Let's Play Minden Games's "Retro", a Tactical WWII Wargame

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Let's Play Minden Games's "Retro", a Tactical WWII Wargame

«‹›2 »

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

gradenko_2000 posted:

huh, that's fascinating. Maybe I should look around and see if there are any after-action reports to see how other people have "beat" it, from either side

These are all of the comments I could find on ASLSA that are relevant - might've missed one or two but you can get a glimpse of what did or didn't work for peeps.

quote:

Came down to the wire, no reinforcements ever arrived!
Didn't even get close. I set my Germans too far from one of the buildings and had no chance.
Benjamin came in heavy with his forces onto my right flank, which I did not expect. He got 2 buildings, but my reserves were timely and I was able to turn my 3rd building into a fortress. Called on turn 5.
Won only by holding the last building, that Ad Hoc Group saved my rear end!
German crushed the Russian right flank early on, resulting in an imbalance that the Russians could not bounce back from. The reinforcements on Turn 4 were dealt with swiftly and the lone Russian leader and unit were finally eliminated on the last turn, though they almost contested a building to block the win.
Very tense game, Russian victory thanks to a last turn counterattack after a bold German assault
Russian set up defending the 3 victory locations. Germans swung right and left and took buildings. Rest of force burst up the middle. Finally took.the middle building after wounding a leader 2 times. Russians rallied and got relief force in turn 4. Took back right side building. Germans bum rushed the final building in the find part of Turn 6 and surrounded the relief column. Almost a Russian come back. Crazy extreme dice rolls made a see saw battle. Great game right up to the end. Never gave up..
The first time I played this, the Germans smeared the Russians. I did not use fire groups very wisely, and I was too hesitant to through the Russians into the German meat-grinder, which cost the Russians the game.
I played this one twice more, with one more German and finally a Russian victory. It was very close all play throughs.
Decisive German win. Played solo. The Russians left a gap in their coverage of the left flank which was instantly exploited by the Germans, The flank crumbled with the Germans moving quickly left-to right towards the big factory. By the last turn the Germans had moved next to the garrison of the O building, which consist entirely of broken squads, some having escaped from the large factory. The German advanced in and took up residence. Game over. With everyone under DM, the last Russian rally phase was a forlorn hope.
A truly nail-biting game, decided in the last CC roll of the last turn in which the Russian player failed to take over one of the objectives by an inch. Great balance and a bunch of interesting situations.
My third time with this scenario, against my third different opponent. And, pardon the cliche, the third time was the charm.
Eric set up with most of his force deployed in the buildings running along the N6-P4 road. Although that provided me with several targets to mass fire on for my first turn prep, he was able to put enough interlocking fields of fire down that it ruled out moving into the street on the first turn. By his own admission, his one mistake was putting four squads and an LMG on the western half (his left) but with no leader to rally them. And my 4-6-7 with LMG and 9-1 leader set up in the I4 building pretty much bisected the battlefield and cut those guys off.
I set up three assault teams: left, right, and center. On the right, (western end) I quickly got across the road and drove his broken squads out of the first VC building. This is where he really missed having a leader there. However, my attack teams in the center and left were stymied. It seemed like in every fire phase I would either roll too high, or I would roll low, and he would roll lower. He posted his MMG with a 4-4-7 and 8-1 leader in J5 which really bogged down my center attack. Despite throwing a blizzard of bullets at those guys, I could not budge them. I am not exaggerating when I say they survived 5 consecutive MCs without so much as a pin. In desperation, I even tried to burn him out with a long range FT shot, only to have it flame out on the first shot.
By turn four, I was starting to worry I would run out of time to grab the other two VC buildings and would have to start throwing bodies into the street regardless of how many GO squads he had, But suddenly in one fire phase all the dice went my way, and combined with some well-placed smoke, almost everything he had on that side was broken or pinned. To add salt to the wound, Eric kept rolling high on his reinforcements, and they didn't come into the game until turn five. By then I was firmly entrenched in all three VC buildings, and they had to advance into a buzzsaw just to get on the board.
A fun game, and Eric put up a good fight. I think if he could have gotten his reinforcements in a couple turns earlier it would have been tough for the Germans to pull it out.
Ended with a German surrender in turn 6 after it was impossible to take more than one building. The star of the battle was one sole Russian unit with a LMG in the middle in H6 that managed to brake several units and hold back the German demolition charges.
Played this as the Germans. Ken used the suggested set up from the Bonsai Mag article. It essentially puts almost the whole Russian OB on the front line to contest first turn street crossing by the Germans. No doubt it gives the Germans pause before venturing out from the safety of their own stone buildings. The downside (IMO) is that with the Germans setting up second, they can set up killer FGs on selected units with the first prep fire.
I attacked heavy on my left (eastern end) hoping to capture the two VC buildings on that side early. Although it was touch and go, I managed to secure them both by T4. However, on my far right (western end) four conscript squads and a 7-0 leader withstood attack after attack from 4 MMC and a LMG. And just when I started to finally make some progress, his reinforcements arrived to shore up the defense of the last VC building. The game came down to two Melees one of which I won, the other ended in Melee on the last turn, keeping me from gaining control of the last VC building.
If coming down to a last turn CC, in the last hex, of the last VC building is the definition of play balance, then this scenario is well balanced. An interesting storyline developed when we realized the surviving conscript squad that held the last hex, had held that hex from turn one and survived multiple FG attacks, including a PBF from hefty FG.
Enjoyable game and recommended if you want an opportunity to experience urban tactics and using toys like DC and FTs.
Jack already gave a detailed AAR here so I won't add much. My first ASL (SK) game ever and this is a great first one for anybody. Hard to call it a "win" for the Russians as it came down to a CC DR in the very last hex on the very last turn.
Our playing already started to reinforce some tactical rules of thumb I'd read about. For example, a leader with a DC sometimes does more damage by his presence than the DC itself does. The Russians broke an important MG in the process of panic firing at said DC toting leader!
Had the privilege to play this great SK1 infantry scenario with none other than Dale Wetzelberger whose 9-2 leader counter in the original SL we all remember. Although he is primarily a full ASL player, he agreed to "step down" to SK for me. As can be seen by the ratings, this is a is very well-balanced scenario. The Germans have the usual cool urban warfare toys, plus their 5-4-8 elite squads can lay smoke on a 4 or less dr. The Russians have the usual cannon-fodder conscripts backed by enough 1st line squads and MGs to make life in OG precarious for the German. Add to that the "shock" platoon led by a 9-2 leader that can enter as early as turn two, and the German player faces a real challenge.
Dale was the Russians and skillfully set up to avoid any serious first turn Prep fire, while at the same time keeping enough LOS in play to make crossing the road dangerous. In retrospect, my attack plan was so-so. I hit hard on both flanks, taking the far western building fairly early and the far eastern building shortly thereafter. But Dale adroitly fell back and built a defense around the largest building in the center. Even still, I had a glimmer of hope until his reinforcements arrived on turn 3 just in time to turn the tide in the center. I managed to get a foothold in the third building by the last turn but was too bled out to do much with it. As usual in any scenario, I made a few mistakes in tactics, but the biggest was not setting up a MG nest in the I4 building which would have hindered his movement from west to east. Overall, all it was close game. Dale is a great guy and gave me a couple helpful tips. Fun scenario well worth a replay.
This was awesome. It came down to one last roll in a Russian/German Melee. Russians won the roll. it was a 2-1 Russia roll and a 1-4 roll for the Germans, CXed.
Great scenario. Germans captured two right side locations. Attack stalled as flanking element was driven back. Reaction force arrive and reinforced the final location. Final assault from the right wad stopped dead in the open ground in final turn. Russians win.
This was a scenario with a returning ASL player who is refreshing his rules knowledge. The Germans set up with almost all his forces on the Russian right flank. He led off with heavy Prep Fire, but rolled almost exclusively high while the Russian Conscripts rolled low. The few units that could move were broken or pinned. Turn 2 was executed much better with the Germans crossing the road in force. After the German Turn 3, the Russian forces were vanquished on the left and seriously depleted in the center. However, the Russian player was able to receive his reinforcements on Turn 3, which quickly turned the tide. The Germans pressed on to the center, but could make only slow progress. At Turn 6 the Russians still had firm control of two buildings with no hope of being dislodged. Had the Germans played Turn 1 like Turn 2 or had the Russian reinforcements arrived any later, the outcome would have been very much in the air.
Solo scenario. russian victory by keeping control of one location
The Germans isolated the western VC objective with a kill stack covering the north/south road, and then executed a masterful assault on the eastern two objectives with 3/4s of his force, including all the engineers, the FT and DCs. The Germans captured both of the eastern objectives by Turn 3, and decimated the defending Russian force. Even with the arrival of the Russian "shock group" reinforcements in Turn 3, the German force swung westward and captured the remaining objective at the end of Turn 5. Well done, Mark!
Used the defense discussed in the Banzai magazine. Very good for learning.
Again shameless copied the position from the Banzai Magazin for the German attack. Learned a lot about smoke use and FTs.
A very nice scenario. The Germans were helped by the late arrival of the Russian reinforcements (in the last turn...). However, the issue of the game was decided in the very last turn with the control (FT mediated) by the German troops of the third building. Meanwhile, the Russian "Shock group" tried to recapture another building and were halted in the last CC. A bloody ending for a thrilling game !
SK game played at the Spreading Blaze ASL Tourney in Atlanta this week! Had the great opportunity sit down across the table from the same great player/teacher/mentor/Tournament Director I played my very first ASLSK game with 18 months ago! Many thanks for the match Gary!
