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Arc Light posted:But it was probably the only RPG to effectively justify you *and* your companions growing stronger as you progressed through the game, so all is forgiven. Both KOTOR protagonists had a solid reason for quickly getting stronger. I can't remember any plot points for the rest of the party getting stronger; refresh my memory. Was it "something something Wound in the Force"?
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Dec 29, 2017 01:02
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Sax Offender posted:
I took that as Yoda saying something along the lines of "the Jedi as you know them may be gone, but something better than the old order could take their place. But that's no excuse to hide and ignore everything, you need to get out there and try to do some good and help them."
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Dec 29, 2017 04:34
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Sax Offender posted:Both KOTOR protagonists had a solid reason for quickly getting stronger. I can't remember any plot points for the rest of the party getting stronger; refresh my memory. Was it "something something Wound in the Force"? Wound in the Force was the justification for the player character growing in power - you were quite literally sucking the life (and the Force) out of the people you killed. Your companions were psychically linked to you. Even if they were chilling on the ship while you were out kicking rear end, they still got some of that sweet Force mojo. It also messed with their own free will - party members felt obligated to follow along with your course of action, even if it was something that they would otherwise find repulsive. Pacifist-leaning companions would comment in bewilderment about how natural killing felt when they were around you. I thought they did a pretty neat job justifying the standard RPG mechanics of leveling and party loyalty within the framework of Star Wars.
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Dec 29, 2017 08:39
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Diarrhea Elemental posted:It would've been a better payoff to actually learn that he was this ultimate badass Sith Lord, like finish melting Palpatine with his pinkie finger level of powers. Then he gets ganked with a loving force trick by this whiny manchild he's been puppet-mastering. It's not that Snookie went out like a bitch, it's that everybody's just wondering where the gently caress he came from and who the gently caress he was. Who cares? Vader is the only Sith who ever got a backstory, and it was trash. Leaving it in mystery is a pillar of Star Wars.
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Jan 1, 2018 18:39
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Godholio posted:Who cares? Vader is the only Sith who ever got a backstory, and it was trash. Leaving it in mystery is a pillar of Star Wars. >starts compiling EU Wikipedia articles in a huff
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Jan 1, 2018 18:40
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I'm sure they'll make the Teen Palpatine movie eventually
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Jan 1, 2018 18:50
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The adventures of Sheev Palpatine.
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Jan 1, 2018 18:51
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:The adventures of Sheev Palpatine. lmao every time I remember palps name is actually Sheev
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Jan 1, 2018 18:53
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I'm down with Sheevy P.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:07
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Godholio posted:Who cares? Vader is the only Sith who ever got a backstory, and it was trash. Leaving it in mystery is a pillar of Star Wars. Yeah, it's not like they completely set up the character in the first movie for payoffs we never got or that his actions/powers are internally inconsistent across the two movies. It's totally cool with me that the guy who apparently singlehandedly resurrected the empire and constructed a planetary sized weapon couldn't envision or predict his own death, mid-trilogy, in the cheesiest possible manner with a lightsaber he conveniently placed right next to him. Seconds after showing his ability to read minds. We shouldn't have any issue with this at all.
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Jan 1, 2018 19:41
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The Shep posted:Yeah, it's not like they completely set up the character in the first movie for payoffs we never got or that his actions/powers are internally inconsistent across the two movies. It's totally cool with me that the guy who apparently singlehandedly resurrected the empire and constructed a planetary sized weapon couldn't envision or predict his own death, mid-trilogy, in the cheesiest possible manner with a lightsaber he conveniently placed right next to him. Seconds after showing his ability to read minds. ___________/ 
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Jan 1, 2018 19:48
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ONE oval office WOLF PACK posted:___________/ Cut him some slack he’s just mad Finn didn’t die.
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Jan 1, 2018 20:00
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Not an argument.
