|
Open Source Idiom posted:This is partly riffing off something Pan Dulce (hi!) and I were talking about in Couch Chat, but I think I really like Xander's overall character arc on this show -- particularly how it pays off in the final season. I don't think enough people get this. Yes, Xander is "the worst" early on and a lot of his character is creepy, pining incel... but he's supposed to be a geeky teenage loser. Some of it is just dated to the show, but some of it is a genuinely good representation of what some insecure, awkward young men are like. One of the great things about the show was that the characters aren't stuck in a constant time frame. Instead they graduate, go to college, get jobs, have mature relationships, etc. I always liked how Xander felt left behind when his smarter friends went to college and how out of place he was trying to fit in (getting the bar job, etc). Then the show acknowledged him growing into the role of an adult with a construction job to the point where he was actually the responsible one with an income and even supported the family unit while Buffy was gone. Add episodes like the one where he splits in two showing how confident and competent he COULD be and how he grows into something similar later on is a great part of the show. Unfortunately some writers get him to revert to "quippy, awkward incel" when they need it. If there was true continuity, "The Zeppo" should have been a turning point for his character. Compare the early jealous Xander sniping at Angel and trying to sabotage Buffy's relationship with him to how he tells her to chase after Riley later on.
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2023 16:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 11:25 |
|
|
imo the show is a bit overstuffed with characters coming into season 5. I understand Anya is a literalist oblivious to social cues but I don't think they are well fleshed out or as funny as they could be, at least for a top biller Dawn is annoying, I doubt that's a new perspective, but at least after five episodes there are new developments Riley is ok but I would've bet money back in season 4 that he wasnt going to survive at the end Tara is meh. Either way the Dawn plotline and Buffy/Spike appears to be going somewhere, some solid writing there that keeps the show going strong
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2023 19:31
|
|
|
Tara comes into her own over the course of S5 and especially S6, it was just S4 where she's a bit of a wet lettuce. I didn't care for her at first but she's basically good, decent and level headed with a sense of perspective and moral compass the rest of them lack. Anya's fun but throwaway, Coredlia-lite in effect, while Riley is linoleum given human form. Honestly, after my last rewatch, I'd almost stick Xander and Willow at the bottom of the tier list were it not for a certain S7 character who is The Absolute loving Worst. Buffy, Giles & Tara all top tier, and Faith, Cordy, Spike and Dawn just below.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 00:02
|
|
|
She doesn't get to do it a whole lot, but there's a couple small moments where Amber Benson plays Tara as a bit more cutting and sassy that I think suits her a lot better. For better or for worse, though, she definitely encapsulates that feeling where you are friends with somebody but their partner is almost a non-entity to you.Mokelumne Trekka posted:Dawn is annoying, I doubt that's a new perspective, but at least after five episodes there are new developments I'm sure you can guess that there is more coming with Dawn, but I really like Michelle Trachtenberg's performance. She's definitely intended to be annoying to a degree, and that's furthered by a couple of instances of bad writing, but I think she does a good job of playing someone whom the other characters are supposed to find annoying as opposed to being actually annoying.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 00:18
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:a certain S7 character who is The Absolute loving Worst. Assuming we're talking about Andrew? I never got that either, I always thought it should have been Jonathan that remained, seeing as he's been in the series since the first episode and actually developed as a character over that time. I heard at the time there were meta production reasons, ie who was friends with the writers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 01:15
|
|
|
G-Spot Run posted:Assuming we're talking about Andrew? I never got that either, I always thought it should have been Jonathan that remained, seeing as he's been in the series since the first episode and actually developed as a character over that time. I heard at the time there were meta production reasons, ie who was friends with the writers. Kennedy
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 01:26
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Kennedy I'm enjoying them this run through. The Killer In Me has a really great scene between her and Willow, where you get the sense of just how closeted Willow still is at this point in her life. Kennedy pushes Willow to be more open about her sexuality, about dating, and just to maintain a greater confidence over her identity in general. All of that is good IMO.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 01:48
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Kennedy Oh man, I forgot that whole character existed. Yeah, extremely annoyingly written. Good conceptually though as post above comments on.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 01:57
|
|
|
Tara's really only interesting when she's interacting with characters other than Willow. Which doesn't happen nearly enough. It's kind of an issue the show has in general once the cast balloons up and why season 7 becomes unwatchable after Selfless.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 16:03
|
|
|
