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Hi guys, I've never posted here but I have something that I think a lot of people will be interested in. A few years ago, I think maybe 2012, John Campbell of Pictures for Sad Children auctioned off two of his (her? let's go with their) personal laptops. I bought one of the two, but didn't really spend any time looking through it then because I was in grad school and extremely busy/depressed, and mainly just concerned with helping them pay rent or whatever they needed the money for. I didn't expect it to contain much. Unfortunately right around the time of the whole kickstarter meltdown (mid 2014) was when I was moving a long way from my parents' place, so it sat in storage with them until now. I finally had a chance to look through it and it seems to contain complete archives of the comic, website, a bunch of side projects, pdf versions of both books... plus some personal stuff - photos, music, etc. I regret sitting on this for so long; I was a huge fan of PFSC and I know that a lot of people miss it. At some point however I remember hearing that John didn't want the comics hosted publicly again. I want to respect that wish, but at the same time I can't bear to see this art lost, it was a special brand of dark and weird and I think especially relatable to people with mental health issues. I'm not aware of any other archive, just this old dead effort that was incomplete anyway, and some scattered individual comics hosted various places. I have no idea what to do in this situation. There's 300GB worth of stuff on here, not sure yet how much is worthwhile (for example there are some movies and a lot of uncompressed images) but I'm open to the idea of passing some of the contents around, if we don't think that hosting it publicly is ethical. What do you think?      
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Jan 13, 2017 05:57
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 05:24 |
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PUT IT ONLINE RIGHT NOW YOU edit i mean of course that would be unethical
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Jan 13, 2017 07:16
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Post /acid This is YOSPOS as gently caress
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Jan 13, 2017 07:43
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Ask for their permission? vOv
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Jan 13, 2017 09:21
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Does anyone even know how to get in touch with them anymore? They did a pretty good job of disappearing from the internet. Maybe the guy who finished shipping books for the kickstarter, Max Temkin? I'm not really expecting a different response if I do get in touch, but I guess it's worth a try
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Jan 13, 2017 18:32
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Throw it into the bonfire along with all other vanities you may possess.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jan 13, 2017 |
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Jan 13, 2017 18:51
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Turn it into a memorial wasp nest Or carefully preserve it, make backups, and hope to one day sell it to the John Campbell Museum once it exists. Or upload everything to archive.org. The possibilities are endless!
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Jan 13, 2017 19:18
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Does it have the Long John Silvers comic?
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Jan 13, 2017 19:34
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I would post it. I would say that this story is in effect an extension of the work of the artist, which at this point is essentially performance art. You can enrich the story and further it, in fact, that's a core aspect of the very existence of the laptop and its sale.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:46
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what was the idea behind buying/selling the laptop? like I don't think that buying it implied giving you publication rights to their stuff but they sold you a machine with all their work on it, which you bought because it was theirs, presumably not because you needed a used laptop and they made a better offer than ebay. I'd regard it as pretty much the same as if you bought an out-of-print book
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Jan 13, 2017 19:46
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If someone is braindead enough to not wipe a computer before selling it then it is your god given duty to shame them from sea to plastic-choked sea
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Jan 13, 2017 19:50
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one the one hand it had to have been knowingly shipped without having the drive wiped but i have some serious mixed feelings about rummaging through someone's, uh... ex-belongings??? and reposting their work without permission, i don't know i would do that in your position
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Jan 13, 2017 19:51
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I'd say anything that was once publicly available on the internet is 100% fair game to re-upload.
