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evilmiera posted:I don't think Nygma is such a great character, mainly because of the weird fake schizo stuff he was pulling in the finale. That's not how split personality works, hardly even in comicbook land. I'm a much bigger fan of him when he keeps undermining himself by doing stuff like what he did when he wrote that letter, but not when he then goes into his big dialogue with himself about why he did that or how screwed he is. As Riddler, he should've gotten a smug smile from her figuring things out, then entrapped her or posed a new riddle to her that would've stumped her in her investigation, proving how smart he was. Until she found the new clue he'd been forced to drop. Not because I want the show to adhere to the comic books or whatever, but because what we got in the show was just not very interesting. The thing is, he is not the Riddler yet. That is what the show is all about.. No one, is the character we are used to. Its about them becoming that person. Split personality may not be exactly this way (How you know that, I'm not sure but I suspect you're not wrong) but its not something that can't be easily portrayed on TV. The way they did it was okay in my book. I never once got the impression that he was talking to himself. Not out loud anyways. More like he's got his internal voice, and another one is kinda taking over. It was kinda interesting and it shows that his getting screwed up. Ivy could be a cool character. The actress seems to portray her well, but it feels like they just try to shove her in once in a while to let us know she exists but will not give her any real part in the show. Selena is okay once in a while, but her parts in the last episode was just god drat awful. It just doesn't go well with anything else we've seen about her. Pushing that guy down the window was something she did to save Bruce from doing it. Then she meets fish and is a full fledge psyco willing to let a cop die. What the gently caress is it with Fish being able to get anyone to follow her without any good reasons? The more I think about it, the more I disliked that finale.
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May 7, 2015 21:56
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Selena chumming up to fish was absolutely stupid, 
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May 7, 2015 21:59
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bobkatt013 posted:Yeah but we already know that no character is safe. Sal Maroni is really important, but he is now dead. Sure, but that's not really the same. The show is still held to the mythology of Bruce Wayne-as-Batman. Regardless of which ancillary criminals are around, the notion that this messianic figure will appear in the future still mandates the direction of the plot. If they were actually going to upset that idea, it would've been built into the premise. As it stands, even if particular side characters like Maroni die off, the show still has no choice but to tread water because the big deal event is still a decade away. It's essentially Smallville, but more strict because there isn't a way to speed up Batman's development without substantial time jumps. If they'd committed to it being an alternate history, it'd have strengthened the show because all bets would be off. If Bruce had died, too. Or if Bruce and Martha died, but Thomas lived. Or if only Martha lived. Or if Gordon had stopped the murders entirely. In any of those scenarios, the game would have changed, and the stakes would suddenly be real.
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May 7, 2015 22:16
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Split personality? More like losing his mind with guilt and dealing with a ton of thoughts of varying sorts at once.
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May 7, 2015 22:56
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bobkatt013 posted:Yeah but we already know that no character is safe. Sal Maroni is really important, but he is now dead. Meet his son, Salvatore Maroni Jr. #nextseasonongotham
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May 7, 2015 23:08
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I figured the thing with Nygma at the end of the episode wasn't him really having a split personality or anything, it's just sort of his mind starting to deal with a lot of screwed up stuff at once that he wasn't emotionally prepared to deal with. I sort of almost want to compare it to his flirtations with Kringle with a kid working up the nerve to ask out a girl in high school and having her misread or reject him. He's essentially made, in his mind, this big move and made himself vulnerable in an attempt to win her affections. He's angry at how stupid he was, he's afraid of his embarrassing secret getting revealed to her/others, etc. One thing I recently started thinking about with Gotham is that if this show had come out maybe 5-10 years ago, it would have had a 2-hour pilot TV movie that spent the first hour sort of better fleshing out where every character was sort of coming from and their backgrounds and it would have had the Waynes killed at just before the 1 hour mark.
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May 8, 2015 07:33
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gannyGrabber posted:Meet his son, Salvatore Maroni Jr. Butch starts wearing a mask, tells everyone he's Maroni, write it
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May 8, 2015 09:19
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gtkor posted:Victor Zsasz captured Butch at one point and did some pretty bad stuff to him off screen. This is what programmed him to be loyal to Penguin, despite him betraying Fish earlier. Specifically, I think Butch was given the kind of lobotomies that Gordon was seeing at Arkham, since the mob controlled it and we see a similar looking scar. Speaking of this, I kind of wanted to see Zsasz show up and assist Gordon in that shootout, just because of how awesome it is, and then turn around and kill Falcone once Gordon brings them together. At least it makes more sense than Falcone deciding to just retire. Didn't he watch The Sopranos? You don't just get out without looking suspiciously at everyone. Maybe he thought they'd think an old man would be harmless. Overall, though, I think "they gave us that buildup to Fish's return just for THAT?" We already talked about how Fish was going to be killed by Penguin just due to the poetic meaning behind her name, but this ending suggests the writers didn't have a plot in mind to accomplish that at all.
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May 8, 2015 09:32
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Rarity posted:Butch starts wearing a mask, tells everyone he's Maroni, write it Bullock gets plastic surgery, to become don falcone, to keep the city from descending into chaos. "Zsasz! Knife this balogna brain!"
