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The Hall of Fame announced its final ballot for the 2020 class, and so we have more excuses to argue about football! In honor of the NFL's 100th year, this year's class will be expanded to 20 members. Five will come from the Modern-Era Player Finalists, in addition to the Centennial Slate ballot already announced back in December. That list will have 10 Senior Players, three Contributors, and two Coaches enshrined in Canton this year. As is tradition in recent years, the 2020 class will be officially announced at the NFL Honors show the day before the Super Bowl. CENTENNIAL SLATE FINALISTS Senior Players: Cliff Branch, Harold Carmichael, Jim Covert, Roger Craig, Bobby Dillon, LaVern Diiwag, Ox Emerson, Randy Gradishar, Cliff Harris, Winston Hill, Cecil Isbell, Alex Barras, Verne Lewellen, Tommy Nobic, Drew Pearson, Donnie Shell, Duke Slater, Mac Speedie, Ed Wrinkle, Al Wistert Contributors: Bud Adams, Ralph Hay, Frank "Bucko" Kilroy, Art McNally, Art Modell, Clint Murchison, Steve Sabol, Seymour Siwoff, Paul Tagliabue, George Young Coaches: Don Coryell, Bill Cowher, Tom Flores, Mike Holmgren, Jimmy Johnson, Buddy Parker, Dan Reeves, Dick Vermeil MODERN-ERA PLAYER FINALISTS Steve Atwater, Safety Denver Broncos 1989-98, New York Jets 1999 Two first-team All-Pros, 8 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 1st Team All-1990s Tony Boselli, Offensive Tackle Jacksonville Jaguars 1995-2001 Three first-team All-Pros, 5 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 2nd Team All-1990s Isaac Bruce, Wide Receiver St. Louis Rams 1994-2007, San Francisco 49ers 2008-09 Four Pro Bowls, league leader in receiving yards (1996) LeRoy Butler, Safety Green Bay Packers 1990-2001 Four first-team All-Pros, 4 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 1st Team All-1990s Alan Faneca, Guard Pittsburgh Steelers 1998-2007, New York Jets 2008-09, Arizona Cardinals 2010 Six first-team All-Pros, 9 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 1st Team All-2000s Torry Holt, Wide Receiver St. Louis Rams 1999-2008, Jacksonville Jaguars 2009 One first-team All-Pro, 7 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 2nd Team All-2000s, league leader in receptions (2003) and receiving yards (2000, 2003) Steve Hutchinson, Guard Seattle Seahawks 2001-05, Minnesota Vikings 2006-11, Tennessee Titans 2012 Five first-team All-Pros, 7 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 1st Team All-2000s Edgerrin James, Running Back Indianapolis Colts 1999-2005, Arizona Cardinals 2006-08, Seattle Seahawks 2009 One first-team All-Pro, 4 Pro Bowls, 1999 Offensive Rookie of the Year, Hall of Fame 1st Team All-2000s, league leader in rushing yards (1999, 2000), touchdowns (1999) and yards from scrimmage (2000) John Lynch, Safety Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1993-2003, Denver Broncos 2004-07 Two first-team All-Pros, 9 Pro Bowls Sam Mills, Linebacker New Orleans Saints 1986-94, Carolina Panthers 1995-97 One first-team All-Pro, 5 Pro Bowls Troy Polamalu, Safety Pittsburgh Steelers 2003-14 Four first-team All-Pros, 8 Pro Bowls, 2010 Defensive Player of the Year, Hall of Fame 2nd Team All-2000s Richard Seymour, Defensive Lineman New England Patriots 2001-08, Oakland Raiders 2009-12 Three first-team All-Pros, 7 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 1st Team All-2000s Zach Thomas, Linebacker Miami Dolphins 1996-2007, Dallas Cowboys 2008 Five first-team All-Pros, 7 Pro Bowls, Hall of Fame 2nd Team All-2000s, league leader in tackles (2002, 2006) Reggie Wayne, Wide Receiver Indianapolis Colts 2001-14 One first-team All-Pro, 6 Pro Bowls, league leader in receiving yards (2007) Bryant Young, Defensive Tackle San Francisco 49ers 1994-2007 One first-team All-Pro, 4 Pro Bowls, 1999 Comeback Player of the Year, Hall of Fame 2nd Team All-1990s So who's your pick to get in this year? Remember the following criteria: 5 Modern Players 10 Senior Players 3 Contributors 2 Coaches
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Jan 4, 2020 01:37
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Yearly "Put in Don Coryell you loving cowards" post
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Jan 4, 2020 01:41
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If Bud Adams goes in I riot
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Jan 4, 2020 01:42
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a neat cape posted:Yearly "Put in Don Coryell you loving cowards" post Now that they finally got him off the modern ballot I think this is his best chance yet, but who the gently caress even knows anymore
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Jan 4, 2020 01:47
