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There's art in 40k, it's just all religious art. Statues of saints that are literally miles tall, glorious catherdrals, etc. The point of reference being the dark ages and, perhaps a glimmer of the Renaissance. The Imperium aren't good guys. As a whole they're as bad as Chaos, and their actions feed it. But they do have heroes. Likewise the Craftworld Eldar and Tau, in different ways. Grim Darkness, Thirsting Gods, etc. Although a lot of that is just the original material being reframed as a brand. Like when you look into psykers being 'sacrificed' to the Emperor, and it turns out they spend years preparing for the level of enlightenment it takes to offer their essence to the Golden Throne through gradual, tranquil meditation, and the ones who don't make it become teachers. No one realizes this because it's forbidden psyker business, of course. The essential thesis of a lot of the material is also actually anachro-primitivism; the Old Ones went tribal and the Craftworld Eldar exist to protect the Exodites who live in tribal communities on maiden worlds. The Space Marines tend to recruit from tribal populations as well, serving as protective gods who ascend the greatest warriors to their ranks. It's one of the many ways the influence of Dune on the original material shows itself. It's weird and crazy; there are diamonds buried in the rough. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 00:28 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 00:22
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Hodgepodge posted:There's art in 40k, it's just all religious art. Statues of saints that are literally miles tall, glorious catherdrals, etc. The point of reference being the dark ages and, perhaps a glimmer of the Renaissance. pretty much. there are no good guys. there are decent enough individuals but even they are monsters in one way or another.
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May 7, 2017 00:45
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There are no good guys because it's a wargame setting, come on now. If humanity gives up its religious superstitions and starts doing science again, then there won't be any more basis for eternal war. Humanity would be insurmountably dominant.
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May 7, 2017 02:03
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Yeah I guess I forget. I'm used to looking at the warhammer universes through pen and paper games.
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May 7, 2017 02:08
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:There are no good guys because it's a wargame setting, come on now. If humanity gives up its religious superstitions and starts doing science again, then there won't be any more basis for eternal war. Humanity would be insurmountably dominant. Nah, you could still have war. It would just be an unremarkable sci-fi war that could just as easily be Star Wars tabletop or something.
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May 7, 2017 05:52
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Hodgepodge posted:Nah, you could still have war. It would just be an unremarkable sci-fi war that could just as easily be Star Wars tabletop or something. Most other races are developmentally stagnant except the Tau, but the Tau don't have the numbers or the speed to dominate the galaxy. A scientifically advanced humanity with weight of numbers would be undefeatable. At that point there aren't any real stakes in conflict, and you suck all the dramatic tension out of the setting.
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May 7, 2017 05:55
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Baloogan posted:theres a great tradition of insane libertarian space crap that gets super short changed in this era of terminal wokeness. but yeah tron guy is a fat old cuck and why o why does anyone care what he has to say tron guy is a convention staple, like asscracks at a magic the gathering tournament this is devastating to the sci fi community
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May 7, 2017 05:58
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Most other races are developmentally stagnant except the Tau, but the Tau don't have the numbers or the speed to dominate the galaxy. A scientifically advanced humanity with weight of numbers would be undefeatable. At that point there aren't any real stakes in conflict, and you suck all the dramatic tension out of the setting. Most other races are so far ahead of humanity technologically that they either use magic technology (Eldar) or technology that is indistinguishable from magic (Necrons). Also the Orks and the Tyranids would still be there.
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May 7, 2017 05:59
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Hodgepodge posted:Most other races are so far ahead of humanity technologically that they either use magic technology (Eldar) or technology that is indistinguishable from magic (Necrons). Also the Orks and the Tyranids would still be there. The only reason irks and tyranids are a threat is because humanity is too ignorant to develop new bio weapons for them. The eldar & necrons are has-been races too and don't really matter anymore. They can't get anymore advanced but the imperium doesn't have too much trouble killing them anyway. Everything in 40k hinges on humanity being ignorant enough to keep feeding chaos, and to fight orks with conventional weapons.
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May 7, 2017 06:05
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I too oppose ...discouraging sexual assault? The gently caress is this guy even on about?
