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Calipark
Feb 1, 2008

That's cool.

Takanago posted:

Thanks for the meaty criticism of Slide, Crash, Bounce on the stream. Hearing criticism that is pretty accurate is kind of tough, but it's giving me a lot to think about and I'm really thankful for that. Seeing all the ways it could be better, and ways it didn't quite hit the mark does honestly kind of frustrate me, but when I think back to that month of dev work I'm also just really glad that I managed to get it that far.

The true value of participating in a game jam is learning your limits and reflecting on what works and what doesn't when your game is scrutinized by an average player. I think you did a fantastic job.

Also going from Anime Club Text Quest to this is an immense leap forward, you should be proud as hell.

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Splode
Jun 18, 2013

put some clothes on you little freak

Xibanya posted:

I'm really surprised our game didn't make it past the first round of judging. I would be lying if I said I wasn't devastated. However because of this project, I've gotten close to some people who are so talented, so creative, so funny, and so kind. I am overwhelmed by the gratitude I feel for the incredible love and effort that everyone on my team put into Slam Fighter II, from staying up with me until 4 in the morning discussing how to capture just the right emotional texture in a song to enduring grueling three hour long recording sessions in which I demanded greater fidelity to the flow of DMX than was probably necessary. I am truly humbled. Melanie, Michael, Christopher, and Johnny -- because I was fortunate enough to collaborate with all of you, I still feel like a winner. :unsmith:

pretty dumb, this was the best game in the jam IMO and there were several games in the list of 12 that just aren't nearly as good. You were robbed, judges suck

sighnoceros
Mar 11, 2007
:qq: GOONS ARE MEAN :qq:

Xibanya posted:

I'm really surprised our game didn't make it past the first round of judging. I would be lying if I said I wasn't devastated. However because of this project, I've gotten close to some people who are so talented, so creative, so funny, and so kind. I am overwhelmed by the gratitude I feel for the incredible love and effort that everyone on my team put into Slam Fighter II, from staying up with me until 4 in the morning discussing how to capture just the right emotional texture in a song to enduring grueling three hour long recording sessions in which I demanded greater fidelity to the flow of DMX than was probably necessary. I am truly humbled. Melanie, Michael, Christopher, and Johnny -- because I was fortunate enough to collaborate with all of you, I still feel like a winner. :unsmith:

Not trying to justify any picks, and I'm not a judge. I'm going to do a little mini-review with some criticisms that you will hopefully find useful. Understand I'm not trying to poo poo on your game or anything, just pointing out some of the pieces that detract from the overall presentation.

Generally, I think in game jam situations gameplay tends to be king. You have to take the game experience as a whole. Your game's music and voice work and sprite work is awesome. There is a staggering amount of great and unique content between the different character's animations, insults, and music. But the rest of the visuals don't really match up with the sprite work, so it ends up having a clashing kind of style and seems unfinished (this is understandable for a game of this scope on a short dev timeline). So even though the character animations and portraits are great, the overall visual impact is muddled.

Also, and I know this is a hard criticism to hear, but the gameplay itself is not incredibly compelling in my opinion. I understand that the same can be said for a ton of these games, but at its core it's a slow-paced typing game. Typically the enjoyable part of rhythm games is when you get to the point where you can do long strings of fast beats, but your game doesn't really allow for that type of play. The character slams and stuff are great, and players want to hear them, but the actual typing part basically just feels like a means to that end. It's not a very strong gameplay foundation on its own. The typing itself also doesn't feel very responsive, like there's not a lot of feedback. When you're nailing those letters, I want big success noises and shiny particles and poo poo to pop out.

The problem ends up being that even though you have multiple characters with unique dialog, people don't hear it because the game doesn't keep them long enough to experience it all. If, for example, your roster was smaller and the time spent on creating the other characters was put towards polishing up the other areas of the game (I know the work load doesn't necessarily overlap), you would probably have a better overall gameplay experience.