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OK so here's my stab at predicting the ballot (not necessarily who I think should go in, but who I think they'll choose), just based on probability. Steve Atwater: This is a pretty weird ballot with a lot of first-time guys, which will only increase as recent legends who retired in the 2010s reach eligibility soon. In other words, it's time to poo poo or get off the pot with Atwater, who's been on the ballot forever. The safety logjam isn't getting any better when Ed Reed (who's a first-ballot lock after making the NFL 100 team) becomes eligible, and I'll talk about Polamalu later, but this feels like now or never for Atwater, who never seems to get any real traction despite being the face of the Broncos defense in the 90s. Chance: 40% Tony Boselli: Terrell Davis' induction seemingly settled the "peak vs. longevity" argument we've been having for years, but Patrick Willis didn't even make the finalist list this year, so it appears that debate is still alive and well. Either way, Boselli has a strong peak going for him and a sentimental favorite, as he'd be the first Jaguars player to be inducted. Now that most of his peers are inducted, there could be a dry spell for LTs until the likes of Joe Thomas and D'Brickashaw Ferguson become eligible, so this would be the perfect year for Boselli to sneak in. Chance: 60% Isaac Bruce: Personally I'm a big-hall guy who'd probably vote for Bruce if I had the chance, but I can see the arguments against him. Despite his lofty stats, he never made an All-Pro first team, and spent most of the second half of his career playing second fiddle to Torry Holt, whom we'll get to in a moment. He's one of those guys who got stuck in the ballot's big WR logjam dilemma, and I don't see that changing this year. Chance: 20% LeRoy Butler: I don't think he's getting in, but he was super fun to watch and deserves more love as one of the linchpins of those 90s Packers juggernauts. Chance: 10% Alan Faneca: Would probably be in already if it wasn't for the guard logjam that still plagues the ballot today. Really, it's overdue at this point. Chance: 80% Torry Holt: The other great WR from the Greatest Show on Turf. I might be biased towards Holt since he was a famous Seahawk killer and almost always the best player on the field in those games, but I prefer his resume over Bruce's and I'm kinda surprised he hasn't gotten more momentum by now. That could come in the future, but WRs have a notoriously long waiting line on the HOF ballot. Chance: 30% Steve Hutchinson: Much like Faneca, he should be in already. His biggest problem is that the committee might choose Faneca first and make him wait another year. Chance: 60% Edgerrin James: Edge had an awesome career and deserves a lot of credit for seamlessly replacing Marshall Faulk in Indy. But as the only RB on the ballot, he kinda feels like a filler entry while the voters wait for Adrian Peterson, Frank Gore, and Marshawn Lynch to become eligible. Chance: 30% John Lynch: He has a lot of the same problems Atwater does, in that he's been on the ballot forever and you gotta clear out this safety logjam sooner than later, so make up your minds already. What gives Lynch the upper hand over Atwater is his work as GM of the 49ers, who are currently well-positioned to make a Super Bowl run. I thought he would've eventually gotten in even if his GM career didn't happen, but that certainly bolstered his resume. Chance: 80% Sam Mills: I honestly don't know much about him other than being one of the few bright spots of the 80s-90s Saints. Good on him, I guess. If he's on the ballot next year then I'll start paying more attention. Chance: 5% Troy Polamalu: Biggest lock of the year, and a first-ballot shoe-in since the day he retired. Voters should be thrilled that they can just open-shut Polamalu's case and move on to figuring out the rest of the safety mess on their ballot. Chance: 100% Richard Seymour: The Pats won three Super Bowls in the 2000s, and yet it's more than a little strange that so few players from that era have gotten serious HOF consideration. That seems to be shifting, as Ty Law finally got in last year and Seymour looks like a strong frontrunner this year. He was easily the Pats' best DL during their Super Bowl runs, and while his Raiders career is much-maligned he still put up three solid years before hanging them up. History has been pretty kind to him as more people appreciate how good those Pats defenses were. Chance: 80% Zach Thomas: The face of the Dolphins in between Marino's twilight years and the Ryan Tannehill golden age (cough). I think Thomas is one of those guys where you had to actually be there to see how good he was, since it sure feels like he's been forgotten by modern fans (or mocked for racking up tackle totals for mostly crappy Dolphins teams). But I'll stand here and tell you that Zach Thomas loving owned, I'll hear no word to the contrary, and he's a Hall of Famer in my heart if maybe not in Canton. Chance: 40% Reggie Wayne: The biggest knock on Wayne is that he spent most of his career being the second-best receiver on his own team. And while he delivered plenty of legit WR1 seasons with or without Marvin Harrison, the reputation still lingers. I'm surprised that he made the finalist ballot in his first year, so clearly the voters think more highly of him than I do. But if he does get in, it's not happening right now. Chance: 20% Bryant Young: I don't agree with 49ers fans on much, but this we can agree on : Put Bryant Young in you loving cowards. Chance: 40% Final predictions Troy Polamalu Alan Faneca John Lynch Richard Seymour Tony Boselli Benne fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 06:25