Tara/Buffy, Tara/Dawn, Tara/Anya, great, yeah. Tara might as well be wallpaper when she's with Willow.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 16:08
|
|
|
banned from Starbucks posted:Tara's really only interesting when she's interacting with characters other than Willow. Which doesn't happen nearly enough. It's kind of an issue the show has in general once the cast balloons up and why season 7 becomes unwatchable after Selfless. This rewatch I'm only finding Spike/Buffy to be exhausting. Maybe I'll find The Potentials to be eventually be too much, but honestly that's been fine so far. The season's middle act, which is mostly a bunch of character grace note episodes, has been pretty great and I've found myself really looking forward to both First Date and Storyteller since they're more of that.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2023 16:23
|
|
|
After much of a hiatus (what can I say, video games are addicting), my husband and I got back to our Buffy/Angel watch. We saw Angel S1E9 Hero and Buffy S4E10 Hush and S4E11 Doomed. We were both super sad about Hero and the loss of Doyle. Anyone know if there was backstory to why the actor left the show so early? As for Hush, my partner couldn’t stop cracking up. He loved it, although when I mentioned the episode was Whedon’s response to a critic saying he couldn’t make a decent episode without quips, he said, rightfully so, that Whedon missed the point and all the physical gags were basically quips sans sound. As for Doomed, the foreshadowing of Spike staying in the school while the Apocalypse is about to happen? Interesting. It’s also fascinating to note that the costume department has Spike in a stupid Xander outfit, which includes ill-fitting baggy shorts and a stupid Hawaiian shirt, but for the scenes in the school, he’s back to faded blue jeans and the stupid shirt. I also like that he still displays evil tendencies by praying on the Scoobies’ insecurities about what’s happened in their lives (Xander delivering pizzas and living in his parents’ basement and Willow being a nerd with no boyfriend) and how they fit in with Buffy as her groupies. I love it; when he can’t fight, he trades barbs that hurt because they’re true, even if slightly twisted. Also, the props department has weird taste in college dorm posters. Buffy and Willow have a “Chocolate” poster with various chocolate nondescript truffles and treats and Riley has a poster of different types of balls with “Balls” as a title.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2023 08:51
|
|
|
Pan Dulce posted:After much of a hiatus (what can I say, video games are addicting), my husband and I got back to our Buffy/Angel watch. We saw Angel S1E9 Hero and Buffy S4E10 Hush and S4E11 Doomed. This is all pretty well known by now - Glenn Quinn was a serious addict at the time of the show and causing production hold ups, but also he and David were very close and the producers thought Glenn would probably drag David into that, so they cut him from the show. He was still semi-functional at the time but Glenn Quinn dies IRL within a couple of years of leaving the show. It's a sad story on and off the set, cos Doyle was a good character too. They don't throw him away though, his influence on the building blocks of the show continues to be relevant.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2023 09:02
|
|
|
yeah also spike being unable to do physical harm, so that impulse coming out in other ways is a funny part of s4
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2023 09:05
|
|
|
Saw the Angel episodes, S1E10 (Parting Gifts) and S1E11 (Somnambulist) and the Buffy episode S4E12 (A New Man). As always, I have thoughts. For the first Angel episode, I have a couple of things to say: one, Boreanaz -really- can't do accents. He was speaking Korean and my ears burned with how bad it was slurred around. No correct intonations at all, which is funny to me, because if you don't know the language and you have to act it out, you repeat phonetically, but he doesn't even pull the basics off. Also, throughout the episode, I was watching great monster makeup, but was about to lament that it's always face and hands in loose "human" clothing, but right as I was about to note this, Angel steps into a sauna and a demon holding a towel over the bottom half of itself, in FULL demon makeup comes out. Pretty cool. Glad to see Wesley come back! I love Doyle, but if it's between him or Wesley, I'm going with my side ex-Watcher man! As for the second episode, WTF was up with Kate's profile of the killer, Pope (otherwise known as Angel's childe, Penn)? It was so needlessly detailed, beyond what actual profiling could do. Might as well say, "I believe he prefers briefs to boxers, plain black," with how weirdly accurate you're getting. This was in the heyday of people getting into Behavioral Analysis and crime (before it was largely debunked), so I get it, but rewatch that moment and laugh. Also, one line of it really, but return of the bad Irish accent Angelus!  My one complaint? Angel's all about redeeming himself, right? But... his kin are still out there, still killing. Penn, Drusilla, Spike, that other guy in the future episode who I will not name. Why, if he's redeeming himself, would he not try to change them, then if they don't commit, kill them? It's like, "You're not killing in my town, I don't care. gently caress those out-of-towners." At the very least, command Drusilla to bag it. She's proven she'd do anything for him. The Buffy episode was middling. Sure, I love a good Giles adventure, especially when he's been sidelined a lot this season, but come on, not on Buffy's birthday! Huge poo poo is supposed to happen on that day and instead of that, we get nothing but Fyarl hijinks that don't even happen to her personally. Although, funny thing, my husband caught the very LOUD subtext of Riley feeling emasculated by Buffy's powers and leadership and winced, saying, "Well, THAT doesn't bode well."
