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QuoProQuid posted:This was actually commissioned by the studio to help advertise for the film. I'm not sure if it is still the case, but you could buy the "Amazing Amy Collection" on Amazon, which included a few short stories and illustrations from the fictional series. I think a few illustrations end up in the background,, most notably at the release of "Amy's Big Day." The blu-ray comes with a book too. I'm disappointed in the lack of extras compared to previous Fincher releases though (only a commentary)
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Jan 21, 2015 02:49
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I finally saw this and couldn't wait to come here and read how 'problematic' people thought the movie was. You didn't disappoint, CineD! For content: it may not be a particularly deep or original theme, but I really did appreciate the movie's whole thing about the way we present ourselves to our partners (especially in the beginning of the relationship) and how we really are, and the different ways people react when their "real" significant other surfaces. And it's definitely true that many couples are willing to keep going as long they can keep the illusion up, despite knowing the whole thing's a sham.
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Jan 26, 2015 13:26
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lizardman posted:I finally saw this and couldn't wait to come here and read how 'problematic' people thought the movie was. You didn't disappoint, CineD!
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Jan 26, 2015 14:27
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I'm only like 20 minutes in and maybe I'm just crazy, but the dialog in this movie seems absolutely horrible.
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Feb 11, 2015 03:55
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I really wish it had ended as Amy pulls up the driveway and tells him she loves him. That would have avoided the only really problematic scene in the movie, where only one brave cop has the courage to question whether Amy was actually raped. As if there's some taboo on questioning rape victims. Have a look at the reactions to the Roman Polanski or Bill Cosby accusations and you'll see that questioning the stories and moral characters of rape victims is practically a national sport. The first half works because it's a murder accusation. It's not the first reaction to go "I'll bet they didn't actually get murdered. They probably decided to commit suicide then changed their mind."
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Feb 11, 2015 04:00
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NESguerilla posted:I'm only like 20 minutes in and maybe I'm just crazy, but the dialog in this movie seems absolutely horrible. It plays up the cutesy romantic comedy dialogue to the max in the flashback scenes. It's intentionally grating, but still grating.
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Feb 11, 2015 05:09
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When I read the book I was hoping that things would go full dark comedy he'd be like "OH YOU!" and accept her back wholeheartedly and they'd fall in love all over again. I dunno why in the gently caress that is how I reacted but I just love her character so much and wanted her to get what she wanted. Nitpicky complaint: I like how they send her home from the hospital still covered in blood
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Feb 11, 2015 05:37
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NESguerilla posted:I'm only like 20 minutes in and maybe I'm just crazy, but the dialog in this movie seems absolutely horrible. What'd you think after (presumably) finishing the movie? I thought the dialogue was atrocious throughout.
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Feb 11, 2015 16:27
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The movie finished and all I could think was "this was a weird movie". Not like astounding, or bad, just weird. Maybe its the oppressive suffocating feel of how the film is paced and shot, but it never settles into a place that feels comfortable. I liked it, and I definitely don't think it was misogynistic, but it just left a weird feeling about it when I was done. There are a number of powerful sequences, and I will agree that anyone has read a noir novel knew from the get go that there was no way Nick actually murdered her, but it was good to see that they develop the potential that he could have as the first act unfolds. Personally I think the film feels a little slow until we get to the mid movie reveal that Amy ain't dead, then it's sort of a bum rush to finish almost. I'm assuming the weird feel is intentional, in which case job well done Fincher, but I would agree with the posters that noted it's not "entertaining". Although I also think it wasn't built as entertainment of the usual sort. Good film, just weird. It's the prime word I want to use to describe the film, it's definitely unconventional in a lot of ways.
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Feb 13, 2015 03:07
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Snowman_McK posted:I really wish it had ended as Amy pulls up the driveway and tells him she loves him. That would have avoided the only really problematic scene in the movie, where only one brave cop has the courage to question whether Amy was actually raped. As if there's some taboo on questioning rape victims. Have a look at the reactions to the Roman Polanski or Bill Cosby accusations and you'll see that questioning the stories and moral characters of rape victims is practically a national sport. The first half works because it's a murder accusation. It's not the first reaction to go "I'll bet they didn't actually get murdered. They probably decided to commit suicide then changed their mind." I would've been cool with it ending when Affleck was holding his cat in fear.