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ed reed is currently in the hall of fame so i think him becoming eligible is probably not much of a worry
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Jan 4, 2020 06:29
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Ghost Dog posted:ed reed is currently in the hall of fame so i think him becoming eligible is probably not much of a worry  For some reason his retirement doesn't feel like it happened that long ago since he was around forever. But yeah, Reed is enshrined and you can forget my concern-trolling about the safety logjam.Who are the next safeties up for eligibility? I think the 2000s are mostly taken care of with Reed, Brian Dawkins, and presumably Polamalu getting in. The 2010s have Earl Thomas and Eric Weddle who are still active, and Eric Berry has a strong case despite his career ending early. But those guys aren't going on the ballot for a while, so either way, this would be the perfect year to get Atwater and Lynch in if voters are still on the fence about them.
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Jan 4, 2020 07:02
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Edgerrin James a filler entry? He's been a finalist five times. Being the only RB, I think this is his year. Wayne will clearly get in eventually since he was a first year finalist but he'll need to wait for Bruce and Holt first. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Jan 4, 2020 19:08
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Edge not being in is baffling to me
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Jan 4, 2020 19:09
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Hey, for those of you curious, they announced the Senior Class and non-players yesterday. Everybody who watches the playoffs knows they announced Bill Cowher and Jimmy Johnson early on their respective networks, surprising both of them, but here's the rest (Basically copied from their HoF site) and some general commentary. Contributors: - *Steve Sabol, Administrator/President – 1964-2012 NFL Films - Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League - *George Young, Contributor/General Manager – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League So, Steve Sabol should have been in like... 30 years ago for everything he did with NFL Films. We wouldn't remember half the people already in the Hall of Fame, and certainly modern football itself wouldn't look the same, without everything they did there. It's a shame he isn't here for it. Tagliabue is... eh? He's generally well regarded for keeping labor peace in the league after troubles in the 70's and two strikes in the 80's, as well as expanding the league from 28 to 32 teams. I recall some commentary about him maybe being too lax with punishing players for off-the-field stuff, which led to Roger coming in and all the absurd poo poo over the last decade... But basically every commissioner gets in at some point, so whatever. George Young's main contribution was basically being the first true General Manager of the Giants, so he was the guy who hired Bill Parcells and helped the Giants get out of a 17-year playoff drought. He built the team that won two Super Bowls, but he also drafted Dave Brown. I'd rather his corpse be the GM than Gettlemen. The other contributor nominees are a mix of owners and random other names that didn't really jump out to me, even when the list came out, so this group is okay. Coaches: - Bill Cowher – 1992-2006 Pittsburgh Steelers - Jimmy Johnson – 1989-1993 Dallas Cowboys, 1996-99 Miami Dolphins Jimmy I'm perfectly fine with. We all know what he did with the early 90's Cowboys, and every single player involved pretty much say his leaving is the biggest factor in that team not winning more Super Bowls. Not a long career, but absolutely deserving. Cowher... not so much. Someone else pointed out the comparison to Tony Dungy in another thread, and I really feel the same way. Both coached for long periods, and while they helped build teams that had success (Dungy in Tampa, before going to a mostly assembled Colts team), I honestly question how vital to their teams they really were. The Steelers continued right along without Cowher under Mike Tomlin, but Cowher has the benefit, like many former players and coaches, of being on TV and having been a colorful personality when he was in the league. I'm not hugely