For my first SAGDC game (and first game ever), I made a lovely little 2d walking simulator with a pseudo-RPG text encounter system. And the whole point of the game was to read and laugh at the encounters. I spent a ton of time writing up different encounters and you had a list of inventory items and I wrote unique interactions of every item with every encounter and I was really proud of how funny it was. I had my friends cracking up at them and I thought they were really good. But the judges all basically hated it. They thought the encounters were annoying to deal with, but they were the core of the gameplay from my perspective. But it didn't matter, funny or not, they weren't enough to make the game compelling and/or fun to play.

I was absolutely crushed and I almost swore off game dev entirely. Instead I decided to take that experience and learn from it and ended up winning the whole thing the very next year with my second game ever. Your game is WAAYYY better and bigger than my game was, and the judges don't hate it, in fact it sounds like it just barely didn't make the cut. I know that's probably not much of a consolation, but I just thought I'd share my experience about what I felt was a kinda similar situation.

sighnoceros fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Aug 9, 2015

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005

soooo was what.exe at least in the top 15
i must know this

also nthing that Xibanya got robbed

sighnoceros
Mar 11, 2007
:qq: GOONS ARE MEAN :qq:
I think Jon said on the stream that it was up there. Sounds like it also just barely missed the cut-off.

Heisenberg1276
Apr 13, 2007

dog kisser posted:

Critical Admission Hoo boy, this started out easy then got hard! Strangely satisfying to remove organs and make a big pile, too. I definitely loaded out VIPs with all the best stuff - they didn't need peasant normal elbows or guts, only the best. Which is Positronic Brains in every slot! As mentioned before a couple of times, I'm super bad at gaming, but still managed to get through a couple of stages before dying. Omission Guess: Parachute

I missed this when it was first posted. Thanks for playing :) Positronic Brains are actually slightly worse than normal brains (80% as good) so you should be aiming to fill the VIPs up with all original stuff, and swapping out the prosthetics and junk in the proles. Also, that has to be the worst omission guess I've seen ;)

Last Visible Dog
Jul 30, 2015

Alright, thanks for the Gong Show review of Fraudmode!

I kinda knew I was doomed right from the very first comment, with "This game breaks my heart..." I knew I had messed up in a fundamental way.

I wasn't really aware of the issues while making it. I was figuring the critics' comments would be feedback enough of what you were doing wrong, and you'd be able to tell you were doing well if more critics stuck around to watch. And I thought that that would be enough. I didn't want to add any sort of status indicators to the screen, as I wanted to stay with the implications that you're just showing off a "game" at a trade show. But I see that was a bad decision.

And I guess the game is also really hard? I really have no idea. I can never get the hang of balancing games for someone who isn't me. I dunno.

Anyway, congrats to all the finalists, and thanks to everyone who played my game!

blinkeve1826
Jul 26, 2005

WELCOME TO THE NEW DEATH

Xibanya posted:

I'm really surprised our game didn't make it past the first round of judging. I would be lying if I said I wasn't devastated. However because of this project, I've gotten close to some people who are so talented, so creative, so funny, and so kind. I am overwhelmed by the gratitude I feel for the incredible love and effort that everyone on my team put into Slam Fighter II, from staying up with me until 4 in the morning discussing how to capture just the right emotional texture in a song to enduring grueling three hour long recording sessions in which I demanded greater fidelity to the flow of DMX than was probably necessary. I am truly humbled. Melanie, Michael, Christopher, and Johnny -- because I was fortunate enough to collaborate with all of you, I still feel like a winner. :unsmith:

:glomp: The feeling is so very mutual! <3

sighnoceros posted:

Really awesome feedback

This is really great feedback; thank you. I definitely agree with your (very fair) criticisms, and took notes for potential future builds of the game. (This also reminded me to respond to your last email to me, whoops!)