Poor Germans made almost no headway against the Russians in the two western buildings. The only building taken was undefended F8. Sad.
Another bloody slugfest in Stalingrad. Despite ineffective PrepF and AdvF on the first few turns, the Germans successfully secured the first building on the north and crossed the road to the center building. Continued assaults suffered heavy casualties aided by numerous 1,1 Russian rolls. In return, the Russian losses were also heavy. The Germans seized control of the final building on Turn 6. With one MMC and 9-2 leader, the Russians hoped to retake one building hex in CC. German DefF failed to stop them 3 times. However, on the low odds 4th DefF shot, the Germans succeeded in eliminating the Russian leader and breaking the MMC ended the scenario for a win.
Germans broke last Russians in last building during Advancing Fire Phase of Turn 6 to win.
Good game, very tense for the Germans attacking into the Russian line. Germans quickly captured the one building to the west, before stalling against the two eastern buildings. Ended with troops in both eastern buildings, but locked in melee and unable to gain control.
First day done. Russians lost the western building complex. Reinforcements show up early, which has slowed the central buildings loss.
Incredible loss, with a huge stack on O7 breaking every squad after receiving a flame thrower attack
Great game! I had two of the three victory buildings by turn two but just couldn't root the Russians out of the last one. Soviet shock force came in on turn two which didn't help. Well played by my opponent who didn't let some early reversals cost him the game.
My opponent, as the Germans, set up heavy on my left flank. Fortunately, I had set up far back as possible forcing him to move into firing range. I pinned some of his units which reduced the effectiveness of his advancing fire. His return fire broke some units that were able to route to safety with my 8-1.
The pressure was intense with his multiple kill stacks aggressively moving in. To stem the tide, I advanced a lone squad into the closest stack and was able to draw it into melee tying it up. That left my 8-1, MMG, and two squads in H8 free to fire point blank at another stack lead by a 9-2 moving into G9. The leader fell, two squads broke, one reduced. Then on the LLC another was eliminated and another reduced.
With the potential for reinforcements arriving and the heavy losses the Germans seceded from battle in the bottom of the second.
Loic is a new player; yet his application of tactics at this level was perfect. Great game!
The Germans took some heavy casualties early on, losing some important 548s and the FT, but managed to come back to the fight. In the end the Russians won by holding building F8. Nice game.
German advance on the east side was thrown back despite good FT result. The advance on the west broke half the Russian defenders and made it across the road. On Turn 2 the German force on the east rallied and quickly advanced. Weak Russian MMG placement allowed the German player to consolidate the gains and seize the last building with force while maintaining strong defensive position against Russian reinforcements. Game called at the end of Turn 4.
German initial assault was thrown back with losses delaying his advance. Russian reinforcements arrived on Turn 4 entering on the western side where the German player left only one squad to hold the western building. Russian reoccupied and held the building to game end.
Germans were able to capture all the victory locations before the reinforcements arrived making it very hard to retake. Called it on turn 4.
German first turn Prep Fire eliminated or broke two key Russian defensive positions with good die rolls. Russian tried to hold off, but broke and was eliminated by envelopment. Russian reinforcements never arrived. Germans eliminated all Russian units by the end of Turn 4.
Play and teach game...German had hard 1st turn then rolled from there. Lack of reinforcements hurt Russian
Russian reinforcements enter the game Turn 2. Helped to resist. Easy win due to the lack of experience of the German side player. Enjoyed the game.
Solid German win - partly due to lack of Russian reinforcements. Good smoke and rally rolls. FT was ineffective.
Still learning. Went to the last turn. Late Russian reinforcements. Good game
The Russians resisted the German assault and won a CC at 1:4 odds ratio that allowed them to take back the control of a building.
First game since a (very) long time. Great enjoyment. I tried to launch a fast attack on the west side but the Russians had a strong defense. A lost CC buried my thin hopes.
German dispersed his troops trying to take all VC buildings at once, and almost succeeded thanks to some extremely long row of low rolls. When luck tide went out F8 building was well out of reach and the German conceded. Nice game, though. Quite good for learning some basics.
In a rather embarrassing performance, the Russian commander confused the victory conditions and stalwartly defended an unimportant building. Nice game nonetheless.
Nick is a new player. His initial turn was typical for a new player: plenty of prep fire and no results. He quickly ramped up the aggressive nature required to attack and ended up in one turn engaging in 4 (four!) close combat attacks against me. In each attack he had the better odds and ended up taking out the objective buildings in quick succession on turns 4 to 6. Great match!
Lost my German FT on the first turn but Marco left an opening on the far flank and I steamrolled through with some nice rolls. Had a demo charge do some damage in the main area and after that, it was mostly just mopping up.
Rendici�n en Turno 3.
Scenario was a good one as always - great intro to city fighting ASLSK style. Clark made some mistakes in his setup and took a few too many FPF shots with brittle conscripts, and ended up conceding in turn 3 when his reinforcements failed to show up and the Germans had control of all three victory buildings.
Was fun to get back to the starter kits after getting started that way myself about a decade ago. If we had more time, I would have probably just jumped in and taught him the full game, but since we were trying to get a learning scenario finished on a week night, SK was the perfect way to go. We'll switch to full ASL in no time!
My second game. I lost badly, felt like there was no chance by the end of the third round. Forfeited after the 5th. My biggest mistake was not fire grouping enough.
Always a good scenario. A couple last turn CCs sealed the deal but it was really decided in a nasty Russian PFPh...
Germans used their toys to good effect (i.e. FT didn't X), and Russians didn't get their reinforcements until Turn 6, when it was far too late.
Russians focused defenses mostly on eastern side while Germans attempted a blended approach. Fierce fighting in the north led to a crippled German killstack while conscript skulking in the far southwest kept the flamethrower from reaching the objective buildings.
A combination of overly aggressive usage of FPF with my conscripts, and some truly horrific rolls, left me with 4 GO squads on the back half of turn two. We called it after I lost another two squads in CC.
Tried to do a quick turn on this scenario, but ended up calling it after two hours. The German's dice just didn't want to roll good. Lots of breaks and no MCs/Ks when firing.
I played very aggressively. Got lucky with dice rolls on turn 1 and that set the whole tone of the game. David gave up during my phase of turn 4 as I was about to take the third building.
I played as the Russians. Should have been more aggressive. Should have used smoke more.
We had to leave the game in the russia 5th turn with some advantage for the germans. In the turn and a half left the germans had everything almost done to finish winning
Germans were very tentative in crossing the street, opting to shoot more often than scoot. Not sure that I blame them though as the Russians had two monster kill stacks holding down the flanks.
Snakes on a crucial CC really ended the day for the Germans...
This was a reintroduction to ASL for me. It was a fun fast scenario. And it turned out my poor initial placement did not matter, as I rolled 12 after 12 after 12, defying the laws of statistical probability.
A brutal Russian counterattack sealed this one. Solo.
Soviet Reinforcements on Turn one is a disaster.
Russian won as they could survive in one of the buiding hex. As the German, I forgot to use the smoke which could probably have made the difference.
Effective use of smoke is essential in this fun scenario.
玩到第2回合德军行动完后，苏军死伤过半，AraKalLek掀桌了
Gabe and I decided to try the 2nd ASLSK scenario. For some reason he wanted to play the Russians, so I let him setup. He did a pretty good job (only his 2nd game) keeping his forces back to avoid the 9-2 German death star, but he left a few of the approach hexes undefended and allowed my Germans to get up close and personal. I whittled him down, breaking squads and pushing him back. He could have used his reinforcements a turn earlier, they came in on Russian 3. By then, my Germans had the advantage and he had to counterattack. The flamethrower broke the 9-2 stack in the woods and his 5-2-7 squads kept pinning and he conceded after Turn 4 when I broke his final 5-2-7. He lost 2 leaders to wounds and the 9-1 to close combat. German victory.
Germans successfully used all SW and smoke to full advantage, going up the middle to divide and conquer.
The german strategy was to first focus their attack on the 2 most weakly defended buildings. However, it was not as quick as expected and the russian were successful in defending the last building.
Germans decimated as they crossed the street
Russians took a bit of a battering and couldn't stop the German advance.
Russian reinforcements arrive turn 2, Germans suffered early casualties and flame thrower loss, could never push further.
Germans overpowered Russians (placed units too close to German start), Russians gave up turn 2
Germans overpowered Russians,Russians gave up 3rd turn
Easy VASSAL win against Padawan. Defenses were too exposed and I just blasted them and then quickly take the buildings.
Interesting scenario. Took a severe beating from flamethrower. Demo charges never really played a big part. Got my reinforcements on the last turn but he was too well setup in the buildings by then. Russian really needs to have a good fallback plan before setup.
Brutal beating. Held out 'til last turn, but was utterly destroyed.
Defended an extra building to Russian dismay.
Russians set up in the VC buildings, allowing easy German attack. Russian conceded in Turn 3, lacking any on board MMC (still waiting on reinforcements).
Amazing game! Russian leaders killed two german leaders and a squad in CC! Tight game!
down to the last die roll, a CC with the reinforcements as a half squad made it and killed the a german squad but then died themselves
Rematch of an earlier playing. The Russians defended a lot better but again broke and ran at inopportune times. The reinforcements showed up and were mauled.
Went until the last turn, when my close combat rush couldn't succeed in knocking him out of a building.
Terrible First fire from the German in 1rst turn let no chance to the Russian. Russian reinforcement sleep till turn 4, too late to change the end.
Lopsided German win But Amis still had a chance going into final turn. Didn't receive reinforcement until turn 5!!
Got my reinforcements early, big help.
One flippin' russian reinforcement snook into CC in one building on the last turn!!!
Russians didn't get their reinforcements! Won by half a squad.
The Russkies made me pay to heavy a price to get across that first street. Close game, still had a slim shot to win on the last turn. Well played by Jeff.

