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VostokProgram posted:Also Lambda is the referee. You can think of Erika's actions as Bern writing secret orders and giving them to Lambda to resolve. No Wave posted:I think the game master is responsible for manipulating every actor except the detective. So if the seals were unbroken it demonstrates that the game master didn't run their game correctly - he can't retroactively change what the detective has witnessed. Similarly Erika did actually cut everyone's head off during the game and Battler can't change that.
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Jan 24, 2024 19:07
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small Umineko ep8 spoiler gently caress you Maria and your sheep puzzle. I even wrote a program to find the optimal solution and then it was all a trick question!
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Jan 28, 2024 22:58
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The power of being outthought by a 9 year old.
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Jan 29, 2024 00:00
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lol owned
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Jan 29, 2024 00:11
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Cyouni posted:The power of being outthought by a 9 year old. i love your avatar
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Jan 29, 2024 01:38
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Finished Ep8 now. Well that was both satisfying and also deeply unsatisfying. I constantly waited for the "mystery" explanation of the first games to show up, a thing that never came. It always stayed in the realm of fantasy with no detective coming out and explaining the mundane who, how and why. I guess that's kinda the theme of the story, but I wanted more of that deduction subgame in episode 8 where you actually had everything laid out and all the puzzle pieces fit together.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:53
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ymgve posted:Finished Ep8 now. Well that was both satisfying and also deeply unsatisfying. I constantly waited for the "mystery" explanation of the first games to show up, a thing that never came. It always stayed in the realm of fantasy with no detective coming out and explaining the mundane who, how and why. I guess that's kinda the theme of the story, but I wanted more of that deduction subgame in episode 8 where you actually had everything laid out and all the puzzle pieces fit together.
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Jan 30, 2024 02:56
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Read a bit of the "solutions" and I think it's a bit dumb that (full spoilers) Shannon and Kanon are supposed to be a single person. You can not hide Shannon's bonkhonagahoogs with just some binding to get to Kanon's shape. edit: VVVV well gently caress I guess that means George is the "wait until after marriage" type ymgve fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 03:05
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ymgve posted:Read a bit of the "solutions" and I think it's a bit dumb that (full spoilers) Shannon and Kanon are supposed to be a single person. You can not hide Shannon's bonkhonagahoogs with just some binding to get to Kanon's shape.
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Jan 30, 2024 03:08
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George is fat
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Jan 30, 2024 04:14
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The manga is also the official solution to everything that happened as well.
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Jan 30, 2024 04:24
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Having read some solutions/theories to the games now I think I'll stick with it was done by magic after all. The mundane solutions all rely on way too many people being down with indiscriminate murder, especially once they realize the murders follow the epitaph and they are gonna end up dead too. Also I suck at mysteries since I realized it's been less than a few weeks since I saw a Poirot episode where a fictious servant is just another character in disguise, and I still didn't realize the Shannon/Kanon trick until I read fan explanations post episode 8 ymgve fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 05:17
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The good thing about Umineko is that, if you do choose to spend a bunch of time thinking about it and/or learning all the details of the mystery, you're rewarded with something that makes sense. For anything that makes you think "this seems contrived/unrealistic," it almost always just means that something is being misunderstood. (Full game spoilers)To address the Shannon/Kanon thing (which is probably the biggest thing that feels kind of weird/unsatisfying on first read), there are a few things to keep in mind: - Genji and Kumasawa support the ruse. This is really the big one. It's possible that Jessica (or whoever) suspected something at some point, but those suspicions would likely be put to rest by the fact that Kanon's existence is supported by Genji/Kumasawa. Remember, from her perspective there's no reason for them to lie about Kanon (since Jessica has no idea about the "Shannon being Kinzo's kid and the true head" stuff that Genji/Kumasawa are aware of from the beginning). Beyond this, you'd be surprised what you can pull off with a wig + makeup + fake boobs. - The motive behind it is something never fully spelled out by the game. The "Confessions of the Golden Witch" part of the manga spells out the details (in the VN, the most important stuff is in Episode 2, though there's stuff related