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Typo posted:From what I understand TR's progrevism has being greatly overstated That was basically what "progressivism" meant in that time period. A strong nationalist state that tamps down on the excesses of the oligarchs, without giving too much power to the working class. It was largely a compromise ideology between socialists (who were largely fresh off the boat European immigrants) and the more conservative old money (who were largely yankee bluebloods) Essentially the progressivism of Roosevelt was State Capitalism in it's purest form, he'd probably like the modern PRC, if only it was more environmentally friendly. He also was a huge jingo, having made his bones in the Spanish/American War. Later he helped bring America into WW1. A descision he would later regret when his youngest son, Quentin was killed in action. He never got over it and would live the rest of his life in a state of depression, much like the rest of us lmao
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Jan 12, 2018 03:16
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Dreddout posted:Essentially the progressivism of Roosevelt was State Capitalism in it's purest form, he'd probably like the modern PRC, if only it was more environmentally friendly. So there were a lot of state owned companies?
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Jan 12, 2018 03:19
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punk rebel ecks posted:So there were a lot of state owned companies? No, but I have a feeling that was the ideal they we're working towards. The ideology was influenced heavily by Henry George, with an ideal placed on equitable land management. Like the National Parks Service, which was created as a guarantee to conserve and manage state wildlands that the Federal government wasn't intending to privatize. You have to take into account this was in response to The Gilded Age, where the rapidly industrializing American economy was dominated by massive natural resource and railroad monopolies. Like typo said, the assumption was that corporations would remain massive, (which wasn't wrong) so you had to bring them under the heel of the federal government. Teddy campaigned on busting trusts, that is, breaking up monopolies. Which he largely succeeded at, given the fact that the anti-trust laws are still in affect today. Much Ado was made about "nationalism" which in this context meant the Federal Government as the representative of The Nation should be the ultimate director of how the economy is run and governed. It was a very corporatist view of prosperity. However the Progressive Coalition and the Republican Party grew steadily more conservative after Teddy, and further implementation of these ideals never solidified. By the end of WW1 the coalition was largely dead, finding it's successor in FDR's Democratic party.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:42
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And of course, it goes without saying that a lot of the good ideas came from people to the left of the progressives. The Sewer Socialists of the Midwest had a huge impact on the era, and inarguably forced progressives further left
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Jan 12, 2018 03:46
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i guess that's also why Wilson called his progressive platform "New Nationalism." learning a lot itt
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Jan 12, 2018 04:10
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get that OUT of my face posted:i guess that's also why Wilson called his progressive platform "New Nationalism." learning a lot itt That's exactly it yeah One early alternative to capitalism called itself "nationalism" and posited a society where the Nation functioned as the sole capitalist, wherein all the citizens of said nation would work directly for the government. The idea being that a nation would logically work towards prosperity for all it's citizens rather than a few capitalists. It never really took off outside of a few isolated communes, but you can see how it might have influenced the wider progressive movement.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:19
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Dreddout posted:That's exactly it yeah 
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Jan 12, 2018 04:31
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Dreddout posted:That's exactly it yeah 
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Jan 12, 2018 04:33
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get that OUT of my face posted:i guess that's also why Wilson called his progressive platform "New Nationalism." learning a lot itt it also had a fair amount to do with his support for the klan, and his hope to reforge the multi-ethnic US into a single anglo culture. quote:"Any man who carries a hyphen about with him, [ie, German-American] carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic whenever he gets ready." especially during the WWI period, there was a crackdown on non-anglo white populations, especially german populations. people were forced to change their names to avoid harassment. sauerkraut became liberty cabbage.
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Jan 12, 2018 05:23
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GoluboiOgon posted:especially during the WWI period, there was a crackdown on non-anglo white populations, especially german populations. people were forced to change their names to avoid harassment. sauerkraut became liberty cabbage. 
