Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

SymmetryrtemmyS posted:

Are you actively using your entire screen when you search? Are you not, perhaps, looking at what you're searching for?

If so, Win+S dude

it is barely larger than the start menu, and more functional. It just pops up a dock on the right side of the screen, a fifth of the screen.

I feel like this derail should be in another thread. Is there a better thread for this?

e: I am a power user and I am on a desktop right now with a 24'' screen. You seem to think I'm speaking exclusively from a tablet/mobile perspective, which I never indicated

Thanks for Win+S I'd never heard of it.

I didn't expect anyone was using a tablet, but for me the new start menu is awesome for tablets and smaller touch screen laptops but I don't care for it when I'm not using metro apps. I just don't use any metro apps on my desktops when exclusively using a mouse, classic shell makes things better.

Classic shell when you set it back to Win 7 mode is not just about launching programs but accessing control panel and my computer in the ways that are useful and familiar from the previous 10 years of use.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Stick100 posted:

Classic shell when you set it back to Win 7 mode is not just about launching programs but accessing control panel and my computer in the ways that are useful and familiar from the previous 10 years of use.

Prepare to have your mind blown.

Right click the windows button.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


I was meh on Windows 8 at first until I discovered win key+X (which does the same thing as right clicking the start button). And then it was amazing.

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Yeah the right click menu in the Windows button is incredibly useful and a lot better than how i used to do things.

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

Call Me Charlie posted:

Prepare to have your mind blown.

Right click the windows button.

Once again thanks! But as a side note how is anyone supposed to find out that Win+S and Win+X combine left clicking the start button as has been the standard on windows for the last 19 years?

SymmetryrtemmyS
Jul 13, 2013

I got super tired of seeing your avatar throwing those fuckin' glasses around in the astrology thread so I fixed it to a .jpg

Stick100 posted:

Once again thanks! But as a side note how is anyone supposed to find out that Win+S and Win+X combine left clicking the start button as has been the standard on windows for the last 19 years?

How is anyone supposed to find new features? It takes time to find and spread these features among the general populace. Win8 just came out - by the time win9 or win10 are available, more people will 'get' the way this new style of OS works. That is, assuming they don't give up for win9, which I don't think they will.

Not being the same as it used to be isn't really a valid criticism, in my opinion. Things change, and change is necessary to improve. There will be (and have been) some missteps, but overall, I'd say win8 is a positive change.

Sri.Theo
Apr 16, 2008

Drastic Actions posted:

Oh trust me, you have no idea...

Me and another Windows 8 developer are working with them right now trying to fix this crap. The backend VLC C++ stuff is okay from what I can tell, it's the C# stuff that's the issue. They had no idea how to make a Windows 8 app, and the Microsoft guys did the least they could to help.

Windows 8.1 is not supported because... ahh... I don't really know. I was told it was because it failed cert and there were some other issues making it impossible to build it, but they don't actually have a branch for it. I said I would build out the views, but was denied. Right now their goal is to fix the bugs and the crashes. And again, trust me on this, some of these bugs are so dumb your mind would be blown. For example, if the app could not find a biography for the band you are listening to, it would return "It seems we did'nt found a biography for this artist.".

I know they had issues getting it through cert, but the build on the store right now should NOT be there.

But we are on a mission to fix these bugs. I feel really bad for these people who paid good money to have this app, only to get this "beta", which it should be pointed out is version 0.0.2. I don't care about getting paid, I just want it to work as designed. Not like poo poo.

But yeah, some beta.

EDIT:


Your media library is stored in a giant JSON file, which gets loaded every time the app starts up. If you don't know any programming, all you need to know is that is stupid, and right now I would say it's 90% of their issues. When they are trying to index your music and store it in this file, it almost always fails. The thing is, you don't know it fails, they hide the error. So it remakes your media library nearly every time the app loads!

They are trying to convert it to Sqlite, but who knows when they will get done and who is actually doing it. There other issue was running tasks asynchronously. They had no idea how to do it so they would try calling objects that could not be accessed in that thread. This should mostly fixed in the next build though.

Oh yeah, another important thing, as far as I can see there is no QA. We have to unit test our stuff, they review it, and it gets merged. Then it gets released. What you will see is our raw stuff, so let's hope we got it right! :v:

:suicide:

Do you think that VLC will ever come out for Windows RT tablets? Wasn't that one of the Kickstarter goals?