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2023 11:25
|
|
|
Pan Dulce posted:As for the second episode, WTF was up with Kate's profile of the killer, Pope (otherwise known as Angel's childe, Penn)? It was so needlessly detailed, beyond what actual profiling could do. Might as well say, "I believe he prefers briefs to boxers, plain black," with how weirdly accurate you're getting. This was in the heyday of people getting into Behavioral Analysis and crime (before it was largely debunked), so I get it, but rewatch that moment and laugh. It's been a while, but isn't the scene sort of about how she's actually talking about Angel, and about how Kate subconsciously conflates the two? It's obviously all in on the wonders of profiling, sure, but the scene's also about how similar Pope and Angel are and about Kate's fundamental distrust of the guy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2023 13:26
|
|
|
Pan Dulce posted:I love Doyle, but if it's between him or Wesley, I'm going with my side ex-Watcher man! This is your first time through? It'll be interesting to see if your feelings change as Wesley evolves through the series. I didn't know anyone liked Wesley at all in Buffy/s1 of Angel but I personally think he's the main character of Angel as the series goes on
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2023 14:16
|
|
|
Medullah posted:This is your first time through? It'll be interesting to see if your feelings change as Wesley evolves through the series. I didn't know anyone liked Wesley at all in Buffy/s1 of Angel but I personally think he's the main character of Angel as the series goes on It’s my second, but I do recall thinking the same my first go ‘round, oddly enough, because I thought research nerd was better than nice schlub. Wesley brought a bumbling, funny sort of addition on Buffy as the episodes passed there and Doyle wasn’t my favorite for Cordy, so he had to go, imo. It’s my husband’s first go at both Buffy/Angel and he REALLY liked Doyle and was sad at his demise. He even went straight to Google afterwards to see if there was a reason WHY, behind the scenes, his character left mid-season.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2023 17:37
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:It's been a while, but isn't the scene sort of about how she's actually talking about Angel, and about how Kate subconsciously conflates the two? It's obviously all in on the wonders of profiling, sure, but the scene's also about how similar Pope and Angel are and about Kate's fundamental distrust of the guy. I get that. To be honest, I totally forgot about this episode and Penn and thought WR&H was already further in the game and was futzing with Angel’s mind in his sleep. I’m trying to give Angel a better shake this second go ‘round and actually pay attention. I was prejudiced at first because I hated Angel and Cordy on Buffy. That’s not the case on Angel.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2023 17:42
|
|
|
I'm watching Leave the World Behind on Netflix and right as I clicked on this thread it centered right on a shot of Buffy season 2 DVD box set. Clearly I'm psychic
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2023 18:01
|
|
|
Medullah posted:I'm watching Leave the World Behind on Netflix and right as I clicked on this thread it centered right on a shot of Buffy season 2 DVD box set. Clearly I'm psychic I just looked at my Twitter and someone uploaded the image from the movie. Coincidence or powers coming up? Who knows? 
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
Pan Dulce posted:As for the second episode, WTF was up with Kate's profile of the killer, Pope (otherwise known as Angel's childe, Penn)? It was so needlessly detailed, beyond what actual profiling could do. Might as well say, "I believe he prefers briefs to boxers, plain black," with how weirdly accurate you're getting. This was in the heyday of people getting into Behavioral Analysis and crime (before it was largely debunked), so I get it, but rewatch that moment and laugh. Also, one line of it really, but return of the bad Irish accent Angelus! Also worth noting Penn was played by Jeremy Renner.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 22:26
|
|
|
Crashbee posted:Also worth noting Penn was played by Jeremy Renner. Who manages to look the same age, or even older, then than now. I don’t know if it was the goatee and spiked hair with frosted tips or the wig in the past scenes, but I saw it was him and was like, “He looks rough.” Man is perma-older gentleman, even in his youth.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2023 23:25
|
|
|
Medullah posted:This is your first time through? It'll be interesting to see if your feelings change as Wesley evolves through the series. I didn't know anyone liked Wesley at all in Buffy/s1 of Angel but I personally think he's the main character of Angel as the series goes on Personally I like season 1 Angel version of Wesley better than latter Wesley. A constant from Wesley is he is very the ends justify the means. And it's unsurprising for the type of character Wesley is toward the end of Angel, but early on when he's goofier if makes those cold moments stand out. So I think they hit harder.
|
|
#
?
