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Phy posted:Be funny if the show introduced a version of Jan Joosten (the other white guy who the real Tokugawa made a samurai) and he finally meets back up with Blackthorne and he's had a comparatively dead easy time of it and just astounded by all of Blackthorne's crazy adventures We've already met the character based (very loosely, so I wouldn't say it's a spoiler) on him. He's a member of the crew of the Erasmus and he's the crew member that plays a minor role in the rest of the story, at least in the book.
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Mar 27, 2024 21:24
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Vorenus posted:
proud single tear and a smile
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Mar 27, 2024 22:07
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Saganlives posted:The cinematography in this show is also on another level. I was particularly taken with this shot, the intimacy it conveys is astounding. I love how unsubtle this moment is. Perestroika posted:I gotta echo whoever posted last episode about Ochiba having a noticeably different kind of pronunciation going on. Even across the language barrier, it really does come off as quite a bit more dramatic/villainous. Is there a specific word for the intonations she take? It's very distinctive and even though I don't follow anime anymore I feel like I've heard this before.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:18
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YaketySass posted:I love how unsubtle this moment is. Beyond "she's a really well written villain"? I dunno 
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Mar 27, 2024 22:23
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Maybe this is a big thing to say but I think this is honestly in the running for a GOAT show for costumes. Not to reduce anyone's achievement, but it's kinda easy to make great shots like that when you have unbelievably beautiful costumes to film
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Mar 27, 2024 22:29
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No Mods No Masters posted:Maybe this is a big thing to say but I think this is honestly in the running for a GOAT show for costumes. Not to reduce anyone's achievement, but it's kinda easy to make great shots like that when you have unbelievably beautiful costumes to film Toranaga's drip in particular is immaculate. 
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Mar 27, 2024 22:40
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Maybe the only thing you can criticize about the costumes is frumpy goblin blackthorne kinda just wears generic stuff so far. I guess even that achieves something as another way of foregrounding the japanese characters
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Mar 27, 2024 22:45
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Sierra Nevadan posted:I'm only 65% through the book, but Ochiba also had a son before the current heir. He got sick and died as a baby during a battle/campaign that Toranaga was leading and Ochiba blamed him for it. Somehow I completely missed that, thanks for explaining. That definitely makes more sense.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:46
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:My quick look at the Shogun subreddit has some folks itching for more action, but man, I gotta say, the cut to all of Sugiyama's entourage slaughtered hit hard and I can't think of any spinning and kicking and clanging of swords that I would like to see in its place. I've been rewatching Deadwood at the same time and it honestly reminds me of that show in the way that action sequences are sparse, quick, and impactful. The real joy of both shows is watching characters try to explain themselves to one another.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:52
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Every time I see the Portuguese people I laugh at how stupid their clothes and haircuts are.
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Mar 27, 2024 22:54
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especially the haircuts
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Mar 27, 2024 22:55
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Another great episode. So many good moments - I particularly liked Mariko saying “Our every gesture is being observed” in the tea house and Blackthorne immediately doing a 360 degree turn to see where the sex noise was coming from while still walking forward.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:10
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Cojawfee posted:Every time I see the Portuguese people I laugh at how stupid their clothes and haircuts are. Same, and when I'm watching Shogun.
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Mar 27, 2024 23:28
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In Episode 6, when Blackthorne gets a new pair of swords gifted to him from Toranaga, were those the same pair he gave to Toranaga in Episode 5, or an upgraded version?
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Mar 28, 2024 00:14
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Toronaga was at the mall so he bought another set.
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Mar 28, 2024 00:20
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IIRC in the book he gets given some incredibly fancy heirloom swords or whatever
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Mar 28, 2024 00:23
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The swords he gives back to Blackthorne are now much more valuable. Because they once belonged to the great Toranaga. This is also how I handle re-gifting white elephants at Christmas.
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Mar 28, 2024 00:43
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Phy posted:Jan Joosten (the other white guy who the real Tokugawa made a samurai) Fun fact, the Yaesu district on the east side of Tokyo Station is named after him. Just say "Jan Joosten" in 1600s Japanese real fast and I guess it sounds like Yaesu? (And just north of Yaesu is a block or two called Anjin Town, named after Will Adams, and is now mostly an upscale shopping district.)