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Jan 12, 2018 05:38
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As a European it's interesting to read how current US politics came to be. Here in the EU (maube except fot he UK) we don't learn a lot about the detailed Anglo-Saxon history, unless you pick a specialised education. We just learn about the European colonisation of America. About slave labour, racial segregation and the current political system. This makes the American way of life quite hard to understand for a lot of Europeans.
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Jan 12, 2018 09:12
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most europeans already live an american way of life, but with healthcare
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Jan 12, 2018 09:20
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rudatron posted:most europeans already live an american way of life, but with healthcare I think the difference is much broader. Also social security is not the same as free or cheap health care. We have social security. I don't want to derail the thread discussing this though.
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Jan 12, 2018 09:50
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Strom Thurmond is the only president that me and Joe Biden celebrate. Maybe he was the only president ever.
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Jan 12, 2018 11:04
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Dreddout posted:And of course, it goes without saying that a lot of the good ideas came from people to the left of the progressives. The Sewer Socialists of the Midwest had a huge impact on the era, and inarguably forced progressives further left I'm fascinated, what the hell is a sewer socialist "we all float the same down here"
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Jan 13, 2018 00:28
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MrOzzy posted:As a European it's interesting to read how current US politics came to be. Here in the EU (maube except fot he UK) we don't learn a lot about the detailed Anglo-Saxon history, unless you pick a specialised education. Study the civil war and its causes and effects and you know everything about past, present, and future america.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:45
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm fascinated, what the hell is a sewer socialist In specific, it was a term of derision for the group of Democratic Socialists who governed the city of Milwaukee for the first half of the 20th century. (1910-1960). Ironically this term came from the revolutionary left, who weren't satisfied with their perception, that the reformist Milwaukee Socialists were too busy resting on the laurals of their excellent sewage system. Back in the day, sewage and waste disposal in America was privatized. This was awful for many reasons, but primarily, uncoordinated sewer systems could and would be easily be miss managed by private companies. (Lmao Flint) The sewer socialists get their name from their socialization of the sewer and garbage systems at the municipal level. This mainly happened in the Rust Belt, where the socialist and trade unionist movement was at it's strongest in America. Later, Progressive Democrats would co-opt this idea and spread it around the country. (This wouldn't stop the Milwaukee Democrats from working with the Republicans, by not running and backing the Republican candidate, in a successful effort to depose the then socialist mayor of Milwaukee) So if you have tap water free of lead in America, you ultimately have the sewer socialists to thank for that. I should let you know, I learned a lot about the Sewer Socialists from Matt Christman's Solo Episode of Chapo Trap House "Sewer Surfin'". Even if you aren't a fan of the show, I suggest you check it out if you're interested. It's not particularly jokey or vulgar, and it's only 40 minutes long. However it's a premium episode, so you might need to 'acquire' it from some third party if you aren't a subscriber.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:11
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Eugene Debs was the best President btw. His electoral loss was when the timeline diverged into hellworld
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Jan 13, 2018 02:14
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Dreddout posted:
Yeah basically the Republicans had a progressive wing and a conservative wing, the conservative wing won the internal party struggle after the 1910s (and the progressives defected to the 1912 bull moose ticket) and harding-coolidge-hoover trio mostly governed as pro-business laissez-faire republicans until 1929 Typo has issued a correction as of 22:31 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 22:23
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Typo posted:Yeah basically the Republicans had a progressive wing and a conservative wing, the conservative wing won the internal party struggle after the 1910s (and the progressives defected to the 1912 bull moose ticket) and harding-coolidge-hoover trio mostly governed as pro-business laissez-faire republicans until 1929 The same thing happened to the Dems, roughly concurrently, but in reverse. The progressive wing of the Dems were mainly localized in the North, with the conservative Dixiecrats in the South. Eventually the progressive faction overtook the conservative faction, even today there are still isolated remnants of the Dixiecrats in the South. The same isn't really true of the Progressive Republicans, they were basically extinct by the 50's
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Jan 14, 2018 22:08
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