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May 8, 2015 13:19
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I am pretty sure Sopranos is a thing in the Batman universe.
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May 8, 2015 18:17
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Waltzing Along posted:I am pretty sure Sopranos is a thing in the Batman universe. Except that it's a documentary in that universe.
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May 8, 2015 20:01
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Dalael posted:The thing is, he is not the Riddler yet. That is what the show is all about.. No one, is the character we are used to. Its about them becoming that person. Yeah, we got some different ideas on what went down with Nygma, but I can 100 percent agree with you on Selena in the finale. She was someone who when she was pushed into a corner pushed back (no pun intended) but overall wasn't an outright terrible person. And then Fish just recruits the first girl she sees off the boat and gives her a gun and she runs with it. Why she would when Fish was just exiled and you can't really know if she has any real power left or anything, not to mention she ought to be laying low after that murder she went and commited, I do not know.
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May 8, 2015 22:20
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Waltzing Along posted:I am pretty sure Sopranos is a thing in the Batman universe. It's a rhetorical way of saying "didn't the writers of this mob tale ever dwell on the meanings of one of the most widely known finales to a mob tale?" A boss under attack that decides to just disappear is eerily similar. But this show has not exactly been gripping mafioso stuff, opting for stuff like Fish wanting Falcone to sign papers to give her the mob.
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May 9, 2015 02:27
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evilmiera posted:Yeah, we got some different ideas on what went down with Nygma, but I can 100 percent agree with you on Selena in the finale. She was someone who when she was pushed into a corner pushed back (no pun intended) but overall wasn't an outright terrible person. And then Fish just recruits the first girl she sees off the boat and gives her a gun and she runs with it. Why she would when Fish was just exiled and you can't really know if she has any real power left or anything, not to mention she ought to be laying low after that murder she went and commited, I do not know. Eh, she seemed to just be going along with it for shits and giggles (and a mom-substitute.) Fish's whole arc from the Dollmaker to becoming Pisces Ex Machina was all about showing that yes, she's annoying, but she's also an extremely competent leader even after being busted down to living organ donor. It's not that strange to believe that she'd have the charisma to win over Kyle.
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May 9, 2015 20:21
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Cryohazard posted:Eh, she seemed to just be going along with it for shits and giggles (and a mom-substitute.) Fish's whole arc from the Dollmaker to becoming Pisces Ex Machina was all about showing that yes, she's annoying, but she's also an extremely competent leader even after being busted down to living organ donor. It's not that strange to believe that she'd have the charisma to win over Kyle. That quick, though? And honestly, was Selena ever that needy for something akin to a mother? I mean, I might've missed that earlier on in the show, and what was going on with Barbara and all, but I really can't see the connect between just meeting her and then being her top goon.
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May 9, 2015 21:46
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evilmiera posted:That quick, though? And honestly, was Selena ever that needy for something akin to a mother? I mean, I might've missed that earlier on in the show, and what was going on with Barbara and all, but I really can't see the connect between just meeting her and then being her top goon. They should've shown Fish's return in the previous episode. I wonder if they ran out of time for her considering they didn't bother to show how she recovered from being shot either.
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May 9, 2015 21:58
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Crashbee posted:They should've shown Fish's return in the previous episode. I wonder if they ran out of time for her considering they didn't bother to show how she recovered from being shot either. There must be some cuts, I can't imagine they filmed her getting shot with zero plans for it. The only reason for it now would be to reveal that it was a magic bullet that made her immune to death if she crawls out of Gotham River next season.
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May 10, 2015 02:57
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Dresh posted:There must be some cuts, I can't imagine they filmed her getting shot with zero plans for it. The only reason for it now would be to reveal that it was a magic bullet that made her immune to death if she crawls out of Gotham River next season. When asked a few days ago if she was in season 2 she said she will not be a series regular instead of saying outright she would not be in season 2 like she did a couple months ago.
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May 10, 2015 03:02
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jabro posted:When asked a few days ago if she was in season 2 she said she will not be a series regular instead of saying outright she would not be in season 2 like she did a couple months ago. She fell into the water and crawled into the sewers. She's gonna find and mentor Kid Killer Croc. Kidder Croc. Kid Rock.
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May 10, 2015 03:16
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May 10, 2015 05:58
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That is a really good observation.
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May 10, 2015 06:06
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Sign my petition to get the Batusi into Season 2.