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May 7, 2017 06:15
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The only reason irks and tyranids are a threat is because humanity is too ignorant to develop new bio weapons for them. The eldar & necrons are has-been races too and don't really matter anymore. They can't get anymore advanced but the imperium doesn't have too much trouble killing them anyway. The only evidence that bio-weapons would work on the Orks and Tyranids is Xenology, a one-shot lorebook that is selectively ignored and has already had its conclusion superceded by new material. The Orks are arguably the galaxy's dominant race, and the Tyranids haven't even finished showing up in the galaxy, and fighting each other makes the winner stronger. The Eldar are a dying race, but the Necrons are just waking up. Both have technology that humanity would take millenia to recreate if they started trying. The Necrons tend to make Mechanicus characters question their faith because their technology is so advanced and refined. Also they keep little pieces of their gods locked up in case they need to let them out to kill things.
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May 7, 2017 06:17
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Hodgepodge posted:The only evidence that bio-weapons would work on the Orks and Tyranids is Xenology, a one-shot lorebook that is selectively ignored and has already had its conclusion superceded by new material. The Orks are arguably the galaxy's dominant race, and the Tyranids haven't even finished showing up in the galaxy, and fighting each other makes the winner stronger. And yet you can still beat them with imperial guards on the tabletop. Why are you making so many excuses for 40k? Is it hitting you?
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May 7, 2017 06:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:And yet you can still beat them with imperial guards on the tabletop. Why are you making so many excuses for 40k? Is it hitting you? It turns out that when you converge the beams of lots of flashlights in 40k, the result is like firing the Death Star 
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May 7, 2017 06:28
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The Orks are the heroes of 40k. They are the only race having any fun in the galaxy, and enjoy endless war for endless war's sake. The Tau were also the good guys until they went all mind control with the Ethereals. The Imperial Guard are great solely because they nightmares from beyond space and time with flashlights and still manage to hold the line. They collectively make the Space Marines look stupid and superfluous, which is great because I really hate Space Marines.Hodgepodge posted:There's this series you should check out, you probably haven't heard of it... You have come to a world called Gor *whipcrack*
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May 7, 2017 07:26
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Not a Step posted:The Orks are the heroes of 40k. They are the only race having any fun in the galaxy, and enjoy endless war for endless war's sake. The Tau were also the good guys until they went all mind control with the Ethereals. The Imperial Guard are great solely because they nightmares from beyond space and time with flashlights and still manage to hold the line. They collectively make the Space Marines look stupid and superfluous, which is great because I really hate Space Marines. I liked Space Marines best in early Dark Heresy, as distant legends who might show up from time to time as an awesome event. Conversely, in the Ascension material it gets a little lame because they decided that PCs who aren't Space Marines couldn't be as awesome as they are for some reason. Give them a squad to command or something, guys. Of course, they accidentally made Explorators on par with Space Marines in other material. quote:You have come to a world called Gor *whipcrack* I was referring to ASoIaF, but I guess the old joke about goons always recommending that has kind of aged poorly now that it's a mainstream thing.
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May 7, 2017 07:36
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I ran across some Gor stuff when I was an unsupervised kid on the internet, and, uh, that poo poo has probably wrecked more than a few brains. It was a nice flag for 'this community is insane' though.
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May 7, 2017 07:43
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Not a Step posted:I ran across some Gor stuff when I was an unsupervised kid on the internet, and, uh, that poo poo has probably wrecked more than a few brains. It was a nice flag for 'this community is insane' though. Worst part of Gor is the author isn't just writing his fetish, he's writing what he sees as the best, most natural form of human society possible.
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May 7, 2017 08:04
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I read like the first dozen Gor books at one point and those get real freaky around 7 or 8.
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May 7, 2017 09:48
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Gor could pass as horror for feminists.
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May 7, 2017 11:12
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:There are no good guys because it's a wargame setting, come on now. If humanity gives up its religious superstitions and starts doing science again, then there won't be any more basis for eternal war. Humanity would be insurmountably dominant. Counterpoint: Roko's Basilisk proves that even if humanity did give up religion in favor of science we'd totally end up worshipping something like the emperor or the omnissiah.
