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The Lobster
Sep 3, 2011

Massive
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There's a lot of crap getting put on Stream 1 though. All those IWBTG clones for instance. Nobody wants to sit through a three hour block of that. So Stream 2 is great because you can put on Puyo Puyo or Sherlock Holmes or just something far less offensive/stupid when you've literally just run Celeste on the first stream to show what those games could freaking be if they had an ounce of effort put into them. Honestly there are a lot of games I think should just be banned not only from ESA but from marathons in general and IWBTG clones are one of them. Also maybe card and fighting games, those didn't go over well as far as I saw. And all this crap was on Stream 1. Stream 2 had some really great content, a lot of times it was hard to choose.

But for the love of God, put them side by side in the schedule, instead of making us scroll up and down and up and down and up and down... UGH. That was SO annoying.

Anyway, my opinion on the stream thing.

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Kikas
Oct 30, 2012

Having a normal one

AGDQ 2018 Awful Block Survivor

I agree with the side-by -side thing in the schedule, but even more, find a place in the overlay to show what's happening on the other stream. I also like having 2 streams to choose from for my speedrunning needs.

TeaJay
Oct 9, 2012


Okay, from what I saw live, have to catch some VODs still:

Stream 1

- Hollow Knight - good tech and commentary and some nice cosplay too
- Tony Hawk's American wasteland - even if you're not familiar with TH games this is a real fun run with a good banter going on
- El Matador - bouncing through the scenery
- Geoguessr - How on earth can they run Geoguessr?? Watch and find out, an awesome run
- Silent Hill 3 - Despite the game working against him, Punchy pulls through, some great goon donations as well
- Bionic Commando Rearmed - Had a dev both playing and commenting the run
- Battletoads - TMR gets crowned the king of speedruns and pulls off the impossible
- Arabian Nights - Watch the Kotti run from AGDQ 2018 first and then this one. It's great
- Celeste - Punchy with a real impressive run here with great commentary
- Batman: The video game - How close can a race get?
- Super Mario 64 relay race - It's chaos, it's fun, it's one of the best runs of the event
- Star Wars Jedi Academy - High-speed action, action, action
- Hitman: Blood money - To quote Kotti: "It's fun when things go wrong"
- Awful games relay - the way awful games are meant to be played

Stream 2

- Dog's Life - live routing
- Pingu - GOODPLAY
- Wild Animal Racing - this a thing you should see
- LA Noire - The glorious trainwreck
- The Useful Dead - Kenny shows off a game with an interesting death abuse mechanic

TeaJay fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Jul 29, 2018

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


I liked having two streams, it meant that at any given moment it was more likely that at least one of them would be running something I was interested in. I especially appreciated that they avoided having super-long RPG runs on both streams at once.


TeaJay posted:

Okay, from what I saw live, have to catch some VODs still:

Solid choices, and I'd add:
- Deus Ex, which shows off some incredible glitching and skips entire levels
- Super Mario 64 70 star/140 runner relay race, which is incredible as an event if you have no interest in SM64 as a game
- Hitman: Blood Money, which demonstrates that the game's definition of "silent assassin" is quite open to abuse
- and the Dark Souls Remastered any% race, which goes through multiple reversals as the game clearly hates whoever is in the lead the most and remains anyone's race right up to the end, despite initial appearances

I think the Dark Souls 2 Reverse Boss Order run is a bit overlong, but it's worth watching the first 10 minutes or so just to see how the first boss is, in fact, the physics engine. And I still need to catch the Horizon Zero Dawn and Okami VODs.

Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010



The Lobster posted:

There's a lot of crap getting put on Stream 1 though. All those IWBTG clones for instance. Nobody wants to sit through a three hour block of that. So Stream 2 is great because you can put on Puyo Puyo or Sherlock Holmes or just something far less offensive/stupid when you've literally just run Celeste on the first stream to show what those games could freaking be if they had an ounce of effort put into them. Honestly there are a lot of games I think should just be banned not only from ESA but from marathons in general and IWBTG clones are one of them. Also maybe card and fighting games, those didn't go over well as far as I saw. And all this crap was on Stream 1. Stream 2 had some really great content, a lot of times it was hard to choose.

