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Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

Absurdly swole minors is the worst part of vanilla and all the 'historical' mods

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Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Enjoy posted:

Mexico probably should not be able to core half of America :negative:

Well they should at least get California, Texas and a bunch of desert states as cores. Wasn’t too long ago that territory was controlled by them. I’m not really sure what cored territory is supposed to represent though, because you’re always going to have resistance and other problems to root out immediately after shooting the old guys in charge, and in the game core states just seamlessly transfer total control on day 1.

Mandoric
Mar 15, 2003
It's just a mess, presumably from reusing "coring" support in the engine in a game where the institution-building of coring is supposed to "take too long" (which itself is a bit incoherent, as a game that picks up 18 years and two months after Red October and is supposed to last up to 20 years, or Alsace last traded hands 17 years before yet is securely French until events kick in.)

As shorthand for "rivals mutually agree they are in a civil war, and all have cores on each others' territory" it's honestly pretty okay; the occupation system's never been that great itself and duels heavily in particular with stability, which the process of said civil wars tends to ding.
As shorthand for decolonization movements that don't actually exist on the map but could be liberated as part of a peace conference, it's resoundingly eh with a predestinationalist faith that every national liberation front that succeeded is a Real Nation and nothing smaller or bigger need apply--especially absurd in the footwork that makes the Raj a flavor of the India tag but Pakistan a localized separatist claim on '36/1/1, or assigns various territory lost by one or another SSR in the Treaty of Riga as legitimately claimed by a government in exile but not by the USSR itself (this, at least, mostly pending focuses.)
As shorthand for "well in EU4 these would be cores," it suuuuuuucks so much rear end (especially because Alsace and Austria, the reasonable examples, aren't included in the map state at game start) and it's just there to let them make althist trees that turn majors into greats and minors into majors without having to actually put together a new system.

"Reconquering cores is free" is something that has theoretical value, but the HoI4 system doesn't really support it working well, you're not going to trade a border province back and forth five times since you will fight at most three serious wars and each of them will be total. (Also, because of the totalizing nature of the war represented, you'd kind of expect that after the purges and war crimes trials a province that changed hands back and forth would have no one above dog catcher left after a few cycles.)

There's probably fertile ground for a better look at occupations and legitimacy that controls for "what are politics in the new master compared to the old one and the last time the conquered state had its own, red/brown and blue/grey especially hate each other" and "is this a direct takeover or having passed through a third party", but the first one really needs pop politics rather than the mostly parliamentary simulation the game has to begin with and probably a consideration of what are ideological versus national states, and the latter should surely have the occupation malus tick back up once the dust settles a bit as the French and Poles and Italians and eventually Germans start to wonder, okay, we're occupied by a particular ideology who isn't going to let us out of their treaty-system but when do we at least get to do what that ideology considers self-government.

E: There is, to be fair, exactly one consideration of what is an ideological rather than national state--sadly it's a bespoke mechanic for the Spanarchists rather than the various harebrained but at least historically contemplated ideas of "The Philippines and maybe the Canadian provinces are states"/"Poland and maybe East Germany are SSRs"/"the colonies are federalized dominions"/"oh poo poo we've got the population and industrial output of Italy and we're staring down the two industrial superpowers, throw the bleeding hearts who actually believe the pan-Asianism line a bone and give Taiwan a rep in the Diet so the draft law applies to them."

Mandoric fucked around with this message at 06:01 on Apr 7, 2024

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010
I tried to be consistent with cores as a "a significant portion of the people in this region agree that they belong to this country" kind of thing, but interpretations vary.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
The silliest core thing I've seen is when Brazil just instantly cores the entirety of South America plus like Cuba and most central American states (communist route). It's FUN imo and I like it but it's also wacky lol. I think it puts them on par with like the USSR and USA at that point ofc much less developed. Just in terms of manpower and building slots.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Mandoric posted:

It's just a mess, presumably from reusing "coring" support in the engine
I'd argue this is the root of many HoI IV problems.

Ionicpsycho
Dec 25, 2006
The Shortbus Avenger.
Alright, playing as Brazil and going with a slow, deliberate strategy until I can conquer the world. Decided to see how many Mountaineers I can get to help burn through South America and I'm in a weird spot now. A little over 60% of my army is Mountaineer and I'm NOWHERE near the special forces cap. Hell, I'm training 5 divisions of 8/0 for a strategic reserve and 12 divisions of 8/3 Mountaineers at the same time, and my special forces cap is still growing faster than it's filling.

What's this about? How can I have an army that is overwhelmingly Special Forces, that's not even special any more. It's starting to feel like a VFW.

Lord Packinham
Dec 30, 2006
:<
I’m surprised that Trial of Allegiance is getting hammered so hard in steam reviews but I think they really need to refresh the actual WW2 fighting country’s focus trees so they all aren’t so crippled by maluses considering how easy it is to build SA into a superpower so fast.

TheMcD
May 4, 2013

Monaca / Subject N 2024
---------
Despair will never let you down.
Malice will never disappoint you.