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Mar 28, 2024 02:43
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I’ve been wanting to ask - what is up with the partially shaved heads? I can’t quite tell how it works. You have Toranaga who doesn’t do it, but his peers of a similarly high station do it. Then you have guys liked Yabushige who are a level below who don’t do it, but it seemed like the Taiko in the flashbacks, who outranks Toranaga, did it. Is it something completely optional that nobles choose to do, or is it based on your place in the social hierarchy?
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Mar 28, 2024 03:02
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There are various explanations on the hair thing, the one that seems to be most popular (but not definitive) is that it's a fashion that grew out of period hats / helmets fitting better with a partially shaved scalp. The theory is that it prevented the headgear from sliding around while riding / fighting.
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Mar 28, 2024 03:24
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It's such a bad look lol. Especially on those guys who don't even shave it fully and have, like, 5-o-clock shadow on their forehead.
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Mar 28, 2024 03:48
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Vorenus posted:it reminds me of Band of Brothers in the single aspect that every scene feels like it has a purpose and fills that purpose. I didn't think of this until I read it just now and it really rings for me as well. The worldbuilding is really great in this show. It's been a really pleasant surprise to have something to look forward to after the huge disappointment 3 Body was for me. Even disregarding the changes from the book, it just looks like a cheap TV movie and I was expecting with the production quality of top Netflix shows like Black Mirror.
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Mar 28, 2024 06:40
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You really can see the budget on screen in Shogun, huh?
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Mar 28, 2024 06:50
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As someone else pointed out, the costumes are doing a lot of the heavy work in that regard. Combined with good lighting and good to great cinematography...it just looks amazing and has all the grandiosity one would expect from a top tier studio.
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Mar 28, 2024 06:53
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I'm really pleased with how this episode centered the female characters (in a way the book didn't because James Clavell, while well-meaning, was a 70s-80s white guy rip). I mean, we've had Fuji acting her eyeballs out since her first appearance in the Baby Incident, but this was basically an episode focused on the women. also 1) totally facile observation but "Ladies of the Willow World" also applies a bit to Mariko and Ochiba, they're women of good birth and good education sold to men in more or less the same way and 2) they were traumatized in more or less the same way, but Mariko sank into icy depression and service to Toranaga and Ochiba became a power hungry rear end in a top hat in the book Ishido gets more of the spotlight, here she's got her arm up his butt using him as a hand puppet, lol spectacular episode, sad we only have four more left but at this rate it's going to be a tightly plotted perfect miniseries and that's not a bad thing
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Mar 28, 2024 07:40
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:As someone else pointed out, the costumes are doing a lot of the heavy work in that regard. Combined with good lighting and good to great cinematography...it just looks amazing and has all the grandiosity one would expect from a top tier studio. My only quibble with the look is that a good number of outdoor shots look pretty clearly filmed in a studio using (probably) the Volume -- the two final scenes on the boat in episode 3 in particular. But also, it kinda gives a mildly ethereal mood to the setting. Nice Tuckpointing! fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Mar 28, 2024 |
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Mar 28, 2024 07:58
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also iirc the book describes ishido as short and ugly whereas this guy is reasonably attractive and doesn't have obvious establishing shots of him being short, but because the casting in this show is amazing he makes up for it by seething in rage that people above him (except ochiba and the heir) have the temerity to exist and people below him have the temerity to not grovel
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Mar 28, 2024 08:22
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:There are various explanations on the hair thing, the one that seems to be most popular (but not definitive) is that it's a fashion that grew out of period hats / helmets fitting better with a partially shaved scalp. The theory is that it prevented the headgear from sliding around while riding / fighting. so something like the hitler mustache, which was a nod to his service in ww1
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Mar 28, 2024 08:37
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:As someone else pointed out, the costumes are doing a lot of the heavy work in that regard. Combined with good lighting and good to great cinematography...it just looks amazing and has all the grandiosity one would expect from a top tier studio. the wide open anamorphics are killing me sometimes tho like i get it's an aesthetic but that loving barrel distortion on the shoji door with all the lines that should clearly be straight aaaaaaaa
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Mar 28, 2024 08:42
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:There are various explanations on the hair thing, the one that seems to be most popular (but not definitive) is that it's a fashion that grew out of period hats / helmets fitting better with a partially shaved scalp. The theory is that it prevented the headgear from sliding around while riding / fighting. I thought that was the really stiff top knot
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Mar 28, 2024 08:43
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The latest episode of the official podcast goes into the "no Kata" thing on people's names.