to this throughout the entire game). To sum it up, "Beatrice" is the baby dropped by Natsuhi. The baby was assigned male at birth (it's why Natsuhi expects a man to be "the child from back then"). After injuries sustained from the fall, Genji/Nanjo decide to raise the child as a girl (Sayo Yasuda). Upon reaching puberty, Sayo starts to feel a lot of confusion about her gender for obvious reasons. This is what makes her want to explore living as a boy (Kanon). She only learns the full truth after she's already in a relationship with George. The confrontations between Shannon/Kanon and Beatrice in Episode 2 should make a lot more sense with this in mind. It's basically her inner dialogue. Another topic of contention (and one you mentioned) is people cooperating with the murders. There are a couple main points here: - Sayo/Beatrice has a couple main "tools" to work with. The biggest is simple threats - she has the guns and (most importantly) the bomb. Next is the gold, which the adult siblings are absolutely willing to kill over - None of the accomplice set-ups ever manage to happen in reality (as you see in the Episode 7 Tea Party). In reality, the adults just solved the puzzle and then Kirie/Rudolph murdered everyone except Eva (and sorta Battler/"Beatrice"). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 06:20
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ymgve posted:Having read some solutions/theories to the games now I think I'll stick with it was done by magic after all. The mundane solutions all rely on way too many people being down with indiscriminate murder, especially once they realize the murders follow the epitaph and they are gonna end up dead too. I'm sorta piggybacking off of what Ytlaya said, but definitely give Confessions of the Golden Witch a read. It's three manga chapters found exclusively in the manga adaptation of Ep 8, and it fills in a number of gaps that you may be looking to fill in, including on how the murders happened (it was all magic, ahaha). Confession is not necessary to read, but I found it gave an extra bit of context that really puts things into perspective. I suggest to give yourself a couple of days to digest the ending before jumping straight into Confession.
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Jan 30, 2024 06:36
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Yeah, I just read Confessions of the Golden Witch. It does explain things pretty well. I still don't think threats would be enough to keep family members and servants other than Genji under control once the bodies start to drop, but of course these are all most likely "what if" scenarios that never happened. I also assume the ep7 theatre solution didn't happen, and the truth is extremely banal. (Like, Eva solved the riddle on her own, didn't trust that Beatrice had disabled the bomb, flipped it back on, then once there were minutes left she panicked about whether she did the right choice and ran to the other side of the island, without time to warn the others. Instant survivor's guilt and self-blame.)
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Jan 30, 2024 06:51
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ymgve posted:Yeah, I just read Confessions of the Golden Witch. It does explain things pretty well. I still don't think threats would be enough to keep family members and servants other than Genji under control once the bodies start to drop, but of course these are all most likely "what if" scenarios that never happened. I also assume the ep7 theatre solution didn't happen, and the truth is extremely banal. (Like, Eva solved the riddle on her own, didn't trust that Beatrice had disabled the bomb, flipped it back on, then once there were minutes left she panicked about whether she did the right choice and ran to the other side of the island, without time to warn the others. Instant survivor's guilt and self-blame.) Part of it is that certain accomplices are under the impression that it's all an act. For instance, in ep 1 Eva literally straight up calls it makeup while talking to Battler. Others, like Nanjo, are easily threatened/bribed into silence - see Nanjo just taking the gold to cover up the original Rokkenjima incident - and this one is crucial since it's Nanjo identifying the deaths. But yes, the ep7 theatre is very much what happened. ymgve posted:edit: VVVV well gently caress I guess that means George is the "wait until after marriage" type Fun fact: ep 2 goes to explicit pains to point out that they had Separate Rooms on their trip. Outside that, if you're still looking for explicit answers on how each portion was done, the ep 7 manga lays out each piece by piece at the part you'd expect it to. Cyouni fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jan 30, 2024 |
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Jan 30, 2024 07:00
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Man I need to finish this series, I am just beating back the urge to check under the redacted stuff to figure out what the hell is going on. But I will stay strong! I'm keeping track of the red text and who was where and all that! I got notes and everything. Just finished Chapter 3 last night and yeah, it definitely laid out some things with how the narrative of this is supposed to work between Detective Conan style locked room mysteries on one hand and Epic Animu Waifu combat on the other. I did see the end of Episode 3 coming with regards to Beato's bullshit face turn. The second her old mentor mentioned the North Wind and the Sun I was suspicious of anything 'nice' ol *cackle* *cackle* did. Starting Chapter 4 today. Enjoying the ever expanding cast for the most part. That said, I would not mind if the Chiester Sisters fell off a cliff. I thought the Stake Sisters were a tad obnoxious, but this? Oof.
