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ShaneB posted:The sets that have gone out of print haven't spiked though, as everyone knows there will be reprints in future sets. Noone honestly expected that every card would be in print forever, but it's not unreasonable to expect a game that bills itself as unlimited to have reprints to continue as long as the game is alive. And yet they make sets go oop within a year of release.
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Dec 8, 2021 00:54
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ShaneB posted:The sets that have gone out of print haven't spiked though, as everyone knows there will be reprints in future sets. I think the idea is more that cards would be in print while legal for use, or equivalent cards which might be slightly weaker or stronger based on the meta and general balance. Like to use magic as the analogy, counterspell isn't always gonna be in print but some blue non-conditional counter that costs between 2 and 3 is usually in rotation, plus when it's not in print generally no one is playing it at official tournaments.
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Dec 8, 2021 07:52
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The whole "First Edition" versus "Unlimited" is pretty laff when apparently the Unlimited is just a few print runs longer or something? They poorly communicated that "Unlimited" meant like, print on demand when stock is low or something. Not "lolol we're out of this one its ~gone forever~!!!!" They could have easily been up front with "Unlimited means it will be printed for 2 years, or the oldest/1st set will rotate out of unlimited when the 8th expansion comes out" or something. But nope. Why even bother with differentiating the two? Besides just like getting people to hand over their cash for FOMO chance of the random EVEN RARER class of foils poo poo from First Edition?
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Dec 8, 2021 08:21
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triple sulk posted:The price spikes haven't really happened because the total player base size is extremely small and the rarity system is garbage. At least MTG’s prints don’t work like that, though - the point is generally determinate and corresponds with when the set rotates out of standard. If you can play a card in your standard deck, you can generally buy the pack it comes from. Not that I disagree over the larger point but I can see why, even compared to mtg, the “oh this is out of print now” thing is jarring.
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Dec 8, 2021 17:57
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Just a heads up, there's a lot of logistics with running a randomly collated print line with multiple print types (foils,etc.) and multiple collation steps (rarity sheets->pack distribution->boxing), especially if you want boxes not to be easily mappable. Fixed LCG product is closer to an UNO deck than a pack of FAB/MtG, and comparing the two equally illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of all of the attendant processes. This is also why you don't "just swap in a print run". It's costly, and sometimes, you can't just get on-demand service because the printer has other jobs. All that said, yes FAB is dumb as poo poo and probably lied (or was at least incredibly misleading) in their marketing. This is why anyone who understands any of the business side of this has been pointing out the red flags since day 1.
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Dec 8, 2021 18:05
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It just seems incredibly disingenuous that they didn't more clearly expound on just what the difference between "First Edition" and "Unlimited" if one is just a slightly longer print run? It seems more like an unhanded cash grab to trigger FOMO in people about ~COLD FOILS~ in an audience that is already prone to addition and gambling on the loot boxes that are buying sealed packs/boxes/ENTIRE CASES OF BOXES.
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Dec 8, 2021 18:27
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jeeves posted:It just seems incredibly disingenuous that they didn't more clearly expound on just what the difference between "First Edition" and "Unlimited" if one is just a slightly longer print run? Is it accurate to say that they are just trying to put EVERY card on the "reserved list" since that seems to be one (of many) driver of investment value in the MTG secondary market?
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Dec 8, 2021 18:52
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Finster Dexter posted:Is it accurate to say that they are just trying to put EVERY card on the "reserved list" since that seems to be one (of many) driver of investment value in the MTG secondary market? Every word of this is wrong on some level. What are you even talking about?
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Dec 8, 2021 18:54
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Finster Dexter posted:Is it accurate to say that they are just trying to put EVERY card on the "reserved list" since that seems to be one (of many) driver of investment value in the MTG secondary market? Nah, they said they'll essentially follow the same policy as MTG's non-reserve cards: reprinting popular cards in future sets, but not announcing when in order to drive secondary market speculation. The reserve list not only precludes reprints of those cards but also discounts any possibility of functional reprints (ie they theoretically can't just take a creature on the reserve list, change it from a Spirit to a Bird, and give it a different name).