# ? Mar 1, 2024 15:02

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 28, 2024 06:38

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

I bought a little dice tower to do my rolls in while I'm playing for a little bit of authenticity

# ? Mar 3, 2024 04:59

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

I respect how nerdy you are being about this.

# ? Mar 3, 2024 12:50

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

War of the Rats, Round Two - with tougher Hesitation rules

We're going back to this same scenario, but we are using alternative rules to make Hesitation checks tougher to pass, while also applying them even to non-open hexes:

___

We'll be using the same opening set-up, though this is more because I did give it a think and couldn't come up with any new ideas, rather than a deliberate attempt to duplicate the circumstances of the first playthrough precisely. Knowing what I know now, I think I would have spread out the Soviets even more, like to L5, E8, and E9, and not stack so much in J5.

But, on with the game.

GER turn 1

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

A 548 squad and a 9-2 leader attempts to move from F5 to F6

Referring back to that chart of Hesitation checks, with an open hex, moving adjacent to an enemy unit, means Target Number of 2; with a -1 DRM for an Elite squad, and -2 DRM for leadership

A 3 is rolled, modified to 0, which passes.

The 548 also attempts Demo Charge placement in G7 - if the 548 is still in Good Order after the Defensive Fire phase, the DC will explode at the start of the Close Combat Phase

The other 548 with a DC in F5 attempts to move to G6. It rolls a 5 on the HC and halts.

Another 548, in G5, attempts to move to H5, and it rolls a 2 on the HC and halts.

now, per the Hesitation rules, once a unit fails to enter a hex due to Hesitation, no other unit can try to enter that same hex, so the second 548 in G5 cannot even attempt to get to G6 or H5, and it has to take a longer route around

even entering F5 requires a Hesitation check, since it is within LOS and range of enemy units - but the TN is high, at a 6, and the squad rolls a 1 on the HC and passes

entering E6, an open hex, has a TN of 5, and the squad rolls a 2 and passes

entering E7, an open hex adjacent to an enemy, has a TN of 2 (as we've seen previously), but the squad rolls a natural 1, modified to 0, and also passes

finally, two 467s in H4 attempt to move to I5, but they roll a 2 on the TN 2, and halt in place

I will not be as verbose in going through the movement phase as we go along, but since we're dealing with new mechanics here, I'm going through it step-by-step.

Fire Phase

The Flamethrower in H4 shoots at J5, to no effect

The stack in I4 shoots at J5, but also to no effect

The stack in J3 shoots at J5, and they get an ELR check result - the Soviets pass the ELR check with a 3, which causes the 8-1 leader (based on random selection) to go Berserk. This is actually a bad thing, for reasons that will become painfully clear very soon.