I totally understand why Xibanya is so down (we all worked hard on it, but she in particular put her heart and soul into this for the entirety of July and beyond), but I am really pleased with what I've gotten from working on this project and on this contest. It was really great to be integral in the development of a game again, rather than a contractor who's brought in towards the end and has more of a limit on exactly how much he/she can shape the character. It was also REALLY cool to be part of that process with two teams simultaneously, and seeing the stark contrasts between both teams' operations and my own integration in them. Beyond that, I'm really impressed with just how much we were able to complete in one month, and excited that we have something I could even see being really successful with a certain market/demographic commercially, if we decide to go that route. I'm really proud of both of my teams' work on this contest.

I also really appreciate JonTerp's kind words (and those of everyone else who verbalized support for Slam Fighter II!) and putting Slam Fighter II in the running for the Community choice vote, and I'm looking forward to seeing the results of that either way. Very excited about Team Critical Admission's inclusion in the Final 12 as well!

Oh, and thanks to everyone who complimented my work as Bunny/Fulana on Slam Fighter II and/or the receptionist in Critical Admission. I really appreciate it! :)

Takanago posted:

One of the big, sad cuts I had to make was the inclusion of voice acting, which probably would have helped the flavor of the game a lot. I even had a nice offer from blinkeve1826 to do some voice work, but I ended up deciding that I was far too behind on basic, critical features to even worry about that. It would have been really nice to include, but oh well.

C'est la vie! Next time. You know how/where to find me. :)

Heisenberg1276
Apr 13, 2007

Last Visible Dog posted:

I wasn't really aware of the issues while making it. I was figuring the critics' comments would be feedback enough of what you were doing wrong, and you'd be able to tell you were doing well if more critics stuck around to watch. And I thought that that would be enough. I didn't want to add any sort of status indicators to the screen, as I wanted to stay with the implications that you're just showing off a "game" at a trade show. But I see that was a bad decision.

I loved the concept of your game - but I think you're right that the major problem is that the feedback on how well you were doing is too indirect.

Our game last year (Public Access Wars) had a similar problem. The goal was to have people look at their own shows and figure out what part of the show people were tuning in to watch - then there'd be bits where you took something off screen and suddenly your audience tuned out - so you make sure you don't do that again. That didn't really work out though because it was so indirect - so the scoring seemed uncontrollable.

I think adding a few icons to the UI would go a long way with fraud mode.

That's not to say it's not fun to play as it is though, you did a good job :)

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
Is the community choice award only going to be from the "top" games then?

There's really only one I'm surprised to see on that list (very surprised, honestly), and several I'm sad didn't make it. There were a lot of good games this year. I'm really surprised one of my top three didn't make it, though! No An Video Game? My other two top three made it (VectoRocket and Life Alert), but I thought An Video Game was one the best games of the year and the clear winner in the Best Narrative category. It's crazy to see it not even in the running.

Neither of my games made it up, but I had a fun time this year and learned a lot, and next time around I'm gonna kick rear end and take names, mark my word. I will be in the finals.

I do wonder if the way things were judged wasn't particularly well-suited to the way things will be won. Each judge can only push two forward, but there are 5 different categories a game can win in. That seems like good odds on needing to toss a potential winner and deciding which two categories are most important.

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Aug 9, 2015

Buffis
Apr 29, 2006

I paid for this
Fallen Rib
Is there any way to watch the gong show on a mobile device?

Im travelling and the twitch past broadcasts section seems desktop only.

blinkeve1826
Jul 26, 2005

WELCOME TO THE NEW DEATH

GlyphGryph posted:

Is the community choice award only going to be from the "top" games then?

...

I do wonder if the way things were judged wasn't particularly well-suited to the way things will be won. Each judge can only push two forward, but there are 5 different categories a game can win in. That seems like good odds on needing to toss a potential winner and deciding which two categories are most important.