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Feb 13, 2015 03:43
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Mira posted:What'd you think after (presumably) finishing the movie? I thought the dialogue was atrocious throughout. I turned it off and finished it tonight. I thought for the most part it was really bad. Not the entire movie, just the dialog. I thought the last half at least was interesting but I don't even know what I think about all of it. I think agree with the guy above that more than anything it was just weird.
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Feb 13, 2015 08:43
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NESguerilla posted:I turned it off and finished it tonight. I thought for the most part it was really bad. Not the entire movie, just the dialog. I thought the last half at least was interesting but I don't even know what I think about all of it. I think agree with the guy above that more than anything it was just weird. Agree on the weirdness. Loved the brother-sister relationship, loved Kim DIckens. Liked how we didn't have to endure scenes of the marriage breaking down, I think we all get how things can go bad and what it looks like. Certain things seemed preposterous. I didn't like the murder weapon being left in fireplace, the diary partly burned in the furnace, or the stuff being stored in the woodshed (surely the purchases took place over an extended period of time, requiring multiple trips to the shed, and Pike was never seen, nor did the sister ever go into the shed?). The whole Neil Patrick Harris thing seemed absurd as well. Pike was intelligent, researched the true crime genre, extensively planned everything out. I wish they made her smarter (I understand that this was an adaptation). After she dropped her money belt at the mini golf course and knew she was exposed, she should have taken precautions, such as dividing the money into multiple belts and giving up one of them if robbed. The clue envelopes were too obvious. I just didn't like the evil mastermind acting so stupidly. Of course people make mistakes, but this wasn't Fargo. It would have been more interesting if it was more of a cat and mouse triangle between 3 really sharp parties, Pike, Dickens, and Tyler Perry (who I thought was solid). There was too much focus on the media circus, which I found really boring. It would have been cool if Pike got figured out because she overlooked something that an intelligent person could conceivably have overlooked, and it took someone even smarter to catch it. When we realize that Pike is alive and she's driving on the bridge laying everything out, I was so stoked. But almost everything that came after really didn't work for me, so by the end it felt like a well-made letdown. Maybe that's why it felt so weird, it was so well-made that the flaws are hard to fathom.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:08
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The ridiculous romantic dialog and increasingly ridiculous schemes work well and are really funny as a black comedy/satire of police procedurals. Nick's big stupid grin when he says "it's like an episode of CSI!" early on is great. The plausibility of the crime and the sloppiness of Amy's methods aren't really the point. If you didn't like the media stuff then yeah I can see not liking it at all, everything hinged on that.
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Feb 13, 2015 18:26
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Surlaw posted:The ridiculous romantic dialog and increasingly ridiculous schemes work well and are really funny as a black comedy/satire of police procedurals. Nick's big stupid grin when he says "it's like an episode of CSI!" early on is great. Interesting. The satire of the media and how it can be manipulated just seemed old, tired and not particularly insightful. The crimes/sloppiness may not have been the point, but it just didn't fit together. Seemed like a pretty big part of the story to me, and I don't see how making her so sloppy and dumb makes for a better movie.
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Feb 13, 2015 19:37
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socketwrencher posted:Interesting. The satire of the media and how it can be manipulated just seemed old, tired and not particularly insightful. She may be a smart person and a good liar but she's not a seasoned, professional criminal. In fact, that's the entire point of her getting robbed by her weekly rate hotel buddy.
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Feb 13, 2015 21:46
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Yeah, there's a lot about how Amy treats and manipulates class here and the robbery is the best part. She 100% fools the rich guy, her middle class husband takes half the movie to figure out something's wrong, and the "trashy" characters see through her immediately. Her sloppiness is a big part of being a rich person playing a role she's unsuited to, and roles/perception are a huge part of the film.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:08
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Her sloppiness seemed to jibe with how she romanticized all of her actions. It seemed like the perfect plan in theory for some ridiculous mystery story, but it would have fallen apart quickly irl. I don't know if that was a stylistic choice or if the movie was just really ridiculous. Maybe a bit of both?
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Feb 14, 2015 03:17
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:She may be a smart person and a good liar but she's not a seasoned, professional criminal. In fact, that's the entire point of her getting robbed by her weekly rate hotel buddy. Totally agree. She's going to make mistakes. But leaving the bloody murder weapon in the fireplace? Partially burning the diary? Yikes. if it was just one or two silly things, fine, but there were too many of them for me. I believe I'm doing that thing where you miss the forest for the trees.