Defensive Fire Phase

lots of no-effect results here. The 426 in F7 gets an ELR check against the 548, but it passes.

The MMG stack in J5 does roll well, and it gets the German stack in H4 to break.

Close Combat Phase

The DC that was planted in G7 explodes - the 30 FP attack rolls a 10, which breaks all 6-morale units or lower, but since the 426 there are conscripts with only 6 morale, then they not only break, but they also get eliminated for failure-to-rout:

- hex G8 is within LOS of the 548 in F6
- hex H7 is within LOS of the 548 in G5
- F7 is not an eligible rout hex because it reduce range to a Known Enemy Unit, such as reducing the range to the 548 in E7 from 2 to 1
- H6 is not an eligible rout hex because it reduces range to a KEU, such as reducing the range to the stack in I4 from 4 to 3

the 548 and the 9-2 leader advances to the new-empty hex in G7,

while the 548 in E7 advances into Close Combat with the conscripts in F7

quote:

CC in F7
GER FP = 5; 5:4 odds = 1:1 = 2 to 5 kill range; CC roll = 6 = no effect
SOV FP = 4; 4:5 odds = 1:2 = 2 to 4 kill range; CC roll = 3 = GER KIA
GER 548 eliminated

The Soviets fight tenaciously despite their green status, and beat back the Germans.

End of GER turn 1

# ? Mar 4, 2024 11:33

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Much more mixed bag this time around. Hesitation seemed to have much more of an effect and the assault on the left Soviet flank was less successful, but that Berserk result does mean that a whole stack of Soviets are gonna be charging across the street...

# ? Mar 4, 2024 12:16

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Curious as to why the 4-2-6 was eliminated for failure to rout. Or am I just forgetting something specific to ASLSK?

# ? Mar 4, 2024 12:37

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Curious as to why the 4-2-6 was eliminated for failure to rout. Or am I just forgetting something specific to ASLSK?

it's Retro's routing rules

if a unit is broken by fire, and it's in a non-open hex, or is adjacent to an enemy, it needs to rout [at the moment it was broken, as part of the fire attack's resolution]
the broken unit needs to head for the closest non-open hex, within 4 MF
they cannot enter hexes that would bring them closer to enemy units
if they enter an open hex that is within line-of-sight and normal range of an enemy unit, they are eliminated

I guess it's technically more accurate to say that the 426 would have entered G8 or H7, and then got eliminated that way

# ? Mar 4, 2024 13:00

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Gross.

# ? Mar 4, 2024 14:07

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

SOV turn 1

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

- red: the 8-1 leader, because they're Berserk, charges across the street. I still make them take a Hesitation check, but they pass

to be clear, the Berserk status gained from the ELR check only applies to a single unit in the stack, chosen at random, so they weren't obliged to support the leader with all the rest of the troops as they did this.

- yellow: the Soviets can sort of already see that the left-wing sweep might develop again, so they try to move squads south to block the I hex-row, but only get as far as one hex down before Hesitation holds them up. There's even another 447 in J5 that couldn't make it to J6

- teal: the Soviets also recognize the value of taking the house at the N3 intersection, so they try to move a squad there, but the conscripts are easily suppressed

Fire Phase

lots of shots taken, but to no effect

Defensive Fire Phase

on the left, the stack in H6 breaks, then gets eliminated during the rout process (all hexes are either adjacent to enemy units, or are open hexes within LOS/range of Good Order enemies)

and then the Berserking leader is just shot to pieces outright

Close Combat Phase

the conscripts on the left withdraw to defend the objective building directly and to break LOS with some of the rest of the Germans, while the 447 in the center thinks better of staying out in the orchards and hops back into a building

End of SOV turn 1

# ? Mar 5, 2024 03:04

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Is that a Retro rule thing to change the ELR happenings on a leader? ASL would see all the units with the Leader roll to see if they fail(?) the berserk check. I believe Commissars automatically force everyone to Berserk...

# ? Mar 5, 2024 04:31

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Is that a Retro rule thing to change the ELR happenings on a leader? ASL would see all the units with the Leader roll to see if they fail(?) the berserk check. I believe Commissars automatically force everyone to Berserk...

yep

rolling a 3 is specifically what happened in this case, so only one unit went Berserk - I rolled a d4 and the result corresponded to the leader

# ? Mar 5, 2024 04:41

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Not even SS go berserk? That's... strange.

Its like they just took the Human Wave rules and said "That's Berserk now and also much worse"

# ? Mar 5, 2024 04:44

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 2

Rally Phase

out of the wholly-broken stack in H4, the leader, and two out of the three squads successfully rally.

Movement Phase

The 548 and 9-2 stack in the south moves towards the objective building, passing its Hesitation check easily

another 548 from F5 dashes across the street, and tries to go for broke, but halts at the second crossing.

quote:

There is one more additional optional Hesitation rule, which is that a natural 6 is always a failed Hesitation check, in order to prevent "free movement" (my phrasing) in cases where Elite squads and/or leaders make it impossible to fail Hesitation checks. That would have applied to the move to H6, where the 548 rolled a natural 6, but then the -1 DRM for being Elite modified the roll to 5 and let it pass. I did not implement that rule in this play-through, but it's something to consider. In the event, the 548 did fail to get to I7 anyway.

The other thing to mention here is that while ending movement in I7 would have left the 548 in an open hex during the Defensive Fire Phase (then it advances to an orchard in the Close Combat Phase), the J5 stack wouldn't have shot at it, since the I4 and J3 stacks take priority in the Defensive Fire selection.

the other 548 tries to dash across the street as well, but Hesitates at the first step

quote:

In this case, the Hesitation TN was 3, for an open hex within less-than-half range of an MG - the MMG in J5. The 548 rolled a 5, modified to a 4 for being Elite, which was still too high.

Since both of the 548s failed to get into a position to assault the J5 hex, the rest of the German force is going to forego any further attempts to move in, and will use Prep Fire instead. The only remaining units are 467s, and even with a -1 leadership DRM, they've only got a 30% chance of making the Hesitation check.

Not to say that that's impossible, but having to survive the Defensive Fire phase, and then needing to deal with a 3-stack of 447s is a daunting ask. I do feel like this is a more interesting dilemma to deal with than the first run-through of the scenario.

Fire Phase

The flamethrower in H4 misses, but the 30 FP fire group across I4 and J3 rolls snake-eyes, and since it's leader-directed fire, there's no cowering. All three Soviet 447s are eliminated.

Defensive Fire Phase

The defenders open up, but to no effect.

Close Combat Phase

The 9-2 stack advances to the southern objective, and during the close combat they roll low enough to win without even needing the leader DRM.

End of GER turn 2

# ? Mar 6, 2024 04:11

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

SOV turn 2

Rally Phase

The Soviets roll for reinforcements, but fail (5 on a target of < 2)

Movement Phase

- green: one of the conscript squads in K5 jumps to the other building to man the MMG again

- teal: the 447 with the LMG and its 8-0 leader moves to L7. The idea here being that the LMG is now covering the left-hand approach to the middle building

- yellow: the 426 in O5 passes its Hesitation check this time, but uses it to man the position that the LMG just left

Fire Phase

no fire taken

quote:

The 426 in K5, if it had tried to shoot anything, would not accomplish anything: if they roll snake eyes, that's a final DR of 5, but also counts as a cower, and a 5 on an FP 2 attack is no-effect. If they roll a natural 3, for a final DR of 6, a 6 on an FP 4 attack is also no-effect.

