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I'm more or less looking for advice and I'm not sure where or how to ask for it but this seems like a good place to start. I'm just looking for any feedback for someone who may be familiar with this type of thing. Last Saturday we adopted a dog from a Humane Society. The dog was advertised as being about 1 year old w/parvo vaccination. At the time the person helping my wife with the dog mentioned that he had an upset stomach earlier and that they would need to check on him. Eventually they cleared him, gave him a "doggy tums" (their words) and sent him home with us. When I first saw him Saturday evening he was being lethargic but we chalked it up to him being in a new environment etc.. On Sunday he didn't seem any better and was not eating or drinking and later that night he had bloody diarrhea. My wife took him to the emergency hospital that Sunday night where the next day he was diagnosed with parvo. The bonus is we also found out he's probably 4 or 5 years old. At this point the little guy has been in the hospital for 4 days and he is showing some signs of improvement. So far we are up $2500 in expenses with more to come. The Humane Society gave us pet insurance but it looks like that will only cover $750 of this. We feel like we were misled and it seems the Humane Society didn't follow their own protocol for identifying and treating sick dogs. My wife did sign a contract but in the contract it states that if a dog shows symptoms of disease it will be isolated and cared for. In retrospect it's obvious the dog had parvo Saturday when they gave him to us and they gave him anti-nausea medication to quell his symptoms. I can't say that I feel like they knew he had something dangerous but the signs were there. We all understand that the Humane Society is doing good work on a small budget but we feel really let down by them. My wife is entertaining the idea of trying to recoup some of the costs for this incident somehow. We are in the process of talking to family friend lawyer to see what our options are. I kind of feel like a jerk for coming down hard on the Humane Society but it really seems like they were negligent here. Does anyone have any advice or thoughts on this? On a lighter note when looking up the parvo symptoms it was mentioned that the diarrhea has a distinctive smell and holy poo poo that is true. It's like a normal terrible poop smell turned up to 11, much more intense and pungent. That poo poo made the whole house smell.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:24
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What did they say when you contacted them and told them the dog has parvo?
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Feb 11, 2015 19:22
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They explained the intake process and did not extend any offers to us. They did ask to be kept up to date as to the dog's health. Also they reached out to another family who had adopted one of the dog's kennel mates so that they could watch out for symptoms. They then quarantined the 3rd dog that was his other kennel mate. That's about it. edit: they did clarify that the "doggy tums" that was administered was some anti-nausea medication. UFOTacoMan fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 20:48
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First of all, I'm sorry that this is happening. What a nightmare. Did you ask the Humane Society about the parvo vaccine he was supposedly administered? If you're specifically looking for legal advice about any wrongdoing or negligence the Humane Society may be responsible for, there's a legal advice megathread in A/T. Best of luck. I hope the little dude makes it.
Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 21:52
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Any shelter worker worth a poo poo should recognize the appearance and smell of parvo poop and recognize the symptoms and to me personally they sound negligent as gently caress. It'd be one thing if you got him during the incubation period and he didn't begin showing symptoms until days later, but they knew he was sick. I'd be massively pissed, parvo spreads like wildfire and comtaminates soil for years, if you had other animals this could have put them at risk and just no, they should at least be paying his medical bills, gently caress that.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:56
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Thanks for the responses everyone. I may approach the A/T megathread once I have my hands on the contract (not at home at the moment) and if our lawyer friend doesn't get back to us soon.Pixelated Dragon posted:First of all, I'm sorry that this is happening. What a nightmare. Did you ask the Humane Society about the parvo vaccine he was supposedly administered? If you're specifically looking for legal advice about any wrongdoing or negligence the Humane Society may be responsible for, there's a legal advice megathread in A/T. Best of luck. I hope the little dude makes it. Thanks for your sympathy. Regarding the parvo vaccine, he was at a shelter before he went to the Humane Society. The documents that came with him from the shelter indicate that he had the parvo vaccination done there before moving to the Humane Society. We have those documents. The dog came from a hoarding situation that took a trial to sort out, so he was in the shelter while the trial was going on which took almost a year. Once the trial concluded he was placed at the Humane Society for adoption.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:22
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Sounds like a lovely humane society doing poo poo work to me. If you have a parvo outbreak (and that's what this is), you don't just quarantine a dog who happened to be a kennel mate. You quarantine everything because it's probably going to spread to everything without a parvo shot (and sometimes even some with a parvo shot).