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Jan 13, 2017 19:53
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elektroboot posted:Does anyone even know how to get in touch with them anymore? They did a pretty good job of disappearing from the internet. Maybe the guy who finished shipping books for the kickstarter, Max Temkin? I'm not really expecting a different response if I do get in touch, but I guess it's worth a try it's me im am your friend jom camble and, i say, it is okay to post! i have been waiting for this day, for a friend to come and to post
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Jan 13, 2017 20:03
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elektroboot posted:I'm open to the idea of passing some of the contents around, if we don't think that hosting it publicly is ethical. What do you think? Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but what you're proposing is illegal unless you have express permission from the creator, so my vote is "noep" unless you get something in writing saying you're good to distribute it. I've seen lawsuits filed for far less significant reasons, and the statute of limitations is three years after you release the works. I really wouldn't want to worry constantly for the next three years that one day I'd get a certified letter in the mail because the creator filed suit. Giggle at the stuff, then wipe the drive and repurpose the machine.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:11
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John Campbell is one of the most amazing artists I've ever seen, and pfsc is a beautiful work of art that I will cherish forever and always. I've had the complete pfsc collection here on a hard drive for a couple years now, she sent them out to people at a certain kickstarter level or something, I can't really remember. As far as what you do with yours, if you give a poo poo about what John Campbell wants, then you would keep it offline and preferably destroy it. If you give a poo poo about what most other people want, then you'd host it online for all to see. I wouldn't worry all that much about being sued by the creator, she is not likely to ever have enough money to sue anyone, or to survive through the next 5 years even.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:18
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If the argument is, 'it's illegal to do it' the counterargument, 'but there's no way they could afford to sue' doesn't feel too good to me personally, on an ethical grounding
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Jan 13, 2017 20:25
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Well it's like a George Lucas kinda thing, where there's no way he should be allowed to make the original cut of the first 3 movies unavailable to everyone forever like he wants. The difference is that George Lucas is a billionaire capitalist douchebag so who cares what he wants, whereas John Campbell is almost certainly going to die in abject poverty because of her tragic and uncontrolled mental illness. There are very few things I feel bad about in this world, but I probably won't ever upload the pfsc archive.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:33
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" plus some personal stuff - photos, music, etc." - This is the bit that concerns me. Regardless of which route you take- backup only the stuff you might upload to a second HDD somewhere, and wipe the laptop. You can spend all day wringing your hands about uploading the comic or whatever, but it sounds like a ton of non related material is on there as well that you frankly have no business rooting around in. Was the laptop even password protected at all? Pull the comic to a secondary source and wipe it.
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Jan 13, 2017 20:47
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:. Giggle at the stuff, then wipe the drive and repurpose the machine. ChairMaster posted:if you give a poo poo about what John Campbell wants, then you would keep it offline and preferably destroy it. Ok wow don't wipe the drive, holy poo poo. If anything make a back up, even if you have no intention of using it, You don't have to share it, ever, but wiping the drive would be an irreversible and senseless act of destruction. I shouldn't have to say that. Preserving even the lowest of culture in as close to its original form as you can is just basic cultural responsibility. That's why a goon restored Manos The Hands of Fate, and video game nerds are working to preserve standard definition CRT technology so the people of the future can see what pixels looked like before we invented straight lines. Even Red Letter Media, who regularly joke about destroying the last remaining copies of terrible VHS tapes with no apparent cultural value or significance on Best of the Worst, have tipped their hand to reveal they keep back-up copies of every tape they destroy. There are countless books, movies, songs, comics, and tv shows that were lost to history because nobody thought to save them, and we mourn them. No matter how low brow they were. We mourn the lost episodes of Dr. Who. We mourn London After Midnight, we mourn Double Exposure, we mourn the lost first operetta of Gilbert & Sullivan. You have no idea what will be important to history. Do not, do not, do not, do not, DO NOT ever destroy the last known copy of an artist's work, holy Mary mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death amen
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Jan 13, 2017 21:03
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It's not like he's got the last remaining archive in the world or something, all the pfsc stuff is still in possession of a lot of people all around the internet aside from myself, and I'm pretty sure people uploaded the archive on 4chan or something as soon as they got it emailed to them back whenever that was.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:20
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ChairMaster posted:It's not like he's got the last remaining archive in the world or something, all the pfsc stuff is still in possession of a lot of people all around the internet aside from myself, and I'm pretty sure people uploaded the archive on 4chan or something as soon as they got it emailed to them back whenever that was. Oh ok, destroy it then.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:32
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I'd be interested in reading the comic again, OP, if you decide to share it somehow.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:50
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Really, if you take the whole cultural responsibility angle seriously (not saying you shouldn't), the best thing to do would be to wait and see if you can somehow get in contact with the person that holds the rights to the material. One little letter saying "yah go for it fam" makes any legal and ethical issues vanish instantly.