[if this were full ASL and we were playing with snipers, it's my understanding that it's important to be aware of "useless" shots like this, because you don't want to give the enemy opportunities for sniper activation for no good reason]

Defensive Fire Phase

the Soviets get a storm of steel coming down on them, and their men are forced to abandon the MMG once again

quote:

the 30 FP fire group across I4 and J3 rolled a final DR of 12 to no effect, but the 9 FP fire group across G5 and H4 rolled snake-eyes: that comes out to a 5 + cower after the DRM, but even a 5 on the 4 FP column was enough to break 6-morale squads. The perils of working with conscripts.

that said, I don't think I needed to rout them to the other building. Oops.

Close Combat Phase

the remaining Good Order 426 uses the advance to move back into J5 anyway

quote:

As I understand the ASL rules, an MMC has an Inherent Portage Capacity of 3 PP. The Soviet MMG has a PP cost of 5 printed on it, so that means the just-broken squad could not have brought it with them when they routed, and it gets dropped on the ground, which is why I then needed to send the other Good Order 426 into the same hex to "recover" the MMG.

A German MMG costs 3 PP, and the LMGs for the two sides both cost 1 PP, so those can be brought along by squads that are routing / have routed.

End of SOV turn 2

# ? Mar 7, 2024 02:19

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 3

Rally Phase

the remaining 467 that missed its rally last turn, gets it

Movement Phase

the 9-2 stack that just captured the southern building dashes to the orchards near the middle objective, passing three Hesitation checks in the process.

meanwhile three squads make attempts to get adjacent to the Soviet MMG team, but are suppressed (i.e. they keep failing their TN 2 Hesitation checks)

Fire Phase

the flamethrower in H4 runs out of fuel and has to be discarded, but the I4 / J3 fire group rolls well and gets to break their second conscript squad in as many turns

quote:

I'm still not really sure I'm doing routing correctly

Defensive Fire Phase

the LMG team in the middle building takes shots at the incoming Germans, but to no effect

Close Combat Phase

finally, that same stack moves one hex to enter a building at K8

quote:

reminder that in Retro, the one-hex advance cannot be used to move into an open hex, such as K8, unless it will result in a close combat, so you cannot use the Close Combat phase to circumvent an open-hex Hesitation check that you cannot seem to pass

so the intent here is to come from the south: J8 to K9 to L8 are going to be easy/guaranteed passes for that elite/9-2 stack

End of GER turn 3

# ? Mar 8, 2024 02:49

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

You def could have routed further if using ASL rules, unless Retro changes some stuff I'm unaware of.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 03:09

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

SOV turn 3

The Soviets roll for reinforcements, and fail again (5 on a target of < 3)

Rally Phase

the two broken squads in K5 are not in reach of a leader, and so cannot rally.

Movement Phase

the two remaining Soviet squads withdraw to the last objective

quote:

The thinking here is - the German 9-2 stack with the 548 is in J8, and they can move to K9 then L8, then advance into L7 for close combat. Because K9 and L8 are both stone buildings, the stack is going to pass the Hesitation checks. The worst-case is a TN of 5, and with a -2 DRM from the leader and a -1 from being elite, even a roll of a natural 6 is going to be a 3.

By withdrawing to the third building, the Germans are going to be forced to (A) reposition their MG squads to get into a firing position if they want to shoot the Soviets off their hexes, and (B) approach the objective by having to cross open hexes, which present low enough Hesitation thresholds to potentially trigger failed checks.

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

while O7 is in LOS of J3 and J8, the range is beyond 3 hexes, so no defensive fire is triggered.

Close Combat Phase

no advances, no combats

End of SOV turn 3

# ? Mar 9, 2024 04:41

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 4

Rally phase

nothing to Rally

Movement Phase

- green: the two big MG stacks move across the street and into the L hex-row, setting themselves up to move to M5/M6 during the Close Combat phase without triggering Hesitation checks (teal)

- yellow: the stack of the 548 and 9-2 moves aggressively towards the last objective. They're risking fire, but they want to get a "beachhead" onto the final block of buildings before the Soviets block it with hard-to-pass adjacency Hesitation

- orange: and the rest of the German squads move up as well

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

the two Soviet squads form a fire group and shoot at the Germans on the street. They roll snake eyes and eliminate them outright. Even cowering wouldn't have mattered because a 2 on the 6 FP column (instead of the 8 FP column) still results in a KIA.

If the Soviets rolled as much as a 6, the Landsers could have gotten away with it, but this time the conscripts were on-target.

Close Combat Phase

as planned, the rest of the German forces use the CC phase's one-hex movement to advance further.

quote:

I realize at this point that the two broken Soviet squads in K5 are still there, and the Germans just passed through them. I think that might have triggered another rout, but in any case there's no way the Soviets are getting to them anytime soon, and they might well have been eliminated due to failure-to-rout, so it's mostly inconsequential for now.

End of GER turn 4

# ? Mar 11, 2024 03:17

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

SOV turn 4

The Soviets roll for reinforcements, and succeed (2 on a target of < 4)
The reinforcements will arrive this turn

Rally Phase

nothing to rally

Movement Phase

the reinforcements appear in hex O10

moving together as a stack, they cross the street and enter the city block where the remaining Soviet forces are holding on, passing three Hesitation checks as they do so

Fire Phase

the remaining squads take their shots at the Germans, but to no effect

Defensive Fire Phase

The Germans return fire, but nothing is achieved here, either.

quote:

In this case, the German stacks did not form fire groups, because per the rules of target selection, they were all supposed to shoot at different targets:
M5 had to shoot at O6, because O7 was one hex farther
M6 had to shoot at O7, because O7 had more units than O6, and O8 was farther
M7 had to shoot at O8, because O8 had more units than the other two equidistant hexes

Close Combat Phase

The Soviets use the Close Combat advance to rearrange their defensive positions

from top to bottom, we've got:

O5 - a single 426
O6 - a 447 with an LMG, and an 8-0 leader
O7 - two 527s, one with an LMG, and a 9-2 leader
O8 - a single 527

quote:

by deploying this way, all of the street hexes along hex-row N4 to N8, plus O4 and O9, are going to require TN 2 Hesitation checks, and the Germans might not have enough time within their two remaining turns to take it slowly (which is why they tried to rush across with the 9-2 stack last turn in the first place)

End of SOV turn 4

# ? Mar 12, 2024 02:09

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Looks really close this time, hopefully the soviets manage to hold on!

# ? Mar 12, 2024 07:32

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 5

Rally phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

quote:

Let's consider our options. Moving adjacent to an enemy unit on an open hex will cause a Hesitation check of TN 2, which means only a result of 1 (or less) will pass.

1. The 548s in the back can reach the N hex-row, and they'll have a -1 DRM to the HC, which means they'd have a 33% chance of passing the check.

2. The 467s in the M hex-row would also have a -1 DRM to the HC, since we have two -1 leaders that can accompany them. Unfortunately we can't have the 548s take advantage of leader direction, since they didn't start on the same hex together.

3. The Germans have an SSR where the smoke exponent of the 548s are increased to 4, which means they have a 66% chance of successfully placing smoke, and that grants a -2 DRM on the HC. We'd miss out on the 548s being able to attempt a crossing, but it'd increase the chances of the 467s to 66% in turn.

