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So my parents, who live in New Jersey, keep a kosher home. Between my grandmother and now my father being sick, we've had a number of aids in the house, both part-time, daytime, and overnight depending on need, sent by an agency because of the level of care they need. Most of them are immigrants from the Carribean or from Africa because only immigrants would be severely underpaid and do the lovely job of busing old people back and forth to the table and bathroom. (We would pay them more, but Medicare pays them, and the agency takes most of the money). The general rule is: if they're in our home, we have to provide food for them or allow them to bring their own food. Since our home is kosher, we tell each aid, "You can't bring food in here, but if you want something, tell us and we will stock it in the house so you can have it, and you can eat with us at all meals." They go to restaurants with us, they go on vacations with us, and my parents try to be as accommodating as possible. The current guy we have is a nursing student who moved here from Nigeria six years ago. Mom and Dad noticed that on a 10-hour shift he wouldn't eat a thing, so they asked him about it, and he said he had a custom to not take food from other people's homes. So they said, "Just tell us what you want, and we will buy it, and it will be yours, but it will be in the house so you can have it when you need to eat." But he wouldn't give them any suggestions. One day he did ask if he could bring a type of milk in, and Mom looked at the container (it had a kosher symbol) and said, "Sure" and it turned out to be the exact same type of almond milk as we already had in the fridge, so she offered to just buy that brand for him, and he said no, and stopped bringing milk. Eventually they broke him down and said, "You're here ten hours, you have to eat, how can we make this work?" And he admitted he only eats Nigerian food at home, and when he goes out it's only to a local Nigerian restaurant. So when he accompanied them to a health resort with a MASSIVE food menu that had like every possible thing for every diet, they expected him to find SOMETHING, but he couldn't make sense of the menu (he reads English fine, has been here for years, is a citizen) and it took him 20 minutes to order. So when they went into New York City for the night and took him with them, they had him pick a restaurant ahead of time, and it was way out of the way, and even then he still couldn't figure out what to order. It's like the guy's never seen a menu of standard American food choices before. Now Mom actually wishes she'd just let him do his thing (which is go hungry, apparently) because it's a massive hassle now that he knows they want him to eat when he's hungry, and he can just not make heads or tails of a menu, and eating out becomes an ordeal. Does this guy just have a personal problem with food, or is there something we're missing? (PS - If this helps, he is Christian. Pretty seriously, too, I think he might have been converted by somebody to a newer or more American form of Christianity. He's some form of Protestant) EDIT: Sorry, didn't make this clear, he is allowed to bring is own food if it's kept in the car or it's double-bagged in our house, he just can't use the silverware or sinks and stuff for it, kashrut is serious business. dj_clawson fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Aug 13, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 06:03
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dj_clawson posted:So my parents, who live in New Jersey, keep a kosher home. NewYorkJew.txt
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Aug 12, 2015 06:57
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Keldoclock posted:NewYorkJew.txt I don't know what this means.
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Aug 12, 2015 07:09
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Can he find another job through the agency? If so, then you should sever. He is starving himself 10h a day and that seem pretty miserable to me. Thank him for his work, give him a severance payment and get it over with. Next time make it very clear that you have special requirements, if necessary, go through a more expensive agency to find someone who is willing to deal with it. Here is my impression: He doesn't want to take any food handouts from you, you don't want him to bring his own food. Once he tried to bring the almond milk(probably the only kosher thing that he could find in a cheap super market), but you made a drama out of it by trying to buy it for him, so he's not gonna try again. Both sides seem pretty stubborn and unwilling to give in, so it's not going to work out. Don't try to force him to take your food handouts, like you are trying to get a kid to eat broccoli. You're adults, deal with it like adults.
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Aug 12, 2015 12:11
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Hmm it sounds like living with aids can be quite difficult at times. Good luck OP.