opposed to him being inducted, but I think some of the guys they excluded were far, far more deserving. Don Coryell is chief among those guys. The West Coast offense gets more attention because Bill Walsh won 3 Super Bowls, and then the 49ers won two more with a pair of the most dominant offensive teams ever (With the 1989 49ers maybe being the best team, period), but Air Coryell was just as important to the formation of modern passing games. The system was taken by guys like Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Mike Martz, and others, then tweaked to fit different player groups, and helped create a bunch of Super Bowl winning teams elsewhere. If you are looking at the list of coaches who impacted the passing offense in the NFL, Coryell is right up there with guys like Walsh and Gillman, and should have been in the Hall of Fame years and years ago. Among the rest, Mike Holmgren deserves credit for being the OC of the late 80's 49ers, then obviously everything he did in Green Bay and Seattle. I suspect he'll get in at some point, and I'd have picked him before Cowher (But after Coryell). Flores has been underrated his entire life, but is also worthy. Vermeil I'm mixed on, as he left the Greatest Show on Turf, and he feels like a guy who left too much behind. Reeves is over-rated and just hung around forever, while Buddy Parker I had to look up to find out he mainly coached the Lions in the mid-50's and the Steelers in the late-50's to mid-60's... so yeah? Senior Players: - Harold Carmichael, WR – 1971-1983 Philadelphia Eagles, 1984 Dallas Cowboys - Jim Covert, T – 1983-1990 Chicago Bears - *Bobby Dillon, S – 1952-59 Green Bay Packers - Cliff Harris, S – 1970-79 Dallas Cowboys - *Winston Hill, T – 1963-1976 New York Jets, 1977 Los Angeles Rams - *Alex Karras, DT – 1958-1962, 1964-1970 Detroit Lions - Donnie Shell, S – 1974-1987 Pittsburgh Steelers - *Duke Slater, T – 1922 Milwaukee Badgers, 1922-25 Rock Island Independents,1926-1931 Chicago Cardinals - *Mac Speedie, E – 1946-1952 Cleveland Browns [AAFC/NFL] - *Ed Sprinkle, DE/LB/E – 1944-1955 Chicago Bears To go fairly quick on these guys: - Carmichael was a 6'8" receiver in the 70's. I've always heard good things about him, so that seems fair that he's finally in. - Jimbo Covert is a bit of an oddity to me. He only played 8 seasons, starting at left tackle for the '85 Bears, and made two Pro-Bowls and two All-Pros. I've never heard him in the discussion of all-time offensive linemen, so this one seems weird, particularly with some of the guys who didn't make the list. - Cliff Harris was a good safety for Landry's Cowboys, with a bunch of Pro Bowls and All-Pros. Solid choice. - Winston Hill made 8 Pro Bowls back in the 60's and 70's, when it was a bit more of an honor than it was today. I've heard him regarded as an extremely good lineman from the late AFL/early merger days, so that seems reasonable. - Alex Karras is maybe better known today for everything he did after football (Webster, Blazing Saddles, etc), but I've often heard the main reason he didn't get consideration earlier is he was somewhat unrepentant about betting on games in the early 60's, and being suspended for the entire 1963 season. By comparison, Paul Hornung was suspended too, but he was the Golden Boy Halfback of Lombardi's Packers, so that helped his case later on. Karras was a great defensive tackle, but played for the Lions in the 50's and 60's, and was often listed along guys like the recently inducted Jerry Kramer among the biggest snubs by the HoF, so him being inducted feels long overdue. - Donnie Shell is in... because they needed more guys from the Steel Curtain? Okay, 5 Pro Bowls, 3 All Pros, was the starting Strong Safety for all four Steelers Super Bowls in the 70's... Yeah, that's actually almost a textbook resume for a Senior nominee. No big complaints here. - Bobby Dillon, Duke Slater, Mac Speedie, and Ed Sprinkle I know nothing about, and I'm too lazy to look them up. Guys from the 50's or earlier? Sure, why not. I'm actually running short on time, but I want to come back to this later to complain about guys that got snubbed from the Senior class (Branch & Craig), and do some write ups on the modern dudes.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:18
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zach thomas should get in this year or next or gently caress it
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Jan 16, 2020 16:24
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It's very dumb that it's so easy for mediocre coaches to get in just because they are best buds with all the current voters in the media. Also commissioners and owners should never be in unless they made a significant contribution to improving the league in a revolutionary way.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:26
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Benne posted:
i hope adrian wilson at least gets on the ballot.