Drastic Actions
Apr 7, 2009

FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!
Nap Ghost

Sri.Theo posted:

Do you think that VLC will ever come out for Windows RT tablets? Wasn't that one of the Kickstarter goals?

I've been busy with work and my own projects, so I've not been active in their chat as of late (the last thing I did for them was start adding Sqlite support, so it would actually have a database of your media rather than a huge JSON file). I know they still want to do Windows RT support. Technically if you download their source and run it on a Windows RT tablet it does run, but there are still issues with how it handles background audio. It is still a hack that it works at all, it really should not. With that and how they handle their library linking it fails validation. I have not seen any recent commits that would show they are tackling those issues.

A big thing they do want though is Windows Phone 8.1 support. I can see them doing that first. But again, I don't know.

Oh, and they have made zero effort to make a Windows 8.1 project. Because I'm 99% sure their background audio hack won't work if it uses the new stuff.

Siroc
Oct 10, 2004

Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES"!
Wrong thread sorry.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Anyone in here that coded apps, given how old the thread is, most have given up, right? Do you guys expect to pick it up again, when Microsoft announces windowed WinRT apps?

Drastic Actions
Apr 7, 2009

FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!
Nap Ghost

Combat Pretzel posted:

Anyone in here that coded apps, given how old the thread is, most have given up, right? Do you guys expect to pick it up again, when Microsoft announces windowed WinRT apps?

Seeing that I'm going to start working at Xamarin should give you a hint on how I feel about Windows apps now ;).

I still work on the Windows Awful apps from time to time. And I've been helping with the new Windows 8.1 VLC WinRT app (which is actually useable, and what they should have released to start with). But I only really use my Surface Pro 3 for work (It's the best portable Visual Studio machine, with the second being the Surface Pro 2.), and I don't use Windows Phone at all, beyond making sure that Awful app still works and adding features to it, so that I can port that C# code to iOS and Android at some point. I won't leave C# (or F#, that poo poo is pretty fly) behind, but Windows? Yeah, I don't need it. Just give me Mono and I'll whip up an app that can run on many things.

I don't see how Windows 9 will compel me to get back into it. I'll at least make sure the stuff I have supports the windowed stuff (and it should already, seeing that I've been using ModernMix to simulate it). The Awful apps collectively have less than a thousand downloads (I think, all told, it's around 800?) but the people who do use it really do use it, so I want to keep up on it for them. My PlayStation apps have over five thousand downloads, but I've lost interest in it. I've been taking what I've learned from it and making Node.JS modules for it.

So I won't say i've "given up", but I would say I lost interest. There are so many more platforms out there that people actually use (including myself) that I would rather write for then Microsoft specific stuff.

Drastic Actions fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Sep 30, 2014

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
The lost interest is what I'm hinting at. It's the same here, the work involved doesn't pay off, because Windows on tablets is still not prevalent enough, and no one sane uses limited fullscreen apps on their desktops or laptops.

However, allowing windowed apps, ideally with more options to communicate with the world outside of their sandboxes, I can see it take off again shareware style. On top of that, the ability to distribute windowed WinRT apps with no API restrictions outside the store, that'd be awesome if possible.

Drastic Actions
Apr 7, 2009

FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!
Nap Ghost
When I actively used Windows tablets and Windows Phone, I wanted to make apps for it because no one else was making what I wanted. It gave me a reason to care. But iOS is just flat out more unique and interesting to me. It's much much harder to actually get something good out of it compared with Microsofts tools (Say what you want, but XAML for me is by far the easiest front end to deal with and really powerful. Also Xcode sucks. *PLUG* Xamarin Studio is pretty good though *PLUG*) but the end result is worth it.

Since I don't make apps for money, I go with what I'm currently using. I'm using iOS more right now, so that's what I'm interested in. Android is high up there too. Windows Phone has too many issues (especially with Japanese support, where poo poo has been flat out broken since 8.1 and they won't fix it) for me to bother with full time.

In terms of the API, I don't see them changing course. For enterprise apps, from what I recall, you can use "legacy" APIs that are outside of the sandbox, but you can't submit them to the Windows Store. So technically it is possible, but I don't see them changing course on it. Would be nice though.

ljw1004
Jan 18, 2005

rum

Combat Pretzel posted:

On top of that, the ability to distribute windowed WinRT apps with no API restrictions outside the store, that'd be awesome if possible.

What kind of "distribution outside the store" are you thinking of? You're already able to give someone an appx on a USB stick or whatever, and have them install it (so long as their machine is unlocked). No store restrictions.