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Jan 1, 2018 21:26
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lol I liked Finns character, (he’s got the most compelling story arc in TFA) but he probably should have died kamakazing that battering ram in TLJ since that would have been the one useful thing he got to do in the whole movie 🤷🏻♂️
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Jan 1, 2018 21:31
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Cut him some slack he’s just mad Finn didn’t die. HAha gently caress
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Jan 1, 2018 21:54
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The Shep posted:Yeah, it's not like they completely set up the character in the first movie for payoffs we never got or that his actions/powers are internally inconsistent across the two movies. It's totally cool with me that the guy who apparently singlehandedly resurrected the empire and constructed a planetary sized weapon couldn't envision or predict his own death, mid-trilogy, in the cheesiest possible manner with a lightsaber he conveniently placed right next to him. Seconds after showing his ability to read minds. While I share a sense of disappointment that Snoke wasn't fleshed out (  ), the way he died wasn't so bad. Like Sheevy Baby, his weakness was his hubris. Palpatine said Vader could never be turned and was practically a slave to his will, and got tossed down a hole by a guy he should have been able to electrocute if he had noticed his feelings for his son. Snoke thought he had complete control of Kylo, who managed to mask his thoughts with very careful control. I took Snoke's dialogue to be what he was getting from Kylo. E.g., "He turns it to his true enemy" or something like that was how Kylo was obfuscating his intent.I think the difference between the two are 1) Sheev's death was the climax of a trilogy and all of the plot and character delivery rate that accompanied it and 2) there was some foreshadowing of his blind spot both by Luke ("Your overconfidence is your weakness") and in a prior scene where Palpatine could not sense Luke while Vader could, demonstrating a blind spot in his self-supposed omniscience. ONE oval office WOLF PACK posted:lol Finn's got a good overall arc, but it wasn't served all that well in this movie. That, and the way the writers keep giving him detailed technical knowledge that's hard to believe for a janitor takes me out of the story for a second. Think about it: Finn knows all about the Starkiller Base shield system, the hyperspace tracking system, the "miniaturized Death Star" battering ram. If they wanted him to always know First Order tactics and secret tech, they shouldn't have made him as a lowly janitor.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:11
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People didn't know poo poo about Palpatine until the prequels, can we chill about Snoke?
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Jan 1, 2018 22:13
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Sax Offender posted:Snoke thought he had complete control of Kylo, who managed to mask his thoughts with very careful control. Kylo was never really shown as a character with strong amounts of self control or deep introspection. He's often shown having physically violent outbursts. This is made worse by the fact that there's really no (or very little) passage of time between the two movies which steals more from Kylos arc where be could've been shown here as someone who did complete his training and was humbled by his defeat at the hands of rey. I actually disagree that Finn should've sacrificed himself. He should've been captured which could've been a callback to what happened to Solo at the end of Empire. But like all other plot points, anything interesting or that could be built off of in ep 9 was wiped away. And the comparisons of the emperor to Snoke are not warranted. The emperor was a background item in the original trilogy, whereas Snoke was prominently featured in TFA. Also, the OT doesn't allow room to question the empire since the story starts from that point, but in TFA and TLJ we are correct to question Snoke and the prominence of the first order simply because we've seen the empire defeated in the previous movies. If the new movies existed in a vacuum, sure, but there's history to the universe they built that we somehow shouldn't be questioning I guess. The Shep fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 22:38
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According to Rian Johnson, none of the loose ends in TFA (what we assumed were setting things up for Eps 8 & 9) actually had any defined plans at the time. He had to figure out what to do with all of it.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:42