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Jan 16, 2020 16:32
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Put cj2k in cowards
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Jan 16, 2020 16:35
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ANYWAY, the Senior dudes who didn't get in?! - Cliff Branch: He should have been in a short while ago, and sadly like Ken Stabler, died before he had a chance. Branch's numbers are very solid for the 1970's, a decade generally without great receiving numbers, and he set records for playoff games that were later broken by Jerry Rice. He really is another text book case of a perfect senior nominee, since he was only nominated as a normal player just once (2010, his last year prior to being Senior eligible), and the 70's Raiders probably deserve a bit more credit (gently caress you, Paul Zimmerman). - Roger Craig: So, if you go by pure rushing numbers, Craig isn't close. His best season he was 3rd in the NFL in rushing, he only had three 1,000 yard seasons, and his total career rushing yards puts him around guys like Priest Holmes, Gerald Riggs, Earnest Byner, and Herschel Walker. The key things with Craig is he started off as a fullback, leading blocking and splitting carries with guys like Wendell Tyler, and obviously, his role as a receiving back. He was the first player to get 1,000 rushing & 1,000 receiving yards in the same season, and was a pivotal part of the 49ers offense from 84 to 90, which included 3 Super Bowls and 4 seasons where the team lost only 1 or 2 games. He wasn't the biggest star on those teams, and most of those guys went into the Hall on their first crack, but he's very worthy of being included. - LaVern Dilweg, Ox Emerson, Cecil Isbell, Verne Lewellen, and Al Wistert: These guys are mostly from the 20's and 30's, so IDK, ask Belichick. Wistert made it into the 50's with the Eagles, so I'd heard of the name before, but I can't tell you loving poo poo about any of them. - Tommy Nobis: He was a really, really good linebacker in the 60's NFL. Why isn't he better known? Well, for starters, he played for the expansion Falcons. They had one winning season and never made the playoffs in his career. He also played the same position at mostly the same time as Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke. All of that combined to mean he was largely ignored or unknown by more casual fans, and was never going to get the same official accolades that those guys got. He finished his career with only 5 Pro Bowls and a single All Pro, although the Hall of Fame did include him on their All-Decade team from the 60's. He's a perfect example of a great player who spent his career on lovely teams, and he deserves to go in at some point. - Drew Pearson: 3 Pro Bowls, 3 All-Pros, and he pushed off for the Hail Mary against the Vikings in '75. He was another receiver of the 1970's who was very good, like the rest, his numbers are depressed compared to those before and after him. He also had his career end a bit early due to an injury suffered in a car crash. I'd personally put him slightly below a guy like Branch, but I'm also a Big Hall guy who is fine putting in tons of people, so I think he should go in at some point. He also single-handedly started the thing with former players insulting each other and other teams during the middle rounds of the NFL Draft in recent years, which is always loving amazing, so put him in for that too! And, finally, for the Modern-Era guys that we are still waiting to hear about... Steve Atwater, Safety: The guy who took the mantle of hard hitting safety from Ronnie Lott in the 1990's, Atwater was a key part of the 90's Broncos. He's been on the ballot for a while, and the HoF seems to be getting more open to safeties, but there always seem to be guys who are just as deserving. I'm not sure if they'll ever clear up the log jam at some positions, so he may be a Senior nominee down the line. Tony Boselli, Offensive Tackle: Benne touched on the issue of peak vs longevity, and every time his name comes up, support for him seems pretty universal at this point, which was not always the case. I think he's more likely to get in than I did four or five years ago, but I'm just not sure if it will be this year... Isaac Bruce, Wide Receiver: I like Bruce, who somehow seemed to slip under the radar as receiving numbers exploded again and again in the 2000's. I feel he'll get in at some point, as the Greatest Show on Turf only has 4 guys so far (Warner, Faulk, Pace, and Aeneas Williams from defence) with a few others that will be worthy, but I wonder if he and Holt will split the vote between the two, so neither gets in immediately... LeRoy Butler, Safety: Butler always struck me as really good, but never among the best in the NFL. He invented the Lambeau Leap (Although Robert Brooks is the one who popularized it), was a key cog on the mid-90's Packers, but even on this list I'd put him as the lowest safety. If he gets in soon, or before any of the other safeties already eligible, it'll be because Packers  connections.Alan Faneca, Guard: Excellent guard, but I'm not sure if he was better than Hutchinson. May have just been due to Hutch getting more name recognition due to his contract insanity. Toss up this year, as I think at least one goes in. Torry Holt, Wide Receiver: Holt was awesome for about eight or nine years, even as the rest of the Rams fell apart. Worthy, should go in, but I think him and Bruce may split the vote and they'll both have to wait a few years. Steve Hutchinson, Guard: Hutchinson was a monster guard, and got the narrative benefit due to the poison pill contracts that went back and forth between the Vikings and Seahawks. He'll get in, just a matter of time. Edgerrin James, Running Back: The kind of dirty secret to the mid-2000's Colts is that, while they won a Super Bowl the year after Edge left, they never really replaced just how effective their offense had worked with him as the back. Those teams from 2003-to-2005 were machines, with James running the stretch run and Peyton doing play action off it. Polian and Dungy don't rest the starters for months at a time and those teams probably do better in the playoffs. And keep in mind that James in 1999-2000 was even better before hurting his knee. I've always viewed him as a Senior nominee type, but he's a personal favorite, and with Marvin Harrison already in, Reggie Wayne eligible, and Peyton coming up very soon, I'd love to see him get in around the same time frame. John Lynch, Safety: Benne pretty much nailed this one. Lynch was great, and has the benefit of both media time and now being the GM for a really good team. He was worthy before, and remains so now, but very much has the narrative boost. Sam Mills, Linebacker: Man was a 5'9" inside linebacker who came out of the USFL, and was pretty much the heart and soul of every defense he was ever a part of. He's universally respected by those who played with and against him. The weakness of his case was he spent his peak in the USFL, then with the Dome Patrol Saints and expansion Panthers. The linebacking corps that he anchored was one of the greatest of all time, sending all four players to the Pro Bowl in 1992. But, the knock here was those Saints never won a playoff game, were pretty meh outside those linebackers, and never got much national attention. He spent a few years with the expansion Panthers, getting his only All-Pro nod, but still not being as well known nationally. He absolutely should be in the Hall. Troy Polamalu, Safety: I'm sure he'll be voted in, because he has everything in his favor and I really don't need to outline his career to anyone here... but I'd really prefer if he wasn't voted this year. gently caress the Steelers. Richard Seymour, Defensive Lineman: On one hand, gently caress the Patriots. On the other, he broke Ben Roethlisberger's nose. I'm conflicted. He's probably worthy, and the voters likely love them some  , so he's got a great chance. Zach Thomas, Linebacker: In a similar vein to Nobis and Mills, Thomas spent most of his career on some really good defenses for some not fully terrible, but not really good Dolphins teams. He was awesome, but also played in the AFC at the same time as Ray Lewis, and with Urlacher in the NFC, he likely missed out on some All-Pros despite being just as worthy but lacking name and team recognition. Put him in. Reggie Wayne, Wide Receiver: I love Reggie, I think he's absolutely worthy, I just don't think he gets in on the first crack ahead of a bunch of these other guys. He'll be inducted within the next four or five years. Bryant Young, Defensive Tackle: A defensive tackle from the 90's and 00's? Hell yeah. I don't remember him in as much detail, but he's another case that everyone speaks incredibly highly of him, and he played forever on San Francisco teams that, for much of his career, weren't the same machine they had been in the past. What I'd Like to See: Tony Boselli Isaac Bruce Torry Holt Steve Hutchinson Zach Thomas What I Think We'll Get: Alan Faneca John Lynch Troy Polamalu Richard Seymour Zach Thomas Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:It's very dumb that it's so easy for mediocre coaches to get in just because they are best buds with all the current voters in the media. I'm glad that they at least finally separated coaches/contributors from the players spots into their own thing, otherwise some of these guys would never get in. I thought Dungy was a reach when he went in, and I still feel that way. Cowher is maybe less of one, but I'd still say guys like Coryell and Holmgren had far bigger impacts on the field and other coaches than Dungy or Cowher did, but they were loved by the media, and have both been a part of it since they retired. If anything, as a Big Hall guy, I'd be fine if they increased the coaching/contributor spots to 3 a year, since a lot of these guys deserve recognition before they loving die (Coryell  ).I do agree on commissioners and owners, although with how infrequently some of those changes, the people who simply last forever without completely loving everything up eventually end up being considered undeservedly. hifi posted:i hope adrian wilson at least gets on the ballot. Same. Dude was awesome, but didn't get much recognition since the Cardinals were the Cardinals. With Warner in, Larry Fitzgerald being an absolute lock 5 years after he retired, maybe the voters will look at those teams more, giving Wilson an edge. His lack of awards and team success just screams "Senior Nominee" too me, but I'd hate for him to have to wait that long. Metapod posted:Put cj2k in cowards Peak vs Longevity Argument, Issue #9,651. Dude was amazing for a few years for some mostly crap Titans teams, and had a pretty decent half season with the Cardinals later on, but he faded away so fast, I'm not sure he'll get a shot anytime soon. Like, I had to check and was surprised he actually hung around until 2017, with his good Cardinals year being 2015. All of that, and his 2,000 yard season, feel like an eternity ago (Admittedly, peak CJ2K was 2009  ).