The thing is, if there are no API restrictions, then the app can screw up your machine. And that defeats the biggest end-customer value of "apps".

You can also write a desktop WPF app which calls into WinRT APIs.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
None of the APPX bullshit. I want to be able ship a plain EXE or DLL (which is possible if you skip XAML and instantiate your UI all from code). For instance, I want to make a VST out of my synthesizer app, but keep the WinRT UI.

And I want free reign on the API solely to get VirtualAlloc/-Protect, to write machine code into memory to optimize some things. And I'm sure the third party browser guys would appreciate, too.

Also, why would one want to mix WPF with WinRT? That's completely insane. Using WinRT APIs in desktop applications restricts you to the platforms where WinRT UI is also always available. I don't get why I would want to defer to an API that's pretty much obsolete and deprecated, and not use the actively developed successor? Barring WinRT UI to sandboxed apps only is some mindboggling stupid decision from Microsoft.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



Windows 9 is now Windows 10.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/30/6868695/microsoft-windows-10-announced-official

PerrineClostermann
Dec 15, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

That makes it a whole two better!

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

Combat Pretzel posted:

Anyone in here that coded apps, given how old the thread is, most have given up, right? Do you guys expect to pick it up again, when Microsoft announces windowed WinRT apps?

Win8 desktop / Windows Metro Apps are interesting but I don't think I'll touch WP again except maybe to make some ports if I use an engine like Unity.

Look at this example:

http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/app/48e11314-dd1c-4122-baaa-b53c61fa690e

http://www.windowsphone.com/s?appId=d30b584c-050d-4995-90a9-8a30bd388ed6

That's a new Free to Play Star Wars Clash of Clans copetitor for Windows 8/WP8.

It's been out for a couple weeks and has 2800 reviews on the Windows 8 store (doesn't seem like it will make it's money back but it's something), the Windows Phone 8 version has 35 reviews. 35, Haredly anyone is using WP8 and of that it seems like no one is using WP8 for anything besides the core experience (Cortona, calls, Onenote, Office, Email). That's fine but having a 2% marketshare with no one looking at your apps, why even bother publishing for that platform even at no effort and free. Dealing with the bug reports for odd low power devices doesn't make it worth it compared to supporting a single extra iOS/Galaxy platform.

EDIT: It's even worse than it looks the Android version was released at the same time and has 116,428 reviews.

That means the WP8 version has .03% as many customers. That's a percentage so it's actually a ratio of 1 -> 0.0003. iOS has 195,680 reviews.

All versions were released 2 weeks ago. I don't believe the WP version will ever be updated and support will likely stop almost immediately.

Assuming an equal percentage of reviews per install you get roughly 10,000 times more non WP mobile customers than WP.

Stick100 fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Oct 1, 2014

Stubb Dogg
Feb 16, 2007

loskat naamalle

Stick100 posted:

That means the WP8 version has .03% as many customers. That's a percentage so it's actually a ratio of 1 -> 0.0003. iOS has 195,680 reviews.

All versions were released 2 weeks ago. I don't believe the WP version will ever be updated and support will likely stop almost immediately.
Numbers are pretty terrible anyway but for WP store it only displays review counts for that locale and you'll need to sum them all together to get equivalent numbers.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Same applies to the Windows Store.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



I am a glutton for bleeding edge punishment.

The Windows 10 Technical Preview is out and I'm tossing it on my laptop. We'll see how that goes!

A friend of mine who did the same says it's working fine on his old laptop. It's basically Windows 7 with tiny bits of 8.

Microsoft is goin' backwards. haha

Cerepol
Dec 2, 2011


ThermoPhysical posted:

I am a glutton for bleeding edge punishment.

The Windows 10 Technical Preview is out and I'm tossing it on my laptop. We'll see how that goes!

A friend of mine who did the same says it's working fine on his old laptop. It's basically Windows 7 with tiny bits of 8.

Microsoft is goin' backwards. haha

It's there D&D Next!

I'm kinda iffy on that idea though. I'd need to try it. I like 7 and I like 8 and don't feel like going back to 7.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



Cerepol posted:

It's there D&D Next!

I'm kinda iffy on that idea though. I'd need to try it. I like 7 and I like 8 and don't feel like going back to 7.