But for the love of God, put them side by side in the schedule, instead of making us scroll up and down and up and down and up and down... UGH. That was SO annoying.

Anyway, my opinion on the stream thing.

I’m glad you’re not in charge because I thought those IWBTG games were an interesting watch.

For me the second stream is good because I ended up having to watch most of the event on vod. I can see how it would be more difficult if you’re trying to watch live, never knowing which stream is about to get really good, but as long as they have willing runners then I say go for it. They could probably stand to explore the two stream setup a bit more though.

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.
my problem with it from a runner perspective is that the split of the attention for it is like 90/10 between stream 1 and stream 2 and I don't really feel like the event is big enough to justify splitting itself like that and stream 2 is small enough such that putting well practiced commentary on it feels like a waste of potential.

It's alright if I wanted to run some shitpost jank or something. But I'm usually too serious for me to ever consider the stream 2 environment as suitable for me. So I just avoid it.

From an event perspective, I don't see how it can be helped since there's no incentive for stream 1 to plug stream 2. It's weird for a stream to advertise turning itself off to a different one?

From the extremely opportunistic perspective, I do generally do runs at these events with the intent showing my poo poo off to a lot of people, but retention rates from these events are low as balls (I've ran the numbers it's consistently like 0.5% for me) which means a decent performance on stream 2 will net one like, 10 residual followers. Yawn. It's really not worth putting actual time and effort into runs that go on that one since the return is so low? Going to these events isn't like, cheap so I gotta think about that sort of thing? I'd only really consider it if it was a run I didn't have to really think about too hard or just wanted to shitpost in speed form. I had a year where I only had runs on stream 2 and it was bluntly an abject waste of time and I'd never consider repeating it. It's not worth the travel cost.

I'm sure some of this outs me as opportunistic and probably a bit egotistical and selfish but whatever y'all already knew that poo poo. So that's how I feel about it all. Stream 1 or death. Unless I'm not even trying, but then when I am ever not trying?

DizzyBum
Apr 16, 2007


In my opinion Stream 2 is good and harmless and a great way to fit in more runs and runners. I hope they keep doing it!

I also agree that occasionally plugging the other stream in the current stream would be good.

CrashCat
Jan 10, 2003

another shit post


I always check stream 2 first because I like lesser known runs and want to see what my options are. If there was no stream 2 I wouldn't have got to see some poor fellow constantly fail at Golden Egg Sandwiches RNG while the entire room cheered every time the title screen reappeared because he had to reset. That guy's run was obviously not marathon safe but people were laughing and enjoying it.

Punchy's right, I'm sure that guy didn't get a ton of follows, but that guy would have got nothing otherwise. As long as they respect the runners and make sure they don't put anyone on stream 2 who would rather not bother, I don't see a problem with it. Many of my favorite ESA memories are from 2 and I'm sad when it's offline. So if there is anything I'd pass to the organizers is that I enjoy it and I appreciate the extra effort even if many don't.

I totally get why GDQ does not have a second stream, they have developed a lot of surrounding content and support for each run now and it would simply be impossible to deliver that level of service on a second stream. It would obviously be instantly labeled "pleb stream" and generate nothing but complaints and twitch chat fuckery.

There's a world of differences in audience, tone, scope, and more between the two marathons and it only gets more pronounced every year. I don't think that is a bad thing, actually I have preferred it that way from the start. I doubt that I am alone on this.

CrashCat fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jul 29, 2018

CrashCat
Jan 10, 2003

another shit post


KennyMan666 posted:


And about the threads - while the chat thread certainly saw more activity than past ESA threads, it wasn't even anywhere remotely near the pace of posting that made splitting up the GDQ threads a good idea. I definitely would like to see it get popular enough for that - but I think it's pretty clear that for the time being, we don't need two ESA threads. Even for me who only checked in like 2-3 times a day from the event itself, having my netbook in my hotel room the whole time, I could easily follow all the posts. ESA Winter 2019, being an even smaller event, absolutely won't need a separate chat thread, and I have my doubts that ESA Summer 2019 will need it too. So I'd like to keep being the one to make the marathon threads, because it's something I've done for so many years now, have poured a lot of effort into and really want to continue carrying.