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Jan 16, 2020 20:03
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They've never really followed up on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrY0kUVkRYY Darth Brooks fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 01:38
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When it comes to peak/longevity, I feel like the peak guys have to have some truly transcendent, legendary years when they were on top, preferably winning a ring and/or Player of the Year awards. That's what eventually got Terrell Davis in, and it's why Gronk, Kuechly and Megatron will get in despite retiring young. I'm actually surprised Patrick Willis missed the final ballot this year, since he definitely fits into that category.
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Jan 17, 2020 02:54
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Cowher and Johnson going in when Coryell and Flores were right there is just loving bizarre to me. I'm not sure Cowher should even be there at all.
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Jan 17, 2020 14:20
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Fenrir posted:Cowher and Johnson going in when Coryell and Flores were right there is just loving bizarre to me. I'm not sure Cowher should even be there at all. Cowboys and Steelers hth.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:22
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Jimmy Johnson built a dynasty overnight. He belongs in the Hall.
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Jan 17, 2020 15:35
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I'm fairly sure if Zach Thomas had simply played for a better team he'd already be in. He was just as good as Ray Lewis, he just wasn't surrounded by elite defenders like Lewis was, the only other good defender I can name from his prime for the Dolphins is Terrell Buckley. I also think Edge belongs in the hall, he was incredible, same for Pat Willis (something of a homer opinion, but he has the same situation as Zach, IMO). Agreed about Jimmy. He's a schmuck but he's had an amazing career. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 15:52
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I'm fairly sure if Zach Thomas had simply played for a better team he'd already be in. He was just as good as Ray Lewis, he just wasn't surrounded by elite defenders like Lewis was, the only other good defender I can name from his prime for the Dolphins is Terrell Buckley. Jason Taylor didn’t come to mind?
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Jan 17, 2020 15:54
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Amy Pole Her posted:Jason Taylor didn’t come to mind? Weirdly, no. I stand by my statement about Zach likely being in the Hall if he'd been with a better run organization, though. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 15:55
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They were even within a year of each other’s draft class! I agree with you there. Those dolphin teams had decent press for having such a great defense, but everyone agreed it was Thomas who conducted the whole thing. Peyton Manning posted:The most unnerving thing about playing Miami is Zach Thomas calling out all of your plays. He caused the most problems for me of any player I ever faced,” said the NFL’s third all-time touchdown distributor. Jason Taylor also credited Zach Thomas with half his sacks, saying Zach constantly screaming what the play was right before the snap helped Jason Taylor jump snaps and go straight pass rush
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Jan 17, 2020 15:59
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Now THAT'S an endorsement. When a guy famous for calling audibles and being an elite QB is saying you gave him fits, that's telling
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Jan 17, 2020 16:03
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Now THAT'S an endorsement. When a guy famous for calling audibles and being an elite QB is saying you gave him fits, that's telling He just wasn’t flashy and he was always overshadowed by Marino. I have a straight up bias for Zach Thomas. When he was drafted, my “uncle” John was still with the team in an advisory capacity for linebackers (he retired a few years prior to Zach) and he said Zach was the nicest guy he’s ever coached. Called him for updates etc and help. When Zach was finally named to his first pro bowl he sent Uncle John (and like 50 other coaches/friends) a nice framed photo of the clipping from the Miami Herald, as well as a handwritten letter to each specific person thanking them for their help in his accomplishment. That’s such humility and grace you can’t help but cheer for him
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Jan 17, 2020 16:08
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gently caress, imagine if the Dolphins had done a better job of building around Dan Coulda been worse, though, the Jets could have drafted him.
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Jan 17, 2020 16:15
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Put Edge in god damnit. Five times a finalist is enough. The first time he was a finalist I didn't think he deserved to be in but sometime in the past few years I've looked at what he did versus and what other backs in the hall did, and he's absolutely deserving. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jan 17, 2020 |
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Jan 17, 2020 17:19
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My argument for Sam Mills is that he's one of four linebackers to have at least 1200 combined tackles, 20 sacks, and 20 forced fumbles: Mills, Clay Matthew's (the original). And yeah, the Saints didn't win any playoff games, but they also didn't have a winning season for their first 40 years. They had five in his 10 years with the team, including winning 11 or more four times. They also made the playoffs four of his ten years which, again, is incredible given what the team was before his arrival. Hell, they went 10-6 and 9-7 and didn't make the playoffs either time. They won 12 games twice and were the wildcard both times.