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May 10, 2015 06:37
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Dresh posted:There must be some cuts, I can't imagine they filmed her getting shot with zero plans for it. The only reason for it now would be to reveal that it was a magic bullet that made her immune to death if she crawls out of Gotham River next season. The entire last handful of episodes feel really odd that when I think about them my brain just feels very compelled to think that there's a reason they feel that way. I'm even sort of willing to entertain the idea that they were mining some season 2 plotlines and getting those just done. I mean, I could easily see the entire final episode (sans the Bruce/Alfred bits) being expanded over several episodes just to get us to the point where Maroni and Falcone are both gone from the city. I don't know if maybe a part of it was they were writing the character/episodes while negotiating with Pinkett-Smith, unsure if she was coming back and/or trying to reinvent the character or what. I'm sort of wondering if they had planned for Fish to be written out of the rest of Season One after leaving Gotham City, with plans to bring her back in Season Two. The entire Fish/Dollmaker arc of the second half of the season reminds me of the Three Dots of the Terminator Sarah Connor Chronicles TV series. It's there, it eats up a lot of time, it's frustrating and there's pretty much zero payoff for any of it. It'd been one thing if Fish was going to use Dollmaker to turn cosmetically alter Oswald to have a more traditional Penguin and have him waddle back to Gotham for her amusement.
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May 10, 2015 07:33
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Morena was added as a series regular for season 2. Of course this doesn't mean they won't ditch her partway through the season considering how they treated Montoya and Allen.
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May 13, 2015 01:08
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Jerusalem posted:Sign my petition to get the Batusi into Season 2. I'm clicking your post, but nothing is happening.
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May 13, 2015 01:17
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muscles like this? posted:Morena was added as a series regular for season 2. Of course this doesn't mean they won't ditch her partway through the season considering how they treated Montoya and Allen. She's so going to get killed, and Barb will get rehabbed so her and Gordon can go back to living together in that swanky apartment.
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May 13, 2015 16:04
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Falcone (mid-season): I am getting too old for this, I want to retire with this lovely young lady. Wait? She is a plant and has been playing me all along? I strangle her instantly upon finding out, and I have never felt so alive! Falcone (end-of-season): I guess I am too old for this poo poo. Sigh. What a terrible waste.
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May 13, 2015 18:04
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Jerusalem posted:Sign my petition to get the Batusi into Season 2. Aw, you made me imagine young bruce attempting this while young selena rolls her eyes at him  JD Bucks 7 posted:Falcone (mid-season): I am getting too old for this, I want to retire with this lovely young lady. Wait? She is a plant and has been playing me all along? I strangle her instantly upon finding out, and I have never felt so alive! I had a number of issues with the finale and this was certainly one of them too.
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May 14, 2015 18:42
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Given how odd the season ultimately felt, I've still been sort of wondering if there was a lot of shake up in the development of the season thanks to poor fan reaction to the Jim/Barbara chemistry, the much better Jim/Leslie relationship and Fish as the season was being produced. That being said, I wonder if there was a plan at some point for something like the Barbara/Ogre arc of the second half of the season to have been intended for Kringle, instead. However, as the season moved on, they threw that out to get Barbara out of the picture and cement the Leslie/Jim relationship. Just a theory on my part, but I almost feel like there are some pieces in place that lend itself to this direction maybe early on. I have to admit, too, a lot of this still ties into my notion that Kringle seemed like a character that could have been poised to become a serial killer in the series.
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May 21, 2015 11:05
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JediTalentAgent posted:Just a theory on my part, but I almost feel like there are some pieces in place that lend itself to this direction maybe early on. I have to admit, too, a lot of this still ties into my notion that Kringle seemed like a character that could have been poised to become a serial killer in the series. Who loving knows. They could be setting her up as a Riddler Harley Quinn!
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May 21, 2015 14:48
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JediTalentAgent posted:That being said, I wonder if there was a plan at some point for something like the Barbara/Ogre arc of the second half of the season to have been intended for Kringle, instead. However, as the season moved on, they threw that out to get Barbara out of the picture and cement the Leslie/Jim relationship. No problem there, in my opinion, this is a series that is full on crazy and stupid so I am perfectly fine with them just embracing the crazy for Barbara if only to get Jim and Lee together since they have actual chemistry
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May 21, 2015 17:37
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Cryohazard posted:Who loving knows. They could be setting her up as a Riddler Harley Quinn! I was sort of thinking the opposite, though: The Riddler was maybe being set up as Kringle's Harley. If it turned out that Kringle was going to end up being a secret serial killer or something, I could see it as being something where Nygma's the only one to figure it out but be so infatuated with her that he starts to craft himself a similar secret persona in an attempt to bond with her. Like I said, it was mainly just some stuff from her earliest appearance that sort of got me wondering that, though. She's introduced in an episode about a serial killer and her reactions to Eddie in that episode might not be just because Eddie is so strange but because some of the topics and things he's saying to her: He asks her if she thinks what would drive someone to kill like the Spirit of the Goat, he mentions her parents and how pleasant they must be, and she gets bit more agitated when he criticizes her very personal filing system. Her very prim and proper look and behavior,. It might be just her reactions to Eddie being Eddie, or just her being sort of bookish character herself, but when you look at those elements in comparison to the later Barbara reveal of her parents and their control/criticism of her growing up, maybe even the Ogre's ability to track down people close to the GCPD very easily, evidence going missing, I think it sort of looks like it might have been a thought. There's the bullet cupcake, too. A beautiful woman is a deadly thing. In his obsession and infatuation with her, he's unknowingly figured out that she's more dangerous than she lets on.
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May 21, 2015 20:14
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