4. Another wrinkle though is the 9-2 Soviet leader in hex O7. Per the Hesitation rules we're working with, leader direction on the part of the defender is going to apply as a positive DRM on the HC, which means:

4.1 moving to N6 and N7 without smoke is going to be a roll of [-1+2 DRM < 2]. That's a guaranteed failure.

4.2 moving to N6 and N7 with smoke is going be a roll of [-1+2-2 < 2]. That's a 33% chance of success

4.2 moving to N5 and N8, relative to O7, is considered to have a TN of 3 (open hex, MG within less than half of normal range (6-range MMG at a 2-hex target)). Without smoke, that'a roll of -1+2 DRM < 3], or a 16% chance of success. That's worse than the mere adjacency in option #1.

4.3 moving to N4, relative to O7, is considered to have a TN of 4 (open hex, MG or MMC within normal range). Without smoke, that's a roll of [-1+2 DRM < 4], or a 33% chance of success. That's the same as the TN of 2 imposed by the directly-adjacent Soviet squads.

So, we actually need the smoke just to even have a chance of getting to N6 and N7, though N4 and N5 are potential movement targets in the case of failure.

first, the 548s move up, and both them successfully place smoke on the streets

(for clarity, there were already three squads stacked in M7, so the 548 in L7 had to move to M8 instead)

then, a 467 with an LMG, and a 9-1 leader, passes the Hesitation Check to make it to N5...

... but nobody else does. Two 467s and an 8-1 in M6 roll a 2, and three 467s in M7 roll a 3, and halt from Hesitation.

Fire Phase

The MMG in M5 shoots at the stack in O7, and roll well enough to break the two 7-morale squads, but not the 9-2 leader.

The MMG rolls ROF twice and takes shots at O6, but doesn't get anything done on subsequent shots.

Defensive Fire Phase

The Soviets take their shots, but the best they can manage is forcing an ELR check on the 9-1 stack, and they pass it handily.

Close Combat Phase

The Germans that made it onto the street close in on O6, but the melee is inconclusive at this time.

End of GER turn 5

# ? Mar 13, 2024 02:00

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

SOV turn 5

Rally Phase

the two 527s broken by German fire last turn are rallied

Movement Phase

quote:

Now we are going to (try to) do a little thing called skulking: during the movement phase, move one hex back, to break LOS with the enemy, so that they cannot shoot you during the Defensive Fire phase, and then use the one-hex movement during the Close Combat Phase (or the Advance Phase in regular ASL) to move back to your original position before the end of your turn.

Doing this, you miss out on being able to do your own [Prep] Fire, but you can (usually) guarantee that your troops are still in Good Order during the opponent's turn and can provide defensive fire then.

quote:

426 in O5 attempts to move to P5
Hesitation: TN 6; +1 DRM; HC = 6 = halts

Of course, if the Hesitation kicks in, then it still doesn't work.

but the two other movements do work: the O7 stack didn't even need to take a Hesitation check, since there's no enemy LOS to P6, and the 527 in O8 passed their check

Fire Phase

All units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

The Germans form a big fire group against the one exposed Soviet squad, and they crumble under the pressure.

Close Combat Phase

the stack in P6 breaks up: one 527 carrying an LMG moves to O7 to continue securing the streets, while the other 527 and the 9-2 leader joins in the melee at O6

[quote]I think I might have forgetten to move the 527 in P7 back into O8. The point of skulking is that you return to the hex you were previously occupying. Oops.

quote:

CC in O6
GER FP = 8; 8:13 odds = 1:2 = 2 to 4 kill range, -1 DRM; CC roll = 10 = no effect
SOV FP = 13; 13:8 odds = 3:2 = 2 to 6 kill range, -2 DRM; CC roll = 4 = GER KIA

the GER 467 and the 9-1 leader are eliminated

End of SOV turn 5

# ? Mar 15, 2024 03:06

Jobbo_Fett: Mar 7, 2014; Slava Ukrayini; Clapping Larry

Unsubbed for use of skulking.

# ? Mar 15, 2024 03:32

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 6

Time to go for broke. This is the last turn.

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

first, the 548 in M8 tries to place smoke on the street. They roll a 5, which fails.

then, the whole stack in M7 attempts to move to N7. They roll a 3 on the Hesitation Check, which fails.

the other 548, in M6, actually does succeed in placing smoke in N6 ...

... but when the stack actually tries to move into the hex, they roll a natural 5 on the Hesitation Check. This gets reduced to 3 after the leader direction and the smoke, but that's still not enough to pass the target number of 2 for moving adjacent to an enemy on an open hex.

At this point, the scenario is effectively over - with a victory for the Soviets.

Even if the 467 in M5 with the MMG manages to pass the Hesitation check to move to N5, and survives the Defensive Fire phase, and closes-in to Close Combat in O6, and wins the combat... that only seizes one hex of the objective building, and the Soviets would still have control of O7.

This was a much closer fight than the last two scenarios we've played through, with a far less obvious outcome and a less obvious approach. The Germans could have waited one turn longer: hold the 9-2 leader back, consolidate the 548s, use turn 5 to shoot them off their positions, and surge strong in turn 6.

Up next: we're going back to Vierville, using these tougher Hesitation rules again, to see how that shakes out.

# ? Mar 18, 2024 09:27

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Retaking Vierville, Round 2

as promised, we're taking another shot at this scenario, but using the tougher Hesitation rules, and adding one more: a natural 6 on the Hesitation Check is always a Halt, regardless of modifiers. I did not use such a rule in the previous scenario, but will do so here.

The initial set-up. The Americans changed things up a bit compared to the first time we played this. As before, the win condition is for all four marked objective hexes to be free of Good Order German units by the end of the game.

GER turn 1

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

a German platoon enters from the top of the map...

- green: a single 447 moves to the building at J1, passing a Hesitation Check as it does so
- orange: another 447 moves to H3, staying out of line-of-sight the whole time
- teal: a third 447, with a 7-0 leader, dashes to J3, handily passing another HC

and then a second platoon enters from the bottom of the map...

- green: a single 467 enters at K10, and moves just outside of the building at L7, stopping at L8

quote:

Note: the follow-up is going to be an advance into L7 during the Close Combat phase. I bring this up because all of the other moves done this phase could have been done the same way, in order to avoid needing to pass Hesitation checks.

- teal: another 467 also enters at K10, moves through the woods, and enters the building at K8, passing an HC to do so
- orange: a third 467, with an 8-1 leader, enters at I10, and moves to the edge of the treeline at J7, also passing an HC

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

The Americans fire the first shots of the scenario. The attack against K2 has no effect; and while the Germans in the woods at J7 do take an ELR check, they pass it, so the GIs get no results.

Close Combat Phase

the Germans use the CC phase to make their one hex movements, creeping closer to their objectives.

End of GER turn 1

# ? Mar 19, 2024 13:26

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

USA turn 1

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

The paratroopers fan out, with an emphasis on securing good spots for the bottom-facing set of objectives.

Our new rule does come into play this early, with the 747 and the 8-1 leader Halting right out in the open after rolling a natural 6 on what should have been a Hesitation Check that was impossible to fail otherwise.

American reinforcements also arrive: two 747s and an 8-1 leader head for the orchard outside of town, while another 747 marches on over to that house at hex R7.

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

- red: the GER 447 in K2 shoots at the stack of paras out in the open. They get a "7" result, which breaks the USA 747 squad, but the 8-1 passes.

