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Torrannor posted:I would bet money that Hillary won't be the Democratic nominee in 2020. Hillary Clinton will never run for another office and will be out of the public light for a bit for sure. I can't imagine the feeling she went through when the weight of all of those she failed came down on her shoulders. There's a reason that she couldn't come out to face everyone. She was probably in tears.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:57
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Vasudus posted:You won't see HRC in politics ever again. Which I'm glad for, but not at the cost of big red taking all three branches. oh yeah definitely this was a bit of a high cost to kill off the Clinton dynasty.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:06
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Proud Christian Mom posted:oh yeah definitely this was a bit of a high cost to kill off the Clinton dynasty. Let's never forget one thing, though. Hillary was the one who forced all of us to pay that price. Never again. Never never never.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:13
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I still don't think Sanders would have fared any better. What he would have won in some white people he would have lost in galvanizing normal Republicans against him. Biden would have had a much broader appeal to center-right working class Catholics in the midwest. If he had run, the dems would have won handily.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:17
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If you didn't vote for Hillary you are racist hur hur hur
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Nov 10, 2016 17:19
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psydude posted:I still don't think Sanders would have fared any better. What he would have won in some white people he would have lost in galvanizing normal Republicans against him. Biden would have had a much broader appeal to center-right working class Catholics in the midwest. If he had run, the dems would have won handily. Biden was my ideal candidate but unfortunately he was never even a candidate 
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Nov 10, 2016 17:21
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Two dynasties died, not just one. Until some smaller bush or Chelsea finds their way. Do we have any more kennedys that could come out of the wood works?
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Nov 10, 2016 17:23
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Third World Reggin posted:Two dynasties died, not just one. George P. is a mini-trump with messaging.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:24
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Third World Reggin posted:Two dynasties died, not just one. please don't remind me of John John he flew too high
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Nov 10, 2016 17:24
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All the correct criticisms Obama made of Hillary in 2008 were still true in 2016 with a SecState lovely choice cherry on top but nope. Its her turn! Most experienced candidate ever! This is a failure of the DNC to ever consider post-2008 that there would be someone succeeding Obama other than Hillary. If very substantial portions of your own voter base don't like a candidate, it is going to be very difficult to get anyone else to like them, or as we saw, vote for them.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:25
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Third World Reggin posted:
Joe is currently a representative in Massachusetts, Edward Jr is in the Connecticut state senate. Neither of them is really in a position to do anything at the moment, though Joe is considered a "rising star" in Dem circles. He's young and will need a couple more election cycles before he made a run at anything.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:26
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A Kennedy is probably disconnected far enough from the heydays to not get turbofucked by establishment hate. People like George P Bush are going to have a hard time shaking it off, even if they are kissing the rings. The Bush family is loving reviled in the GOP right now.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:31
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Mr. Nice! posted:Hillary Clinton will never run for another office and will be out of the public light for a bit for sure. I can't imagine the feeling she went through when the weight of all of those she failed came down on her shoulders. There's a reason that she couldn't come out to face everyone. She was probably in tears. Things like this is why she wouldn't have been a good President.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:32
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Third World Reggin posted:Two dynasties died, not just one.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:34
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Proud Christian Mom posted:A Kennedy is probably disconnected far enough from the heydays to not get turbofucked by establishment hate. People like George P Bush are going to have a hard time shaking it off, even if they are kissing the rings. The Bush family is loving reviled in the GOP right now. Joe will likely run for Warren's seat when she's ready to go.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:35
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psydude posted:I still don't think Sanders would have fared any better. What he would have won in some white people he would have lost in galvanizing normal Republicans against him. Biden would have had a much broader appeal to center-right working class Catholics in the midwest. If he had run, the dems would have won handily. I thought this pre election, but now that it turns out trump got as much republican support as any other R pres candidate got despite Hillary's centrism. The most shocking thing about the results is how much trump polled like a conventional republican on election day. So, gently caress it. Going left can get new voters, going center gets you zero republican voters. Left it is. The biggest problem I had with Bernie is he seemed unwilling to compromise, but in retrospect who cares. The concept of republicans compromising with any democratic president is fantasy anyway.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:39