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Aug 12, 2015 14:54
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dj_clawson posted:I don't know what this means. It means that when someone says "you can't bring food into my home because of my religious beliefs" they are being fairly unreasonable. But that isn't the issue here. This isn't his "custom". This is him not wanting to deal with your family on any level other than what he has to. He would rather starve himself for 10 hours a day than deal with your parents, basically. He also probably doesn't want what they're offering because it comes off super condescending to someone who is working for you and stocking his own fridge. What your parents say is "I'm sorry, we have strict rules about where the food in our house comes from. But we can make a sandwich for you!". What he hears is, "Your filthy food isn't good enough to come into my house and it's a wonder that we let you in". If it stays in his lunch box and he's the only one eating it, it's perfectly reasonable to let the guy eat what he wants. Wipe down the table after he leaves or whatever to "clean" it up (I don't know what's involved in them cleaning that stuff up, whatever, you get the idea). Or, hell. Tell the guy the lunchbox has to sit on the porch in a cooler because of strict dietary measures, then let him take an hour break and go eat on the porch if they're that tense about it. I say this as a strict vegetarian pagan who just had a meat-eating has-to-pray-over-every-bite-she-takes kind of catholic in her house for a few weeks. If I can work out a compromise to be polite to my guests, so can your parents.
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Aug 12, 2015 15:56
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Starving yourself for 10 hours a day is a hugely difficult and demanding thing to do to your body, I just don't know how he copes with such a hellish existence, the only root cause I can think of is a burning hatred for your parents and their religion.
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Aug 12, 2015 16:29
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I agree with the poster that says you should terminate employment because he doesn't eat your parents' food.
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Aug 12, 2015 16:31
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Poolparty posted:Hmm it sounds like living with aids can be quite difficult at times. Good luck OP.
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Aug 12, 2015 16:31
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Op, what's stopping your family from tipping this guy really big in addition to his wages if they think he's so underpaid? A g under the table every couple of weeks would go a long way.
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Aug 12, 2015 16:34
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BigFactory posted:Op, what's stopping your family from tipping this guy really big in addition to his wages if they think he's so underpaid? A g under the table every couple of weeks would go a long way. Truth, yo. At the very least, if they are obligated to give him food, but the conditions under which they'd do so are untenable, they should just give him the cash value of a quality meal + snacks weekly or whatever. And maybe just don't try to take him to restaurants anymore? Just give him however much his meal might reasonably cost and let him do his own thing for a couple hours while you guys act exactly like my MIL's family in a restaurant.
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Aug 12, 2015 16:56
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I really wanna read the e/n thread from the other end of this story: "Goons, I'm a registered caretaker and my agency assigned me to this strange Caribbean voodoo family. The work is physically very demanding and I have to do 10h shifts. The problem is that I'm strictly forbidden from bringing food with me, unless it has been blessed by a chicken sacrifice. I don't give a poo poo about chicken sacrifices, whatever floats you boat, but there is literally no way for me to have a lunch or get some sugar into my body. I feel like poo poo all the time and there is no way to request a new assignment through the agency from my side. The family is really making my life miserable and without any good reason. Yeah, they offered me some raw chicken hearts to eat as compensation(lol, they are legally required to do that) but i turned it down since it would only make me vomit and I also have a tiny bit of human dignity left."
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Aug 12, 2015 17:42
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Being posted to a kosher home is an expectation that comes with the job of being an aid. You do have the right to say, "I wanna switch to someone else" but he doesn't want to. He actually wants to work MORE hours, and he's always asking us for them. He started out 2 days a week and now he's 6 days. Almost all of our aids have asked for more hours. It turns out that most of homes of old people they're sent to are full of lovely racist people (every aid we've had has been black) who either don't give them food at all or give them like, leftovers. For real. Being an aid sucks. Kashrut isn't all eating matzah ball soup and challah. My parent took him to a supermarket and said, "Pick out whatever you want, almost everything here is kosher, we will buy it and stock it in the house so it's always available" and he could not figure out the supermarket. It took him like an hour and he bought two things. Other aids haven't had this problem, and we've stocked the house with various food items we wouldn't normally have because of taste/health reasons. But the rule with kashrut is that if it enters our house it must have a kosher symbol, and asking aids to figure out the crazy number of symbols out there and seek out food that has them is actually unreasonable. As to why we don't tip him, first of all he is expensive. Medicare pays about half of it, we pay the other half, and dad's medical bills are crazy expensive. Having an aid is something you only do if you can afford it. Second, he can get fired for being tipped, because he's receiving money from outside the agency, and he's SUPER honest, so he won't take the money.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:00
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Magic food is pretty dumb in my opinion.
