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Hey, AI! Help me find the problem with my neighbor's car! It's a 2004 FWD Hyundai Santa Fe that has 296,000 mostly freeway miles on it. Despite severe neglect, it will not die. Over its hard life, it's had oil changes, a battery, new tires and new air fresheners, but that's it. This car belongs to my super funny, super alcoholic, super chain-smoking, super hard working (he drives 110 miles 4x a week in this car to get to his job so his kids can finish school where they grew up), super not good at keeping up on car maintenance neighbor Mike. Mike's awesome. He's just not good at caring about cars and caring about money until one or the other jumps up to bite him in the rear end. This weekend, it turns out, both have sunk their teeth deep. Yesterday, Mike rolls in to town for the weekend, and we're chilling over homebrew in my garage when he says, hey, can you tell me if I should be concerned about something my car is doing. Specifically, can you maybe take it for a test drive. One other thing to know about Mike. When he's working down at his job for the week, he lives in his car. Sleeps in it, eats in it, smokes in it. Between working, driving, sleeping, and drinking, he does not spend much time cleaning it out. The end result is like Hoarders the Roadshow. I do not want to get in this car. "Uh, Mike, maybe you should take it to a mechanic". But he's broke. And he thinks I know enough to figure this out. And he knows I have the tools to do lots of things. So I agree after telling my wife to find the purell. So. I turn it over and I get: - Nice, prompt start up - All the dash lights come on, then all of them go off and stay off. - engine runs at cold idle about 1000 RPM, with light valve chatter. No surging, no hesitating, no other noise. - engine drops to about 800 RPM when it warms up, and again, pretty smooth. - It goes into R just fine, no big clunks, etc. "Mike, what am I looking for here besides a water bottle full of old butts?" "Just drive it around the block. It's making a noise". Fine. Brake off, roll back. THUNK THUMP, THUMP, THUMP. hmm.. that's not normal. Stop, into Drive, and we're off. THUMP...THUMP...THUMP So I drive it around the block, and then some. I get a rhythmic thumping noise that matches the speed of the car in a linear fashion: I go faster, it thumps faster. I go slower, it slows down. I stop, it stops. I try it in D, 1,2,3. All gears. I put it in R, does it backwards as well. It doesn't do it in idle. For a 300k car, it idles just fine. It's the champion of Idletown. But rolling? It's like there's a drummer trapped in the undercarriage. No unusual vibration, either, whether driving or idling. I hard a hard time isolating where the sound was coming from other than "front". By the way, I should note that I found all the gears by feel and rough stick position as the entire shift panel on the floor is covered in ash. And probably shed flakes of skin. gently caress. Now I've got the MRSA, I just know it. Right. I pull back in to his driveway, jump out, excuse myself for a moment to go into my garage, purell the gently caress out of everything on me that touched anything. 3 min later, we're under the car looking. Here's what I find. - tires are practically new (he replaced them 2k miles ago) and have no noticeable defects. - inner and outer CV boots are intact. No signs they've been leaking. No grease anywhere it shouldn't be. - tire rod ends are not loose, and don't look damaged. So my diagnosis, based on having just replaced the front axles on my 2000 Outback is worn CV joints. Like really worn. Like you probably want to have that fixed now, worn. Since I'm not a mechanic, I'm worried that my recent education into the function of half-shaft FWD axles and CV joints might be making me see everything as "IT'S THE AXLES!", and missing thinks I don't know much about like, say hub bearings. Or transmissions. I tell this to Mike. I tell him my own brief experience is that axles are cheap, and can sometimes be installed in a driveway. His eyes light up, and he's thanking me before I've even told him that maybe, just maybe, he might want to hock some poo poo and have an actual mechanic do this. Nope, he's broke. "So, should I be concerned?" "Do you like sudden losses of control at freeway speeds?" "No". "Then yes." And from there, more pilsner and gnashing of teeth as he spends the evening trying to figure out how to manage his lack of money, lack of credit, and mission-critical car that is maybe going to kill him. I told him that I'd research axle replacement, and if there is ANY funky Hyundai voodoo, or anything that makes me nervous, I'm going to recommend he man up, pawn some poo poo, and have a pro really nail down his problem and fix it. So, AI - before I go too far researching and God Help Me offering to spend a day swapping out his axles, answer me this: - Am I on the right track? Are there other things I should be considering as possible sources for this noise? - What other tests should we be doing to see if we can isolate the problem? I'd like to replicate the Drums in the Deep while I'm on the ground - turning tires by hand while it's lifted? - What kind of green weenie problems can I expect if I do take on the job? Magical Hyundai transmission stub seals? Irreplacable fasteners? The famous Fiat-style 'Inaccessible Bolt'? - Should I take the Randian Objectivist stance and tell my friend to fix his own axles? He will probably kill himself doing it, even if I loan him my floor jack and tools. Especially if I loan him my floor jack and tools.
