|
LaSquida posted:Wait, can you really not use that card... Clearly the winning strategy is to start wearing kilts.
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2021 15:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 08:37 |
|
|
More MZ drama MetaZoo strikes again
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2021 20:24
|
|
|
PleasantDirge posted:More MZ drama This owns Long story short: supposedly the manufacturer is a place that makes counterfeit Magic cards
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
And has thousands of 'spare' kickstarter exclusive strictly limited edition cards lying around also.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
F&B and Metazoo are 100% grifts and nobody should buy them, but that video is worthless clickbait.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:F&B and Metazoo are 100% grifts and nobody should buy them, but that video is worthless clickbait. Yeah. I know the capability of your printers being able to print a sheet of your ultrarare Metazoo cards is worrying, but there's a difference between extra cards being in circulation and your printers having a box of extra limited edition cards as a representative sample of their foils.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:F&B and Metazoo are 100% grifts and nobody should buy them, but that video is worthless clickbait. Eh, at least F&B is a fun game to play.
|
|
#
?
Nov 2, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
Randalor posted:Eh, at least F&B is a fun game to play. apparently nobody actually knows how to play it though https://twitter.com/matthewfoulkes/status/1454935548964048899 https://twitter.com/matthewfoulkes/status/1455594870685454338 https://fabtcg.com/articles/update-uk-national-championships/ quote:Thank you to the team at Living Realms for hosting the UK National Championships and all the players who attended the event. bonus content: https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2018/09/matthew-foulkes-suspended-for-18-months-for-attempting-to-steal-flooded-strand-promo-mtg/
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 01:50
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:apparently nobody actually knows how to play it though This isn't the first time as something happened in one of the other recent tournaments on stream and IIRC the same person won the entire thing. From what I can tell the major tournaments in the US are getting fewer and fewer people and the prizes are garbage. 1st place in the national championship gets a whopping $1500.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 02:32
|
|
|
triple sulk posted:This isn't the first time as something happened in one of the other recent tournaments on stream and IIRC the same person won the entire thing. They are deliberately hiding the prize payouts for the National championships. It's supposed to have a total pool of $50,000, which extrapolated from their $10,000 "The Calling" Pool is probably in the neighborhood of $5,000 or so for first. However the real value is getting paid in
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 02:42
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:They are deliberately hiding the prize payouts for the National championships. It's supposed to have a total pool of $50,000, which extrapolated from their $10,000 "The Calling" Pool is probably in the neighborhood of $5,000 or so for first. However the real value is getting paid in The UK stream showed $1500 for first place and $1000 for the runner up, but either way and to your point they're probably assuming that the gold cold foils are somehow worth another ten grand or something on the secondary market.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 02:51
|
|
|
triple sulk posted:The UK stream showed $1500 for first place and $1000 for the runner up, but either way and to your point they're probably assuming that the gold cold foils are somehow worth another ten grand or something on the secondary market. Correct. The UK prize pool was only $10k. I believe under their Pro Tour plan, qualified individuals also get a $500 appearance fee regardless of placement.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
It’s possible the historical moment is weird enough that FAB will buck the trend, but my experience is that it’s overwhelmingly bad strategy to quickly go to big payouts like that. You tend to successfully bribe some sharks and dissatisfied Magic pros to play your game for a little bit but don’t tend to develop the casual play groundswell that actually sustains a game. Magic’s pro scene was healthy because the casual scene is huge, not vice versa.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 07:20
|
|
|
Anyone who looked at Magic cutting their Pro Tour and decimating their OP program while growing revenue at record pace for a decade straight and decided to make their business plan the exact opposite is not someone you should ever trust with your money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 07:41
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Anyone who looked at Magic cutting their Pro Tour and decimating their OP program while growing revenue at record pace for a decade straight and decided to make their business plan the exact opposite is not someone you should ever trust with your money. Magic did that after the game had blown up though. Cutting their OP program left a big opening in the market and I don't think it's entirely foolhardy for FAB to pounce on that as a selling point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 14:04
|
|
|
LeafHouse posted:Magic did that after the game had blown up though. Cutting their OP program left a big opening in the market and I don't think it's entirely foolhardy for FAB to pounce on that as a selling point. I agree it looks good as a bullet point or whatever but the reality is your niche ccg startup is not going to have the revenue to support it. If there weren't enough aspiring mtg grinders to make the pro tour a worthy marketing expense, then how is F&B going to land more whales with 1% of the audience.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 14:24