The 747 is eliminated for failure to rout: M3, N2, O3, O4, and N4 are all open hexes with LOS of a Good Order Known Enemy Unit, and M4 cannot be entered despite being a non-open hex because it would bring the 747 closer to a Good Order KEU.

- yellow: a storm of fire greets the troops in K6, but the house provides great cover, and nothing happens.

Close Combat Phase

lastly, the squads use the one-hex movement to advance, though that 8-1 leader is now hanging out very close to the enemy with no protection.

End of USA turn 1

# ? Mar 21, 2024 11:22

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 2

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

- green: the 447 in K2 moves to L2, then to the objective hex in L3, passing an Hesitation Check as it does so

- red: the 467 in L7 tries to move to M7, but fails the HC

- orange: the 467 in K8 passes the move to L7, but then also fails the HC trying to get to L6

quote:

note that moving to L6 or M7 has a target number of 2 for the HC; the rolls in this case were 2 and a 6, respectively, hence the failures.

- yellow: the 467 and 8-1 in J7 tries to move to J6, to assault K6, but they roll a 2 and fail the HC. Similarly, the 447 and 7-0 in K4 tries to move to K5, but they roll a 6 and also fail.

- teal: the 447 in I4 passes the HC to get to J4 (which is an orchard with a TN of 6), but fails again at the adjacent hex J5.

then, German reinforcements arrive

- green: a 548 enters at K10 and moves into the treeline at K9

- teal: two 548s and a 9-1 leader enter at S10 and pass two HCs to end adjacent to the occupied house at R7

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

- green:

quote:

The 747 in K6 is equidistant from three stacks: K4, J7, and L7. And all three stacks are of similar size. As such, Retro rules state the targets should be picked randomly. This is one instance where predetermined defensive fire target selection is arguably to the attacker's benefit, since there is a 447 in J4 standing in orchard that would be a much easier shot than the three stacks, but since it's just one unit compared to the two units in each of the three other hexes, it can't be included in the target selection.

In the event, random selection chose the stack in J7; the result was an ELR check, but the Germans passed it

- yellow: the M6 and N6 squads shoot L7, but to no effect

- orange: the 747 in the house at R7 shoots the coming platoon, and they obtain an ELR check, but the Germans pass it again.

Close Combat

- green: the American leader at M4, and the squad at R7, are both engaged in Close Combat

- teal: the 548 in the forest uses its advance to move to the building at K8

- orange: the 447 in the orchard at J4 moves to the building at J5. In this case, it uses the advance to slink back into the cover of a stone building. It would seem like a bad idea to stay out in the open and then pray to survive until GER turn 3.

during close combat resolution, the lone American leader is eliminated (unsurprisingly, they were facing 4:1 odds), but the fighting in R7 is inconclusive.

The state of play at the end of the turn:

End of GER turn 2

# ? Mar 22, 2024 05:51

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

USA turn 2

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

two 747 squads and an 8-1 leader move out of P5 and Q6, and hustle to R6.

quote:

No hesitation checks here since the GER units embroiled in the CC cannot impose it, so the Americans are going to seize the opportunity to crush the squads in this hex. The thinking here is that the position in K6/M6/N6 has proven to be fairly difficult to approach so far, so the squads can hold there, and the L2/M4 sector can be dealt with later

additional reinforcements arrive in the form of two more 747s and an 8-0 leader, and move to the center of the town

Fire Phase

the two squads in M6 and N6 form a fire group, and they manage to break the stack in J7.

then the 747 in K6 shoots at the elite squad in K8 and gets an ELR check, but the Germans pass it. It would have been nice to get even just an ELR check failure, because downgrading the 548 loses the Elite status, and thereby the bonus when making Hesitation checks.

Defensive Fire Phase

lots of fire here, but none of it makes a lick of difference.

Close Combat Phase

the stack of two 747s and 8-1 move to add to the Close Combat, while on 747 and the 8-0 moves to P6, while still leaving one 747 in Q6

quote:

in the event that the CC in R7 goes against the Americans, holding hexes in both P6 and Q6 gives good Hesitation check coverage for wherever the Germans might want to go next - putting the whole stack in P6 would allow the R5 hex to be out of LOS.

... and it turns out that the Americans might need that coverage, because they rolled an 8, while the Germans rolled a 4, which means the paratroopers get wiped out.

End of USA turn 2

# ? Apr 1, 2024 12:06

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 3

quote:

Even after crushing the American stack at R7, the German player is still in an interesting position: does that R7 stack head straight for Q7 and engage the stack at P6? Do they go around along Q8, P8, O8, then N7, aiming straight for the objective? These are elite squads with a -1 leader, so they're almost certainly going to pass the the first three Hesitation checks when they're not yet adjacent to the enemy, and then they could pass the N7 movement half the time, but that's four rolls where they're hoping that they do not get a natural 6.

Rally Phase

in J7, the leader tries to rally, but gets a 9 and fails; and this means the MMC can't rally either because the leader is still broken

Movement Phase

all these units try to move adjacent to the American defenses, but all they get is a bunch of Halt results

from the house in R7, one 548 and a 9-1 leader makes an end-run for the town, and passes all four Hesitation Checks to do it, even the final adjacency move

the other 548 tries to follow, but fails at the second hex

German reinforcements arrive: a new 548 and a 9-1 leader halt immediately upon trying to enter some grain fields, but a second 548 gets far enough in to enter an assault position

and finally, the 447 in M5 passes the HC to also get into adjacency

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

from right to left:

- the 747 in Q6 rolls low and takes out the German 548 squad with a straight KIA result

quote:

this is maybe one of the best examples of the Hesitation rule "working as intended". You've got a squad that tries to advance into position, gets a Halt result that's leaves them out in the open, and then defensive fire tears them to pieces. That's classic, man.

- the 747 and 8-0 in P6 get no effect despite the doubled FP

- the 747 in N6 shoots at the stack in N7 and they get an "8" result on the attack; the 9-1 leader passes, but the 548 breaks, routs to N8 as a non-open hex, and then stops there

- the 337 in M6 shoots at the German 447, but also gets no effect

- and same for the 747 shooting at the building in L7

Close Combat Phase

the stack in O10 uses this phase's movement to advance to the grain hex in O9

then we get two close combats developing, at M6 and N6

in M6, the American half-squad takes out the 2nd-line German full squad
while in N6, the close combat is inconclusive as of this turn

End of GER turn 3

# ? Apr 2, 2024 01:59

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

USA turn 3

Rally Phase

nothing happens

Movement Phase

- green: the 747 in Q6 tries to make it to the left-hand objective hexes, but halts when trying to cross the street ...