I don't intend to instigate anything (and I think you guy are doing a great job organizing all of this), but I have to admit that this struck me as odd as well. It 100% makes sense for the GOTY/Judge's Pick to be determined this way, but seems strange to me that the other categories (especially Community Choice) would be limited solely to the judges' 12 picks. What if the game that actually did have the best narrative, or best use of the theme, or best audio, etc. in the whole jam doesn't fall into those twelve chosen as judges' overall favorites? Just choosing one from one of twelve that were deemed to be most preferred by the judges overall doesn't seem like it'll gauge that appropriately/accurately. Again, it totally makes sense for the GOTY/grand prize/Judges' Pick to be, you know, picked by the judges, but ignoring the other ~30 games that might very well include those that are truly the best in their respective categories doesn't seem fair--especially with the judges' flexibility of overruling the two-from-each-block rule. (The block that only had one game chosen from it for the Final 12 was more than half made up of some of my favorite games from the jam, both overall and in certain specific categories.) I would've brought this up/suggested an alternative earlier, but I didn't realize until last night's Gong Show that this was the case, and that seems to be true for others as well.

I do recognize that it's easier said than done, but I'd love to see a jam-wide community vote weigh into the other categories (aside from Judges' Pick), if not be the sole determining factor for the Community Choice category. Otherwise, it's really the Community Choice Of The Judges' Choices, which is significantly less reflective of the spirit of the jam as a whole, in my opinion.

Afal
Sep 4, 2012

"Tubular! Catch you on the flip side!"

Buffis posted:

Is there any way to watch the gong show on a mobile device?

Im travelling and the twitch past broadcasts section seems desktop only.

They will be on youtube monday I think

JonTerp posted:

We always said we'd be reaching across group lines and trading with other judges if we had a particular game we played we wanted to see in the top 12 that wasn't getting picked. That was how we solved the potential issue with high quality entries getting clumped up in a few select judges.

Thanks for clarifying. I was afraid that that would be a problem from the beginning when it was announced that the top 12 would be the best from each group. Slightly disappointed that some that I thought was really good wasn't on there but as you've said, there were a bunch of pretty decent games this year compared to previous years.

Also, thanks Internet Janitor for that link to The Jack Principles. I'll definitely have a good read of that and see how I could have improved the flow of my game.
Plus thanks to everyone who's given feedback on my game so far. I'm pleased I've been able to create something that's a bit more decent that I've done in previous years and your feedback is greatly appreciated.

I would do my post mortem now but I think I have to finish looking at the rest of the games and get the bounties out first. Best get to that then. :tipshat:

sighnoceros
Mar 11, 2007
:qq: GOONS ARE MEAN :qq:

blinkeve1826 posted:

(This also reminded me to respond to your last email to me, whoops!)

Must be someone else! I don't think I ever ended up emailing you unfortunately. We had some ideas for Impulse to have VO and I mentioned that in the thread but ended up having to cut it in favor of other more critical pieces.

Ziggy Starfucker
Jun 1, 2011

Pillbug

GlyphGryph posted:

I do wonder if the way things were judged wasn't particularly well-suited to the way things will be won. Each judge can only push two forward, but there are 5 different categories a game can win in. That seems like good odds on needing to toss a potential winner and deciding which two categories are most important.

This right here, using the judge's picks to decide the GOTY makes total sense, but using them to decide individual category winners is going to result in some nonsensical decisions where the category winner is clearly outclassed by a game that didn't even get consideration based on the criteria of that category. There really needs to be 2 judge's picks for GOTY and each of the individual categories, also the community choice should really be picked from all of the games and I don't see how restricting it to the judge's picks simplifies the judging process when it's decided by popular vote.

Nanomachine Son
Jan 11, 2007

!
Not too surprised by the top 12, but I'm surprised that Slam Fighter and Hyperkozmo didn't make it, I need to go back and watch the stream to see Coinless, I think I wasn't able to give that game a fair shake since it didn't seem like it ran properly on my machine. I think Impulse and Critical Admission are my two absolute favorites this year though!

We already did a post-mortem for our game and I think my main feeling is that the base mechanic of shield blocking becomes really inconsistent, leading to all kinds of problems with the game being too difficult. I'm really looking forward to reading the judges review though, I think it was difficult to judge from the stream but getting to see someone else finally play through colored my own opinions quite a bit.