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Feb 11, 2015 22:37
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:Thanks for the responses everyone. I may approach the A/T megathread once I have my hands on the contract (not at home at the moment) and if our lawyer friend doesn't get back to us soon. I'm sorry you are going through this OP. Definitely get in touch with a lawyer or legal professional, this is some hot bullshit on the shelter's part. If they knew the dog was sick and sent it home anyway, that's negligent. Keep us up to date.
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Feb 12, 2015 00:15
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I'm sorry you have to deal with this, and good on you for taking care of the dog regardless. It's an expensive and difficult proposition taking care of a parvo-dog, and you are a good person for sticking with it. That said, I am a shelter manager and maybe can give more perspective. Any shelter worth a poo poo will vaccinate every dog with DAPP on intake (one of those P's is parvovirus). However, as quite a few measles patients in California can attest, a vaccine does not guarantee immunity. At a year old (that is probably a guess on the shelter's part, if he has all his adult teeth they are going entirely off the condition of the teeth), if he ended up in a shelter it is highly probably he was never vaccinated before entering care. We vaccinate puppies every 2 weeks til 16 weeks, then at a year, then annually. Adult dogs with no confirmed vaccine history are given the vaccine at intake then 2 weeks later as a booster. Dogs under 2 years are at substantially higher risk of contracting the virus than older dogs, regardless of vaccine history. Parvovirus usually takes up to two weeks to incubate. This means that the dog probably wasn't showing symptoms before you adopted it. Even the day you took it home when it had "an upset stomach" would not necessarily count as a symptom of disease. Dogs throw up sometimes. Dogs eat weird poo poo, shelter dogs are constantly stressed, and it just happens. One incident or day of vomiting is not indicative of systemic disease if there are no other symptoms. Of course if there was blood or the above-mentioned parvo smell, that would certainly change things. Further, dogs with parvo frequently "turn" overnight. A nauseous or even perfectly healthy dog one day can be actively dying from the virus the next day. quote:If you have a parvo outbreak (and that's what this is), you don't just quarantine a dog who happened to be a kennel mate. You quarantine everything because it's probably going to spread to everything without a parvo shot (and sometimes even some with a parvo shot). As horrible as it is to deal with, it can happen at any shelter at any time. Good cleaning and quarantine processes can reduce the risk, but as it has been mentioned here, parvovirus is incredibly hardy and durable. It can lie dormant in soil for more than 2 years and reactivate with a day of good weather. There is no way to guarantee safety. To reiterate, a parvo outbreak is literally a shelter worker's worst nightmare. Nobody wants to go to work and euthanize 70 dogs puking and making GBS threads blood, and that is a very real thing that can and does happen even today. Again, I am sorry this happened to you. I do think it is a very good idea to try to get a sit-down with ops management at the shelter and discuss what happened. Any decent shelter will bend over backwards to try to help an adopter out, and I think if you give them a shot they will try to work with you. The reality though is that most shelters have incredibly limited resources, and the contract you signed releases them from any liability for costs incurred after you took the dog home. They probably can't afford to pay you back, and if they could, they would be actively sacrificing the care they can provide to animals to do so. I don't think that's what you want.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:39
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If you have the paperwork showing the vaccination, depending on the time frame and the vaccine manufacturer you may be able to recoup some costs from them. I don't know about all of them, but, for instance, Merial will pay $500-$1500 per case if you can provide records that the patient was appropriately vaccinated with their DAPP and got parvo anyway. I've only done that as the treating veterinarian, so I'm not sure of the process for an owner or a shelter dog, but it's worth looking into.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:15