And just to be even more contrarian I hate live chat TV IV style threads and every time I brought up my bookmarks there were like 300 new posts so I didn't open it. Today if I open it up to a random page I get some page full of posts that make no sense because I have no context and everyone was live posting. They're useless to anyone who isn't hanging out in that thread live at the time the thing is happening. But if you don't want to deal with it that's fine with me, you know I have several other places to talk about it at my own pace. :geno:

CrashCat fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 29, 2018

TeaJay
Oct 9, 2012


CrashCat posted:

And just to be even more contrarian I hate live chat TV IV style threads and every time I brought up my bookmarks there were like 300 new posts so I didn't open it. Today if I open it up to a random page I get some page full of posts that make no sense because I have no context and everyone was live posting. They're useless to anyone who isn't hanging out in that thread live at the time the thing is happening. But if you don't want to deal with it that's fine with me, you know I have several other places to talk about it at my own pace. :geno:

That's precisely why we have had 2 threads for GDQ's lately. One for reaction chat posting and one for questions, recommendations etc. that would otherwise be lost in the chaos. We are just saying that for ESA the amount of posts is still fairly moderate that we will all probably fit in the same thread.

RearmingStrafbomber
Jan 29, 2009

1-1-2029, tonight the stars are shining bright
Pinball Done Quick was GDQ's second stream, and I for one loved it. All my donations went through Joe. Second streams are great escape plans when there's a five hour JRPG on the main.

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.

TeaJay posted:

That's precisely why we have had 2 threads for GDQ's lately. One for reaction chat posting and one for questions, recommendations etc. that would otherwise be lost in the chaos. We are just saying that for ESA the amount of posts is still fairly moderate that we will all probably fit in the same thread.

Nah, I think the chat threads are cliquey and memey enough that having a "real" thread that people who haven't been speedposting can actually enter and see what's going on is still useful.

e: Maybe not cliquey, but requires a lot of thread knowledge for it to make sense, I guess?

For an example of what I mean, I clicked a random page number and got 142, which admittedly seems particularly egregious compared to the pages either side. Aside from the one post about gen 4, it could be about any game with a pikachu. I enjoy the threads, but they can be a bit opaque.

Unreal_One fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 30, 2018

CrashCat
Jan 10, 2003

another shit post


TeaJay posted:

That's precisely why we have had 2 threads for GDQ's lately. One for reaction chat posting and one for questions, recommendations etc. that would otherwise be lost in the chaos. We are just saying that for ESA the amount of posts is still fairly moderate that we will all probably fit in the same thread.
I don't think they fit together but it's also clearly not worth the extra effort since we only made it to page two here. :shrug:

KennyMan666
May 27, 2010

The Saga

Okay there's recommendations now

I'll ask to have this unstickied tomorrow and then give it a day or two before closing it.

CrashCat
Jan 10, 2003

another shit post


do we still have a general speedrunning thread? seem to have lost my bookmark or it's died

Healbot
Jul 7, 2006

very very very fucjable
very vywr very


The thread is saving frames in hell now

Corek
May 11, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Prop Wash posted:

I’m glad you’re not in charge because I thought those IWBTG games were an interesting watch.

Same here. I think Boshy looks fine, although I haven't played it. I don't get the hate for those games, especially since there's always been one in most GDQs.

Corek fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Aug 1, 2018

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.
i like to think Celeste made people realise what an actually good game of that style looks like

Minera
Sep 26, 2007

All your friends and foes,
they thought they knew ya,
but look who's in your heart now.
I've never been a fan of "blocks" like mega man block or sonic block or whatever else, unless you're a super huge fan of that series it's hard to sit and watch like 3 or 4 hours of the same games in a row.

Somehow I'm also a big fan of super long RPGs though, so I'm glad we got to do something like the split FF9 run, with half on the main stream and the other half on stream 2.

So for both of those reasons I'm glad of stream 2 to break up monotony, and I spent more time checking stream 2 this year than I did at past ESAs. To echo what others said, I don't see the problem with it as long as someone's getting use out of it, and nobody feels like they're being banished to it.

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Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010



I suppose we’ll be seeing the schedule for the Movember event sometime today?

https://esamarathon.com/news/1d138bcb-20f5-4366-a84c-3bba0fee11c2

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