The Verge has an interesting article that states how Windows 10 is worse for Microsoft than Windows 8 was because of how they've stripped out a lot of things in 10 that worked fine in 8 and 8.1 just because of complaints. They've literally just took 7 and changed it up with teeny bits of 8 instead of 8 with bits of 7 or whatever.

The article goes on to state that this could bite MS in the rear end because while Google and Apple are pushing ahead with new things in ChromeOS and OS X respectively, Microsoft is stuck catering to people complaining about them trying to move ahead and they'll end up stagnating in the tech world because of it.

I haven't tried 10 Preview yet as the ISO is still burning (found out my usual USB drive for poo poo like this is dying...joy) but my friend has stated that yes, it is pretty much Windows 7...Start Menu and all.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Lets ignore all the other usability and functional improvements that weren't the goddamn tiles. Gotta get moar klickz! I don't see how Apple or Google are pioneering and innovating new super awesome UI concepts.

tk
Dec 10, 2003

Nap Ghost

ThermoPhysical posted:

The Verge has an interesting article

This seems rather unlikely.

Eggnogium
Jun 1, 2010

Never give an inch! Hnnnghhhhhh!

ThermoPhysical posted:

The Verge has an interesting article that states how Windows 10 is worse for Microsoft than Windows 8 was because of how they've stripped out a lot of things in 10 that worked fine in 8 and 8.1 just because of complaints. They've literally just took 7 and changed it up with teeny bits of 8 instead of 8 with bits of 7 or whatever.

The article goes on to state that this could bite MS in the rear end because while Google and Apple are pushing ahead with new things in ChromeOS and OS X respectively, Microsoft is stuck catering to people complaining about them trying to move ahead and they'll end up stagnating in the tech world because of it.

I haven't tried 10 Preview yet as the ISO is still burning (found out my usual USB drive for poo poo like this is dying...joy) but my friend has stated that yes, it is pretty much Windows 7...Start Menu and all.

Link?

I haven't tried it yet but that criticism doesn't really register with me. What features from 8/8.1 have been removed? As far as I've seen from videos all the big ones are there, they've just changed the presentation. And while you could characterize the change as backwards by comparing it to Windows 7, you could just as well characterize it as forwards since it moves Windows closer to the current UIs of ChromeOS and OS X.

ThermoPhysical
Dec 26, 2007



Combat Pretzel posted:

Lets ignore all the other usability and functional improvements that weren't the goddamn tiles. Gotta get moar klickz! I don't see how Apple or Google are pioneering and innovating new super awesome UI concepts.

Clickbait or not, I do kind of agree they're listening to whining people more than they are just trying to do their own thing. Considering how ChromeOS is making them nervous, I'd say they should just try to do new poo poo.


Eggnogium posted:

Link?

I haven't tried it yet but that criticism doesn't really register with me. What features from 8/8.1 have been removed? As far as I've seen from videos all the big ones are there, they've just changed the presentation. And while you could characterize the change as backwards by comparing it to Windows 7, you could just as well characterize it as forwards since it moves Windows closer to the current UIs of ChromeOS and OS X.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/9/30/6874413/windows-10-whats-old-is-new-again

I'm installing the preview now on my laptop that doesn't really get much use anyway outside of travel (even then, I just use my tablet).

What I really want to test it on is my desktop as that's where my work programs are and God knows those useless fucks won't actually test it themselves considering they still force us to Remote Desktop into a really crappy Windows XP machine...

Ah well.

Isn't Consumer Preview coming next January or something?

Stick100
Mar 18, 2003

ThermoPhysical posted:

Clickbait or not, I do kind of agree they're listening to whining people more than they are just trying to do their own thing. Considering how ChromeOS is making them nervous, I'd say they should just try to do new poo poo.

Well that's what they did with Vista and 8 and it was pretty horrid. They are somewhat caving to whining people but many of those critisms are spot on.

Example: http://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappointing-usability/

I agree with every single one of the usability complaints. I've been using Windows 8 since launch with a start button (Classic Start Menu) in Windows 7 mode with disabled hot corners and no Metro Apps.

You know what it works just fine, but the every bit of the Metro stuff is a failure on a non-tablet device. Windows 8 functionality with Windows 7 UI + Metro apps in a Window is exactly what I want.

There never was any reason a Metro weather app should launch full screen and then take up at least 50% of a 27 in monitor. From the start metro apps were designed to be run at a variety of sizeds and resolution. By not allowing them to run in a Window they effectively locked them self out of the non-touch Laptop/Mouse and Keyboard market.

