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Maybe there’s an alternate universe where Worf ended up the permanent chief engineer. He’s kind of a jack of all trades everyman in season 1. Ostensibly yeah, he’s shadowing Tasha, but he does basic science and comms stuff too.
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Mar 25, 2024 22:10
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Penitent posted:I need to find the video again but Marina Sirtis told a story at a con that her job was probably saved by Crosby leaving. Sirtis said that Majel Roddenberry confided in her that Gene had been told by producers that they wanted to remove either her or Crosby.
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Mar 25, 2024 22:50
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is similar to how they almost got rid of Harry Kim on Voyager but ended up firing Jennifer Lien to make room for Jeri Ryan Yeah, Harry was saved purely because People magazine named Garrett Wang one of the hottest men of 1997 and Rick Berman was like "Aw god dammit!  "
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Mar 26, 2024 00:00
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Voyager's dereliction of its own cast is so strange to me. Most of the cast got bugger-all to work with after S3 and the producers seem to resent that their characters are inert?
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Mar 26, 2024 00:09
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No Dignity posted:Voyager's dereliction of its own cast is so strange to me. Most of the cast got bugger-all to work with after S3 and the producers seem to resent that their characters are inert? It feels very obvious in retrospect that Voyager was supposed to be Jeri Taylor's show with the characters she wrote and cared about, and then she got pushed out/retired and Berman/Braga didn't care about the characters nearly as much, just making more Star Trek. (Taylor, for example, literally wrote the book on Janeway's history, Mosaic.)
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Mar 26, 2024 00:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:This is similar to how they almost got rid of Harry Kim on Voyager but ended up firing Jennifer Lien to make room for Jeri Ryan Jennifer Lien left Voyager because she had developed a rather terrible addiction to diet pills due to pressure from the producers to maintain a certain weight. Penitent posted:I need to find the video again but Marina Sirtis told a story at a con that her job was probably saved by Crosby leaving. Sirtis said that Majel Roddenberry confided in her that Gene had been told by producers that they wanted to remove either her or Crosby. I'm sure Sirtis believed that, but Majel was hardly a fountain of truth. Remember, she rushed to get David Alexander's Star Trek Creator hagiography of Gene out to shelves because she learned that Joel Engel's book about Roddenberry wasn't exactly shying away from the less-than-savory aspects of Roddenberry's life.
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Mar 26, 2024 00:13
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Arivia posted:It feels very obvious in retrospect that Voyager was supposed to be Jeri Taylor's show with the characters she wrote and cared about, and then she got pushed out/retired and Berman/Braga didn't care about the characters nearly as much, just making more Star Trek. (Taylor, for example, literally wrote the book on Janeway's history, Mosaic.) That was exactly my conclusion too lol, the tone shift between S3 and S4 is wild
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Mar 26, 2024 00:15
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Timby posted:Jennifer Lien left Voyager because she had developed a rather terrible addiction to diet pills due to pressure from the producers to maintain a certain weight.
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Mar 26, 2024 00:18
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FlamingLiberal posted:There were plans to fire Garrett Wang at one point though, right? Yes. Garrett Wang has said a few times now, they were killing off Harry in Scorpion, he was getting fired, and People Magazine basically saved his rear end.
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Mar 26, 2024 00:35
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Imagine an alternate timeline where Voyager didn't achieve the heights of pure mediocrity before squandering all its good will on a poorly cobbled together final season.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:09
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Atlas Hugged posted:Imagine an alternate timeline where Voyager didn't achieve the heights of pure mediocrity before squandering all its good will on a poorly cobbled together final season. See that's the thing, is I like the less explosive quieter family trying to figure out a way home Voyager that the first three seasons are. I think that's why I'm softer on it than a lot of you, those seasons in particular are when I watched the show a lot as a kid and while they definitely have issues they're at least not squandering all the ideas of what Voyager could have been yet to turn into BORG BORG BORG. honestly the thing that confuses me the most is that "11:59" is in Season 5, because it feels like an outtake from those earlier seasons. It's exactly the kind of stuff Taylor liked doing.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:16
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And there's no way they'd have done a quiet, contemplative episode about Janeway undergoing a religious experience and having to question her faith in scientific rationalism in S6, or had any episode at all about Neelix experiencing genuine drama
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Mar 26, 2024 01:34
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Taear posted:Which is madness when really the "redundant" jobs were clearly worf/tasha Would 100% be on board for Counselor Worf "To hide from your feelings is cowardice!" "If Jenny from Engineering continues to make passive aggressive comments then you must FIND HER AND KILL HER" Hell it feels like most of Troi's time on the bridge is saying how aggressive alien of the week is being, Worf can easily do that too.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:39
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Voyager felt the influence of First Contact in a big way. Being chill and even boring like late TNG is out, it’s time to get Sexy and Thrilling! It’s very belated and tame Star Trek version of getting edgy for the 90s.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:42
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skasion posted:Voyager felt the influence of First Contact in a big way. Being chill and even boring like late TNG is out, it’s time to get Sexy and Thrilling! It’s very belated and tame Star Trek version of getting edgy for the 90s.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:47