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mookerson posted:The reality though is that most shelters have incredibly limited resources, and the contract you signed releases them from any liability for costs incurred after you took the dog home. They probably can't afford to pay you back, and if they could, they would be actively sacrificing the care they can provide to animals to do so. I don't think that's what you want. Obviously the contract is sight unseen but I think those contract terms would not necessarily stand up to much scrutiny given the adoption took place while the dog was infected with a potentially fatal disease that the adopter was not aware of. Equally, that final point is bollocks - of course no one wants that but equally it is patently not right to push financial responsibility onto the adopter when the dog was infected within the shelter and they had no knowledge of the illness. It is equally unreasonable to expect the unaware adopter to be in a better position to pay a sudden $2.5k pet bill - that is not pocket change. If the dog had not been adopted that day then the parvo would have been more apparent and the shelter would have had to treat it anyway.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:18
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:Thanks for the responses everyone. I may approach the A/T megathread once I have my hands on the contract (not at home at the moment) and if our lawyer friend doesn't get back to us soon. The vaccine is only good for a year. I was simply wondering about the timing of the vaccine because of the possibility that the vaccine caused the illness, but that doesn't appear to be the case if it was administered almost a year ago. Dr. Chaco posted:If you have the paperwork showing the vaccination, depending on the time frame and the vaccine manufacturer you may be able to recoup some costs from them. I don't know about all of them, but, for instance, Merial will pay $500-$1500 per case if you can provide records that the patient was appropriately vaccinated with their DAPP and got parvo anyway. I've only done that as the treating veterinarian, so I'm not sure of the process for an owner or a shelter dog, but it's worth looking into. The Humane Society should be able to contact the old shelter, and the old shelter should know who the treating veterinarian was that administered the vaccine, and that veterinarian should be able to find out the manufacturer. Ideally, they could follow the trail back. It wouldn't happen straight away but you could probably press them into divulging this information. Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 05:18
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Thanks for all the responses and advice everyone. I sincerely appreciate it. Mookerson thanks for providing more context to the situation, I was hoping to hear from someone in your position. Dr. Chaco and Pixelated Dragon, thanks for the ideas regarding the vaccine manufacturer. Everyone thanks for the encouragement and support. He went in Sunday night so we are almost on the 4th day. He had a tube put into his stomach through his nostril to remove fluid from his stomach, that's currently over with I believe. Now he is still not eating, he is still nauseous and his white blood count is still low. He is not doing very well at the moment. From what I understand the longer he hangs around the better his chances of recovery become but it seems like over the past 24 hours we've not heard any good news. Here's his picture:  
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Feb 12, 2015 14:31
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mookerson posted:The reality though is that most shelters have incredibly limited resources, and the contract you signed releases them from any liability for costs incurred after you took the dog home. You brought up some really good points. A lot of contracts absolve the shelter of any responsibility for illnesses and injuries that happen after the animal is released to the new owner. That's how it was worded when I adopted my cat, who turned out to have an ear infection. They reimbursed the cost of treating it because he had the infection before he was passed on to me but nobody at the shelter had noticed. I smelled it when we got home and I put my face near his, then I took him to the vet the next morning. I didn't need to argue with the shelter at all. This was obviously a lot less costly and a lot less life-threatening. OP, read over your contract and take a look at how it's worded. Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 17:11
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I don't have it in front of me at the moment but we reviewed it last night. It basically absolves the Humane Society shelter from any responsibility regarding costs incurred after the animal is adopted. It would seem the only way around that would be to argue that the shelter didn't follow their policy of isolating an animal that presents symptoms of a disease. This is also in the contract. If we had just visited the shelter a day later the shelter would have seen the symptoms for sure and we wouldn't have been having this conversation, that's the frustrating part. The update from this morning is not good. Later this morning my wife got a voice mail from the vet and is trying to find time to call them back to discuss things while she is at work. One of the worse parts about this is that our 15 year old dog passed away in October and this was supposed to be the happy thing that helps us and our 4 year old bring a dog back into our lives. It makes us very weary of going the shelter route again.