If nothing else I'm glad I at least made something this year, felt like a huge jackass the last two years for letting my team down, at least this year I have something I can point at and feel like I did something.

blinkeve1826
Jul 26, 2005

WELCOME TO THE NEW DEATH

sighnoceros posted:

Must be someone else! I don't think I ever ended up emailing you unfortunately. We had some ideas for Impulse to have VO and I mentioned that in the thread but ended up having to cut it in favor of other more critical pieces.

D'oh! It was indeed someone else who'd thought about working with me for VO on the game jam and ended up having to cut it. Well, I appreciated your consideration nonetheless. :xd: Next time!!

Calipark
Feb 1, 2008

That's cool.
We never said the category prizes were limited to the top 12. Just the community vote...

The top 12 is in place to give the judges a base line. We can guarantee going into the deliberations that each judge has played the top 12. Each judge has a time consuming day job, and cannot play every submitted game in any reasonable length of time.

This was a problem previous years where the judging process took all of August.

It also keeps the deliberations from getting silly with one judge defending a game the other judges played very little of and variations on that situation.

That being said a case can be made for any entry. We're being as flexible and fair as we can with the judging process, keep in mind this was all designed to withstand the possibility of getting 100+ entries.

Xibanya
Sep 17, 2012




Clever Betty

JonTerp posted:

We never said the category prizes were limited to the top 12. Just the community vote...

The top 12 is in place to give the judges a base line. We can guarantee going into the deliberations that each judge has played the top 12. Each judge has a time consuming day job, and cannot play every submitted game in any reasonable length of time.

This was a problem previous years where the judging process took all of August.

It also keeps the deliberations from getting silly with one judge defending a game the other judges played very little of and variations on that situation.

That being said a case can be made for any entry. We're being as flexible and fair as we can with the judging process, keep in mind this was all designed to withstand the possibility of getting 100+ entries.

:aaaaa:












:neckbeard:

Polo-Rican
Jul 4, 2004

emptyquote my posts or die

JonTerp posted:

Your Top 12 Picks!
...
Coinless

What the?... is there something here I missed? Should I reinstall it? Last time I played, it seemed like all you could do was watch Breakout, and if you pressed any buttons the screen would shake, but the screenshake had no actual function or purpose.

Tann
Apr 1, 2009

Coinless is odd on my computer, seems to run at 10x speed or something compared to the stream.

Atoramos
Aug 31, 2003

Jim's now a Blind Cave Salamander!


Polo-Rican posted:

What the?... is there something here I missed? Should I reinstall it? Last time I played, it seemed like all you could do was watch Breakout, and if you pressed any buttons the screen would shake, but the screenshake had no actual function or purpose.

You could use the screenshake to control the ball. According to Gong Show, you could use your own images too, which is pretty neat.

I also feel that some outstanding games were left out due to how judging was performed (Tristram, Unarmed, Slide/Crash/Bounce, Vonych all felt like great picks) but I understand why the changes were made: judging wrapped up much faster this year than previous ones. Plus, the competition was fierce this year. I'll admit: I've got more games I'd want put on the top list, than games I'd want removed.

MSPain
Jul 14, 2006

JonTerp posted:

Your Top 12 Picks!

Zero-Grab Kitty
Go Fish!
Sub Optimal
All Senior Citizens Should Have Life Alert
PZZL
Coinless
Conservation of Momentum
Echo
Critical Admission
VectoRocket
Impulse
Sandlot Basenoball


Learn 2 count

Deki
May 12, 2008

It's Hammer Time!
If you think you're surprised by Coinless being in the top 12, try being the guy who made it.

I really liked a lot of the games that I tried that didn't make it to the top list, and the only thing I can really say that detracted from a lot of them, is that they really didn't fit theme at all. All in all I'm pretty shocked and happy that the judges liked the ideas that I put in.

Everdraed
Sep 7, 2003

spankety, spankety, spankety

Last Visible Dog posted:

Alright, thanks for the Gong Show review of Fraudmode!