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It's been forever since I watched Voyager, but I remember my biggest complaint was they completely ignored the general premise. It probably did come up occasionally and I'm just not remembering it. The ideas that two crews who hate each other and are forced to work together and survive was completely dropped after Bellana became chief engineer a few episodes in, and it comes up once more where all it results in is Tuvok forcing the 4 most rebellious Maquis to run laps in high G. The fact that they're far away and have no support from the Federation rarely comes up beyond "we can't replicate all the food we want and have to eat this awful root from funny alien man lol" Most episodes they barely seem to care about getting home, they're just another comfy Federation ship going from one planet of the week to the next. Overall the whole show felt like a way to use warmed over rejected TNG scripts. There are multiple times when they could have gotten home earlier but just didn't. The time Q offered being the most egregious that I can remember. I assume Janeway never told anyone or put in her logs that she turned down his offer, because if the crew ever found out they should have mutinied.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:54
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Yes they drop the Maquis tension almost entirely by the end of Season 1. It comes up a couple of times later, but it's usually some instance of characters being under mind control. Early on they have episodes where they at least try and make it seem like they have some desperate situations, but once you get past 'Year of Hell', that also gets dropped pretty significantly in favor of 'alien of the week' episodes like what TNG had.
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Mar 26, 2024 01:56
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Its a missed opportunity that we haven't really seen what a Klingon Empire engineer is like. 
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Mar 26, 2024 02:17
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Also, I posted ages ago about how late Voyager seemed to be introducing a replacement for the Kaizon (the species who had been in hiding and secretly had a subspace warp tunnel network) and I looked forward to seeing them again and someone laughed at my post about but didn't want to spoil anything for me. Yeah those aliens never came back and the only reference to them ever again is that one of their ships is caught in the gravity anomaly, but the crew are never shown to be that species. Just completely dropped that narrative completely.
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Mar 26, 2024 02:36
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They should have made Harry the 8472 version of Locutus if they were gonna kill him off.
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Mar 26, 2024 02:43
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As soon as VOY came up with an excuse to keep the holodeck running despite their desperate situation, it was pretty clear that they weren't going to go anywhere interesting with the premise but just recycle all the TNG scripts that hadn't been good enough to make it into season seven, which was already a step down from the higher quality of the middle years. It's a drat shame too because a Voyager that forced itself to come up with new scripts, even limited as it was in our timeline not to have the long-running continuity of DS9, would certainly have found a voice for its characters instead of languishing with a bunch of wooden stereotypes.
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Mar 26, 2024 02:48
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socialsecurity posted:Would 100% be on board for Counselor Worf Worf would rock those plunging V-neck catsuits, too Worf leading his mok'bara class: "A warrior must be prepared to fight in any attire, even skintight lycra and high heels" McSpanky fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 02:52
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Personally speaking I'm quite happy with the TNG we got and don't want to change anything 
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Mar 26, 2024 03:25
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I've said before that while I've seen TNG in passing, and obviously I've seen the big episodes like Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things, but I've never done a proper watch. As I'm nearly done with Enterprise, I plan to binge through Discovery to catch up with with season 5 as it wraps up. Then, I'm finally going to do a proper TNG watch. I am very excited to see consistently good Trek (after season 1...) week after week.
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Mar 26, 2024 03:38
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Atlas Hugged posted:I've said before that while I've seen TNG in passing, and obviously I've seen the big episodes like Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things, but I've never done a proper watch. As I'm nearly done with Enterprise, I plan to binge through Discovery to catch up with with season 5 as it wraps up. Then, I'm finally going to do a proper TNG watch. I am very excited to see consistently good Trek (after season 1...) week after week. To be honest, I think TNG really only bats about .500. Even past season one there are some really bad episodes (though most are just average). It's just the good ones are so good that they carried the franchise for years.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:37
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Atlas Hugged posted:Also, I posted ages ago about how late Voyager seemed to be introducing a replacement for the Kaizon (the species who had been in hiding and secretly had a subspace warp tunnel network) and I looked forward to seeing them again and someone laughed at my post about but didn't want to spoil anything for me. The Kazon are the idiots with bad hair, the subspace tunnel guys are thr Vaadwaur and get a whole arc in the mmo, where they are controlled by the bugs from conspiracy
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Mar 26, 2024 04:53
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Tunicate posted:The Kazon are the idiots with bad hair, the subspace tunnel guys are thr Vaadwaur and get a whole arc in the mmo, where they are controlled by the bugs from conspiracy Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. The Kazon disappeared save for the odd like time travel episode or whatever, and then the Vaadwaur are introduced late in the series and it seemed like they would be the new baddies, but they just disappeared completely from the show after that one appearance.