Dec 12, 2023 00:20
|
|
|
Storyteller is pretty good. Forgot how blatant the episode gets about Andrew's sexuality -- and the episode suggests that maaaaybe he and Jonathan were loving. I reckon this episode might look slightly better in 4:3, and perhaps was maybe shot with that intention (or, at least, with the format undecided). There are a few moments that really jump out, like Buffy delivering a very obviously fake slap to a student, or Andrew suddenly gaining and then subsequently losing a pair of sandals between shots, that are only obvious at the edges of the screen and probably would have looked better if they were cropped out. Might try watching this again that way and seeing if anything is gained. Also thanks to this episode I now know that Jane Espenson coined the name "Zima". lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 16:15
|
|
|
Yeah the show was shot and blocked for 4:3. The widescreen version shouldn't exist. I very distinctly remember people in 2002-2003 swearing up and down that Andrew's sexuality was ambiguous it was very odd.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 16:35
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:maaaaybe he and Jonathan were loving. Andrew's sexuality isn't even slightly ambiguous, but I don't remember anything about Jonathan.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 20:58
|
|
|
quote:Camden Toy, a recurring actor in Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, has passed away at the age of 68 from pancreatic cancer. RIP to a real one. Gnarl was cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 13, 2023 23:28
|
|
|
Yeah, he was a fun performance artist. RipLividLiquid posted:Wait. What?! When?! It's during the flashback to their time in Mexico, where they're sleeping in the same bed and kind of domestic with each other. It's the kind of scene you'd write for a couple.
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 01:34
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:Storyteller is pretty good. Forgot how blatant the episode gets about Andrew's sexuality -- and the episode suggests that maaaaybe he and Jonathan were loving. The widescreen versions of buffy are terrible. Wesley really starts to change after he gets hit first taste of LAPD hospitality
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 03:10
|
|
|
Saw Buffy S4E13-14, The I in Team and Goodybe, Iowa. Not much to report. Still kinda funny that Xander hates EVERY one of Buffy's boyfriends right off the bat, even the human soldier one he can mentally insert himself as. Also, Maggie Walsh looking in on Buffy and Riley having sex.... both of us watching went, "YEEEEEEUUUUGH." Only to laugh at Buffy waking up, turning around, and seeing Riley be a creepster and just stare at her as she sleeps. The music for their first time was really cheesy and not in a mean-to-do-that-because-it's-romantic kind of way. Not as dramatic as the ones with Angel and Spike. I don't even recall if Parker got some music. We saw Adam saying Mommy and my partner turned and said, "Well, his mom IS a freak, so it figures he is too." We both saw him talking to the little boy and when the boy asked what the spike on his arm was for, we both replied, "Killing little boys," which apparently, was right on the money (forgive me, I hate this season, so I've forgotten so many details). Anyone else get kinda gay vibes from Forrest? He seems irrationally into Riley's sex life and gets all mad when he makes Buffy a serious thing. Almost like he's jealous. Also, what the HELL Riley? You shove Willow, you threaten to hurt and shove around Buffy, and you almost shoot an innocent female (demon/human? Who knows?). I know he's sick, but again, drugs don't make you an rear end in a top hat. Edit: Almost forgot. We both cracked up at the notion that Adam uses floppies that are clearly labeled with Sharpie. Throwback! Edit Part Deux: Spoilers for upcoming seasons, but I found it funny that Giles honestly comes up to Spike saying he could fight for the greater good, offering him an olive branch towards being a Scooby and Spike basically trashes that idea. Later on, he's practically begging for them to acknowledge him doing good S5, then when he's ACTUALLY being good in S7, Giles just doesn't believe in him, even with a soul. That's almost tragic, it's so ironic. Also, Spike's, "Got to hand it to you Goldilocks, you have bleeding tragic taste in men," is also hilarious, considering he's part of the men she chooses to be in her life in the future. Not to mention he uses Goldilocks as a nickname again when coming on to her in the kitchen in S6. Weird how all this comes around, no? Pan Dulce fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Dec 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 09:42
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58TXdFxHu58
|
|
#
?