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Aug 12, 2015 19:06
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dj_clawson posted:Being posted to a kosher home is an expectation that comes with the job of being an aid. You do have the right to say, "I wanna switch to someone else" but he doesn't want to. He actually wants to work MORE hours, and he's always asking us for them. He started out 2 days a week and now he's 6 days. Almost all of our aids have asked for more hours. It turns out that most of homes of old people they're sent to are full of lovely racist people (every aid we've had has been black) who either don't give them food at all or give them like, leftovers. For real. Being an aid sucks. So you are the least lovely employer available. Congratulations on being the least lovely at something! dj_clawson posted:Kashrut isn't all eating matzah ball soup and challah. My parent took him to a supermarket and said, "Pick out whatever you want, almost everything here is kosher, we will buy it and stock it in the house so it's always available" and he could not figure out the supermarket. It took him like an hour and he bought two things. Other aids haven't had this problem, and we've stocked the house with various food items we wouldn't normally have because of taste/health reasons. But the rule with kashrut is that if it enters our house it must have a kosher symbol, and asking aids to figure out the crazy number of symbols out there and seek out food that has them is actually unreasonable. Also, ask him what he eats at home, google it, stock the ingredients. Don't loving fire him, if his job prospects are so bad he is probably better off starving himself and you ignoring the situation.
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Aug 12, 2015 20:20
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dj_clawson posted:Being posted to a kosher home is an expectation that comes with the job of being an aid.  E: People in a position to hire an aid do not understand plight of poor, can't understand why they want to work more hours if they don't like the job. News at 11. surc fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 21:06
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OK, let me review the situation: (1) Due to dietary restrictions, he cannot bring his own food into the house. (2) He will not eat any food that is in the house. (3) We took him to a supermarket to let him pick out food and he could not find anything. (4) We take him to restaurants and it takes him half an hour to pick out something from the menu. (5) We asked him if there's a specific restaurant that he would like to go to, we went, and he still had trouble finding something on the menu. (6) We asked if there was anything else we could do to make sure he had enough to eat, and he said "No." If him bringing home-cooked food from his home containing unkosher ingredients is the only possible solution, he is not the right aid for this job. I honestly just want to know if he has some kind of weird food custom that I couldn't find on google or he has an eating disorder.
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Aug 12, 2015 21:26
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surc posted:
I'm sure he will respond really well to, "Hey, you're poor, so we don't want you to work as many hours. We can't pay you any more than we do because we're not actually your employers, so just go home and get paid less."
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Aug 12, 2015 21:27
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dj_clawson posted:weird food custom makes you think
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Aug 12, 2015 21:29
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Could you honestly tell me you'd successfully navigate an Ethopian supermarket? A huge building full of weird, alien food you don't know or like? If someone's having a hard time finding things he wants to eat, the proper solution is not to put him in a building with 10,000 options and say "go nuts." He's unhappy and it's difficult for him to integrate when he's a youngish Christian and he spends 10 hours a day with old Jews. Everything is reminding him that he's not really at home, and he's clinging to the little bits of Ethiopia he can find. It is completely unreasonable for your parents to forbid their aid from bringing food to their house. His lunchbox cannot possibly let unkosher things ruin the other stuff in the fridge. Your parents are being mean. They have to let him bring his own food in.