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Feb 14, 2015 03:21
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Surlaw posted:Yeah, there's a lot about how Amy treats and manipulates class here and the robbery is the best part. She 100% fools the rich guy, her middle class husband takes half the movie to figure out something's wrong, and the "trashy" characters see through her immediately. Her sloppiness is a big part of being a rich person playing a role she's unsuited to, and roles/perception are a huge part of the film. Good points all. Time to reassess.
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Feb 14, 2015 03:23
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NESguerilla posted:Her sloppiness seemed to jibe with how she romanticized all of her actions. It seemed like the perfect plan in theory for some ridiculous mystery story, but it would have fallen apart quickly irl. I don't know if that was a stylistic choice or if the movie was just really ridiculous. Maybe a bit of both? I'd guess stylistic choice as I don't see how anyone looking at the script wouldn't suss out the dumb and dumber nature of her evidence planting. Maybe they liked the contrast with her ostensibly in control and ultra confident persona, and the mistakes symbolized how fuzzy her logic had become after she found out about the affair. I think what I really wanted was a different movie altogether, maybe a twist on that one with Sharon Stone and Michael Douglas, which probably isn't a very good way to evaluate a movie. And of course, I remain astounded that no one in Hollywood consulted with me before the script was approved. I'm going to have to make some calls.
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Feb 14, 2015 03:53
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I'm not entirely sure she was supposed to be sloppy in the fiction of the movie. If it was a stylistic choice, the movie was intentionally hammy. The holes in her plan never really came into play, at east in regards to the police.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:10
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NESguerilla posted:I'm not entirely sure she was supposed to be sloppy in the fiction of the movie. If it was a stylistic choice, the movie was intentionally hammy. The holes in her plan never really came into play, at east in regards to the police. The holes seemed to lead Dickens to suspect something was off, and even if she hadn't been robbed and forced to employ the NPH option it's unlikely her plan would have worked, but I think I catch your drift.
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Feb 14, 2015 04:33
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NESguerilla posted:I'm not entirely sure she was supposed to be sloppy in the fiction of the movie. If it was a stylistic choice, the movie was intentionally hammy. The holes in her plan never really came into play, at east in regards to the police. She was, Amy isn't meant to be a criminal genius, she's a narcissist who would be so sure of her plan that she would overlook basic things, hasn't done this before and had the emotional maturity of a child.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:32
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She's incredibly good at taking advantage of people who want her to be what she wants them to want her to be, which is all the sheltered doofuses she grew up around and associates with, but as soon as she runs into anyone who's both seen poo poo and eaten it, her image falls apart.
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Feb 14, 2015 06:43
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Just saw this this weekend. Can someone explain the shed with all the stuff in it. If the cops would have found it first with the clues wouldn't that make it seem like she bought that all for him and the murder weapon make no sense since the dolls are wrapped up? I feel like I missed something there.
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Feb 16, 2015 10:01
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I'm not 100% sure on the details now, but I think it was bought in a way to implicate him in spending on the money on his mancave with big-rear end TVs and robot dogs.
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Feb 16, 2015 10:41
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The point of the shed stuff was to make it look like he killed her for insurance money because he accumulated so much debt. That's why she had him sign off on an increased policy before all of this started.
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Feb 16, 2015 17:00
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sportsgenius86 posted:The point of the shed stuff was to make it look like he killed her for insurance money because he accumulated so much debt. But that and the present still doesn't make sense being their wrapped up if the police found it first. If her clues led them to the shed that would mean to the police that she knows about it
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Feb 16, 2015 17:14
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Taste the Rainbugh posted:But that and the present still doesn't make sense being their wrapped up if the police found it first. If her clues led them to the shed that would mean to the police that she knows about it The shed made no sense to me either. The consensus seems to be that despite her intelligence and planning, she was out of her depth and just made several sloppy mistakes. I didn't like this explanation at first because I thought it made for a worse movie, and wish she would have slipped up on something less moronic (like perhaps being ID'ed by the person she bought the car from), but upon reflection, maybe the sloppiness isn't so far-fetched given her background and state of mind.
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Feb 16, 2015 18:33
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Even in films that literally feature master criminals (take your pick, To Live And Die In L.A., Rififi, whatever you like), they all make suboptimal choices based on their characterization. Otherwise, you would have no film. I don't think I've ever even seen a "pure procedural" where someone plans and executes a perfect crime with no hiccups or bad decisions.