Dec 14, 2023 15:32
|
|
|
Wow, that widescreen conversion is terrible. I don’t know why anyone approved that release.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 16:04
|
|
|
in_cahoots posted:Wow, that widescreen conversion is terrible. I don’t know why anyone approved that release. I figure it was like the 3D movie craze, some studios went to the effort of doing it right, others did a quick conversion of existing 2D footage. Buffy was important enough for them to want some money from a HD release, but not important enough to put any real effort into it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 15, 2023 17:53
|
|
|
in_cahoots posted:Wow, that widescreen conversion is terrible. I don’t know why anyone approved that release. TVs are widescreen now. That's all the thought that went into it. Every concern everyone in the chain of production raised was met with TVs are widescreen now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2023 04:51
|
|
|
Right before he was cancelled Whedon was making noise about overseeing a proper conversion for Buffy and Angel because he was never consulted on this one. Obviously as much as I'd like to see them brought into HD respectfully I'd happily miss out on that if it means Whedon continues to rot.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2023 14:19
|
|
|
I feel like the window wherein a proper HD remaster was potentially on the table has passed, especially with Whedon being (deservedly) dead and buried. It's hard to see any kind of momentum gathering around it at this point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2023 14:40
|
|
|
They're not really making any new Buffy fans unless that long-rumored reboot happens, so unless that goes forward, we're stuck with poo poo. Though I have a hard time watching the show now anyway.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 03:43
|
|
|
Lies My Parents Told Me is so loving Oedipal it's very funny. I don't even mean the bit where Spike's mum goads him into killing her, there's even just the opening where Wood compares Buffy to his own mother. The First's plan here is pretty tight tbh. Every little victory Buffy makes against it ends up costing her the trust of own people, as she increasingly hardens and demands the same hardness from her people -- her soldiers -- while they, in turn, begin to feel some of the same weight Buffy felt for years and resent her for it. And she's got no time for that, you know? She pushes Spike to take up violence again, she pushes Willow to get back on the magic, repeatedly tells everyone to shut the gently caress up and stop infighting, intimidates Andrew with threats of murder (and leaves it unspoken whether she'd go further), and then there's the whole thing with Spike and Wood / Dawn. The cute family vibe of the earlier years is gone now, these people don't have a choice and they realise it, and are being continually goaded by Buffy (and Giles) to go the gently caress all in or get the gently caress out. I do think the seventh season suffers slightly from not checking in with Anya / Willow at this point, though. I think there's a story there, not just to cap off their overall animosity (and fairly similar recent experiences) but also to check in on Anya's increasingly vocal irritation with Buffy, and with Willow's feelings about being told to just do magic. And maybe Kennedy's attitude to the latter. Honestly, I sort of get the sense that Kennedy and Anya would probably get along decently well given their tendency to be outspoken and similarly opinionated, except for their feelings about Willow and such. Really enjoying this season this time through tbh.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 04:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 11:25 |
|
|
Toaster Beef posted:I feel like the window wherein a proper HD remaster was potentially on the table has passed, especially with Whedon being (deservedly) dead and buried. It's hard to see any kind of momentum gathering around it at this point. A good widescreen conversion, like they did with The Wire, would cost... maybe not a lot of money, but far more than would be cost effective since the days of physical media are behind us. It doesn't earn you anything to put a bunch of effort into one of 315 shows on a streaming service. LividLiquid posted:They're not really making any new Buffy fans unless that long-rumored reboot happens, so unless that goes forward, we're stuck with poo poo. Buffy is a collaborative enough process that I don't really find it difficult to go back to. Whedon is obviously a huge part of it, but dozens of people were involved in the writing and directing alone, let alone actors, stunt people, costume designers, everybody else... I think it comes through most in the show's lesser moments, or ones directly connected to Whedon's on-set harassment, like Cordelia's character assassination in Season 4 of Angel. It's hard to not think about behind-the-scenes stuff in moments like that, but despite the chilling comments Michelle Trachtenberg has made about Buffy as a work environment, Dawn is generally written well-enough that you're thinking about the character and not the actor. EDIT: Open Source Idiom posted:The First's plan here is pretty tight tbh. Every little victory Buffy makes against it ends up costing her the trust of own people, as she increasingly hardens and demands the same hardness from her people -- her soldiers -- while they, in turn, begin to feel some of the same weight Buffy felt for years and resent her for it. And she's got no time for that, you know? I'm not sure what exactly makes the First so credible and present as a villain, but it really is. It seems like something that shouldn't work; half the time it's Sarah Michelle Gellar But Evil and the other half it's random dead characters, but it really feels like an ever-present, constantly building threat in a way no other big bad does save maybe Season 2 Angel, and there he's still a good guy most of the season. I think it's that a lot of the other season's big bads are scary but also undercut with a degree of camp--which is fine for the show Buffy is!--but largely removing that element is a good trick. Rochallor fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Dec 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2023 04:10
|
|