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Aug 12, 2015 22:04
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dj_clawson posted:OK, let me review the situation: You still haven't answered why he can't just eat in his car. No idea what the legal situation is in NJ, but in most parts of the world employees have a legal right to breaks and their employers have absolutely no say in what people do during these breaks. A cooler for his car trunk seems like the best solution. e: Also, limiting asylum seeker to local supermarket products is one of the tactics that the government here uses to break these people and discourage other like their family and friends to come. It's effective as hell, people get depressed and angry really fast. Think about it for a minute. Think about why that is. GABA ghoul fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Aug 12, 2015 |
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Aug 12, 2015 22:49
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waitwhatno posted:You still haven't answered why he can't just eat in his car. No idea what the legal situation is in NJ, but in most parts of the world employees have a legal right to breaks and their employers have absolutely no say in what people do during these breaks. A cooler for his car trunk seems like the best solution. Actually he can, he doesn't want to.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:00
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Yeah, he's probably just a picky eater who's scared of unfamiliar food. Imagine a picky westerner who's working in Nigeria. How long is it going take them to eat some peppered gizzards? Taking him to a supermarket full of unfamiliar foodstuff and telling him to go wild isn't really helping. Is it really a problem if he brings in his own food, to eat separately? Why not consult your nearest rabbi, before you fire this guy for making you feel awkward?
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Aug 12, 2015 23:06
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Mr Enderby posted:Yeah, he's probably just a picky eater who's scared of unfamiliar food. Imagine a picky westerner who's working in Nigeria. How long is it going take them to eat some peppered gizzards? Taking him to a supermarket full of unfamiliar foodstuff and telling him to go wild isn't really helping. Is it really a problem if he brings in his own food, to eat separately? Why not consult your nearest rabbi, before you fire this guy for making you feel awkward? For the record we did say he could bring his own food if he either kept it in the car or kept it in a plastic bag in our fridge, but he has not done this.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:22
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He probably likes his own cuisine. Taking him to a restaurant and saying go nuts might not help if he's not a fan of western food. I'd say if they brought him to a Nigerian restaurant he'd eat just fine, but he's probably embarrassed to pick that himself. Also 10 hours isn't long to go without food. Could easily go a day on one meal of pounded yam and egusi.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:42
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dj_clawson posted:For the record we did say he could bring his own food if he either kept it in the car or kept it in a plastic bag in our fridge, but he has not done this. You didn't say this in the OP. He probably doesn't want to because he doesn't want to feel looked down upon. However, that is literally what I said was a reasonable compromise, so it's on him. If he wants to bring food he will. End of it.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:52
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This thread is the embodiment of #FirstWorldProblems and the Nigerian dude knows it. I'm sure if you explain that to your parents they'll understand though, and let the guy eat his own drat food where he pleases. Give it a try and let us know what happens.
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Aug 12, 2015 23:58
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dj_clawson posted:For the record we did say he could bring his own food if he either kept it in the car or kept it in a plastic bag in our fridge, but he has not done this. Lmao, that's the most important part of the story, why would you leave it out the OP? It's totally on him, let him starve. He may be a manchild used to eating nothing but Nigerian-brand hot pockets or maybe he is on a keto diet trying to get swole or something. It doesn't matter, it's out of your hands.
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Aug 13, 2015 00:25
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dj_clawson posted:For the record we did say he could bring his own food if he either kept it in the car or kept it in a plastic bag in our fridge, but he has not done this. That seems like extremely relevant information in the context of this thread. If he doesn't want bring in his own food to eat, then none of this is your family's problem.
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Aug 13, 2015 00:31
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Some of you obviously haven't thought out how "Let's have the darkie eat out back on the porch" would work out in real life...
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Aug 13, 2015 00:38
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I really want to throw bags of non kosher food all over that house.
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Aug 13, 2015 01:19
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INTJ Mastermind posted:Some of you obviously haven't thought out how "Let's have the darkie eat out back on the porch" would work out in real life...  Sometimes people enjoy their meals outside. I do so quite frequently at my own house.