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Godholio posted:According to Rian Johnson, none of the loose ends in TFA (what we assumed were setting things up for Eps 8 & 9) actually had any defined plans at the time. He had to figure out what to do with all of it. I wish he figured something out other than 1) kill 2) ignore 3) downplay.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:44
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The Shep posted:Kylo was never really shown as a character with strong amounts of self control He's shown and stated to be very powerful, but raw. That Snoke was caught blind could be attributed to his overconfidence and his (and our) underestimation of what Kylo is capable of. That he threw a couple of tantrums during the week or so he was pursuing Rey doesn't preclude any and all discipline. After all, he's also shown to do some impressive feats like freezing blaster bolts and extracting information from minds. I mean, Vader would get pissed, yell, and/or choke a bitch, but he was still in control of his powers. My lack of satisfaction with Snoke's death is not how it happened, but when (i.e., while we were still waiting for further characterization). quote:And the comparisons of the emperor to Snoke are not warranted. The emperor was a background item in the original trilogy, whereas Snoke was prominently featured in TFA. What was Snoke other than an Emperor analogue? Hell, half of reviewers can't help but call him "the Emperor" and the First Order "the Empire". He needed more to differentiate himself before they killed him off. Understand, I agree that they goofed on Snoke. They featured him prominently from the start, and that deserves a more fully-realized character even more than Sheev needed it going into ROTJ. But I don't agree that the Emperor didn't feature prominently in the plot of the duology of ESB and ROTJ. I think its fair to look at those two separately some of the time, since they were written that way. ANH was a standalone film that became a phenomenon. The bigger plots (total victory of the Rebellion, Vader's redemption, Han/Leia, etc.) really only spanned those two. So Sheev may not have been a big personal factor in most of the OT, but he was the personification of the Empire, an omnipresent entity. The Vader redemption plot really only spans the latter two movies, except for a passing comment by Obiwan that only factored in retrospect. The Emperor is shows to be the power behind his corrupt nature in ESB and Ian McDiarmid gives us everything we need to understand his place in the saga in ROTJ.  quote:Also, the OT doesn't allow room to question the empire since the story starts from that point, but in TFA and TLJ we are correct to question Snoke and the prominence of the first order simply because we've seen the empire defeated in the previous movies. If the new movies existed in a vacuum, sure, but there's history to the universe they built that we somehow shouldn't be questioning I guess. That's a fair criticism that most of us share. What's kind of mind-boggling is that the writers of TFA were obviously aware of that weakness. Han alludes to the fact that they've been down this road before ("How do we blow it up? There's always a way to do that."). No one's arguing that The First Order isn't a rehash of the Empire that was just defeated thirty years or so prior. Likewise, the "New Republic" died in a much less impressive way (plot-wise) than the Republic that had died twenty years before that. It's not very satisfactory from a mythos perspective, but I guess they do show The First Order's triumph over the Republic. The First Order wiped out the New Republic in TFA, which I guess didn't have a military since instantly the three ships of Resistance Fighters are the only opposition they have. Not great story-telling based on the history we know from the original trilogy. Even the ragtag rebels managed to muster a fleet that could hold off the bulk of the Imperial Navy long enough to win the Battle of Endor. A government ruling at least a decent chunk of the galaxy doesn't have a navy? Obviously, the First Order has some kind of connection to the Empire. Their navy and army are essentially the same (Star Destroyers, Tie Fighters, Stormtroopers, AT-ATs, etc.). So the threat was always there, as opposed to a pacified galaxy with little need for armed forces. I guess they could say that only a fraction of the galaxy was ever liberated before the remnants of the Empire were consolidated into the First Order, explaining the extremely limited resources of the Republic, but they haven't done that. The Shep posted:I wish he figured something out other than 1) kill 2) ignore 3) downplay.  Bringing in the New Year talkin' Star Wars on the internet. That's one resolution that went down in record time.