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:I agree it looks good as a bullet point or whatever but the reality is your niche ccg startup is not going to have the revenue to support it. If there weren't enough aspiring mtg grinders to make the pro tour a worthy marketing expense, then how is F&B going to land more whales with 1% of the audience. Honest question, what exactly would you do in LSS's situation? Considering that OP also covered things like "providing prize support for FLGS events" and small store tournaments like that are how you build up local player bases. While I don't like LSS associating with Rudy early on, it made sense for a small game company to promote their game, and at least the promo card they made for him was an obvious joke. The final match of the tournament was dumb, but from what I understand, it was more the one player was being an rear end in a top hat about the rules and kept borderline cheating rather than players making mistakes (which at least is understandable at the end of a tournament when you're tired and mentally exhausted). I mean, at least it's not to the level of Magic's "Saying you're going to combat means you miss all of your "At start of combat triggers" ruling a few years back. MetaZoo on the other hand... yup, still certain that's just a gimmick rather than an actual game. You play it a few times, giggle at the silly cards, then never touch it again.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 14:56
|
|
|
How do you borderline cheat? Angle shooting as gently caress? I thought fab was a one card per player alternating game, how do you cheat that?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 15:42
|
|
|
little munchkin posted:I agree it looks good as a bullet point or whatever but the reality is your niche ccg startup is not going to have the revenue to support it. If there weren't enough aspiring mtg grinders to make the pro tour a worthy marketing expense, then how is F&B going to land more whales with 1% of the audience. The question isn't "how can a small game afford OP" it's "was OP important to the success of MTG when it was in its infancy and does it make sense for FAB to make a similar play now that MTG has backed off OP" Even if people aren't buying cards expressly for large tournaments the existence of those tournaments helps advertise and legitimize the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 15:48
|
|
|
PleasantDirge posted:More MZ drama It's not figuratively a pokemon knock-off. It's a literal pokemon knock-off too!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 15:52
|
|
|
ilmucche posted:How do you borderline cheat? Angle shooting as gently caress? There's a sometimes annoying number of triggers and things going on even if the board state itself doesn't build up all that much, so it could have to do with that. The rules are sometimes way too complicated (or at least confusing) for a game that's a couple years old.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:It's not figuratively a pokemon knock-off. My long running assumption has been that the second any actual growth occurs for the game, Nintendo/The Pokemon Company send a C&D and everything gets shut down instantly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 15:54
|
|
|
triple sulk posted:My long running assumption has been that the second any actual growth occurs for the game, Nintendo/The Pokemon Company send a C&D and everything gets shut down instantly. Nah. The game's more YGO than Pokemon.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 15:56
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Nah. The game's more YGO than Pokemon.  Looks like Pokemon to me
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:00
|
|
|
Unless we're talking about the actual game itself, which then maybe it is, but no one actually plays it and I think that includes the creator
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:02
|
|
|
Tangentially related, Steve Aoki is absolutely in on the pump and dump right now with the TCGPlayer partnership https://www.tcgplayer.com/featured-collections/steve-aoki This is all gonna tank hard soon, isn't it, especially given that Celebrations is probably going to be printed into the ground.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:05
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Nah. The game's more YGO than Pokemon. The video they posted showed the production company with their fake Bulbasaurs
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:13
|
|
|
ilmucche posted:How do you borderline cheat? Angle shooting as gently caress? I haven't seen the game in question, but apparently Foulkes was doing things like playing with the die he was using as a counter on a card on his opponents turn, and when he realized he missed putting counters on cards, he would add the counters without asking/notifying his opponent. Stuff like that that, in small-scale local event, your opponent would PROBABLY be fine with you going back and changing things if it didn't affect the turn (the Spring Tunic, for example, requires 3 tokens that get added one-a-turn to be able to use its effect. After a long day at a tournament, it's easy to overlook adding the counter at the start of each turn, and if it's turn 1 or 2, it literally doesn't change anything)
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:22
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:Anyone who looked at Magic cutting their Pro Tour and decimating their OP program while growing revenue at record pace for a decade straight and decided to make their business plan the exact opposite is not someone you should ever trust with your money. So I just got lost in this discussion here. What is this initialism for OP program?
