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Oh boy here we go again MarySue
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Jan 13, 2021 20:04
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Fedule posted:I think it's, just, like, sometimes a thing really catches people's imaginations even when the thing isn't really in and of itself much of a rich story experience. Building on this, when it comes to fandom I tend to distinguish between a thing as it is and the DREAM of a thing. This is something I think I understood for a long time but only really formulated coherently years back during the excellent Avalon Code LP (Christ, that was nearly a decade ago now) where the game had an incredible pitch that the actual gameplay and story didn't even come close to living up to. And yet that game had a small but very dedicated fan base who were truly enamored of it. The game was nothing special, the DREAM of the game, however, was absolutely fantastic and there were people willing to love it not for what it was but for what they imagined it could have been. There is something in the process of the willing suspension of disbelief where a property can be more than it physically is. Look at Japanese tokusatsu like Super Sentai for an instance of this: you know during the action scenes what you're really watching is really a bunch of actors dubbing over stuntmen wearing goofy spandex costumes doing fake fights with plastic weapons, but you also are watching a superhero show where larger-than-life characters with superpowers and magic weapons are fighting to defend the earth. Or look at tokusatsu's American counterpart, pro wrestling. Pro wrestling makes no sense in absolutely any way as a competitive sport, and it's been no secret for decades that the personalities on screen are functionally actors performing staged fights, but when it's working pro wrestling is still this exciting spectacle of heroes and villains battling it out for dominance in the ring. And Pokémon is one of those properties, like Avalon Code, where the distance between the thing and the dream of the thing is especially palpable. Pokémon as a game property is fascinating because in many respects it's very retro, if you think about it the core gameplay has not changed in 25 years. There have certainly been many quality-of-life improvements to the game over the years (I for one do not miss HM's) but it is STILL a turn-based RPG with the same hard and fast limits, one action per turn, four moves per Pokémon, six Pokémon per player. It doesn't matter how many Pokémon they create, how many types there are, or how many moves exist, it is still by default a one-on-one with four moves and six Pokémon. And I don't mean to say this is necessarily a bad thing, but it's one of the reasons why this LP even exists in the first place. Outside of Pokémon's very simple 8-bit style of gameplay there is an entire massive world with hundreds and hundreds of incredibly varied animal things in all shapes and all sizes and that means further setting ramifications. If something is true then it is true in its consequences and that means even along with all of their various cute monster friends there must be an entire world of humans and human characters and human stories to parallel with the Pokémon. Is it really a surprise that Pokémon has as much fanfiction as it does? Something hugely popular naturally draws fans and fan works, especially if it has a world ready to be tapped, a big old dream of a thing ready to be dreamed. Over the course of the games, and the anime, and the manga, and the toys, and the TCG, and the failed TFG, and the merchandise, and the promo videos, and the movies the world of Pokémon became vast indeed, it may be one of the largest settings ever created. And so in a series where the core gameplay has always stayed the same but the world has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that there are dozens of fan games all itching to fill out the world in their own way with their own writing and their own themes. Of course there's an irony in all this it's in the fact that these starry eyed dreamers so often choose to create fan games to try and embody the world they imagine. Again, I do think part of the reason why Pokémon is such a ripe field for derivative work is BECAUSE the games have such specific restrictions. There is a certain irony, therefore, to creating a Pokémon game to try and do things that aren't done in Pokémon game. There's also a danger in it, if your motivation is to do what the official games don't there is a real chance you'll fall flat on your face. In the worst case you end up with Pokémon Reborn, which was a profoundly disgusting catastrophe that fails both as a game (who remembers The Quest to Push One Rock?) and as a story (who here remembers the psueicide lesbians?) Anyways, Madoka
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Jan 13, 2021 20:10
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This has the potential to be  or  and I'm here for either. Let's go with Dark Skin and Madoka. Also is it just me or are the protagonists wearing Santa suits?
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Jan 13, 2021 21:06
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And the results are in!quote:Gender: Very close on that name count! But the winner is girl, light skin, pink hair, my choice of clothes color, named Madoka. Update coming in a bit.