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Jan 2, 2018 01:23
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Sax Offender posted:Bringing in the New Year talkin' Star Wars on the internet. That's one resolution that went down in record time.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:18
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The Shep posted:I wish he figured something out other than 1) kill 2) ignore 3) downplay. It's just really sloppy writing covered up with explosions. Too many movies are doing this now and it's getting old.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:12
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ONE oval office WOLF PACK posted:lmao every time I remember palps name is actually Sheev I'm pretty sure even the name Palpatine was EU nonsense until the prequels. In the OT he was just the emperor.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:54
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"Palpatine" was in the novelization of the both first Star Wars movie and ROTJ, and even back then he was a Senator who rose to power on the promise of restoring the Republic to glory. It's kind of like "Ewoks", "Wicket", "AT-AT", or even "Lord of the Sith"*. Fans knew the terms, and they popped up in books, games, toys, trading cards, etc. before the EU was a thing. According to wikipedia, "Sheev" was added in 2014. Since I grew up with the original movies and early video games and only ever read the original Thrawn trilogy, I can usually distinguish whether something preceded the EU. Still, the easiest way is that if it's completely retarded, it's from the EU. *Back in the day, "Lord of the Sith" was only attributed to Darth Vader. We all assumed it was a title unique to him. The Emperor was never "Darth" anything, even in those first books and games. Most of us assumed it was some special group or philosophy of the Dark Side of which Vader was the head. Comparable to Kylo and the Knights of Ren--no evidence that Snoke was a member. Edit: Looking through GIS at old trading cards brought me to even more evidence that Mark Hamill is a treasure: 
Sax Offender fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 22:51
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Sax Offender posted:"Palpatine" was in the novelization of the both first Star Wars movie and ROTJ, and even back then he was a Senator who rose to power on the promise of restoring the Republic to glory. It's kind of like "Ewoks", "Wicket", "AT-AT", or even "Lord of the Sith"*. Fans knew the terms, and they popped up in books, games, toys, trading cards, etc. before the EU was a thing. This, with the added extra that in 1977, it was implied the Emperor was still supposed to be a figurehead isolated by Machiavellian bureaucrats.
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Jan 2, 2018 23:40
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Godholio posted:According to Rian Johnson, none of the loose ends in TFA (what we assumed were setting things up for Eps 8 & 9) actually had any defined plans at the time. He had to figure out what to do with all of it. its still pretty clear the general ideas they had where those could go and the writers did the exact opposite
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Jan 3, 2018 00:24
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He was the writer (sole credit) and he disagrees with you.  Maybe the TFA team just forgot to hand in the notes.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:07
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You just don't understand Rians vision, man.
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Jan 3, 2018 03:25
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Whatever they would have come up with for who Snoke is and who Rey's parents are would never have lived up for how hyped up they were, with a mix of "of COURSE Luke is Rey's dad" thrown in, so I'm happy TLJ just said gently caress your theories, we're doing our own thing, and I think it's better for it. I was legitimately surprised they killed Snoke that early, which was great, anything else would have been "oh, that's the twist they contrived up".
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Jan 3, 2018 04:08
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Not everything needs to be explained. Some things are better left as-is. Remember: midichlorians.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:13
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I need to go re-watch TFA and double check this, but (despite the probably incredibly unreliable narrator) didn't Rey have some memory of her being dropped off with King Turd on Jakku and her crying out for (presumably) her parents dipping out in a ship? Could be nothing, especially with the whole lack of continuity plan from 7 to 8, but that still bugs me.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:23
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Yeah, during the flashback sequence when she touched Luke's lightsaber at the new cantina.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:41
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So, turns out the porgs weren't planned. They were added to the script because the island Luke's hideaway was filmed on has a large population of protected puffins, and it would have been a pain in the rear end to completely digitally remove them. http://www.starwars.com/news/designing-star-wars-the-last-jedi-part-1-how-porgs-were-hatched Diarrhea Elemental posted:I need to go re-watch TFA and double check this, but (despite the probably incredibly unreliable narrator) didn't Rey have some memory of her being dropped off with King Turd on Jakku and her crying out for (presumably) her parents dipping out in a ship? Could be nothing, especially with the whole lack of continuity plan from 7 to 8, but that still bugs me. Yep. That turned up in one of her visions. I think it was when she first touched Luke's old lightsaber in the basement of the cantina. e:f;b
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Jan 3, 2018 04:43
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The Shep posted:You just don't understand Rians vision, man. 
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Jan 3, 2018 06:03
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Sax Offender posted:Edit: Looking through GIS at old trading cards brought me to even more evidence that Mark Hamill is a treasure:    
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Jan 3, 2018 07:38
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Holy poo poo. They're all great, but that last one...  Btw, he's still doing Trump tweets from time to time.
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Jan 3, 2018 19:48
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