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Jan 18, 2020 02:24
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https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/1223715590247829504?s=19 Good choice and long overdue, but that probably doesn't bode well for Lynch
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Feb 1, 2020 22:41
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Edge is in e: Polamalu too D-LINK fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Feb 1, 2020 |
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Feb 1, 2020 22:50
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That's Seahawks Legend Edgerrin James to you sir 
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Feb 1, 2020 23:01
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https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1223731714247270401 what is it with receivers never getting in immediately
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Feb 1, 2020 23:18
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Hutchinson rounds out the class
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Feb 1, 2020 23:21
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I guess the O-linemen splitting votes was the best thing to happen for Edge
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Feb 1, 2020 23:33
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no Boselli
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Feb 1, 2020 23:47
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fartknocker posted:Isaac Bruce, Wide Receiver: I like Bruce, who somehow seemed to slip under the radar as receiving numbers exploded again and again in the 2000's. I feel he'll get in at some point, as the Greatest Show on Turf only has 4 guys so far (Warner, Faulk, Pace, and Aeneas Williams from defence) with a few others that will be worthy, but I wonder if he and Holt will split the vote between the two, so neither gets in immediately... Benne posted:When it comes to peak/longevity, I feel like the peak guys have to have some truly transcendent, legendary years when they were on top, preferably winning a ring and/or Player of the Year awards. That's what eventually got Terrell Davis in, and it's why Gronk, Kuechly and Megatron will get in despite retiring young.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:43
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I’m kinda meh on Bruce but I get it.
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Feb 2, 2020 00:51
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Vertical Lime posted:https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1223731714247270401 The voters are largely dumb sports writers. Out of curiosity, I looked up the list of receivers in the HoF. The only ones to go in first ballot, period, were Randy Moss, Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, Paul Warfield, Lance Alworth, and Raymond Berry. I've heard a lo of theories as to why all the guys from the 80's, 90's, and now 00's have had to wait years before they go in, but none of it really makes sense. An underlying theme seems to be that as passing numbers have exploded over the past 30 years, every year that passes the numbers from the previous years look less and less impressive. Aside from Moss and Rice, just to look at the other (semi) recent guys who did go in: - Terrell Owens: I forget exactly when he retired (Last season played was 2010, but he tried with the Seahawks the next year, so his retirement may not have been till 2012?), so his wait may have only been one extra year, maybe two, but we all know the media stories and off the field bullshit is why TO didn't get in sooner. - Marvin Harrison: Again, I forget exactly when he retired (His last season was 2008), but he still waited two or three years. He was generally quiet, may have killed some people, and the Colts remained great without him (And Reggie Wayne took over), so it was easy to kind of forget him after he was done playing. - Tim Brown: Largely played for crappy Raider teams, with crappy QBs, and never got an All-Pro nod. Great numbers, but of all the 90's guys, he probably had the least hardware and accolades, which could be why he stalled for five or six years... - Andre Reed: Him waiting almost a decade was dumb as hell, but he's another example of the numbers that were very good for playing in Buffalo in the early 90's looking far, far less impressive than others. He also didn't quite have the same raw numbers as other dudes. - Cris Carter: Kind of a dumbass media type, but also really awesome numbers? Why he was made to wait so long (6 years?) everyone outside the voters thought was stupid as hell, and was widely discussed every year that he was passed over. With Issac Bruce going in this year, he kinda falls somewhere in a category like Marvin Harrison or Tim Brown. He was generally quite, and while he had some great numbers and won a ring, he kinda slipped from memory as the Rams fell apart in the 2000's, while other guys put up massive, massive numbers. We'll probably end up with similar discussions of Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Andre Johnson, and Anquan Bolden (All are in the same area for yards and receptions as Bruce, but with fewer touchdowns) in the next few years. Spring Break My Heart posted:Obviously Bruce got in, but "only" 4 guys? Bruce makes 5, and Holt should be in at some point as well, and I think they both should have gone in a while ago. You can probably make an outside case for London Fletcher as well. Also put Ricky Proehl in for my amusement. fartknocker fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Feb 2, 2020 |
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Feb 2, 2020 01:01
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london fletcher is the exact same player as brian urlacher except he didnt play mlb for the bears so wont get in
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Feb 2, 2020 01:16
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