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Jan 13, 2021 21:36
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Update 2: Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen  Oh neat, Madoka's doing what I wish I were doing right now.   Hoopa then blinks into existence in Madoka's bedroom, before running over to her and jumping up and down excitedly.  Then it portals us to...   A mysterious lab.  Scientist: Two in one day...?   : What are you standing around for? Grab her! : Zeph is going to freak out when he hears about this... Well, indeed, it seems Madoka is unconscious in a warehouse.   Hoopa again approaches Madoka, jumping in excitement before...   Hoopa teleports behind him.   : What did I tell you about travelling through my Space Cube? Just because you can't travel through your rings anymore, that does not give you the right to use my Cube without permission! And you were the one responsible for bringing these two here? Hoopa bounces again. : I don't know what you wanted with them, but you've been a nuisance ever since I found you on that beach 16 years ago! I may not be your true "guardian", but I'm your Trainer now! And you will obey me! These two won't rescue you from me!The hooded guy recalls Hoopa. : What a pain... And then he leaves. I do wonder what the he means by "you can't travel through your rings anymore" because it seems Hoopa did that just fine to fetch Madoka right from her bed. Also, that confirms that this hooded guy is the same one from the opening cutscene.  But in other news, we finally gain control over Madoka! Thankfully the game is set to auto-run from the start, so we start at a sprint.  And sprint all the way down to the lower left corner, where we can follow a patch to pick up a Potion.  It seems that Space Cube that our hooded friend was referring to is our Bag. It's called "Cube" in the pause menu as well.   Looking at Madoka's trainer card gives us her full sprite and also thankfully shows that this game only has 8 gyms.  I check this door because there is a precious, precious Poke Ball inside, but no dice, as you would expect.  To the upper right, there's this dude. But he seems to be too conked-out to talk to at the moment.  So instead Madoka loots another Potion from the upper righthand corner of the map.  Grunt: I'm under strict orders to keep you locked up. I then rub Madoka's face on every surface in here because I can't figure out what to do next before I reach the boy in the corner again.   : What's this? There's something written on his shirt. It's his name! It is... And then we're prompted to name him, which makes me go "uhh" before I put in something and move on.  Yeah, sure.  He finally wakes up.   : Huh? What's going on? Where am I? : ... Oh, wait... You're that kid from down the road. Madoka, right? Do you know what we're doing here?: What? You don't know? So you must be in the same situation as I am... Have you seen any sort of exit around? ... :Take me there. I'm going to try and break through. He follows us the way that companions in the Gen 4 games do.  : Who do you think you are? Do you think you can get away with keeping us locked up in here? You better let us through right now, or you're going to suffer! Grunt: I'm under strict orders to keep you locked up. The Grunt releases an Inkay.   Grunt: Keep away from this door, and you won't regret it.  :We'd better look for another way out of here.I once again rub my face against everything because I'm an idiot until we get to the center of the map, where we hear some Pokemon calls.  : It sounded like some Pokemon are trapped in that cage over there! Let's go check it out. Well, there's only one real option when it comes to trapped Pokemon... And out pops a Gible, a Larvitar, and a Beldum.  : If we each take one and put them in these Poke Balls I picked up, we can use them to attack the guard and escape! Give me a second... I have to apply democracy... So tell me, thread: What's our rival's name? (seven characters) Do we choose Gible, Larvitar, or Beldum? What's our starter's nickname? (ten characters) hopeandjoy fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 21, 2021 |
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Jan 13, 2021 22:49
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Oh boy, pseudolegendary starters. Sure hope their movepools and evolution levels aren't dire! Beldum named Coldsteel seems sufficiently edgy.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:04
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Gible named Bibble.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:05
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Already there's threatening direct attacks with Pokemon and assertions of inflicting suffering. And our protagonist was literally yanked into the plot out of nowhere. The rival's name oughta be Billy, I'm voting for Beldum as our starter, and I vote our starter's name be Durex.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:06
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Gonna vote for a Gible starter, no clue on the name cuz I'm terrible at naming things.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:10
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Don't care about names but throwing my hat in for Gible Interesting choice, I would put Gible and Beldum above Larvitar but this is a cute idea.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:12
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For what it's worth, I went with a Larvitar. The other two seemed way too obvious a choice. I won't bother voting for a starter. There's been no difference at all so far in terms of "Edgy" vs. "Normal". I thought for sure that "Edgy" would have gone with something other than "suffer" as a threat. Also, I decided to play along on "Difficult", or whatever the difficulty above Vanilla is.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:13
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Leraika posted:Beldum named Coldsteel seems sufficiently edgy.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:13
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A Larvitar named Gojira with a rival named Bueller
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Jan 13, 2021 23:14
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They must have changed these three, because Gible named Nibbles is the only real choice otherwise. It gets actual moves throughout the games, has good Atk and Spd, while Pupitar is slow and evolves at 55, while Beldum is miserable for 25 levels.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:21
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Going with Larvitar for the starter. whatever people want for the rivals name and starters nickname.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:24
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Crosspeice posted:They must have changed these three, because Gible named Nibbles is the only real choice otherwise. It gets actual moves throughout the games, has good Atk and Spd, while Pupitar is slow and evolves at 55, while Beldum is miserable for 25 levels. This is what I was thinking too, Gible is actually useable while the other two look like they'd be extremely painful. I'm sure the hack has changed their movesets around to try to prevent this, but still. As for the rival's name, eh, Filler has grown on me honestly. Let's keep him.