That Verge article is junk, the last line "Familiar is easy, it's safe, it's probably profitable. But in an industry that moves as fast as technology, familiar is dangerous." is just silly. People use operating systems as a means to accomplish tasks. Almost no one cares to learn an OS. MS took their hail marry pass for Metro Apps and it didn't go anywhere.

I don't know if many people went to MS event around the launch of Windows 8 but MS (or at least the sales guys) was convinced that within a couple month of launch every one would be using Metro mode almost exclusively to accomplish their workload. In their mind the surface 1 (non-pro) was more important than the Pro because everyone would be using Metro apps and the desktop was an afterthought. It was hilariously transparent even pre-launch when they couldn't get the office team to make a metro Office (or even just Word). The office team was convinced Office 365 was the future but that's another story.

MS has come it's senses after seeing the failure of Metro development adoption and they are going back to making the best OS for the most amount of people and it's a good thing.

Stick100 fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 5, 2014

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

Apple and Google don't get praise simply for trying new things, they get praise for trying new things, doing them well, and ditching the projects that do poorly. Some things in Windows 8 were new, but they were so poor in some fundamental ways that they should've been dumped like a cliff baby.

Nobody's whining about Microsoft doing new things. They're criticizing the company for loving up the execution and maybe not having a solid idea in the first place, which is the important second part of the equation for good software that you ignore when you just harp on innovation being important.

Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Oct 6, 2014

me your dad
Jul 25, 2006

I don't know how impactful this will be to others, but if your work uses Good for mobile email, they've released the app for Surface Pro systems. This has been great for me, since I can't connect my Office 2013 installation to my work email.

Kazy
Oct 23, 2006

0x38: FLOPPY_INTERNAL_ERROR

To get this thread back on track, I updated the OP! :toot:

...With 3 new apps. 2 replaced the twitter clients that were taken off the store, and I removed 2 other apps that weren't available anymore. :geno: The app store has grown so much in 2 years!

cvnvcnv
Mar 17, 2013

__________________

Kazy posted:

To get this thread back on track, I updated the OP! :toot:

Drop Kindle, throw up Bookviser.

Kazy
Oct 23, 2006

0x38: FLOPPY_INTERNAL_ERROR

soapgish posted:

Drop Kindle, throw up Bookviser.

Added to the OP! Kept Kindle in case people prefer to buy from Amazon.

I've got $30 in Windows store credit from when they converted my Xbox points, but I've yet to find any decent paid apps that don't already own. :negative: Been trying to use more since my main laptop is a Surface Pro 3 now.

Manky
Mar 20, 2007


Fun Shoe

Kazy posted:

Added to the OP! Kept Kindle in case people prefer to buy from Amazon.

I've got $30 in Windows store credit from when they converted my Xbox points, but I've yet to find any decent paid apps that don't already own. :negative: Been trying to use more since my main laptop is a Surface Pro 3 now.

Cover for comics!

Call Me Charlie
Dec 3, 2005

by Smythe

Kazy posted:

To get this thread back on track, I updated the OP! :toot:

...With 3 new apps. 2 replaced the twitter clients that were taken off the store, and I removed 2 other apps that weren't available anymore. :geno: The app store has grown so much in 2 years!

The appstore is a wasteland.

But Hyper For YouTube is a pretty good app.

http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/hyper-for-youtube/aa71044c-c4b9-4a9c-96fa-2ab6f9d716c8

And the new CBS News app is actually great, which is surprising considering how garbage the CBS app is.

http://apps.microsoft.com/windows/en-us/app/cbs-news/114910a9-d7af-4beb-a5bb-43b22c6b726f

Renzian
Oct 25, 2003
REDTEXTING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS YOU GUYS.

SERIOUS.
BUSINESS.
EDIT: Withdrawing suggestion request as the answer is located in the OP.

Renzian fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 13, 2015

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Renzian
Oct 25, 2003
REDTEXTING IS SERIOUS BUSINESS YOU GUYS.

SERIOUS.
BUSINESS.
Wondering if anyone's figured out the new/updated Dropbox app? For the life of me, I can't figure out how to download files off my Dropbox through it, if there even is download functionality. I can open files in Dropbox, and even 'Favorite' them for offline use, but the latter seems to only store it in the app itself - I say this because I favorited a .doc, and then did a systemwide file search for it and nothing came up. I'm hoping someone here knows something I don't, though.

  • Locked thread