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Feb 11, 2024 20:35
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(Whole series spoilers) The initial pitch to accomplices (other than Genji) is a fake murder mystery game. Depending on the episode the accomplices can realize earlier or later that they were tricked, but the threat of the bomb and the general difficulty of explaining the situation to the others means its hard for any accomplice to fully turn on the killer. The mystery is usually insanely obvious on a reread. For example Gohda and Kumasawa are both acting poorly in episode 2 after supposedly seeing Kanon and require prompting from Sayo and Genji to remember what their lines were supposed to be.
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Feb 11, 2024 22:45
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Irony Be My Shield posted:(Whole series spoilers) The initial pitch to accomplices (other than Genji) is a fake murder mystery game. Depending on the episode the accomplices can realize earlier or later that they were tricked, but the threat of the bomb and the general difficulty of explaining the situation to the others means its hard for any accomplice to fully turn on the killer. A lot of the things like you mention at the end of this post are really funny on reread. There are a bunch of scenes where characters seem "shaken by the murders" but are actually "shaken by dealing with the culprits and desperately trying to stay on their good side." This is where I think the guns come into play - they would make anyone else think twice about fighting back. You'd instead just try to survive (and the Ushiromiya siblings don't really give a gently caress about whether the others die, or at least not enough to risk their own lives). As I think Sayo herself mentions (I think in the manga or one of the Confessions things), Kyrie (and by extension Rudolph, but mainly Kyrie) is really the biggest threat. She wouldn't be cowed by the gun threat and would also be the most likely to figure things out. The best approach would probably be using her as an accomplice, but she likely still betrays you in that case. And as you see from Episode 7, it turns out that seeing her as the biggest threat is quite reasonable.
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Feb 11, 2024 23:12
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I'm a big fan of this series but somehow I haven't gotten around to the higurashi visual novel yet, I've only seen the animes I guess part of me might be worried it'll darken a very important anime to me from my teen years (because I've heard many a time the anime was gutted) irrational feelings.
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Feb 12, 2024 00:30
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While the Studio Deen animes aren't flawless adaptions, they're a perfectly fine entry point to the franchise. I think people forget that even though they had to cut so much from the VN, they were still 50ish episodes long in an era where most anime was moving to the modern model of only getting 12 to 13 episodes total. A more complete adaption would have to be even longer than that and I'm not sure thats a financially feasible idea for 07th.
Joyboy fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 19:51
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I think the anime was fine when literally nothing else was available but even back when it was airing people were reading translated TIPs and other super important background info on like the animesuki forums because the show was skipping so much. As it is now there's no scenario where I would recommend anything other than the VN.
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Feb 19, 2024 23:07
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Meowywitch posted:I'm a big fan of this series but somehow I haven't gotten around to the higurashi visual novel yet, I've only seen the animes The (original) anime and VN are functionally different genres, and I think that's fine. It guts the mystery part, but it would be hard to pull off what works about Higurashi's mystery in anime form anyway, so it just goes straight horror/thriller and does a good* job with it. It's definitely still worth experiencing the VN, IMO. *based on my teenage memory of it, anyway...