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Mar 28, 2024 08:50
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For the partially shaved heads, I read that it was because the helmets would get really hot, so they shaved that part of their head to keep it cooler. So for that reason, I don't really laugh at the Japanese dumb haircuts, since they seem to have a reason. The Portuguese priests I will laugh at all day every day. They have their heads shaved all stupid because of something someone made up in the middle ages.
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Mar 28, 2024 08:59
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Goatse James Bond posted:also iirc the book describes ishido as short and ugly whereas this guy is reasonably attractive and doesn't have obvious establishing shots of him being short, but because the casting in this show is amazing he makes up for it by seething in rage that people above him (except ochiba and the heir) have the temerity to exist and people below him have the temerity to not grovel I'd also argue that the whole thing with "the antagonists are ugly goblins while the protagonists are handsome chads" is kind of an outdated convention that would have felt pretty out of place here.
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Mar 28, 2024 09:13
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No Mods No Masters posted:Maybe the only thing you can criticize about the costumes is frumpy goblin blackthorne kinda just wears generic stuff so far. I guess even that achieves something as another way of foregrounding the japanese characters I love it, he finally got one of those V-shoulder garments that all the other ranking samurai have and it's still made out of scratchy dog towel material Dude could put on Torunaga's finest silks and they would instantly transmute into something more appropriate for a trained bear in a housecoat
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Mar 28, 2024 13:29
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I thought this episode was a big double beat. The character stuff it revealed was either a repeat (Blackthorne and Mariko) of points the story just hit last episode in a more interesting way, or weirdly simplistic like Ochiba's overt villainy. I appreciate her acting in a 1950's film kind of way but it's not genuine investment. The earthquake was a non-event in the end, just something to create a fake climax for the last episode which otherwise wouldn't have had one and it feels like this one didn't either. I'm not even desperate for a big battle or anything, it's just comes off as dishonest to repeatedly promise it being imminent and then continue to spin wheels because they have 10 episodes to fill. Although I don't know what else is coming up in the story. I really like the show overall, just the last 2 eps have had my enthusiasm slowly draining a bit.
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Mar 28, 2024 13:31
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Cojawfee posted:For the partially shaved heads, I read that it was because the helmets would get really hot, so they shaved that part of their head to keep it cooler. So for that reason, I don't really laugh at the Japanese dumb haircuts, since they seem to have a reason. The Portuguese priests I will laugh at all day every day. They have their heads shaved all stupid because of something someone made up in the middle ages. That's just one of those commonly thought reasons that people say but there's no evidence to support it. Like shaving your mustache for gas masks in WW1, or English Englishmen dropping the V because of archers.
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Mar 28, 2024 14:24
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I always just assumed it was something elder officials instituted as a style because a lot of them would be naturally bald anyway and wanted to make it a mark of status rather than a sign of decline. Make the cool young samurai do it too. Even if they said otherwise, 'oh you know the helmet just gets too hot so i shave by choice'.
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Mar 28, 2024 14:25
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Who knows, it may well have been a mighty ancient warrior of great renoun had mpb* and youngsters copied them. Or a "gently caress you dad" type of cool kids style change that turned out to have great utility. The army that invaded Korea ended up with lots of hair and beards, and the highly manicured style of the following generation was a repudiation of them. *or shaved it because he got sick of his head hairs being pulled during battle.
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Mar 28, 2024 15:03
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Perestroika posted:I'd also argue that the whole thing with "the antagonists are ugly goblins while the protagonists are handsome chads" is kind of an outdated convention that would have felt pretty out of place here. Yeah that's a pretty good point, it's just another 1970s Writer Thing lol.
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Mar 28, 2024 15:36
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Readers were dumber 50 years ago and had to be spoon-fed this stuff.
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Mar 28, 2024 15:45
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