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Feb 16, 2015 18:48
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Even in films that literally feature master criminals (take your pick, To Live And Die In L.A., Rififi, whatever you like), they all make suboptimal choices based on their characterization. Otherwise, you would have no film. I don't think I've ever even seen a "pure procedural" where someone plans and executes a perfect crime with no hiccups or bad decisions. Now I'm thinking about To Live & Die in LA - the perfect plan was not Defoe's counterfeiting, but the constant gently caress-ups by Petersen and Monkey Shines guy, right?
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Feb 16, 2015 19:02
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Taste the Rainbugh posted:But that and the present still doesn't make sense being their wrapped up if the police found it first. If her clues led them to the shed that would mean to the police that she knows about it Yeah. I'm ok with her character making mistakes, but the shed didn't work at all.
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Feb 16, 2015 19:14
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Even in films that literally feature master criminals (take your pick, To Live And Die In L.A., Rififi, whatever you like), they all make suboptimal choices based on their characterization. Otherwise, you would have no film. I don't think I've ever even seen a "pure procedural" where someone plans and executes a perfect crime with no hiccups or bad decisions. Agreed, but it's the nature of the mistakes and the sheer number of really dumb ones that can take you out of a movie. How about Basic Instinct?
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Feb 16, 2015 19:21
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Parachute posted:Now I'm thinking about To Live & Die in LA - the perfect plan was not Defoe's counterfeiting, but the constant gently caress-ups by Petersen and Monkey Shines guy, right? Happens a lot in Michael Mann (I know who directed it, but it is a Michael Mann movie straight up) movies, having to rely on others is inherently unreliable.
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Feb 16, 2015 19:22
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Amy's vindictiveness outweighs her logic. She shouldn't have left the notes for Nick at all but that's what makes her fun to watch.
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Feb 16, 2015 19:57
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People are missing the punchline of the shed: Amy is setting up the ultimate story that Nick killed her for the missing money, which she spent buying him thousands of dollars in gifts. It's the perfect example of her externalizing her feelings of self-sacrifice, and feeling unappreciated. "I'm the perfect housewife; I bought all these things for my husband, and he killed me with the very gift that I gave him." The events that actually occur in the film are her 'backup plan', where Nick discovers the shed before the cops. It's not exactly what she wanted, but still makes it look like he killed her for the insurance money and bought all those things for himself.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:55
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Given her disdain for those in the underclass, I very much enjoyed watching Amy getting owned by those poor people
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Feb 17, 2015 02:05
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For all her "I'm not a controlling bitch", she and many of the audience don't realize that that's exactly what she is: her plan only makes sense because she's the one who controls parts of her life with her husband, namely the finances. Who has the money to buy the shed stuff with? Who's the one that searches for a bigger insurance? Who gave money for the siblings's bar? And it works because her husband doesn't seem too terribly interested on those things, feeling it's easier to just let it all in her hands. Amy can only control people that let her have that control. And when they try to get out of that control? You better watch out, because how dare you! By trying to not be controlled by her, you're implying that you're unhappy. And how can that be, when she's done so much for you/the relationship? So, the fault must lie with the other person, not herself. I like the scene with the thieves couple, because it shows how Amy's world crumbles when she's not in control. I also like the book/engagement party scene, since we can see the foundations of her philosophy: Instead of the real Amy, people vastly prefer the book Amy, and it's only when her life approaches that fiction that people look at her again. So she constantly tries to live in a fiction, never understanding why her boyfriends/husband want to get out of it.
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Feb 17, 2015 05:19
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Criminal Minded posted:Also, the casting in this movie is across-the-board hilarious. Affleck as the dull Midwestern hunk, Tyler Perry as the master manipulator of stereotypes, Emily Ratajkowski as ditz-with-big-tits, NPH as creepy rich bachelor... Missi Pyle was so spot on as a Nancy Grace character, I actually thought it was Nancy Grace at first.
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Feb 20, 2015 05:01
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Chairman Capone posted:Missi Pyle was so spot on as a Nancy Grace character, I actually thought it was Nancy Grace at first. If they had cast the actual Nancy Grace I'd probably have turned off the TV right then and there.
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Feb 22, 2015 04:59
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