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Feb 20, 2024 16:04
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I haven’t read Higurashi in years but it really does not feel like the mystery is very fair or even intentional, it’s more about the story and characters. Like, the story is good and it coalesces in a way that’s sort of similar to a mystery, but the whole scenario is basically a stack of deus ex machinas piled on top of each other. Umineko is way more of an explicit mystery, obviously. Speaking of WTC, I saw some manga pages of some Higurashi thing except the cast all had smartphones….was rural Japan way more advanced than I would have thought in 1983, or what’s going on there? And did the WTC board game that was teased a year or two ago ever come out or even get any more news?
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Feb 20, 2024 18:48
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The only WTC style board game we need already exists and it's Tragedy Looper
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Feb 20, 2024 18:57
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Tragedy Looper is pretty good but I was curious about what they were going to do with it. I remember grabbing TL and trying to play it a few times before ever discovering the WTC franchise and not really grokking it at all. After I read Higurashi I played it again and it was just like “oooooOOOOHHHHHHHH.”
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Feb 20, 2024 19:33
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I'm still wondering what on earth happened to Umineko Gold, though I'm going to assume the sheer scope of dubbing Seacats killed it
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Feb 20, 2024 19:49
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Rockman Reserve posted:Speaking of WTC, I saw some manga pages of some Higurashi thing except the cast all had smartphones….was rural Japan way more advanced than I would have thought in 1983, or what’s going on there? this might be higurashi rei? currently-running manga about the children of the club getting caught in a time loop in 2019. i haven't read it because i don't believe it's being translated by any group right now. which is a shame because reading summaries on the wiki makes me deathly curious what is going on there i'm currently on my first read of higurashi after becoming a self-styled umineko scholar (as well as being yet another person who watched the anime back when it first aired) and i'm finding it a rough but interesting time. especially coming right off of umineko. about halfway through tatarigoroshi so far and it is interesting how much time is spent purely on characterization (children playing games together) at the cost of pacing, but that ryukishi is starting to cut away from scenes and being like "yeah you know what these people are like i dont need to put you through another 20k word board game" as of episode 3. also legitimately very funny how much rena is an author mouthpiece
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Feb 22, 2024 01:00
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Yeah, Rena does get a lot of the Ryukishi speaking directly to the reader scenes in retrospect but a lot of them have been what stuck with me the longest after finishing Higurashi. Specifically (not really a spoiler, but something Rena says that is thematic throughout the series) Rena's little speech about enjoying the good times while we have them because we never know when they're going to end. Is something I think about every so often when I'm having fun with friends or family. It's just a good reminder to be grateful for the good times when they come and to enjoy them to their fullest while they're with us. Anyway, just finished Chapter 5 of Umineko. This VN has it's hooks in me bad and I'm torn between going back through volumes 1 and 2 and just plowing through to the end especially after (Minor Chapter 5 spoilers) The end all but says "Hey dumbass, you have all the clues you need now go back and figure out who the culprit is and what the deal is with 'Beatrice'" but honestly I just want to get through the rest of it, read everything and join everyone else in The Golden Land beyond the end of Episode 8 just so I can at least stop avoiding the comments under the OST songs on YouTube.
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Feb 22, 2024 05:37
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And that's Umineko in the bag. Love looking back at my notes to see where I was prescient I knew you were up to some poo poo, 'Kanon' if that is your real oh wait and where I was way off base Sorry for thinking you were in on all this, Jessica! Sorry you never got to piss off your mom by joining a band in college. But yeah, that was something really special. Time to go back through the thread and read what people have said over the years as well as engage with even more twenty year old memes.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:05
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Man whenever I see an update to this thread, I get sad it's not a Ciconia update.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:43
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weird to realize ciconia is vaporware these days
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Mar 6, 2024 06:45
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