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Just binged through both seasons in a week. My take: - The writing is generally solid, but the directing and production leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe I'm just pampered by shows like Breaking Bad, but OTNB is really visually boring. A lot of scenes also tend to drag on; I attribute that partly to the lack of time restriction, a problem I also find in S4 of Arrested Development. Comedies often do better with a time limit. - The racial/ethnic war in S2 was thoroughly unconvincing. They set it up to be some grand showdown but it was nothing like that. The Hispanic crew barely even got involved -- speaking of which, they wrote this extensive backstory for Gloria (in which her boyfriend got awesomely burned to death), and literally did nothing for her all-season. The black characters are also all kinda dragged down by the cartoonish villainy of Vee. Sometimes I think all writers have these grand visions of Machiavellian political showdowns but not many of them can work them right, especially in a tonally incompatible show like this. - I wonder how many Asian women are there in prison. My understanding is there are small but substantial numbers of Asian men in prison, especially for things like gang violence, but I haven't found any data on Asian women. They clearly introduced Soso to diversify the cast but I'm not sure if that's enough or if that still underplays the proportion. I don't think the writers are very good at writing Asian characters anyhow. That older lady is occasionally funny but otherwise does nothing. In one scene, if I remember correctly, a character also suggests that Soso could have been Malay or some other Asian ethnicity. Two problems: The average American wouldn't know what the hell a Maly person is nor would it be the first ethnicity that comes to their mind. If they did, they'd probably know Malays, like Filipinos or even Vietnamese people, mostly look nothing like Soso. A comparison to Koreans or Chinese people would have worked. It's nitpicky but I feel like this show is decent at writing stories about minority people and is letting itself down a little here. Other than these, I'm generally in line with the thread consensus. Some of the writing is really good and the novel topic distinguishes it from other shows on TV. I wonder if Piper going all cynical and evil is really a great move though. It's pretty entertaining but I dunno, it reminds me a little too much of Breaking Bad -- dissatisfied middle-class white person turns bad. That path's been tread a bit too prominently. I wonder what other ways they can write her.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:53
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Vegetable posted:I wonder how many Asian women are there in prison. My understanding is there are small but substantial numbers of Asian men in prison, especially for things like gang violence, but I haven't found any data on Asian women. They clearly introduced Soso to diversify the cast but I'm not sure if that's enough or if that still underplays the proportion. I'm taking a bit of a leap, here. I narrowly avoided Piper+ time in the slammer, and part of the plea deal was probation with drug conditions. So, whenever that number comes up, I have to go to the courthouse and pee in a cup very widely in front of a female officer. It's an intersting cross section of society, for sure. But...there are a substantial number of very prim, very cute Asian girls, going in to piss in the same drat cup. Demographic-wise...well, urban area, YMMV, but I actually think the races are pretty evenly divvied up. But looking at Soso absolutely reminds me of the girls I see on those days.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:20
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Propaganda Machine posted:Demographic-wise...well, urban area, YMMV, but I actually think the races are pretty evenly divvied up. But looking at Soso absolutely reminds me of the girls I see on those days. How cute are we talking here, overall? Maybe I can do some small time and 'gender-identify' as female before I get sentenced. 
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Aug 14, 2014 05:23
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Drifter posted:How cute are we talking here, overall? Maybe I can do some small time and 'gender-identify' as female before I get sentenced. Haha, cute! Unfortunately for you, nobody really talks to each other. The only people I ever chat with are obviously lost and asking for directions.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:25
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S3 casting stuff, not sure if it needs to be spoilered or not: Are we sure that Pornstache isn't going to be in the next season? Mary Steenburgen is being billed as playing his mom on wikipedia.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:07
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:S3 casting stuff, not sure if it needs to be spoilered or not: Are we sure that Pornstache isn't going to be in the next season? Mary Steenburgen is being billed as playing his mom on wikipedia. Maybe she'll show up demanding to be a part of the baby's life / demand custody of the baby since the mother and father will both be in jail.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:11
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Max posted:Maybe she'll show up demanding to be a part of the baby's life / demand custody of the baby since the mother and father will both be in jail. I could see it happening. The rapist's family trying to get custody of the rape victim's baby sounds dumb as all hell, but not something I would put past Jenji.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:16
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:I could see it happening. The rapist's family trying to get custody of the rape victim's baby sounds dumb as all hell, but not something I would put past Jenji. Rapists have parental rights in most parts of the US, so it's not as dumb (in the context of the show) as it seems.