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Mar 26, 2024 04:55
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If anything replaced the Kazon it would be the Hirogen.
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Mar 26, 2024 |
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Mar 26, 2024 05:03
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Eason the Fifth posted:To be honest, I think TNG really only bats about .500. Even past season one there are some really bad episodes (though most are just average). It's just the good ones are so good that they carried the franchise for years. Sounds about right. I'd say DS9 is the only series that is consistently good. Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds are making a go at it but unfair to judge until they're finished.
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Mar 26, 2024 05:05
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Eason the Fifth posted:To be honest, I think TNG really only bats about .500. Even past season one there are some really bad episodes (though most are just average). It's just the good ones are so good that they carried the franchise for years. Really, there aren't that many TNG episidoes that are actually bad. Yes, the show could be hit-or-miss at times, but even the misses don't usually fall much below "perfectly okay".
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Mar 26, 2024 05:41
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MikeJF posted:If anything replaced the Kazon it would be the Hirogen.
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Mar 26, 2024 05:48
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Powered Descent posted:Really, there aren't that many TNG episidoes that are actually bad. Yes, the show could be hit-or-miss at times, but even the misses don't usually fall much below "perfectly okay". Most of TNG's clunkers are also confined to the opposite ends of its run, at the very start when Gene was still alive and/or dying and being a shithead the whole time, or at the very end when everyone just loving done with this poo poo and moving onto DS9, Voyager and the movies.
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Mar 26, 2024 05:49
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TNG isn't bad, my thinking is just imagine you're going to press a button and have to watch a random episode from TNG or DS9. I think the DS9 button has a significantly higher chance of being a good episode instead of a whatever episode.
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Mar 26, 2024 05:58
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DS9 has always been my favorite, but I feel the exact opposite way. TNG, once it hit its stride, is very consistent. Some episodes are better than others of course, but I can't think of any real stinkers beyond Season 3. DS9 on the other hand, god love it, it's got some of the best episodes of Trek period, but when it has a bad episode, it has a really bad episode. Higher highs and the lowest of lows too. Melora, Meridian, that episode where Quark yells at his mom and cross dresses, the episode where Worf becomes a terrorist cause his GF is horny. Oof.
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Mar 26, 2024 07:03
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Random TNG episodes are starting to lose some of their shine, but that's only because I have seen them all like 10 times each in the past 10 years. Season 1 and some of season 2 has a strange vibe to them because of the dated scripts and Roddenberry meddling, but only a select few of them are straight up bad. On the other end of the show you have some pretty boring scripts carried by seasoned actors and well-liked characters. It's still really good TV and if you've not watched TNG to death you'll probably enjoy it a lot. Only the very best DS9 episodes can stand shoulder to shoulder with what TNG achieved from season 3 through 5.
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Mar 26, 2024 09:16
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Powered Descent posted:Really, there aren't that many TNG episidoes that are actually bad. Yes, the show could be hit-or-miss at times, but even the misses don't usually fall much below "perfectly okay". Yeah, very few TNG episodes will have you yelling "what the gently caress" at your TV, but it's also possible to enter a TNG fugue state where the technobabble and soothing beige carpet just wash over you.
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Mar 26, 2024 11:22
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counterfeitsaint posted:DS9 has always been my favorite, but I feel the exact opposite way. And then there's the mirror universe episodes which are the same awful episode but done once a season for some reason.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:22
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They're good
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Mar 26, 2024 12:23
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TNG is massively a product of its time. It comes off better when watched at semi-random with the handful of truly bad episodes filtered out, as was the case in the syndication days. It sets a good baseline and once in a while something big happens, and when it does, it actually feels big. But when the crazy sci-fi concept of the week just isn't very interesting, the characters aren't quite deep enough to carry it the way they could on DS9. I'm not saying don't watch it all, of course. Just give yourself permission to watch about a third of them while folding laundry.
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Mar 26, 2024 12:46
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It bears mentioning that early TNG is over 30 years old at this point (yes, we're old). It's about as old now as TOS was when we were growing up in the 1990s.
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Mar 26, 2024 13:36
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