Lord Packinham posted:

I’m surprised that Trial of Allegiance is getting hammered so hard in steam reviews but I think they really need to refresh the actual WW2 fighting country’s focus trees so they all aren’t so crippled by maluses considering how easy it is to build SA into a superpower so fast.

Paradox redefining the price of a "country pack" that only brings focus trees and no real new mechanics for the general game from 10€ to 15€ going from BftB to ToA didn't really help the situation.

Vivian Darkbloom
Jul 14, 2004


Lord Packinham posted:

I’m surprised that Trial of Allegiance is getting hammered so hard in steam reviews but I think they really need to refresh the actual WW2 fighting country’s focus trees so they all aren’t so crippled by maluses considering how easy it is to build SA into a superpower so fast.

Since several of the expansions are now free (and integrated into the game) I think it's likely we'll see some badly needed reworks of Japan, Germany, and the UK. China and the awful minor focus trees in DoD could use a lot of attention too but the devs might not have the resources given that it doesn't really make any money.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe

Lord Packinham posted:

I’m surprised that Trial of Allegiance is getting hammered so hard in steam reviews but I think they really need to refresh the actual WW2 fighting country’s focus trees so they all aren’t so crippled by maluses considering how easy it is to build SA into a superpower so fast.

Ya I like the dlc bc the focus trees are crazy and I really hope they make similar crazy trees in the future especially for major countries who need imo a rework (like all of them I guess lol) imagine if China had a cool focus tree instead of some things that make you democratic and some various war goals on countries you may already own.

BrotherJayne
Nov 28, 2019

I mean, maybe it's time for HoIV

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009





Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Since several of the expansions are now free (and integrated into the game) I think it's likely we'll see some badly needed reworks of Japan, Germany, and the UK. China and the awful minor focus trees in DoD could use a lot of attention too but the devs might not have the resources given that it doesn't really make any money.

With the exception of Poland (freelc anyway) I don't think they've done dlc that overrides previous dlc for any country. Hmm, come to think of it that means the expanded base game means they've kind of freed themselves up to redo everywhere before Man the Guns. East Asia, the Commonwealth, and chunks of Europe are back on the menu.

bone emulator
Nov 3, 2005

Wrrroavr

Finally, New Zealand will get its due!

I expect the same silly power creep as Chile, make every pacfic state coreable or something

ItohRespectArmy
Sep 11, 2019

Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

BrotherJayne posted:

I mean, maybe it's time for HoIV

sadly if we go to HoIV then we'll have to use the new paradox multiplayer where they lost the resync button, somehow.

Lord Packinham
Dec 30, 2006
:<
I don’t know if I could enjoy how barebones HoIV would be by modern paradox, look at Victoria 3.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
Yeah it's a real monkey's paw wish. But we can't have hoi4 forever.

Captain Melo
Mar 28, 2014

SHISHKABOB posted:

Yeah it's a real monkey's paw wish. But we can't have hoi4 forever.

I mean, we COULD

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice
I'd like Hoi5 to clear away the bloat and let them crack their knuckles at another attempt, I feel like they got pretty close to a good WW2 game but I think it can be improved.

Like it'd be nice for them to rethink the division designer, so it isn't something that can be mathematically solved or easier for players to do something and react to it.

In particular I'd like for the Clicks Per Minute to be far less of a factor in the game. I'd like it if it was feasible and not-frustrating for the player way of just removing the ability to do micro with troops. Let them organize fronts in a maybe more detailed way, but more of the focus I think should be on either the grand strategy level or on operational management; the combination of strategic management AND micro never scaled well.

e: Like maybe Navies could use a little MORE micro to compensate, the Big Bucket Sea Zones are pretty unsatisfying, and you don't quite have something that's like the Hunt for the Bismark, although in more competitive MP tracking down and trying to alpha strike the enemy fleet gets kinda close but there's a lot of the strategical naval war where the UI could be redesigned and made more in depth.

I also think to an extent that the ship/airplane/tank designers are mistakes and comes down to looking up guides for meta builds.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Apr 20, 2024

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

Captain Melo posted:

I mean, we COULD

Hey, I've been recently playing Empire at War, which is 18 years old and has a vibrant modding community keeping it alive and updated. So vibrant that the mods have been driving sales and Petroglyph patched it and added in 64-bit support just before Christmas, making it easier to make more ambitious mods.

We will see with EU5, but I'm not 100% convinced current Paradox is capable of releasing new games. It might be lostech at this point.

SHISHKABOB
Nov 30, 2012

Fun Shoe
I discovered that I lost my touch with this game and also you shouldn't wait until 1943 to attack the USSR as Germany.

Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go
Well duh, you have to wait until 1950!

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A jargogle
Feb 22, 2011
Playing multiplayer non-historical.


During which, AI Denmark managed, all at the same time, to:

- Be fascist.
- Be at war with Germany
- Have majority support be non-aligned, secondary democratic.
- Join Comintern.

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