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Aug 15, 2014 18:24
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Catts posted:Rapists have parental rights in most parts of the US, so it's not as dumb (in the context of the show) as it seems. What the Christ? I knew our legal system was hosed up but God drat...
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Aug 15, 2014 18:27
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:What the Christ? I knew our legal system was hosed up but God drat... Rape politics in the US are the worst. Ariel Castro tried to get visitation rights. The judge was like "lolno".
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Aug 15, 2014 20:12
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http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/us/rapist-child-custody/ haha you made me google that it sounded so ridiculous. 
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Aug 15, 2014 20:29
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Drifter posted:http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/01/us/rapist-child-custody/ It's very depressing. Within the context of the show, it would make sense since Pornstash and Diaz are in jail, as is her mother. Pornstash's mom being the only one around that could take care of the kid would present an interesting bit of tension with the actual dad that the show will very likely ruin with some very bad writing.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:44
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Are we supposed to feel bad for Pornstashe, I know Diaz was all upset about tricking him but he was 100% culpable she didn't rip off his pants or anything she just didn't "love" him. Also he was blackmailing other inmates in first season to give him blowjobs for drugs, drugs that eventually killed her.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:47
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socialsecurity posted:Are we supposed to feel bad for Pornstashe, I know Diaz was all upset about tricking him but he was 100% culpable she didn't rip off his pants or anything she just didn't "love" him. Also he was blackmailing other inmates in first season to give him blowjobs for drugs, drugs that eventually killed her. I *think* the show wants us to, in some fashion, because he's painted in such a humorous light and he was the one who calmed down that young guard during that freakout. They just want us to disregard everything he's done that's, you know, literally evil.
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Aug 15, 2014 21:22
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Drifter posted:I *think* the show wants us to, in some fashion, because he's painted in such a humorous light and he was the one who calmed down that young guard during that freakout. They just want us to disregard everything he's done that's, you know, literally evil. I didn't get that sense. I think they have been trying to have more 3-dimensional characters, even with the villains. I've been hoping to see Fig show up in prison herself, and she is plainly evil, but the whole (pretty obviously telegraphed) gay husband angle also served to humanize her a little.
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Aug 15, 2014 21:27
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I really have no idea what they're doing with Diaz feeling guilty about Pornstach. Like, he was so clearly a bad person in the first season.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:45
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Max posted:I really have no idea what they're doing with Diaz feeling guilty about Pornstach. Like, he was so clearly a bad person in the first season. I think they developed him as being, at root, a clueless manchild. He seems to be stuck in a highschool mentality (down to the Camaro and pornstache itself) and emotionally stunted. The scenes in the bar helped to establish a lot of this. His villainy, while evil, is also childish. Considering how awful Diaz's home life was, and how awful her mother is, having her experience some ethical problems isn't unreasonable. Also, it's not like her character is terribly smart, either.
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Aug 17, 2014 22:57
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Maybe she'll draw him a lovely anime picture and fall in love with pornstache making gimpy want to strangle her.
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Aug 19, 2014 02:09
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Invalid Validation posted:making gimpy want to strangle her. Just like the rest of us! I feel that, in another life, Daya would be in an entirely different prison: the dank, smelly cage that is Omegaverse fanfic.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:17
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Vegetable posted:
Spitballing here, but I think the reason there aren't many Asian women in Litchfield is because (proportionally) there aren't all that many Asian people in that part of the country. If the show were set in California, for example, you'd probably see a hell of a lot more Asians (Latinas too), but fewer black people.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:41
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ninjahedgehog posted:Spitballing here, but I think the reason there aren't many Asian women in Litchfield is because (proportionally) there aren't all that many Asian people in that part of the country. If the show were set in California, for example, you'd probably see a hell of a lot more Asians (Latinas too), but fewer black people. Actually 30% of California women prisoners (page 5) are black, which is actually more than Latinas (the latter are underrepresented in California prisons).
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Aug 19, 2014 18:55
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computer parts posted:Actually 30% of California women prisoners (page 5) are black, which is actually more than Latinas (the latter are underrepresented in California prisons). huh, weird. Here in Belgium it's illegal for the government to keep track of people their race in prison. Only thing known is that about 50% of the people are foreign, as in don't have a Belgian passport. But other than that it's anybody's guess.