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Dec 8, 2021 18:57
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Toshimo posted:Every word of this is wrong on some level. What are you even talking about? Um, this: Tarnop posted:Nah, they said they'll essentially follow the same policy as MTG's non-reserve cards: reprinting popular cards in future sets, but not announcing when in order to drive secondary market speculation.
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Dec 8, 2021 20:55
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I realise that I didn't make it clear what the point of the second paragraph of my post was. Not even the First Edition sets of FAB are akin to the reserve list, because they print Unlimited versions of the same cards 6 months to a year later. It is to LSS's credit at least that they didn't replicate the reserve list nonsense and instead built a model that has a collectible version of a card and a playing piece version. The problem is when you cut off the playing piece printing after three months, you turn those into collectibles too.
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Dec 8, 2021 22:07
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Tarnop posted:I realise that I didn't make it clear what the point of the second paragraph of my post was. It'd be incredibly stupid for anyone to replicate the Reserve List because WOTC doesn't benefit from it. (That somehow their lawyers have managed to stop what has to be an alliance between the suits and the designers to lift it is frankly shocking to me - it's a policy that's bad for everyone who doesn't already own the things on it.)
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Dec 9, 2021 03:44
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I would happily watch my tabernacle plummet in value if it meant more people could afford legacy, plus I could buy more decks. It'd be great! It can't really stay at 2k anyway
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Dec 9, 2021 11:43
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It would be nice for this thread to have been created with any intent besides talking about the distribution and financial aspects, because the game is really good.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:19
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I like the game too, and it's a shame they've done weird bullshit with the distribution and rarity pumping. But in my maybe naive estimation, it seems like their idea of "limited print runs for collectors and then infinite printing in unlimited forever" is something that LSS themselves realize was stupid and they're switching to a more realistic model.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:22
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ShaneB posted:It would be nice for this thread to have been created with any intent besides talking about the distribution and financial aspects, because the game is really good. it says finance right in the thread name my friend
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Dec 10, 2021 19:23
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Lone Goat posted:it says finance right in the thread name my friend FAIR.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:25
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You could always fire up another thead for FAB fans and discussion of the actual game, but I imagine the finance drama will leak into that pretty quickly. Doesn't hurt to try though?
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Dec 10, 2021 19:27
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Dr. Clockwork posted:You could always fire up another thead for FAB fans and discussion of the actual game, but I imagine the finance drama will leak into that pretty quickly. Doesn't hurt to try though? The thread would get half a dozen posts a month at best and fade into obscurity, much like the game is currently doing
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Dec 10, 2021 19:31
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Yeah agreed. The funny thing is there are even more frothy, obvious scam games, without the veneer of a halfhearted attempt at OP, balance etc out there. Like we've made fun of metazoo but there's something called Weiss Schwartz that is just anime foils and people have been pumpanddumping for years on it? Capitalism has just rotted everything of its potential for fun.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:37
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triple sulk posted:The thread would get half a dozen posts a month at best and fade into obscurity, much like the game is currently doing Sometimes I'd really rather see that than what I see in the magic threads.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:38
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ShaneB posted:Sometimes I'd really rather see that than what I see in the magic threads. What do you see in the magic threads? I haven't ventured into one of those in years.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:43
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Dr. Clockwork posted:What do you see in the magic threads? I haven't ventured into one of those in years. You can almost certainly guess.