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Jan 13, 2021 23:33
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Rival named Filler and Gible named Nibbles
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Jan 13, 2021 23:45
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Space Kablooey posted:Rival named Filler and Gible named Nibbles Going to Nth this because it's great.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:41
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I'll add one more vote for Filler/Gible/Nibbles.
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Jan 14, 2021 00:46
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Current poll status:quote:Rival Name: Unless there's a ton of activity, I'll probably close the poll in the morning tomorrow. For the record, I decided that documentation didn't count as spoilers for me and uh. Evolution levels are unchanged. Beldum's moves have been made slightly less suicidal but still awful. hopeandjoy fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 03:53
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hopeandjoy posted:Evolution levels are unchanged. Beldum's moves have been made slightly less suicidal but still awful. I looked it up after reading this, and apparently Beldum can't even learn TM moves in the current games. That's hosed up
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Jan 14, 2021 04:52
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Gible named Nibbles seems to be the only choice. Larvitar and Beldum is just torture.
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Jan 14, 2021 05:27
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I also vote for Nibbles the Gible. I must say that I'm pretty keen on the UI so far, especially where we get an item description popping up when we find something new. Not sure how exactly we're carrying around a cube as an inventory, though.
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Jan 14, 2021 06:18
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 I'm the sunglasses badge
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Jan 14, 2021 06:32
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Procrastine posted:
Let's Play Pokémon Unbound: Spheal With It Quackles fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 06:45
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Space Kablooey posted:Rival named Filler and Gible named Nibbles This is really the only option, the other two will be complete deadweight for quite a while even if they do end up good eventually. Quackles posted:
Also this.
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Jan 14, 2021 09:55
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Black Robe posted:This is really the only option, the other two will be complete deadweight for quite a while even if they do end up good eventually. Can confirm that they are total dead weight, at least as far as Larvitar is concerned. Larvitar has gotten me wiped out at least 3 times so far and I've only reached the first town/gym. Trying to train up a replacement in this game is ridiculous because of the pitiful EXP and Money payouts (especially money, as it means you have to constantly run to the Pokemon Center after every single battle), so if you start with Larvitar then expect to take the Souls approach of throwing yourself at walls until they break. Solitair posted:I must say that I'm pretty keen on the UI so far, especially where we get an item description popping up when we find something new. Not sure how exactly we're carrying around a cube as an inventory, though. The cube thing will be explained probably in OP's next update. As for the UI, I agree with you on that. Having the item you just picked up immediately tell you what it is or what it does is a nice quality of life improvement. I'm not much farther into the game than OP, but the game does some other tiny things that are really appreciated and that I wish the main games would consider. Fan games do tend to have good ideas in them. It's just a pity that they are buried under so much awfulness most of the time. Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 14:19
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Poll is closed! With five votes, our Rival’s name will remain Filler. With twelve votes, our starter will be Gible. And finally, with eight votes, its name will be Nibbles. And boy am I glad everyone decided to be nice to me. Pseudolegendary starters is one of those things that sounds nice on paper... and completely breaks down mechanically, as it completely throws out the balance that starter Pokémon are supposed to have. While it’s not as important in a fangame that the grass-water-fire triangle exist as an easy to understand tutorial to type advantages, it’s still odd to have a dragon/ground, rock/ground, and steel/psychic group. Additionally, Larvitar and Beldum are garbage to use because they aren’t really meant to be used. In the generations they’re introduced in, you can’t get them until the postgame and they’re meant as a reward for getting that far, on top of the “starting weak and getting super strong” thing. Their evolution levels are extremely high, their stats are meh, and in Beldum’s case, their movepool is a puddle that’s almost finished evaporating. Gible is at least a little more useable, mostly because of the three it’s the only one you can obtain during the main plot in the generation it was introduced. Meanwhile actual starters are designed to be solid Pokémon you can always fall back on, who purposefully evolve at predictable levels (16 and 36, on average) to give you a power boost as you enter the early midgame and lategame respectively. You can’t get that from something like Larvitar that evolves at 30 and then at 55.