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May 15, 2016 20:50
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 10:27 |
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Of course, the canonical test for a CV joint is to go in circles so you can figure out which side it's on. But I've only known them to click, not WHUMP. But maybe that happens when you let them get real bad, I don't know. Do you know anyone with one of those on-car wheel balance things so you can spin up a wheel from the outside? 
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May 15, 2016 21:16
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Not Nipsy Russell posted:- Should I take the Randian Objectivist stance and tell my friend to fix his own axles? He will probably kill himself doing it, even if I loan him my floor jack and tools. Especially if I loan him my floor jack and tools. I'm not too qualified to diagnose the car's issue but I can say that if your reasons for not giving him a hand are Randian objectivist in nature than that is an inferior code of ethics and you should help him out. Also did you check basic stupid stuff like if there's a wheel that's missing most of its lugs?
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May 15, 2016 21:19
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Record a video of you driving the car around the block. It might help diagnose the sound.
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May 15, 2016 21:31
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SCA Enthusiast posted:Also did you check basic stupid stuff like if there's a wheel that's missing most of its lugs? This, or overtightened lugs finally snapped the studs. Most recent thing that happened with this car is that it had tires replaced, so I'm focusing on that. Also your description sounds like when the wife's old jeep got a rock inside a tire somehow. Was the scariest noise. Also it's something you can check with basic tools and stands: take the tires off and shake them, then give the studs a tap to see if they fall off.
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May 15, 2016 22:10
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First thing I think is "brakes."
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May 15, 2016 22:17
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EVERYWHERE 
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I like where everyone is going with this (lugs, loose, tight, etc). How lovely are the tires? Or ask him if he's hit any huge potholes recently. It could be a tire bubble that hasn't shown up externally yet. Last fall I hit a big one and the day before a big fuckoff of a bubble appear on the outside sidewall I was getting vibration and some noise (though not a thumping per se, not far off from it).
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May 15, 2016 22:21
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meatpimp posted:First thing I think is "brakes." Yeah you should definitely look at the hub region first. So much easy obvious stuff.
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May 15, 2016 23:05
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Can you jack up the car and spin each wheel by hand to see if you can reproduce the sound? If you can, then you could try again with the wheel off, with the brake rotor off, etc, to eliminate those items. Does this sound appear when coasting in N? If not, then this could be something inside the transmission (unlikely).
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May 16, 2016 00:41
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SCA Enthusiast posted:I'm not too qualified to diagnose the car's issue but I can say that if your reasons for not giving him a hand are Randian objectivist in nature than that is an inferior code of ethics and you should help him out. I was kidding about Rand stuff - I'd never do that. I'm a helper. OK - so it turns out one of his lugs on the right front wheel is missing. Why? The super discount tire store he went to used an impact wrench to tighten the lug nuts, breaking one lug off, and making the lug nuts nice and round. So, if any solution involves removing the right front wheel (hint: they all do), he's going to have to address that first. LS told him they could get the wheel off, but it would cost $100. He did take it to Les Schwab today, apparently, they did a test drive, and put it in the air. They told him it's not the tires, and they were stumped. mariooncrack posted:Record a video of you driving the car around the block. It might help diagnose the sound. Against all common sense, he's already taken off for his biweekly 110 mile trip. I'll see him in a week and we'll get some video if it's still running. TheNothingNew posted:This, or overtightened lugs finally snapped the studs. Most recent thing that happened with this car is that it had tires replaced, so I'm focusing on that. Interesting. Yeah, we're both fans of trying the cheap/accessible thing first. We'll give this a try, however, see above. He's going to have to have someone help him get the right front wheel off. meatpimp posted:First thing I think is "brakes." This is also interesting - I got no sensation from the brakes that was out of the ordinary when I took it for a spin. No pulsing, vibrating, etc. What are you thinking it might be in relation to brakes? ShittyPostmakerPro posted:Can you jack up the car and spin each wheel by hand to see if you can reproduce the sound? If you can, then you could try again with the wheel off, with the brake rotor off, etc, to eliminate those items. Thanks, everyone for the thoughts so far. I think the plan will be to have someone fix the right front wheel situation first, and check that all his wheels are properly torqued, and make sure the tires are good. THe place he bought them from is one of those family operations that sells batteries for five bucks and has ACRES OF TIRES! that are all new old stock, and definitely expired. He can probably do that reasonably cheaply. If it's not that, we'll have them check brakes. Also - if it's a wheel bearing or axle issue, spinning by hand in Neutral should replicate it (thanks ShittyPostmakerPro). Cool part is, this is all stuff he can do. One step at a time. Thanks!
