Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
SpaceGoku
Jul 19, 2011

Baloogan posted:

because modern society has broken the community of humanity; we're all disconnected and alienated constantly set in competition against one another.

least thats my take

[nodding kermit gif]

but what to do

I guess make plans to capitalize on the GOP running the country into the ground

maybe just fixing the problems after they happen will be enough to give legitimacy to the argument that seeing the world as a series of conquests and personal wars is diminishing to us

maybe that's a long shot, but if there aren't even any scraps to fight over then who knows, maybe people will realize they should be fighting over more than scraps

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
lol theres gonna be hella instability hella war hella strife and horrible things world wide and here and we're gonna look back on 2016 with fondness and envy the dead

deadgoon
Dec 4, 2014

by FactsAreUseless
finally, a realistic plan of action from the left

Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!

Baloogan posted:

lol theres gonna be hella instability hella war hella strife and horrible things world wide and here and we're gonna look back on 2016 with fondness and envy the dead

:cheers:

blood greases the cogs that keeps the wheels turning

so if you have to go all guillotine the rich, then theres another system in place where blood will still have to be the cogs that keeps the wheels turning inshallah

only death is certain

Addamere
Jan 3, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

ScrubLeague posted:

Really we just need to seize the means of production for the benefit of the labour class.

Really we just need to be excellent to each other.

Bolton Hairy-Bore
Jul 31, 2013

Baloogan posted:

youre memes and general ideas lead yall lefties to think there is a groundswell of untapped support, but their isn't at all; thats why u gotta start at the bottom, start locally and build that. like yall ain't gonna see a socalist revolution without more low level support and u need that low level support to acheve youre lofty goals!

agreed. there's no hope in establishing communism from above, practically. and there's fundamental issues with that theory and the grim history is proof.

communism from the bottom up! local communes that are provide us with a good life outside capitalism and break through our social alienation. and are capable of building the power to take on all the systems of power over others

Bolton Hairy-Bore
Jul 31, 2013

reignonyourparade posted:

Social democracy is pretty conclusively a failure. Leave capitalism intact and it just waits a decade and then gets all restrictions placed upon it legislated away and all the social services privatized.

yepp, this was like the prime reason for the break between revolutionaries and reformists in 19th century socialism

Bolton Hairy-Bore
Jul 31, 2013

Zombiepop posted:

I dont really agree, the scandinavian countries are doing fine, But yeah a lot of it is becoming worse as time goes.

exception to prove the rule. the scandinavian countries social democracies had unique opportunities to go a little further and last a little longer than other countries, but they will suffer the fates of neoliberalism and now neoliberal fascism soon enough.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

reignonyourparade posted:

Social democracy is pretty conclusively a failure. Leave capitalism intact and it just waits a decade and then gets all restrictions placed upon it legislated away and all the social services privatized.

Actually existing socialist societies ended up creating a privileged caste of bureaucrats who then, within a generation or two, abandoned any pretense of socialism and used their power to transform their countries into hyper-capitalist gangster economies.

It's not like one particular brand of socialism stands out as being particularly successful right now. Both reformist and revolutionary socialism, as they were conceived in the 19th and 20th centuries, would seem to have failed. And say what you will about the reformists but at least in some parts of the first world we still have a limited social safety net to fall back on thanks to previous generations of reformism.

trinity3infinity
Jul 25, 2007
I'm pretty into Bookchin right now and I'm tending to agree with him that the environment is what is going to hopefully get people together to unite against defeating capitalism. Class consciousness doesn't seem to work, at least in the US. Workers seem to keep voting against their best interests and climate change is a time bomb. Unfortunately I think it'll take a few environmental catastrophes and major destabilization of the state and economy to get folks to wake up. I'm follow what's happening in Rojava with some hope, but they haven't succeed yet. In the meantime, I'd like to see local socialist organization to help make some people's lives less lovely.

Shageletic
Jul 25, 2007

What everyone should be looking at is California right now. That's where things need to start, considering Dems have power in all the levers of power there.

This is the time to show that the Dems actually stand for something, rather than technocracy.

Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007


Nietzschean posted:

Really we just need to be excellent to each other.

Sorry, we're in the timeline where Ted got sent to military school

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Shageletic posted:

This is the time to show that the Dems actually stand for something, rather than technocracy.

Technocracy implies a much stronger dedication to outcomes and competence than I think can be fairly attributed to Dems.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

GlyphGryph posted:

Technocracy implies a much stronger dedication to outcomes and competence than I think can be fairly attributed to Dems.

The Democrats are into technocracy in the same way that the medieval Catholic Church was into Christianity.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012

Helsing posted:

Actually existing socialist societies ended up creating a privileged caste of bureaucrats who then, within a generation or two, abandoned any pretense of socialism and used their power to transform their countries into hyper-capitalist gangster economies.

It's not like one particular brand of socialism stands out as being particularly successful right now. Both reformist and revolutionary socialism, as they were conceived in the 19th and 20th centuries, would seem to have failed. And say what you will about the reformists but at least in some parts of the first world we still have a limited social safety net to fall back on thanks to previous generations of reformism.

Social democracy is not democratic/reformist socialism. Social democracy does not involve a desire to do away with capitalism, it very deliberately leaves it in place with shackles that somewhat less deliberately don't last long. Reformist socialism has only failed in its thought that it could ally with social democracy. It hasn't failed in the execution stage because it never got to the execution stage.

Helsing
Aug 23, 2003

DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU :love::love::love: JOE BIDEN

reignonyourparade posted:

Social democracy is not democratic/reformist socialism. Social democracy does not involve a desire to do away with capitalism, it very deliberately leaves it in place with shackles that somewhat less deliberately don't last long. Reformist socialism has only failed in its thought that it could ally with social democracy. It hasn't failed in the execution stage because it never got to the execution stage.

Reformist socialism has failed to gain power, which is how it ends up as a single fraction of a larger social democratic movement in most countries. Given the high ambitions that the socialist movement was setting itself in the 19th century I don't think it's unfair to call this a failure.

rudatron
May 31, 2011

by Fluffdaddy
i've never seen a use of 'technocracy' that wasn't just straight up elitism/justification for disenfranchisement

"we're running the government based on a system of merit" *runs the government with the same 30 graduate friends from the same 3 exclusive private schools*

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

stephenfry
Nov 3, 2009

I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
I AM AN IDIOT.
step 1: entire fossil fuel industry to gulag, where they will be offered green infrastructure and conservation science re-education

  • Locked thread