I kinda knew I was doomed right from the very first comment, with "This game breaks my heart..." I knew I had messed up in a fundamental way.

I wasn't really aware of the issues while making it. I was figuring the critics' comments would be feedback enough of what you were doing wrong, and you'd be able to tell you were doing well if more critics stuck around to watch. And I thought that that would be enough. I didn't want to add any sort of status indicators to the screen, as I wanted to stay with the implications that you're just showing off a "game" at a trade show. But I see that was a bad decision.

And I guess the game is also really hard? I really have no idea. I can never get the hang of balancing games for someone who isn't me. I dunno.

Anyway, congrats to all the finalists, and thanks to everyone who played my game!
Yeah, I was the one whose heart was broken and my review goes into very detailed specifics (which includes a lot of praise too!). As somebody who plays too many games I usually pick up mechanics quickly, and despite playing through all of your levels earnestly and repeatedly, it just felt so incredibly hard to judge which aspects of my play were convincing and which were bringing down my 'performance.'

Part of the reason your game might not feel as hard to you (even to a 'this is braindead simple, I can do it every time no problem' extent) is because you know exactly how its metrics are being judged. Is running across the ground using the mouse judged by how perfectly horizontally level the character is kept? By how consistent the movement speed is maintained? A mix of these and others? Can I be too fast, too slow? If I jitter, or turn repeatedly, or just stop to collect myself and figure out how I want to proceed, is it counted against me? Does failure to do this convincingly have a major impact on what a particular viewer 'rates' me compared to other mechanics I need to fake? Is doing this 'correctly' additive, starting at a base of 0% (I can only improve with attempts), or does each failure bring me down from 100% (I can only hurt myself by doing more than is necessary) or modify a starting neutral 50%? Those are some of the questions I have about how the first needing-to-be-faked aspect of your pseudo-game functions, which still persist after reaching the end 3 times.

On the other hand you wrote these systems, you know what is important and key to faking them. You know whether picking up all the collectibles in a given level will be a huge positive, offsetting any minor errors made to get to them. In contrast, I have guesses. Guesses that I can't confirm, because my ultimate rating mixes my guessed attempts at any particular mechanic with all the other mechanics too. I could have done everything else perfectly, but fatally screwed the pooch when I tried to bounce off bumper springs. By bouncing off the bumper springs unconvincingly, I may have dropped the pseudo-game from looking okay to terrible. I have no way of knowing, all I get is that I failed miserably at the end. After so many levels, it not only hurts to see a 'haha you did TERRIBLE' but it's super frustrating because it feels like you don't have enough info to improve. I love the viewers and their responses, but they aren't specific enough that I can tune my gameplay to them. They react after the fact, vaguely saying a particular mechanic was good or bad (almost always bad) and I have no idea what specifically made it wrong. This compounds tremendously with the many mechanics needed to be faked in conjunction with each other.


I absolutely understand wanting to keep interfaces and numbers that aren't part of the pseudo-game off the screen, and I think you could still do that if you had specific information show up after each level instead. In my mind I see the player going through any of the existing levels, hearing the people make comments and ultimately just leave if they think you're terrible as they currently do, and then on level exit instead of going directly to the next level you move to a recuperation 'oh god what did I just do' behind the curtain screen where you're graded against explicit criteria. Sort of a breakdown of what the viewer/s for that level saw and how they reacted:

[Viewer type] was impressed by your jump physics: felt 80% of your jumps were convincing; [Viewer type] didn't understand why enemies were so lifeless: noticed lack of enemy movement 3 times; [Viewer type] thought your game was buggy as heck: witnessed 5 non-collectible objects and tiles being picked up.