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Proud Christian Mom posted:All the correct criticisms Obama made of Hillary in 2008 were still true in 2016 with a SecState lovely choice cherry on top but nope. Its her turn! Most experienced candidate ever! As far back as I can remember and research, feelings have beaten issues. Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Kennedy vs Nixon, LBJ vs Goldwater, Nixon vs McGovern, Carter vs Ford, Reagan vs Carter, Clinton vs Bush, Bush vs Cheney, Obama vs McCain, Obama vs Romney, Trump vs Clinton. Probably further back than that, honestly. The only race I can't frame in this is Bush Sr vs Dukakis, which is basically "I'm going to continue Reagan's legacy, you all liked Reagan" vs "I'm in a tank". Every single time, the winning candidate had a better grasp of appealing to the emotion of the electorate regardless of their actual policies or ability to achieve them. Bernie got people energized by offering free college and socialism. He didn't explain how, he just said he'd do it. Clinton couldn't do that because she was focused on the minutiae of how that would get accomplished, rather than just selling Big Rock Candy Mountain to the undecided/uninformed and assuming victory in the wake of the biggest election coverage shitshow ever. Trump coasted to victory in the primaries because he appealed straight to the base and his opponents couldn't attack him on policy nor make themselves not look like weak assholes in the face of a bully. Clinton coasted on her 'inevitability' in the general and hoped that just running against Trump and making him look like a sexist racist crook would work. It didn't, because Hillary wasn't running on anything beyond "I'm not Trump, look at these policies, I'm not a robot". The intricate details of your policies don't matter because only the tiny fraction of people who follow politics like their fantasy football team are going to remember that you promised a chicken in every pot and to legalize the container. Everyone else is going to look at their current situation and take a quick look at CNN/Fox News to see if there's a current crisis and then go vote for whoever makes them feel like their situation is going to get better. Hope in something will beat the fear of something which beats the poo poo out of "Go read this Best Friends posted:I thought this pre election, but now that it turns out trump got as much republican support as any other R pres candidate got despite Hillary's centrism. The most shocking thing about the results is how much trump polled like a conventional republican on election day. So, gently caress it. Going left can get new voters, going center gets you zero republican voters. Left it is. It's not about moving left or right, it's about actually inspiring something in your voters. Trump inspired people, for good or for bad. Clinton didn't.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:41
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Quick and lovely
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Nov 10, 2016 17:44
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redneck nazgul posted:As far back as I can remember and research, feelings have beaten issues. This is a good post.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:49
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Third World Reggin posted:Quick and lovely I need this in an "airbrushed on van" version.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:50
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redneck nazgul posted:As far back as I can remember and research, feelings have beaten issues. Bernie had detailed plans for all his proposals, pretty much in big red letters all over his website.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:57
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Since the Toxx hammer is a-closin' in, I'll end with this. If I could give a Powerpoint class to the Democratic Autopsy Commission right now, it'd go like this: 1. Play a speech by Obama. One of the ones where he gets fired up and gets into that Southern preaching cadence. 2. Put up a big slide in 72 point white font on a black background that says "gently caress YOUR POLICIES" while the speakers go into full feedback mode. 3. Helpfully point out to them that what they just felt during both of the previous slides was real. They just had feelings about the person standing up and talking to them. This is normal and good. 4. Point at the door and tell them to go grab a friend who doesn't care about politics. They and their buddy are going to go turn over every rock in every Congressional district in America until they find someone who makes both of them feel good feelings when they talk about things. 5. When they find these people who speak good feeling words, they're going to make sure they can wear a suit, not piss themselves on stage, and weren't recorded on a tour bus/speaking to investment bankers saying racial slurs or talking about grabbing anyone's genitals. 6. Once they've finally found these seemingly grown-up adults without baggage, these adults are going to run in every district in America and talk about their "You can have guns, weed, and healthcare, and also we're going to get you jobs and cut your taxes so you can afford all of them at once" platform in those good feeling words. Who the gently caress cares how you're going to do it or if it's true, it sounds good. edit: lightpole posted:Bernie had detailed plans for all his proposals, pretty much in big red letters all over his website. You're trying to make the American people read. That's not what we need here.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:58
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The "Bernie has no plans for how to do any of this" poo poo has been repeated all over the place including here when a quick search put them at the top of the page. It appears that you are one of "those people" you are talking about.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:03
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I'd rather not have an octogenarian socialist running the government, but if it's that or an septuagenarian fascist then I'm feeling the Bern.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:05
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I have my doubts about Bernie but I would have fallen in line and voted for him.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:32
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Whip Slagcheek posted:I'd rather not have an octogenarian socialist running the government, but if it's that or an septuagenarian fascist then I'm feeling the Bern. Casimir Radon posted:I have my doubts about Bernie but I would have fallen in line and voted for him.  I voted for Hillary both times because I thought she could actually pull it off and that Bernie's policies, while admirable, weren't going to happen in this reality without a massive Democratic wave that retook Congress in an unassailable position. I realize now in hindsight that feelings > policy, Trump won, and now the GOP opposition party of "No!" has to own everything they break while they control all three branches. I'm upset, I'm a bit worried, but I'm not pissed. It's time to lick wounds, figure out how to unfuck the Democrats so our government might actually work, and as always, pray for the warm embrace of nuclear hellfire.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:49
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I would have voted for...Biden in a case of Bernie.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:51
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I would have voted for Biden in 2008 but he dropped before my state had their primary. I would have voted for him in 2016 but he didn't run. I'm a Biden man.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:51
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Okay we don't need two threads discussing the same thing. Time to fold back into the CE thread.
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Nov 10, 2016 18:53
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