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Aug 13, 2015 01:24
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Dining al fresco, being forced outside to eat even in rain or snow, same diff really. OP can you please clarify how a plastic bag hides treyf from God's sight? Also, you have two kitchens, right? That's probably really blowing his mind, two kitchens and he still can't heat up a lunch.
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Aug 13, 2015 02:18
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i like nice words
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The class divide in society now is loving amazing. This guy probably came to this country without a dime to his name, is working some lovely low pay job he likely hates trying to grab all the hours he can just to subsist but somehow he's the difficult one by conforming to the absurd "No unclean food from darkies in this house" rule laid down by the parents. I can only imagine the unholy terror that is dealing with those parents, it sounds like they've been through at least a couple of aides before this one, and for whatever reason this guy seems to be willing to put up with whatever that bullshit is plus the additional bullshit of wiping an elderly infirmed person's rear end for 10 hours a day for a lovely paycheck. I say your parents should hold on to this guy for dear life and if it means frying him up a Nigerian Porkchop or whatever for him every afternoon then they should do it.
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Aug 13, 2015 02:51
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Anne Whateley posted:Dining al fresco, being forced outside to eat even in rain or snow, same diff really. I suspect if I explained the long, complex nature of kashrut laws and why they are sacred to us, it wouldn't really aid in your understanding. The point is, we have food traditions, and we don't violate them, and when other people are in our house, they have to follow them. We would do the same for other people. Any situation where richer people hire poorer people to do work for them in a house is going to be fraught with some soci-economic-racial-religious tensions, and my parents are trying to navigate that as respectfully as possible, and usually the aids try to do the same, but sometimes it doesn't work out, but usually we understand why (one aid got really, really annoyed that she couldn't heat up spam in our microwave) but in this case we are confused. And he's Nigerian, not Ethiopian. If you ever get to a point in your life were you are infirm to the point of needing an aid, you will discover how lovely the system is, for both the aid and the patient. Yes, we are as respectful as we can be to people who come to work in our home, and we pay them as much as possible (again, bribing them is grounds for firing and they are paid through the company), but they also have to do the basic job they were hired to do. Most of the time this requires: (a) keeping track of the person who is sick (b) making sure they get help walking if they need help walking (c) making sure they are given their medicines on time (and the patient can refuse to take the medicine, but it must be presented to them) (d) if they can't be nice, at least not being mean to them (e) knowing that if there is a problem, they should call 911 (f) being able to drive them somewhere, if so requested I cannot tell you how many people cannot manage the first five things and will lie outright on their application about being able to drive. We've been through a lot of aids because they'll do things like fall asleep for hours on the job, forget to give the patient medicine, be mean or physically abusive to the patient, not report any medical happenings to the relevant people ("Oh right yeah I guess your grandmother did have a lot of chest pain last night and refused to take her Nitro, now that you mention it, why are you asking?"), or be surprised when you say, "Hey, I need you to drive her to her doctor appointment, here's the car keys, what do you mean you can't drive?" Something you don't want to walk in on is the hired aid giving your grandmother a punch in the shoulder so hard it leaves a bruise. Or your brain-cancer-riddled father being spoken to like he's five. On the other hand, the aids have it pretty crummy. They do pretty humiliating work, and some people give them a lot of abuse about it, and some of them have been through so many racist old grandmas they're too jaded to care because it's actually pretty hard to fire them. There's the old stereotype about old people complaining that their maids steal from them, and then there's walking in to see your grandmother breathing heavy and the aid responsible for maintaining her oxygen admitting she doesn't actually remember how the pump works. But why should she know how the pump works? Why should she have to learn that for some rich old white people? The whole situation is just really bad, which is why when we get someone who seems medically competent, we do anything to hold on to them. But violate our long-held religious beliefs because he refuses to bring his own food OR eat our food?
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Aug 13, 2015 03:13
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Way to be an objectively bad person OP.
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Aug 13, 2015 06:21
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