This still isn't quite as good as immediate data on screen when a jump is held too long or arced poorly (heck that could be a tutorial / easy mode option which would be ideal), but it'd definitely be a huge improvement. Granular performance metrics that a player can tune their play against and feel like they're getting better skilled at your game is super important. Normal platformers do this implicitly; you fall into a hole, so in the future you should try holding jump longer. There's immediate, obvious consequences to failure. Your concept doesn't inform implicitly, so you must really take pains to explicitly communicate what a player needs to do to succeed.

I said it on stream and in my review but I'll say it again, I love your concept. With more info given to the player, and general pacing tweaks so the player is gradually acclimated to full list of mechanics that need to be faked, your game can be amazing and unique. Please continue working on it!

This ended up being long as heck so just consider it an addendum to your review I guess!!

Xibanya posted:

I'm really surprised our game didn't make it past the first round of judging.

blinkeve1826 posted:

I don't intend to instigate anything (and I think you guy are doing a great job organizing all of this), but I have to admit that this struck me as odd as well.
Just to reiterate, Slam Fighter II not being on the announced list for the community choice vote was pretty much human error and it's been rightfully added. I'll definitely take some blame for this since I specifically played your game, thought it was solid mechanically with a tremendous amount of effort behind it, but didn't realize it wasn't on the finalized announcement list till it was read live. That list got updated a few times right up to the stream announcement, and if I had kept closer tabs I would have yelled about not seeing Slam Fighter and figured out if we should have had it either switched in for another game or made a thirteenth pick (which feels like the fair way to go at this point).

People were totally right in noticing that Slam Fighter II is a really cool game, wondering why it wasn't included in the community choice, and wanting to know the reasoning behind that. The top 2 picks out of blocks system we're using for community choice is intended as a simple baseline for judging convenience, and is purposefully flexible with a lot of additional judge discussion to try to avoid missing the top games. Even with that, we goofed here. Sorry, and thanks for asking about it civilly without too many cries of corruption!
(despite us all knowing this entire charade is staged by the reptilian Illuminati as sponsored by the vampire-men coalition, of course)

While I think Slam Fighter II deserved to be on the community choice list to a degree that required it being added after the announcement, there's definitely a lot of awesome games that we played that were super painful not to include. It's really tough, especially with how novel and absolutely crazy people get with their games and interactive experiences for this jam; judging these entries against each other and coming up with a winner is always going to include a dollop of subjective opinion. Again, if your game was not one of the community choice picks you are absolutely still eligible for the other categories and we will be looking at the full pool of entries in our discussions.

Everdraed fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Aug 10, 2015

Xibanya
Sep 17, 2012




Clever Betty

Everdraed posted:

Just to reiterate, Slam Fighter II not being on the announced list for the community choice vote was pretty much human error and it's been rightfully added. I'll definitely take some blame for this since I specifically played your game, thought it was solid mechanically with a tremendous amount of effort behind it, but didn't realize it wasn't on the finalized announcement list till it was read live. That list got updated a few times right up to the stream announcement, and if I had kept closer tabs I would have yelled about not seeing Slam Fighter and figured out if we should have had it either switched in for another game or made a thirteenth pick (which feels like the fair way to go at this point).

People were totally right in noticing that Slam Fighter II is a really cool game, wondering why it wasn't included in the community choice, and wanting to know the reasoning behind that. The top 2 picks out of blocks system we're using for community choice is intended as a simple baseline for judging convenience, and is purposefully flexible with a lot of additional judge discussion to try to avoid missing the top games. Even with that, we goofed here. Sorry, and thanks for asking about it civilly without too many cries of corruption!
(despite us all knowing this entire charade is staged by the reptilian Illuminati as sponsored by the vampire-men coalition, of course)

While I think Slam Fighter II deserved to be on the community choice list to a degree that required it being added after the announcement, there's definitely a lot of awesome games that we played that were super painful not to include. It's really tough, especially with how novel and absolutely crazy people get with their games and interactive experiences for this jam; judging these entries against each other and coming up with a winner is always going to include a dollop of subjective opinion. Again, if your game was not one of the community choice picks you are absolutely still eligible for the other categories and we will be looking at the full pool of entries in our discussions.