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Jan 13, 2017 21:51
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Really, if you take the whole cultural responsibility angle seriously (not saying you shouldn't), the best thing to do would be to wait and see if you can somehow get in contact with the person that holds the rights to the material. One little letter saying "yah go for it fam" makes any legal and ethical issues vanish instantly. the author has repeatedly requested all traces of their existence to be wiped from the internet, including contacting defunct podcasts to take down old interviews and requesting people to petition wikipedia to delate their wiki page
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Jan 13, 2017 21:59
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Really, if you take the whole cultural responsibility angle seriously (not saying you shouldn't), the best thing to do would be to wait and see if you can somehow get in contact with the person that holds the rights to the material. One little letter saying "yah go for it fam" makes any legal and ethical issues vanish instantly. The creator has been explicitly clear that she doesn't want the comics available anywhere on the internet at all, "yah go for it fam" isn't going to be the response the OP gets. Also I don't know if they can even be contacted at this point anyways.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:01
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It is illegal and immoral to rehost someone's work against their very clear wishes. But obviously you want to do it anyway, so just do it if you're willing to deal with the consequences. IIRC other attempts to rehost PFSC have received DMCA takedown notices, so there is someone trying to keep it off the internet.
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Jan 13, 2017 22:45
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post it then post the tard's reactions
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Jan 14, 2017 00:09
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dordreff posted:It is illegal and immoral to rehost someone's work against their very clear wishes. I guess I can see the illegal, but immoral? All I want to do is read a free webcomic for free, which is exactly what I was doing before the author had a mental breakdown and vanished before I could even possibly pay them for their work. Just Offscreen fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jan 14, 2017 |
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Jan 14, 2017 00:10
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Just Offscreen posted:I guess I can see the illegal, but immoral? All I want to do is read a free webcomic for free, which is exactly what I was doing before the author had a mental breakdown and vanished before I could even possibly pay them for their work. Taking someone else's work and using it in a way they expressly do not want it used is not a nice thing to do, even if the author is crazy. It also devalues the work in the unlikely event that Basic Income Please gets some help and decides to start making comics again.
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Jan 14, 2017 00:17
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Morality is not a real thing, it's up to the OP to decide what's right or not. There isn't really any discussion as to whether or not it is ethical, it's pretty clear in the law and what is generally accepted as ethical that there's no real defense for uploading the archive. The fact that the work still exists in many places and is not truly lost is a factor, and now that the OP knows it the ball is really in their court.
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Jan 14, 2017 00:23
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im the morality in webcomics posting
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Jan 14, 2017 00:40
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I'm torn between telling the OP to ignore Campbell's wishes or destroy one of the last traces of the comic.
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Jan 14, 2017 00:56
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super sweet best pal posted:I'm torn between telling the OP to ignore Campbell's wishes or destroy one of the last traces of the comic.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:03
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ahaha brb gonna get on Twitter and instruct everyone who's ever bought a photo from me that my wish as The Artist is that they should destroy it, to drive up the scarcity and value of my personal stash. Cha-ching, bitch!
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Jan 14, 2017 01:13
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Based pure only reading this thread and not knowing anything else about this, the fact that the author is trying to get it taken down from other places is all the answer you need. Keep it for yourself or wipe the drive. Posting it here is not an option.
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Jan 14, 2017 01:43
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