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Dec 10, 2021 19:45
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ShaneB posted:It would be nice for this thread to have been created with any intent besides talking about the distribution and financial aspects, because the game is really good. I had some of a thread for FaB written up the night before this one got posted, about purely the game itself since I've loved playing it. I contacted mods and they said I could still post mine, but nobody else here seemed interested in talking about the actual game so I didn't. If there's interest I'll finish it up.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:00
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Codeacious posted:I had some of a thread for FaB written up the night before this one got posted, about purely the game itself since I've loved playing it. I contacted mods and they said I could still post mine, but nobody else here seemed interested in talking about the actual game so I didn't. If there's interest I'll finish it up. Honestly h8r person is probably right, it won't generate traffic. But then again the Legends of Runeterra thread was VERY slow for a LONG time until the game really snowballed. I think once the competitive schedule is announced (soon) and people are prepping for the ProQuests and Callings and such we will have a much better idea of what's going to happen with this game.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:01
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Codeacious posted:I had some of a thread for FaB written up the night before this one got posted, about purely the game itself since I've loved playing it. I contacted mods and they said I could still post mine, but nobody else here seemed interested in talking about the actual game so I didn't. If there's interest I'll finish it up. I’ve been loving playing FAB and the community here in Ottawa has been seeing steady growth for months. We’ve got four stores running the Farewell to Rathe events all in the same weekend, all cooperating so we can poopsock drafts all weekend. ProQuests just got announced and a store here scored an event as well. One of the guys in our community Top 8’d at Nationals a few weeks ago and there is some great competitive play every Armoury/Skirmish night. Blah blah I’d love to have a real thread to chat in even if it doesn’t get a huge amount of traffic. I’d love to help with the post if I can, I’m going to start preparing to hit a bunch of ProQuests in the area in the coming months after Everfest releases (assuming COVID protocols permit of course) so I’d love to brainstorm with more people.
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Dec 10, 2021 20:11
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Codeacious posted:I had some of a thread for FaB written up the night before this one got posted, about purely the game itself since I've loved playing it. I contacted mods and they said I could still post mine, but nobody else here seemed interested in talking about the actual game so I didn't. If there's interest I'll finish it up. 
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Dec 10, 2021 20:12
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Yeah, that's why I didn't make the thread; it didn't seem like more than 3-4 posters here wanted to talk about the game. EDIT: Well, I guess there's more than just a few. I'll consider writing it again. I'm hopeful that things will pick up because the game is very good. The investors were the majority of the people at events in my local scene until about 6 weeks ago- now it's 30 or so people who are playing the game with only a few extra cards for trade, and the investors haven't come around as much to local events as nobody wants to negotiate over $2000+ binders for hours with them. Five LGSes have picked up the game in that time frame as well, including a very well regarded MtG shop. Boxes are selling, and while it's 100% not even close to MtG numbers we're all having fun and have a great community going. Things are in a lull right now cause of Christmas but come January I expect things to pick up again. Everyone's excited for the new set and a lot of people are getting a box or five. It sucks that posters here seem to only focus on investment and print runs and such. As a player I've had no issues getting singles and the OOP announcements didn't impact prices for more than a week (one card, Arcanite Skullcap, went *down* from $300 to $200, due to a reprint announcement). There definitely is financial weirdness. A few staple cards need to drop in price. Occasionally an investor comes to an event with MetaZoo cards and crypto talk which is... Extremely awkward and off-putting. But all the local players laughed at the insanity of the scam Rudy "promos" and agreed that we'd never allow them to be used in decks, even in unofficial/casual matches. It definitely sucks that there's still this shadow of TCG market manipulation garbage from all the early investment in the game, but it feels like the game is pulling away from that. The next set will definitely be make or break though, and we'll just have to see what happens. But what do I know, I also loved Netrunner and that game died a regrettable death. If FaB dies I'll be sad, but will also not regret all the fun matches and great people I've met. Game is good, give it a try. Starter decks are $12 and there's nothing scammy about buying a couple to have fun at a kitchen table with a friend. Back Alley Borks fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Dec 11, 2021 |
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Dec 10, 2021 20:38
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I'd like a split too. Because there's fast more tcg finance scams and I don't want the FaB players to think we're picking on them because theirs happened to be the one backed by the tcg finance scam guy.
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Dec 10, 2021 22:02
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Codeacious posted:A few staple cards need to drop in price. What does this entail? What are staple cards normally going for?
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Dec 11, 2021 01:26
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Finster Dexter posted:What does this entail? What are staple cards normally going for? I've heard Command and Conquer brought up several times as one of the worst examples. It's pushing 100 bucks https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/225899/flesh-and-blood-tcg-arcane-rising-command-and-conquer?Language=English
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Dec 11, 2021 01:32
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The four biggest ones are powerful generic cards any class can use: command and conquer, art of war, enlightened strike, and Arcanite Skullcap. Oh and fyendals spring tunic.
