003; Avatar brought to you by the TG Sanity fund

citybeatnik posted:

So one couldn't use Lethal Body to deal Agg to ghouls either?

The main thing with Brutal Feed is that you deal additional Agg up to your Potence / Sate a level of Hunger rating to "mortals" as you crush and tear internal organs to get at the good stuff. Against Kindred your effective Potence is halved (rounded down) and you only deal Superficial on top of increasing your target's Hunger because it's drat hard to force out vitae. But could the same be said of a werewolf?

Unless I misread what you meant re "they don't" and that was specifically directed at Lethal Body. The upcoming game's set in Anchorage and my questions are more a thought experiment in case my Lasombra gets a chance to tombstone piledrive a lupine and feed.

Ghouls, Mages, and even regular Thinbloods without Kindred Resilience would count as mortals for damage purposes, so Lethal Body would do agg to them. Werewolves are supernatural and have their own rules.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 06:04

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

I found out Malcolm Sheppard apparently had a WW heartbreaker called Opening the Dark around 2008 that has unfortunately been mostly scrubbed from the internet.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 14:45

Gatto Grigio: Feb 9, 2020

joylessdivision posted:

This should happen regardless, because that poo poo would be

Seconded.

The vamp vs. werewolf thing in WoD is usually so stacked towards werewolves. I like the idea of a Lupine pouncing on a vampire thinking �easy prey� and then getting absolutely bodied

# ? Mar 8, 2024 18:57

joylessdivision: Jun 15, 2013

Gatto Grigio posted:

Seconded.

The vamp vs. werewolf thing in WoD is usually so stacked towards werewolves. I like the idea of a Lupine pouncing on a vampire thinking �easy prey� and then getting absolutely bodied

Someday I'll run the dumbest WoD/Wrestling crossover game. Just yell "WHAT?" whenever the Prince says something, Stone Cold Stunner fools left and right. Narrate all combat as Jim Ross.
"AS CAINE AS MY WITNESS HE IS BROKEN IN HALF!"

# ? Mar 8, 2024 21:17

Soonmot: Dec 19, 2002; Entrapta fucking loves robots; Grimey Drawer

joylessdivision posted:

Someday I'll run the dumbest WoD/Wrestling crossover game. Just yell "WHAT?" whenever the Prince says something, Stone Cold Stunner fools left and right. Narrate all combat as Jim Ross.
"AS CAINE AS MY WITNESS HE IS BROKEN IN HALF!"

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Extreme_Wrestling_Warfare

quote:

Overview
The ways of the Jyhad are shrouded in subtlety, as cloaking and ephemeral as ancient Night itself. And yet, there is one arena in which the freakish denizens of the dark can flaunt their nature freely, in which Masquerades fall to tatters and the Delirium only exacerbates the onlookers� blood-mad frenzy. This is the circus of carnage known to Classic World of Darkness sports aficionados as Extreme Wrestling Warfare. The barbaric spectacle, which is televised worldwide and garners enormous pay-per-view revenues, is wildly popular among mortal and Awakened beings alike.

In EWW, the jaded fans are accustomed to crazed combat maneuvers and bizarre characters, so even the most monstrous of the night-breed is but another costumed legend, to be revered or reviled as the fans see fit. Although the majority of EWW�s competitors are human (if only nominally so), a fair number of supernaturals compete in the federation, both to hone their combat skills and to wallow in the luxury of indulging their powers in public.� The Pentex Corporation runs a training camp from which many �steroid�-twisted combatants emerge.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 21:42

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# ? Apr 29, 2024 08:07

joylessdivision: Jun 15, 2013

Soonmot posted:

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Extreme_Wrestling_Warfare

FMW meets the supernatural. It's beautiful

# ? Mar 8, 2024 22:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > World/Chronicles of Darkness: you turning werewolves into wereterriers

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