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:23
|
|
|
Drowning Rabbit posted:So I just got lost in this discussion here. What is this initialism for OP program? Organized Play - Tournaments/Judging
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Drowning Rabbit posted:So I just got lost in this discussion here. What is this initialism for OP program? Organized Play, basically a structure for a professional tour/eSports system
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:25
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:Organized Play, basically a structure for a professional tour/eSports system Be fair, it also covers smaller-scale events like in-store play and small tournaments. It's not just for the pro tour and export group.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 16:31
|
|
|
Drowning Rabbit posted:So I just got lost in this discussion here. What is this initialism for OP program? Organized Play, while it can cover anything from your local store holding a game night to the most cutthroat protour, generally it is used only to refer to events sanctioned by the company itself. Usually the company puts out promos. Magic sort of cheated with their DCI system which made just about everything a form of OP.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
Sequencing and timing of triggers and the equivalent of MtG's stack and priority passing is absolutely an issue with FaB right now because most people still don't know how it works, including judges. A lot of players are coming over from MtG and treat it like it works exactly the same way with tons of assumptions, and as already mentioned there's a lot of board state tracking and triggers on a given turn so in conjunction with people not knowing the letter of the law the end result is an ideal environment for angle shooting assholes. There are unquestionably harsh growing pains from them aggressively jumping into organized play while simultaneously attracting a very win-at-all-costs competitive style crowd.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
LeafHouse posted:Magic did that after the game had blown up though. Cutting their OP program left a big opening in the market and I don't think it's entirely foolhardy for FAB to pounce on that as a selling point. It being a “big opening in the market” assumes that money-driven top level play actually generates revenue. Unless you can get a lot of sponsors somehow, it just doesn’t - it’s a marketing expense. There’s no opening in the market because it’s not a product you sell. Organized play in general can drive sales, and having a tied-in top level can drive grassroots play, but doing it top down like that just lights money on fire.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 00:04
|
|
|
LSS's rules committee released their findings on the Nationals tournament. The TL;DR is that Foulkes was issued a Formal Warning for, as I chose to interpret the wording, "Being a dick". Basically, Round 1, he missed a trigger that put a token into play and discreetly put it into play without saying anything. Literally next turn, his opponent missed a similar trigger that put a different token into play, asked Foulkes if he could add it after the fact, and Foulkes called a judge on him. The misplays are a "Eh, people make mistakes" situation, which is fair, I think (they even say "ask any player and they can probsbly list at least 1 misplay they made in a tournament setting). People aren't beep-boop robots that can keep track of everything going on, especially in a tournament setting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 14:52
|
|
|
Randalor posted:LSS's rules committee released their findings on the Nationals tournament. Discreetly putting it in into play and then not letting the opponent do the same is literally cheating. Yes the game might be complicated but if you have a habit of making beneficial whoopsies on your own stuff but have an eagle eye on when your opponent goofs, it's suspicious as hell. I'd be incredibly leery of getting involved in this game if poo poo likes this can fly. Especially when it's a known sketchbag that's banned from playing another competitive CCG. Just make an example of this clown, he won't be missed.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 15:05
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:Discreetly putting it in into play and then not letting the opponent do the same is literally cheating. Yes the game might be complicated but if you have a habit of making beneficial whoopsies on your own stuff but have an eagle eye on when your opponent goofs, it's suspicious as hell. While I fully agree that he should have a ban from his past history in MtG, I think this is the first instance of this happening at a F&B event, and at least they've put him (and the community in general) on notice of what they will and will not allow at their tournaments now from players. He tried to do the poo poo that (from what I understand) normally happens at the Pro level MTG events (see my previous point of "A player said he was going to combat, which in the rules is shorthand for "I'm going directly to the Declare Attackers" step, he tried to use his "At start of combat" and instant-speed triggers, his opponent called the judge and the judge told him that he wasn't allowed trigger any of his instant-speed or "At start of combat" triggers. Because he said he was going to combat." BS), and LSS has firmly come down on the "The game is complicated and people make mistakes, if you want to be able to fix your mistakes, let your opponent fix theirs" side of the matter. I can understand giving him a warning instead of a ban just because the game is relatively young and they want to encourage people to attend events, rather than being an oppressive "You cannot make mistakes ever" type of deal. If he continues this poo poo and they keep handling him with kid gloves, then you can break out the pitchforks and torches.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 15:41
|
|
|
Lone Goat posted:Discreetly putting it in into play and then not letting the opponent do the same is literally cheating. Yes the game might be complicated but if you have a habit of making beneficial whoopsies on your own stuff but have an eagle eye on when your opponent goofs, it's suspicious as hell. Discreetly putting it into play is cheating in itself. You should never be modifying the board state without your opponent being aware. He missed his trigger, if he wants to fix it he should be asking (like his opponent did)
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 15:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 08:37 |
|
|
Marketing your game as filling to void in big prize wizard chess that magic left when it abandoned the pro tour and then not dropping the hammer on your champ straight up cheating is a bad look imo.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2021 15:58
|
|