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Jan 14, 2021 15:21
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Psycho Knight posted:Can confirm that they are total dead weight, at least as far as Larvitar is concerned. Larvitar has gotten me wiped out at least 3 times so far and I've only reached the first town/gym. Trying to train up a replacement in this game is ridiculous because of the pitiful EXP and Money payouts (especially money, as it means you have to constantly run to the Pokemon Center after every single battle), so if you start with Larvitar then expect to take the Souls approach of throwing yourself at walls until they break. hopeandjoy posted:You can't get that from something like Larvitar that evolves at 30 and then at 55. Also, I'm just waiting on the game to suddenly decide to have the first Gym be like, the Ice Gym, so Gible actually screws you just as hard as Larvitar/Beldum, just in a different way. MagusofStars fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 15:43
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I was going to vote for Beldum, but then again, my only experience with him was from the spinoff games (Pokemon Conquest, Mystery Dungeons and the TCG). I... only really played through Blue and Leafgreen. I just like the little floating arm that evolved into a Crab robot. Edit: I don't mean he's actually a Crab robot, just that's the first thing that comes to mind when I see the four legs stemming from the corners of his body and the recessed eyes. Randalor fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 15:46
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Gible does have the advantage of being the second earliest encounterable pseudo legendary so it has to have a more balanced move set.
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Jan 14, 2021 15:47
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hopeandjoy posted:You can’t get that from something like Larvitar that evolves at 30 and then at 55. The one thing I will say about this is that the game starts you a little higher than normal (at least on the difficulty that I played), so there isn't quite as much of a gap between starter and mid-evolution. That said, you are right about why pseudo-legendaries are terrible choices for the starters. They aren't meant to be used like regular Pokemon. They are meant to be bred, at which point you are far enough into the game that you can easily power level them to their good forms. I'm kind of stuck with Larvitar (although I guess I could replay to the point I'm at now, since I've only played for about 2 hours), but it's pretty sad that the heavy hitters of my current team are stuff like Hoothoot and Combee. Heavy hitters in this case meaning "can survive more than 1 attack." MagusofStars posted:I have to assume Beldum is even more deadweight because checking Bulbapedia, in most Gens, it apparently learns nothing except either Take Down or Tackle until evolving at level 20 - no other moves via leveling and not even any TM/HM's. I think Beldum in this game has some kind of FakeMove that makes it slightly more usable. I can't remember what the name of the move was (I just remember taking a hit from it). But yes, I'm pretty sure it still has the same extremely limited move pool as in the actual games. That said, every starter is dead weight at the very beginning of this game. I think hopeandjoy's next update will show you why. Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 15:48
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Beldum was given a new steel move and Flash on top of its canon Tackle. It has no other level up moves though.
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Jan 14, 2021 16:04
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That's the reason I voted Beldum; just to see what the hack did with it. Probably for the best that we ended up with Gible, who is a cute round boy or girl.
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Jan 14, 2021 16:22
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hopeandjoy posted:Beldum was given a new steel move and Flash on top of its canon Tackle. It has no other level up moves though. I feel like if you have to bend over backwards to make your plan work, it may not be a good plan to start with. Everyone else has gone over why psuedos as starters is a poor idea, but to shoehorn extra moves into a pokemon like Beldum to make it work is really silly. I'd say switch Beldum out with another pokemon, but they probably didn't want to double up on dragon types with Gible and another one. Hence sticking a new move on Beldum, just to really force that square peg in to the round hole.
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Jan 14, 2021 21:04
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I see it the opposite way; if you're making beldum a starter, go the whole distance and give it a real movepool.
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Jan 14, 2021 22:30
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Arcade Rabbit posted:they probably didn't want to double up on dragon types with Gible and another one Larvitar and Gible are both Ground, so I don't think that was a consideration.
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Jan 14, 2021 23:28
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Dragonatrix posted:Larvitar and Gible are both Ground, so I don't think that was a consideration. Ah, but Tyranitar isn't! And only the final evolutions matter, clearly.
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Jan 14, 2021 23:51
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Dragonatrix posted:Larvitar and Gible are both Ground, so I don't think that was a consideration. To be fair, though, Tyranitar is Rock/Dark.
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Jan 14, 2021 23:54
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Arcade Rabbit posted:Hence sticking a new move on Beldum, just to really force that square peg in to the round hole. Excuse me, I think you'll find that Beldum is a round peg
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Jan 15, 2021 00:30
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