- orange: ... leaving it to the 337 in M6 to pick up the slack

the last group of American reinforcements arrive, and they head immediately for the town

Fire Phase

the remaining squads that didn't move take their shots, but none land

Defensive Fire Phase

the Germans don't get anything done with their return fire, either

Close Combat Phase

the paratroopers use their one-hex movement to jockey for position further, while in the fighting in N6, both sides roll high and the melee remains undecided

End of USA turn 3

# ? Apr 3, 2024 03:43

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 4

Rally Phase

both the 8-1 leader, and then the 467 squad, rally successfully

Movement Phase

quote:

at this point, I thought about the wisdom of continually trying to assault K6, only to fail Hesitation Checks: could I shoot the Americans out of the house instead? If I take the fire group at J7, K8, and L7, I'd come up with 17 FP, rounded down to 16. A natural 7 roll on the 16 FP column would be modified to a 10, which is No Effect. So no, I wouldn't be able to scrounge up enough FP to have a decent chance of getting anything done with fire combat anyway.

for transparency, I'm going to post my log of how this phase played out

quote:

548 in K8 attempts to move to K7
Hesitation: TN 2; -1 DRM; HC = 2 = halts

467 and 8-1 in J7 attempts to move to J6
Hesitation: TN 2; -1 DRM; HC = 3 = halts

447 in I5 attempts to move to J5
Hesitation: TN 2; 0 DRM; HC = 5 = halts

447 and 7-0 in K4 attempts to move to L3
Hesitation: TN 5; 0 DRM; HC = natural 6 = halts

single 467 in L7 attempts to move to M7
Hesitation: TN 5; 0 DRM; HC = natural 6 = halts

other 467 in L7 moves to M8; no Hesitation
attempts to move to N7
Hesitation: TN 5; 0 DRM; HC = 5 = halts

548 in O9 attempt to move to O8
Hesitation: TN 6; -1 DRM; HC = natural 6 = halts

the Germans get just about nowhere this turn

Fire Phase

all units moved, no fire

Defensive Fire Phase

that said, the American defensive fire is ineffective also

Close Combat Phase

- green: the 9-1 in O9 moves to N8 so they can try to rally the broken squad

- teal: the 8-1 in J7 moves to K8 so they can stack DRM with the elite squad to try and beat the Hesitation Check

for the close combat in N6, both parties roll low, and they mutually annihilate

End of GER turn 4

# ? Apr 4, 2024 03:39

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

USA turn 4

Rally Phase

nothing to rally

Movement Phase

in sharp contrast to the previous turn, the Americans pass all of their Hesitation Checks (granted, the worst TN was only a 5) as they position themselves to secure all four objectives.

Fire Phase

only one shot taken here, and to no effect

Defensive Fire Phase

no successful attacks here, neither

Close Combat Phase

the paratroopers use their one-hex movement to further consolidate

End of USA turn 4

# ? Apr 5, 2024 08:15

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Seems like the Americans stabilised by now, seems difficult for the Germans to make much ground unless they get lucky.

# ? Apr 5, 2024 08:49

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

GER turn 5

Rally Phase

the 548 in N8 successfully rallies

Movement Phase

- green: the 447 in K4 passes two HCs to get adjacent to the objective hex

- red: the newly-rallied 548 and 9-1 fail their HC to advance to N7

- orange: the 548 in O9 passes the first HC to get to O8, but fails the second one to get adjacent in O7

quote:

from the Hesitation rules we're using, the USA 9-2 leader is adding a penalty to the Hesitation checks, since it's the "firer" of the hex, as we saw in the previous War of the Rats scenario. While that would presumably make the TN 2 Hesitation check difficult if not outright impossible to pass, I do want to note that the two 548s rolled high enough [natural 2's both times] that they would not have been able to pass the HC even if the defender's leadership DRM did not apply.

- green: the 467 in M8 attempts to move to M7, and passes

quote:

it would have been completely impossible for the 467 to pass this one: TN 2 with a +2 DRM means the lowest final dr is a 3, but in this case, the 467 rolled a natural 1. I decided to give it to them, if only because it would make for a more interesting result (while also serving as a counterpart that a natural 6 is always a halt regardless of modifiers).

- red: the other 467 tries to follow after them, but halts

quote:

this 467 rolled a natural 4, so it would have halted anyway regardless of the American leader, just like the 548s.

finally, the two squads across from the house in K8 try to advance again, but hesitate yet again.

Fire Phase

the 447 and 7-0 that began the turn in K4 take their shots against the Americans, but to no effect.

Defensive Fire Phase

the American squads that were just shot at return fire - they roll a 6, which translates to a "9" result. This breaks the whole German stack, and they rout.

quote:

that was a really lucky break for the Americans: out of the two chances that the Germans had at still ekeing out a win here, advancing into L3 and winning the close combat was one of them, and now that's out the window

[issuing a correction to myself here: the 747 in O6 should have moved to N5 during USA turn 4. I wrote it down in the log but didn't "do" it while replaying the moves over as I'm writing up these posts. I bring it up because it's going to be essential to the following sequence of events]

- yellow: the 747 in K6 shoots at K8, but to no effect

- red: a fire group is formed between M6, N5, and N6. They roll snake eyes, and the German 467 is eliminated with a KIA result.

quote:

for the 747 in M6, M7 was the closest hex with an enemy in it (adjacent)

for the 747 in N6, M7 was the closest hex with an enemy in it (adjacent)

for the 747 in N5, M7 was the closest hex with an enemy in it (2-hex range)

as we've been doing all this time, when the defenders all have the same target, per the Defensive Fire Phase target selection rules, and are otherwise capable of forming a fire group (M6, N6, and N5 are all adjacent), then they do form a fire group

the two 747s that are adjacent have their FP doubled to 14 each, making 28, then another 7 from the 747 in N5, which comes out to 35 FP, rounded down to the 30 FP column

the fire attack rolled snake eyes, and a DR of 2 on the 30 FP column is a KIA result

if we assume that the 9-2 leader in N6 does not apply since he's only directing fire from one hex, and so the fire attack cowers, then we shift to the 24 FP column, but a DR of 2 on the 24 FP column is still a KIA result

at this point, the scenario is effectively decided: the victory condition for the Germans requires that they have at least a single Good Order unit in any one of the four hexes, and their last opportunity (after being shot out of K4) was for the 467 to advance to N6 and win the close combat.

whatever else happens, the scenario ends with an American victory.

if I had to critique my own play, I would say that the German units north of K6 should have stopped trying to break into K6 so much and just secured the L3 and M4 hexes, but even setting that aside, up until this most recent roll, the Germans still had a chance of winning.

# ? Apr 9, 2024 03:11

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Post Mortem

This LP was as much about trying to review Retro as it was playing it and showing it to an audience.

In this sense, I've found that the incompleteness of the rules-as-written is inconvenient at best. Because it won't (or can't) write an entire ruleset by itself, I frequently had to refer back to ASL to fill-in the gaps where it was necessary to do so. And at that point, why not just play ASL itself?

As far as the gameplay itself is concerned, I think it does accomplish its goal of converting the game into one where there's almost no back-and-forth involved, along with cutting out some rules that involve additional dice-rolling, such as morale checks. And setting aside the back-and-forth rules-referencing, the game is that much simpler to follow along with.

I make no assertions as regards to balance, though I did find myself enjoying the increased dynamism imposed by stricter Hesitation Checks over the rules that "come in the box".

I suppose my biggest takeaway from this whole experience is that it allowed me to deepen my understanding and enjoyment of base ASL all the more, in the quest to essentially play through both side-by-side. Hesitation Checks, in particular, provide an intuitive guide as to how a player should be moving their units, which is not something I thought was particularly well-conveyed in the stutter-step action of ASL's triggered defensive fire.

I'm calling that a wrap on this LP - I'm still playing ASL on my own time, outside of posting, and this is a game and a subject I may well come back to later (as indeed this thread marks me coming back to it seven years after my first introduction to the game), and I'd like to thank everyone who followed along.

# ? Apr 10, 2024 05:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 28, 2024 06:38

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

Thanks for the thread! It was really interesting and informative in regards to the thread.

# ? Apr 10, 2024 07:15

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Let's Play Minden Games's "Retro", a Tactical WWII Wargame

«‹›2 »