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May 7, 2017 12:03
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No mention of Gor is complete without the masterpiece Houseplants of Gor.super sweet best pal posted:Counterpoint: Roko's Basilisk proves that even if humanity did give up religion in favor of science we'd totally end up worshipping something like the emperor or the omnissiah. Roko's Basilisk doesn't really prove anything besides the enduring value of falsifiability and the enduring preference of online "rationalists" for elaborate thought experiments over rationalism. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 12:43 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 12:27
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lol at anyone who thinks that there would be no conflict if we'd just worship science. Like, how strong does your autism have to be to think like this?
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May 7, 2017 14:21
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oliwan posted:lol at anyone who thinks that there would be no conflict if we'd just worship science. Like, how strong does your autism have to be to think like this? "picard > Kirk" lvl autism
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May 7, 2017 14:35
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science is pretty loving terrible but then again my headphones just went through the wash and the dryer and still work so maybe it aint so bad
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May 7, 2017 14:36
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Hodgepodge posted:No mention of Gor is complete without the masterpiece Houseplants of Gor. is the water sex
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May 7, 2017 16:59
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Y'all haven't been keeping up with all the crazy changes in 40k cause the Imperium has changed fairly radically since the fall of Cadia
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May 7, 2017 17:01
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I haven't been keeping up with GW official changes since they destroyed my favorite setting
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May 7, 2017 17:02
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ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:is the water sex 
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May 7, 2017 17:07
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Hodgepodge posted:No mention of Gor is complete without the masterpiece Houseplants of Gor. jesus gently caress. i remember talking to some lady who was into Gor. its loving weird and creepy and all the dudes who are into it look like davis aurini. so whats its deal, from my cusory reasearch it reads like Robert E. Howard/Edgar Rice Burroughs pulp but with really really hosed up sex stuff. Dapper_Swindler has issued a correction as of 17:13 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 17:08
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Venom Snake posted:Y'all haven't been keeping up with all the crazy changes in 40k cause the Imperium has changed fairly radically since the fall of Cadia yeah, it turns out you're completely and utterly hosed and 10,000 years of victories were actually strategic losses you didn't understand, filthy xenos who also just want to not get eaten by daemons look a lot more like friends Dapper_Swindler posted:jesus gently caress. i remember talking to some lady who was into Gor. its loving weird and creepy and all the dudes who are into it look like davis aurini. so whats its deal, from my cusory reasearch it reads like Robert E. Howard/Edgar Rice Burroughs pulp but with really really hosed up sex stuff. it's bdsm fiction written by a tenured philosophy prof who gave us the term 
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May 7, 2017 17:20
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Grondoth posted:I haven't been keeping up with GW official changes since they destroyed my favorite setting most of the changes are really good but if only because they are a breath of fresh air in this stale rear end setting
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May 7, 2017 17:22
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I thought Gor would be like the crazy Boris Vallejo/frank frazetta art on its cover but the actual content is fairly boring and unrad. Just lengthy monologues defending the caste system and rape.
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May 7, 2017 20:19
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I don't want to have any part of a setting where Rowboat Girlyman is walking around being a nerd and not frozen in time a moment from death.
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May 7, 2017 20:23
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Volcott posted:I don't want to have any part of a setting where Rowboat Girlyman is walking around being a nerd and not frozen in time a moment from death.
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May 7, 2017 20:47
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Uncle Wemus posted:I thought Gor would be like the crazy Boris Vallejo/frank frazetta art on its cover but the actual content is fairly boring and unrad. Just lengthy monologues defending the caste system and rape. pretty much. least Heinlein for all his political awfulness can sorta write interesting stuff. one of my favorites of his is the roads must roll, its loving weird and grimdark as gently caress. Dapper_Swindler has issued a correction as of 21:11 on May 7, 2017 |
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May 7, 2017 21:04
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Yeah. I did a bunch of scifi audiobooks when i worked the graveyard shift alone. The John Carter/Tarzan books are ok. Predictable but at least fun in an old tyme way. Conan stuff was more what i thought of when i thought of heavy metal fantasy. Gor just kinda hung around and talked about how good it felt to be locked into a class niche and that people just naturally fell into that. And also rape. Wasn't a whole lot of epic fights against space tigers. Its like he was some kind of avatar of toxic masculinity who went to towns and turned them to his system
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May 9, 2017 01:41
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