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Feb 12, 2015 17:52
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:I don't have it in front of me at the moment but we reviewed it last night. It basically absolves the Humane Society shelter from any responsibility regarding costs incurred after the animal is adopted. They told you the dog had an upset stomach that day you adopted him and they gave him anti-nausea medication. They didn't identify it as parvo but he was displaying symptoms while in their custody. Legally you may have a leg to stand on, but I agree that suing the Humane Society for the full cost seems punitive. Taking it out of the hide of an organization that is trying to do good work and is already strapped for cash doesn't seem fair, especially since they had no way of knowing it was parvo just because the dog puked. That energy would be much better spent making sure the Humane Society aggressively addresses the outbreak. UFOTofuTacoCat posted:The update from this morning is not good. Later this morning my wife got a voice mail from the vet and is trying to find time to call them back to discuss things while she is at work. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. You are a very compassionate person for taking care of this dog anyway. Some people would have just given him back to the shelter. Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 18:02
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Tamarillo posted:Obviously the contract is sight unseen but I think those contract terms would not necessarily stand up to much scrutiny given the adoption took place while the dog was infected with a potentially fatal disease that the adopter was not aware of. A few points here: - These contracts are tested day in and day out. Large shelters with real lawyers have them drawn up, and smaller shelters typically poach documents from places with more resources. - The dog was infected but not showing signs of a potentially fatal disease. Just because he threw up once does not mean he is ill. As stated dogs will throw up for many reasons, most of them not involving infectious disease. Parvo tests cost about $20. My shelter tests any animal with bloody stool, bloody vomit, or liquid diarrhea (fecal score: 0). Of those, less than 1% end up parvo positive. Further, dogs carrying parvovirus do not necessarily present symptoms, and if the viral load is low or the fecal swab doesn't catch sufficient fecal material to test positive, the test will result in a false negative. I have no idea of the facts of this case, but you are using some really inflammatory language. - Even if you wanted to pursue the legal route, most jurisdictions will cap damages to the "fair market value" of the animal. I'll give you a hint: the fair market value of a shelter dog does not begin to approach the cost of treating a disease like this. OP: If your medical summary from the shelter does not list the manufacturer, you can call and request it from the issuing shelter. Most places use only one manufacturer unless they rely on donated vaccines (yuck). Did your paperwork indicate what anti-nausea medication was given on the day you brought him home? Assuming they are medding appropriately, this will give more context on what the true symptoms actually were. Most likely it was famotidine (Pepcid) which is not something that would be given with bloody or sustained vomiting. I firmly agree with the poster who said if you want to make a difference, you should push back at the shelter to trace and deal with the potential parvo. I missed the part where you said your dog was in care for over a year before he became symptomatic, which means that either they or the previous shelter certainly have other parvo+ animals. I hope you have gotten some good news since your last post.
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Feb 13, 2015 04:09
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Same. You're a good dude, OP. That dog is lucky to have you regardless of the outcome of all this.
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Feb 13, 2015 04:12
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No good news yet but we're swinging for the fences. They did the blood plasma infusion later in the afternoon today. We visited him shortly after and he was out of it. White blood cell count improved slightly but still very low. Still nauseous and can't eat or drink. Looking at the paperwork it seems the last DA2PPVv (Parvo Vaccine) was given on 1/23/2015 and it was Duramune Max5, manufacturer is Boehinger Ingelheim. The dog actually had been given 3 of those vaccinations in total. That one and two more the previous year in march 2014.
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Feb 13, 2015 04:36
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I forgot to mention that the medical summary we have didn't seem to show the anti-nausea medication. My wife should be getting in touch with the vet this morning to see how things are going.
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Feb 13, 2015 14:31
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Everyone did what they could, his liver started having problems so the decision was made to euthanize him last night. RIP Grover, we hardly knew ye.
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Feb 14, 2015 15:36
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How awful. I'm so sorry. You stood by the little fella and made the right call. Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 17:04
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I'm sorry.  Sending hugs
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Feb 14, 2015 20:22
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Wow, I'm so sorry UFO.
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Feb 14, 2015 21:43
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Very sorry to hear this, thank you for doing all that you could.
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Feb 16, 2015 16:11
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Thanks for the condolences everyone. As was suggested, we will be looking further into seeing if we can get some compensation from the vaccine manufacturer. Also, we've relayed our experience to the Humane Society we adopted the dog from and we are asking if they can at least give us what they would have spent on the dog to treat parvo at their location since they do treatments on site. I'll update when there is any news. Thanks for the support everyone!
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Feb 16, 2015 16:26
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:Thanks for the condolences everyone. As was suggested, we will be looking further into seeing if we can get some compensation from the vaccine manufacturer. Also, we've relayed our experience to the Humane Society we adopted the dog from and we are asking if they can at least give us what they would have spent on the dog to treat parvo at their location since they do treatments on site. My condolences. What a lovely thing to happen. At least Grover spent his last days with a family who loved and cared for him.
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Feb 17, 2015 04:37
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inkblottime posted:My condolences. What a lovely thing to happen. At least Grover spent his last days with a family who loved and cared for him.
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Feb 17, 2015 13:16
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