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Aug 19, 2014 20:31
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mrfart posted:huh, weird. Here in Belgium it's illegal for the government to keep track of people their race in prison. Apparently there was a study done recently that said that North Africans & Turks were ~43% of the foreigners, so at least a quarter of Belgian prisons are Muslims.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:01
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mrfart posted:huh, weird. Here in Belgium it's illegal for the government to keep track of people their race in prison. That seems like a weird loving law. Against the law to use affirmative action to PUT people in jail, sure, but not to study race differentiation inside. A lot of times there are significant groups being edged out of economic viability (people tend to clump to similar people, visually or culturally) and those studies can help choose a direction for social efforts to invest in for improvement.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:17
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Drifter posted:That seems like a weird loving law. Against the law to use affirmative action to PUT people in jail, sure, but not to study race differentiation inside. A lot of times there are significant groups being edged out of economic viability (people tend to clump to similar people, visually or culturally) and those studies can help choose a direction for social efforts to invest in for improvement. You have a point I guess. I think these laws were meant well, whether or not they got the desired effect if very doubtful. But like computer parts pointed out, there are studies about it.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:00
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Gettin' real sick of Red's 2.5 acting techniques: Puffed up chest confidence, deer in headlights, and deer in head lights breathing heavily.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:01
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Wonderful Bread posted:Gettin' real sick of Red's 2.5 acting techniques: Puffed up chest confidence, deer in headlights, and deer in head lights breathing heavily.
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Oct 6, 2014 08:27
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Wonderful Bread posted:Gettin' real sick of Red's 2.5 acting techniques: Puffed up chest confidence, deer in headlights, and deer in head lights breathing heavily. Don't forget sarcastic deer in headlights (followed by cackling)! 
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Oct 6, 2014 15:15
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Lorraine Toussaint also had that deer in headlights thing going on during the end of season two.
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Oct 7, 2014 00:07
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Last Chance posted:Lorraine Toussaint also had that deer in headlights thing going on during the end of season two. 
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Oct 7, 2014 00:13
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Vegetable posted:In one scene, if I remember correctly, a character also suggests that Soso could have been Malay or some other Asian ethnicity. Two problems: The average American wouldn't know what the hell a Maly person is nor would it be the first ethnicity that comes to their mind. If they did, they'd probably know Malays, like Filipinos or even Vietnamese people, mostly look nothing like Soso. A comparison to Koreans or Chinese people would have worked. It's nitpicky but I feel like this show is decent at writing stories about minority people and is letting itself down a little here. It was Soso herself asking whether Chang was potentially Malay and tripping over herself trying not to make assumptions, in her social justicey sort of way. I thought it made sense in character. Healy's inconsistency basically seems to be because he's so reactive to whatever happened most recently. If Caputo encourages him, he tries. If his wife pushes him, he gets vindictive. Whenever he turns over a new leaf, he wants everybody to acknowledge and praise him immediately, and when it doesn't happen, he sulks and lashes out. Helena Handbasket fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 17:06
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Wonderful Bread posted:Gettin' real sick of Red's 2.5 acting techniques: Puffed up chest confidence, deer in headlights, and deer in head lights breathing heavily. So it's Janeway in prison...
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Oct 7, 2014 17:59
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Just finished seeing both seasons. Don't even care to read the thread, I feel it's petty to squibble over minor things, when all in all it's easily one of the greatest TV shows ever, and I cherish it so much. Right now it's top 2 on my list and just about edged out Breaking Bad; I mean BB had moments of unparalleled brilliance, while every minute of this show was consistently good.
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Oct 8, 2014 11:15
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pigdog posted:Right now it's top 2 on my list and just about edged out Breaking Bad; I mean BB had moments of unparalleled brilliance, while every minute of this show was consistently good. Larry is at least supposed to be irritating.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:26
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Okay, I give you Daya and Bennett. Thought of those as the obligatory slow part in pacing.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:11
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pigdog posted:Just finished seeing both seasons. Don't even care to read the thread, I feel it's petty to squibble over minor things, when all in all it's easily one of the greatest TV shows ever, and I cherish it so much. I can't bother to read anyone elses opinion but allow me to make this semi-outlandish statement. Don't bother calling me on it either because its petty to squabble over such things!
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Oct 10, 2014 00:28
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Like, it's great, and definitely in my top 10, but saying it's better than Breaking Bad... 
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Oct 10, 2014 01:09
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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:Like, it's great, and definitely in my top 10, but saying it's better than Breaking Bad... Breaking Bad isn't even that good, but I feel it's petty to squibble over minor things.
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Oct 10, 2014 09:21
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Just stating my opinion, man; you don't need to share it.
pigdog fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 10:33
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