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Dec 11, 2021 01:34
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I scoped out the PAX Unplugged convention today, curious how these "hot" new TCGs are doing. It took a few laps until I found either Flesh and Blood or MetaZoo for sale at all, most vendors were predictably walls of MtG and Pokemon, with some Yu-Gi-Oh accents here and there. A few years ago, when KeyForge just launched, it was all over the place.
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Dec 11, 2021 01:42
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Finster Dexter posted:What does this entail? What are staple cards normally going for? The two offenders right now are Command and Conquer ($85 TCGPlayer) and Enlightened Strike ($60 TCGPlayer). While that's the lowest they've been in a while, a lot of decks want three of those, which adds on a whopping $250-$450 extra for your first deck for those two cards alone. There's a few other cards that are $25-35 but are either one-ofs, or not used often (one former staple, Art of War, is now $35 due to lack of demand). Every other Majestic (Mythic) is solidly in the $3-$15 range, and Rares are cheap. There's arguments that the two staple Legendary equipment cards ($175 and $200, respectively) need to drop. But they're one-ofs and players are hoping they'll keep dropping with reprints (one reprint is confirmed, and the other card is heavily expected to come along for the ride). I've gone undefeated in events with a cheap inferior replacement for one of them, so I personally don't see them as big of an issue. Some people say they're a huge problem, and they may be right; I personally haven't had a problem with it. But this does mean that if you're new and add a Nationals-winning deck to your cart in TCGPlayer, you'll see a $700-$800 bill. I, everyone in my local scene, and even top players agree that's too high and are hoping LSS uses reprints in the next set to drop things down. That's where the "make or break" nature of the set I referred to comes from- it needs to lower that "up-front" cost substantially, and is very well poised to do that. All it needs is to reprint just a few cards, and one of them is already confirmed. The set will have new cards for every hero, so everyone will want it, and hopefully via that demand there will be a lot more copies of the staples floating around. It is a lot of maybes right now, and everything could collapse if the next set sucks. There's a ban/restricted announcement in four days too, and many players are nervous. But this game is really fun, so people are still playing it despite these issues. LSS employees have been recently engaging more and more with the community in Discord servers, calling LGS owners, expanding the judge program, etc, so players are hopeful.
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Dec 11, 2021 02:24
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Fundamentally I don't NEED this game to be huge. I need it to be successful enough to keep being made and have a good small community play it. The discord communities are AWESOME and people play on webcams all the time, and the LGS play is happening all around me. One of the big questions is how does this game capture casuals, because it reminds me of Artifact (but way better) in that it's a game where the better player wins a lot more, and it requires a lot of domain knowledge and practice to be decent. Magic has higher variance and a bunch of ways to play more casually that appeal to a wider array of folks.
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Dec 11, 2021 03:00
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Since there does seem to be a couple of Goons on here that play, I’d be down for playing some FAB over TTS some time if anyone wanted to get games in outside of their local scene. Fire me a PM if you’d want to some time!
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Dec 12, 2021 00:49
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Jcam posted:Since there does seem to be a couple of Goons on here that play, I’d be down for playing some FAB over TTS some time if anyone wanted to get games in outside of their local scene. Fire me a PM if you’d want to some time! I love webcam. Are you on the official discord?
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Dec 12, 2021 00:51
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ShaneB posted:I love webcam. Are you on the official discord? I just joined now! I’ve been in the local server and the Canadian one for a while, never bothered to look for the mothership.
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Dec 12, 2021 00:55
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ShaneB posted:I love webcam. Are you on the official discord? If anyone would like be interested on an Xmas cracked bauble or a set of the three gems from the TOA pre release you can DM me bc they are FT
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Dec 12, 2021 03:36
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As Codeacious said, mods are fine with a threadsplit (and if you'd like this thread renamed, just let me know). It's also OK for a thread to be low-traffic. It does mean people may not see the thread on the first page of TG, which is a shame, but if people bookmark it, it can still live. I've got bookmarked threads in other subs that have lasted years, but also can go two or three months between posts.
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Dec 12, 2021 03:57
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