YOU GUYS. Between this and the bug that made it seem like our game wasn't submitted, are you trying to collect my tears for some kind of blood magic ritual for aforementioned Reptilian Illuminati? Cause if that's the case, you could have just asked. I really appreciate that we are given extra consideration after the fact when it would have been easy to say "eat poo poo, Team Dogpit! Hahahaha!" and rode off into the sunset in your vampire-men-sponsored limousines.

Last Visible Dog
Jul 30, 2015

Everdraed posted:

(Helpful and well-thought-out feedback response)

Alright, that makes a lot of sense! I think I get it. I see how some more transparency/immediate feedback could have gone a long way, especially in such an unusual concept for a game. And I guess there are a lot more concerns than I had thought of. The per-level grading breakdown sounds like it could have been a good idea. It could even be framed as your support team giving you a little extra advice. But even something so simple as a little more guidance as to what specifically captures the critics' interest could have helped.

...And it's a little late for this, but critics respond positively to either "the game looks fun", which is moving appropriately fast, jumping/wall-jumping, and being dangerously close to spikes, or "player does well", which is collecting loot, stomping enemies, and beating levels. The main non-obvious things that will hurt you is clipping through walls and doing overly-floaty jumps. Floating over the ground while running isn't such a big deal, as I found it hard to reliably stay grounded while moving with any real speed. And critics' interest will also gradually wane over time. As such, the best approach is kind of a quick-and-careless one, where you focus on a decent speed more than a careful precision. In retrospect, I could also have awarded precision, to allow for more variation in approaches. Ah well.

Anyway, I greatly appreciate the reply! It's certainly helped me see the game from another perspective. Thank you!

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Just catching up on the Gong Show, I'd just like to state that the code for Sandlot is not representative of my coding ability, I was in Get It Done mode for a solid month. Thing need a loving refactor.

I agonized for awhile on how transparent to make the system; opted to go for opaque since it seemed more thematic (the whole feline overlord idea), but I get the want for more explained. I want to drop the the rolling system entirely for a new way, and the replacement I'm leaning toward would lend itself to being more verbose.

Although I do feel better about not finishing the game loop until the last week, if it really is a lot of code for a month-long jam.

Polo-Rican
Jul 4, 2004

emptyquote my posts or die

dupersaurus posted:

Just catching up on the Gong Show,

How?? Are the videos hosted somewhere? The old ones aren't on Twitch and I don't think they're on Youtube yet.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Polo-Rican posted:

How?? Are the videos hosted somewhere? The old ones aren't on Twitch and I don't think they're on Youtube yet.

I had to use my work (Windows) computer to get it to show up on twitch. Didn't work on my macbook (at least on Firefox) or my phone.

Heisenberg1276
Apr 13, 2007

Polo-Rican posted:

How?? Are the videos hosted somewhere? The old ones aren't on Twitch and I don't think they're on Youtube yet.

Day 1
Day 2

Polo-Rican
Jul 4, 2004

emptyquote my posts or die
You guys see stuff in those videos besides a static image saying "HOLD TIGHT THE SHOW WILL START SOON?"

edit: oh god i tried it on my home PC and my work Mac with no success, but just got it to work in Safari. wtf???

Polo-Rican fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Aug 10, 2015

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Polo-Rican posted:

edit: oh god i tried it on my PC at home and my mac at work and it didn't work, but it DOES work with Safari. wtf???

I get the feeling that the twitch client kinda sucks

Heisenberg1276
Apr 13, 2007

Polo-Rican posted:

You guys see stuff in those videos besides a static image saying "HOLD TIGHT THE SHOW WILL START SOON?"

edit: oh god i tried it on my home PC and my work Mac with no success, but just got it to work in Safari. wtf???

Another option is to download the FLVs. Use something like KeepVid

Day 1
Day 2

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Shalinor
Jun 10, 2002

Can I buy you a rootbeer?
All y'all should probably go vote for your favs over here and also move chat over there, since the thread is a clone of this one.

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