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May 16, 2016 00:55
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Not Nipsy Russell posted:This is also interesting - I got no sensation from the brakes that was out of the ordinary when I took it for a spin. No pulsing, vibrating, etc. What are you thinking it might be in relation to brakes? Any number of things. Could be a caliper stuck or dragging, worn rotors, destroyed pads, hub bearings (tangential to brakes, but similar). Like ShittyPostmakerPro said, lift up each corner and rotate it. It'll probably present the problem to you fairly quickly.
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May 16, 2016 01:01
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Not Nipsy Russell posted:I was kidding about Rand stuff - I'd never do that. I'm a helper. I'd be pretty pissed off, and demanding the place that hosed it up fix it for free immediately. Maybe others are cross-threaded for the same reasons. Make a bunch of noise about how it's a safety concern and they're liable because they couldn't take 30 seconds to go get a torque wrench, and apply pressure until they fix it. Not Nipsy Russell posted:This is also interesting - I got no sensation from the brakes that was out of the ordinary when I took it for a spin. No pulsing, vibrating, etc. What are you thinking it might be in relation to brakes? Could be something like a rock stuck in the disc or behind the backing plate or something, as well as the stuff meatpimp mentioned. You can rule this stuff out pretty easily by just taking it apart and looking at it. The ham-handed tire shop has me worried they hosed something up, though. Hopefully your friend returns from his trip in one piece!
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May 16, 2016 01:08
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UPDATE! And Conclusion. It was the Right Front Wheel. He still drove it all 110 miles, with the sound getting worse. Took it to a different discount tire shop, and the guy says "Well, I'm stumped. Maybe let's try rotating your tires. It looks like the front ones are JESUS CHRIST, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!" Michael left with one missing stud on his right front wheel. He arrived with two remaining lug nuts. That's all. He's one lucky man. $150 later, new studs pressed in, and the sound is completely gone, it drives fine. I told him to take that bill back to the original tire shop and get them to pay him back, which he probably won't do. Lessons learned: - If you see a mechanic at your shop doing something wrong, like torquing down lug nuts with an impact wrench, you certainly should say something. - Check your goddamned wheels once in a while. Like, even if there's no other reason to mess with them, jack your car up and check them out. On the ground, his wheel felt solid. Pretty sure if we'd jacked it up, the free-hanging wheel would have been noticeably loose. - Just because you know how to do something moderately difficult, don't overlook solutions that are right in front of you. Yes, a thunking/clicking sound could be CV problems. But what say we fix the gimpy wheel first? Short thread, uneventful, and kinda ho hum. But thanks, AI for the entertainment and suggestions. I'm sure Michael, his Hyundai and my beer will be back.
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May 22, 2016 00:40
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I would like to say that I'm glad it all worked out despite the decision to drive it like that and also do I win a prize for having called it?
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May 25, 2016 05:55
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Not Nipsy Russell posted:UPDATE! And Conclusion. Absolutely make him go take that bill back to the other shop, with pictures if he can get them. Remind him when he doesn't want to that he was one more lug breaking from a crash that would have at least totaled his sole transportation and likely hurt or killed him given all the poo poo stacked in his car that would turn to projectiles/kindling. This is their fuckup to fix, and if it was that bad they should be happy as gently caress that all he's asking is for them to cover what they broke.
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May 25, 2016 07:09
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 10:27 |
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Yeah this is where he should be making angry noises and demanding full refund or he hires a lawyer and sues them for putting his life in danger. A wheel falling off is not something to trifle with and their idiotic chimpanzee with an impact gun shouldn't be working on safety critical anything.
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May 25, 2016 19:26
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